2nd Sun 3/80 waking up another beauty

hi fellows,

got an other sun 3/80 in a very fine condition. no scratches, no broken parts.
and the best, it´s equipped with a cg6 framebuffer ^^

after cleaning the psu with compressed air, i connected the serial port a with
my PehCeh running teraterm. even after 20 minutes of running i dont get ANY
letters on the terminal.

jumpers for the serial ports are in rs-232 possition, so that can´t by the
problem. i also tried a type 4 keyboard with a 13w3 monitor. same result here
:-( even stop + n does not help.

is there anybody who has an idea how to get this machine working again?

with best regards,

david

p.s. die obp chip is labeled 525-1041-05, where can i find more information
about this?

David Reichelt <Freud-> writes:

>got an other sun 3/80 in a very fine condition. no scratches, no broken parts.
>and the best, it´s equipped with a cg6 framebuffer ^^

>after cleaning the psu with compressed air, i connected the serial port a with
>my PehCeh running teraterm. even after 20 minutes of running i dont get ANY
>letters on the terminal.

Do you have a Sun keyboard connected to it?

It's likely that the NVRAM chip has lost its juice; but I'm not sure what
the consequences of that are; what's the system doign when you turn it on?

(I had one 3/80 as my desktop many years ago)

Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.

Casper H.S. Dik schrieb:
> David Reichelt <Freud-> writes:
>
>> got an other sun 3/80 in a very fine condition. no scratches, no broken parts.
>> and the best, it´s equipped with a cg6 framebuffer ^^
>
>> after cleaning the psu with compressed air, i connected the serial port a with
>> my PehCeh running teraterm. even after 20 minutes of running i dont get ANY
>> letters on the terminal.
>
> Do you have a Sun keyboard connected to it?
>
> It's likely that the NVRAM chip has lost its juice; but I'm not sure what
> the consequences of that are; what's the system doign when you turn it on?
>
> (I had one 3/80 as my desktop many years ago)
>
> Casper


Hi Casper,

I tried with and without keyboard(type 4 and 5). afaik, a Sun workstation
powered up without keyboard goes to diag mod on ttya, right?

You are right, the nvram is dead, but even with a dead nvram it ~should~ boot to
the obp, at least to show me that the ethernet adress (mac) is set to FF:FF:FF:FF.

If I turn the system on, the psu fan starts and a red light in the psu lights
up. If a keyboard is connected, I hear a beep.

Is this beep just a keyboard check or the first step of a diag mod?

Kind regards,

David

David Reichelt <Freud-> writes:

>I tried with and without keyboard(type 4 and 5). afaik, a Sun workstation
>powered up without keyboard goes to diag mod on ttya, right?

If you don't connect a keyboard, it should talk to ttya.

You could try start the system and use L1-N (Stop-N); use the Stop/L1
key as you would a shift/control key.

>You are right, the nvram is dead, but even with a dead nvram it ~should~ boot to
>the obp, at least to show me that the ethernet adress (mac) is set to FF:FF:FF:FF.

>If I turn the system on, the psu fan starts and a red light in the psu lights
>up. If a keyboard is connected, I hear a beep.

>Is this beep just a keyboard check or the first step of a diag mod?


That's a long time ao; I don't really know; I seem to remember that if
something was wrong, it would display a code in the leds on the keyboard.

Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.

David Reichelt <Freud-> wrote:

> after cleaning the psu with compressed air, i connected the serial port a with
> my PehCeh running teraterm. even after 20 minutes of running i dont get ANY
> letters on the terminal.

Du you have a proper serial cable, ie. one which supports hardware
handshake?
>
> jumpers for the serial ports are in rs-232 possition, so that can´t by the
> problem.

Which jumpers, and in what position exactly?
Have you pulled the graphics card?

> i also tried a type 4 keyboard with a 13w3 monitor. same result here
> :-( even stop + n does not help.

IIRC, Stop-N doesn't do anything useful on a Sun3/xx.
You may want to check out
<http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/Sun3/CPU_01_Sun-PROM-Monitor>
or, even better, Document 800-5027 if you can still find it somewhere.

> is there anybody who has an idea how to get this machine working again?

Firstly: Use a proper serial cable. If you don't have one, make at least
sure that it does at least loopback or partial handshaking.
Secondly: Pull the framebuffer.

If it still doesn't work: Come back.

> p.s. die obp chip is labeled 525-1041-05, where can i find more information
> about this?

That's Boot PROM revision 3.0. You should consider upgrading to 3.0.3.


