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A 300-Watt USB plug?

 
 
Yousuf Khan
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      10-08-2010, 05:01 PM
After Intel's nearly killed USB 3.0 in favour of its sciene project,
LightPeak, it looks like it's now going the other way with suggestions
for new features for USB 3.0+. It's considering making increasing amount
of power USB ports are able to deliver, by both increasing voltage and
amperage. This one seems like an immediatel useful science project.

Yousuf Khan

***

SemiAccurate :: Intel is considering some tweaks to the USB standard
"USB devices are going to need to be able to deliver more power, a lot
more power in fact and it looks like Intel wants to implement support
for up to 42V at 1.8A for a total peak power draw of 35W. However, this
appears to be just a first step with the presentation mentioning "future
expansion to 200-300W using new connectors". Now that might seem a
little bit excessive, but it would allow you to plug in just about
anything to a USB port and it would be able to either be powered by it
or charged by it. However, Intel also wants USB to be able to deliver
less than 5V, something that some devices require and canít have today."
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/10/...-usb-standard/
 
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Rod Speed
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      10-08-2010, 06:34 PM
Yousuf Khan wrote:
> After Intel's nearly killed USB 3.0 in favour of its sciene project,
> LightPeak, it looks like it's now going the other way with suggestions
> for new features for USB 3.0+. It's considering making increasing
> amount of power USB ports are able to deliver, by both increasing
> voltage and amperage. This one seems like an immediatel useful
> science project.
> Yousuf Khan
>
> ***
>
> SemiAccurate :: Intel is considering some tweaks to the USB standard
> "USB devices are going to need to be able to deliver more power, a lot
> more power in fact and it looks like Intel wants to implement support
> for up to 42V at 1.8A for a total peak power draw of 35W. However,
> this appears to be just a first step with the presentation mentioning
> "future expansion to 200-300W using new connectors". Now that might
> seem a little bit excessive, but it would allow you to plug in just
> about anything to a USB port and it would be able to either be
> powered by it or charged by it.


Wont handle my microwave or my welder either.

Wont even handle the fan heater either.

> However, Intel also wants USB to be able to deliver less than 5V, something that some devices require and canít have
> today."
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/10/...-usb-standard/



 
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Intel
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      10-08-2010, 11:54 PM
Yousuf Khan wrote:

> Intel is considering some tweaks to the USB standard "USB devices
> are going to need to be able to deliver more power, a lot
> more power in fact. However, this appears to be just a first
> step with the presentation mentioning "future expansion to 200-
> 300W using new connectors".


Finally - The USB-powered toaster has arrived!

What's next?

Maybe Intel wants me to be able to recharge my electric car from a USB
port?
 
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krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
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      10-09-2010, 12:47 AM
On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:54:46 -0400, Intel <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
>> Intel is considering some tweaks to the USB standard "USB devices
>> are going to need to be able to deliver more power, a lot
>> more power in fact. However, this appears to be just a first
>> step with the presentation mentioning "future expansion to 200-
>> 300W using new connectors".

>
>Finally - The USB-powered toaster has arrived!
>
>What's next?
>
>Maybe Intel wants me to be able to recharge my electric car from a USB
>port?


On your laptop? Hey, you could plug the laptop into the cigarette lighter!
 
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Robert Redelmeier
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      10-09-2010, 02:34 AM
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (E-Mail Removed)zzzzzzzz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:54:46 -0400, Intel <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>Yousuf Khan wrote:
>>> Intel is considering some tweaks to the USB standard
>>> "USB devices are going to need to be able to deliver more
>>> power, a lot more power in fact. However, this appears
>>> to be just a first step with the presentation mentioning
>>> "future expansion to 200- 300W using new connectors".

>>
>>Finally - The USB-powered toaster has arrived! >>What's next?
>>Maybe Intel wants me to be able to recharge my electric
>>car from a USB port?

>
> On your laptop? Hey, you could plug the laptop into the
> cigarette lighter!



Ha.Ha More seriously, what V * A this is going to be
and how it will ever stay under the NEC low-voltage Class2
(30Vrms or 60Vdc, 100VA)?

Is Intel going to go with 60 Vdc @ 5A and try to get waivers
with GFIC balancing & fast overcurrent trips? That'll take
at least 2*18 AWG, not the nice flexible 24 AWG . Or are
they thinking something even nuttier, like 300Vdc @ 1A to
keep wiresize down?. What protections will convince NFPA & UL ?


-- Robert



 
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krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
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      10-09-2010, 02:49 AM
On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 02:34:34 +0000 (UTC), Robert Redelmeier
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (E-Mail Removed)zzzzzzzz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
>> On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 19:54:46 -0400, Intel <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>Yousuf Khan wrote:
>>>> Intel is considering some tweaks to the USB standard
>>>> "USB devices are going to need to be able to deliver more
>>>> power, a lot more power in fact. However, this appears
>>>> to be just a first step with the presentation mentioning
>>>> "future expansion to 200- 300W using new connectors".
>>>
>>>Finally - The USB-powered toaster has arrived! >>What's next?
>>>Maybe Intel wants me to be able to recharge my electric
>>>car from a USB port?

>>
>> On your laptop? Hey, you could plug the laptop into the
>> cigarette lighter!

>
>
>Ha.Ha More seriously, what V * A this is going to be
>and how it will ever stay under the NEC low-voltage Class2
>(30Vrms or 60Vdc, 100VA)?
>
>Is Intel going to go with 60 Vdc @ 5A and try to get waivers
>with GFIC balancing & fast overcurrent trips? That'll take
>at least 2*18 AWG, not the nice flexible 24 AWG . Or are
>they thinking something even nuttier, like 300Vdc @ 1A to
>keep wiresize down?. What protections will convince NFPA & UL ?


I was wondering the same thing. ...and why would I need so much power. It's
*got* to be expensive. The whole idea of USB is that it's cheaper than dirt.
 
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Robert Redelmeier
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      10-09-2010, 11:59 AM
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (E-Mail Removed)zzzzzzzz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
> On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 02:34:34 +0000 (UTC), Robert Redelmeier
>>Ha.Ha More seriously, what V * A this is going to be
>>and how it will ever stay under the NEC low-voltage Class2
>>(30Vrms or 60Vdc, 100VA)?
>>
>>Is Intel going to go with 60 Vdc @ 5A and try to get waivers
>>with GFIC balancing & fast overcurrent trips? That'll take
>>at least 2*18 AWG, not the nice flexible 24 AWG . Or are
>>they thinking something even nuttier, like 300Vdc @ 1A to
>>keep wiresize down?. What protections will convince NFPA & UL ?

>
> I was wondering the same thing. ...and why would I need
> so much power. It's *got* to be expensive. The whole idea
> of USB is that it's cheaper than dirt.


I can see why the power -- getting rid of not-dirt-cheap wallwarts.
How is a lot trickier. But I can see ways since actives
(semiconductor logic) are also cheaper than dirt. Maybe even
get around the hiV arc-flash.

-- Robert
 
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Tom Lake
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      10-09-2010, 01:07 PM

> Wont handle my microwave or my welder either.
>
> Wont even handle the fan heater either.


If my car's battery goes dead, maybe I can start my car with it?

Tom L
 
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daytripper
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      10-09-2010, 03:06 PM
On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 11