Martin
--
"For the Snark's a peculiar creature, that won't
Be caught in a commonplace way.
Do all that you know, and try all that you don't;
Not a chance must be wasted to-day!"

Martin Etteldorf schrieb:
> David Reichelt <Freud-> wrote:
>
>> after cleaning the psu with compressed air, i connected the serial port a with
>> my PehCeh running teraterm. even after 20 minutes of running i dont get ANY
>> letters on the terminal.
>
> Du you have a proper serial cable, ie. one which supports hardware
> handshake?

The wiring looks like

D-SUB9 D-SUB25
Ground Ground
1 8
2 2
3 3
4 6
5 7
6 20
7 5
8 4
9 22

I tested the cable just minutes ago with my other sun 3/80. It runs fine. Is my
wiring also right in your eyes?

>> jumpers for the serial ports are in rs-232 possition, so that can´t by the
>> problem.
>
> Which jumpers, and in what position exactly?
> Have you pulled the graphics card?

j043 1-2
j044 1-2
j045 2-3
j020 20mhz
j1000 open

Framebuffer is not longer in the box, i had to remove it to check all jumper.

>
>> i also tried a type 4 keyboard with a 13w3 monitor. same result here
>> :-( even stop + n does not help.
>
> IIRC, Stop-N doesn't do anything useful on a Sun3/xx.
> You may want to check out
>
<http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/Sun3/CPU_01_Sun-PROM-Monitor>
> or, even better, Document 800-5027 if you can still find it somewhere.

I have a collection of documentation. I will search for it
>
>> is there anybody who has an idea how to get this machine working again?
>
> Firstly: Use a proper serial cable. If you don't have one, make at least
> sure that it does at least loopback or partial handshaking.
> Secondly: Pull the framebuffer.

done

> If it still doesn't work: Come back.
>
>> p.s. die obp chip is labeled 525-1041-05, where can i find more information
>> about this?
>
> That's Boot PROM revision 3.0. You should consider upgrading to 3.0.3.

I would love to, but the mainboard is 08rev50, so if we can believe Heiko Krupp
(http://www.sun3arc.org/hardpatches/3...80tuning.phtml) I need to
upgrade to 12rev50 first. Can you confirm that information?

On 2008-11-21, Casper H.S Dik <> wrote:
> David Reichelt <Freud-> writes:
>
>>I tried with and without keyboard(type 4 and 5). afaik, a Sun workstation
>>powered up without keyboard goes to diag mod on ttya, right?
>
> If you don't connect a keyboard, it should talk to ttya.
>
> You could try start the system and use L1-N (Stop-N); use the Stop/L1
> key as you would a shift/control key.
>
>>You are right, the nvram is dead, but even with a dead nvram it ~should~ boot to
>>the obp, at least to show me that the ethernet adress (mac) is set to FF:FF:FF:FF.
>
>>If I turn the system on, the psu fan starts and a red light in the psu lights
>>up. If a keyboard is connected, I hear a beep.
>
>>Is this beep just a keyboard check or the first step of a diag mod?
>
>
> That's a long time ao; I don't really know; I seem to remember that if
> something was wrong, it would display a code in the leds on the keyboard.

And the Sun-3 systems tended to not have the OBP, but rather a
simpler bit of firmware, which had as the entire prompt a '> ' instead
of "ok ".

The hostid in the NVRAM should start with 4200 (with four more
characters which are the serial number).

If the start of the hostid is wrong, the system won't know where
to look for various I/O devices and such. So -- you need to start with
42, and probably set the "00" to something like "03" so it won't match
any issued hostid. Yes, the number should be 525-1031-01 according to
my very old FEH.

I think that the 3/80 did not understand the L1-A (STOP-A) key
sequence during boot.

To examine or change a parameter in the NVRAM, you had to use a
'q' command followed by the hex address, and type in the new value
followed by a <CR> to change the value. To exit this mode you type a
space followed by a <CR>, or a '.' and <CR>

Beware possible typos in the following.

The addresses for the parameters were:

0x14 The amount of installed memory (in hex)

0x15 The amount of memory to test at boot (in hex)

0x16 Monitor screen size
00 1152x900
12 1024x1024
13 1600x1280
14 1440x1440
15 1024x768

0x17 Watchdog reset action
00 Watchdog reset returns to PROM monitor
12 Watchdog reset causes a Power On Reset (default)

0x18 Operating system boot device
00 Polls devices (default)
12 uses EEPROM/NVRAM specified device

0x19 - 0x1a SunOs boot device (in ASCII)
xy 78 79 id 69 64
xd 78 64 gn 67 6e
sd 73 64 le 6c 65
ie 69 65

0x1b, 0x1c, 0x1d (controller, unit, partition)
00 00 00 (default)

0x1f Primary terminal
00 Monochrome frame buffer
10 Serial port A
11 Serial port B
12 VMEbus and Sun 3/60 P4 colro frame buffers
(configure locations 0x60c - 0x613 when VX and
MVX graphics options are installed)
20 P4 color frame buffer

0x20 Poser-up banner
00 Sun Banner
12 Custom Banner

0x21 Keyboard click
00 click is OFF
12 Click is ON (Default)

0x22 - 0x23 Diagnostic boot device in ASCII
(same as 0x19 to save my typing)

0x24, 0x25, 0x26 (controller unit partition)
00 00 00 (default)

0x28 - 0x4f (diagnostic boot path)
40 bytes in ASCII for path

0x50 (Hi Res # columns
50 80 columns
78 120 columns

0x51 Hi Res # Rows
22 34 rows
30 48 rows

0x58 Serial port A Default Baud Rate
00 uses 9600 baud
12 uses EEPROM/NVRAM defined baud rate

0x59 - 0x5a Serial Port A baud rate
1200 baud 04 b0
4800 baud 12 c0
9600 haud 25 80

0x5b Serial port A DTR/RTS
00 Asserts DTR and RTS signals
12 Does not assert above

0x60 Serial port B default baud rate
00 uses 9600 baud
12 uses EEPROM/NVRAM defined baud rate

In the diag position, port B is set to outptu at 1200
baud. The setting of location 0x60 - 0x62 is ignored

0x61 - 0x62 Serial port B baud rates (as above in 0x59 - 0x5a

0x63 Serial prot B DTR/RTS

as in 0x5b above

[ skip over 386i only values ]

0x18f Logo Type
00 Sun
06 3D for CG6
12 Custom


0x492 Password Mode Select
5E fully secure mode
01 Command Secure mode
All else -- non-secure mode

0x493 - 0x49a Password bytes

0x60c VX & MVX options boot code

0x610 - 0x613 VX & MVX options bus tyep

0x70b Sun 3/80 power-on mode
06 normal boot
12 diagnostic mode
All else -- full diagnostic boot

The Open PROM started with the 4/25 apparently.

Since the locations for the HostID and the MAC address are not
shown here, you'll have to dig through one of the sites dedicated to
recovering such data.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: <> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols schrieb:
> On 2008-11-21, Casper H.S Dik <> wrote:
>> David Reichelt <Freud-> writes:
>>
>>> I tried with and without keyboard(type 4 and 5). afaik, a Sun workstation
>>> powered up without keyboard goes to diag mod on ttya, right?
>> If you don't connect a keyboard, it should talk to ttya.
>>
>> You could try start the system and use L1-N (Stop-N); use the Stop/L1
>> key as you would a shift/control key.
>>
>>> You are right, the nvram is dead, but even with a dead nvram it ~should~ boot to
>>> the obp, at least to show me that the ethernet adress (mac) is set to FF:FF:FF:FF.
>>> If I turn the system on, the psu fan starts and a red light in the psu lights
>>> up. If a keyboard is connected, I hear a beep.
>>> Is this beep just a keyboard check or the first step of a diag mod?
>>
>> That's a long time ao; I don't really know; I seem to remember that if
>> something was wrong, it would display a code in the leds on the keyboard.
>
> And the Sun-3 systems tended to not have the OBP, but rather a
> simpler bit of firmware, which had as the entire prompt a '> ' instead
> of "ok ".

Of course, you are right. I think OBP started with the Sun4 series.

> The hostid in the NVRAM should start with 4200 (with four more
> characters which are the serial number).
>
> If the start of the hostid is wrong, the system won't know where
> to look for various I/O devices and such. So -- you need to start with
> 42, and probably set the "00" to something like "03" so it won't match
> any issued hostid. Yes, the number should be 525-1031-01 according to
> my very old FEH.

If the hostid is wrong(e.g. because the nvram is dead), will the system start up
anyway? Or do i have the program the nvram in an other 3/80?

> I think that the 3/80 did not understand the L1-A (STOP-A) key
> sequence during boot.
>

Now I know, that you right again with this point.

> To examine or change a parameter in the NVRAM, you had to use a
> 'q' command followed by the hex address, and type in the new value
> followed by a <CR> to change the value. To exit this mode you type a
> space followed by a <CR>, or a '.' and <CR>
>
> Beware possible typos in the following.
>
> The addresses for the parameters were:
>
> 0x14 The amount of installed memory (in hex)
>
> 0x15 The amount of memory to test at boot (in hex)
>
> 0x16 Monitor screen size
> 00 1152x900
> 12 1024x1024
> 13 1600x1280
> 14 1440x1440
> 15 1024x768
>
> 0x17 Watchdog reset action
> 00 Watchdog reset returns to PROM monitor
> 12 Watchdog reset causes a Power On Reset (default)
>
> 0x18 Operating system boot device
> 00 Polls devices (default)
> 12 uses EEPROM/NVRAM specified device
>
> 0x19 - 0x1a SunOs boot device (in ASCII)
> xy 78 79 id 69 64
> xd 78 64 gn 67 6e
> sd 73 64 le 6c 65
> ie 69 65
>
> 0x1b, 0x1c, 0x1d (controller, unit, partition)
> 00 00 00 (default)
>
> 0x1f Primary terminal
> 00 Monochrome frame buffer
> 10 Serial port A
> 11 Serial port B
> 12 VMEbus and Sun 3/60 P4 colro frame buffers
> (configure locations 0x60c - 0x613 when VX and
> MVX graphics options are installed)
> 20 P4 color frame buffer
>
> 0x20 Poser-up banner
> 00 Sun Banner
> 12 Custom Banner
>
> 0x21 Keyboard click
> 00 click is OFF
> 12 Click is ON (Default)
>
> 0x22 - 0x23 Diagnostic boot device in ASCII
> (same as 0x19 to save my typing)
>
> 0x24, 0x25, 0x26 (controller unit partition)
> 00 00 00 (default)
>
> 0x28 - 0x4f (diagnostic boot path)
> 40 bytes in ASCII for path
>
> 0x50 (Hi Res # columns
> 50 80 columns
> 78 120 columns
>
> 0x51 Hi Res # Rows
> 22 34 rows
> 30 48 rows
>
> 0x58 Serial port A Default Baud Rate
> 00 uses 9600 baud
> 12 uses EEPROM/NVRAM defined baud rate
>
> 0x59 - 0x5a Serial Port A baud rate
> 1200 baud 04 b0
> 4800 baud 12 c0
> 9600 haud 25 80
>
> 0x5b Serial port A DTR/RTS
> 00 Asserts DTR and RTS signals
> 12 Does not assert above
>
> 0x60 Serial port B default baud rate
> 00 uses 9600 baud
> 12 uses EEPROM/NVRAM defined baud rate
>
> In the diag position, port B is set to outptu at 1200
> baud. The setting of location 0x60 - 0x62 is ignored
>
> 0x61 - 0x62 Serial port B baud rates (as above in 0x59 - 0x5a
>
> 0x63 Serial prot B DTR/RTS
>
> as in 0x5b above
>
> [ skip over 386i only values ]
>
> 0x18f Logo Type
> 00 Sun
> 06 3D for CG6
> 12 Custom
>
>
> 0x492 Password Mode Select
> 5E fully secure mode
> 01 Command Secure mode
> All else -- non-secure mode
>
> 0x493 - 0x49a Password bytes
>
> 0x60c VX & MVX options boot code
>
> 0x610 - 0x613 VX & MVX options bus tyep
>
> 0x70b Sun 3/80 power-on mode
> 06 normal boot
> 12 diagnostic mode
> All else -- full diagnostic boot
>
> The Open PROM started with the 4/25 apparently.
>
> Since the locations for the HostID and the MAC address are not
> shown here, you'll have to dig through one of the sites dedicated to
> recovering such data.

At the monent i get any response from the system, the information above will to
prove itself more valuable then gold(or oil ;-), but i still have no response
from the box at all.

>
> Good Luck,
> DoN.
>

Thx DoN, i will stay on mission :-)

David Reichelt <Freud-> writes:
> after cleaning the psu with compressed air, i connected the serial port a
> with my PehCeh running teraterm. even after 20 minutes of running i dont
> get ANY letters on the terminal.

Your PeeCee/teraterm is configured for 9600, even parity, and for hardware
flow control, I hope? If you still get nothing, try switching your serial
cable from straight-through to crossover, or vice versa.
-WBE

I never had a 3/80, but IIRC the 3/60 had a few LEDs next to the diag
switch on the back which would tell you a little about startup failures.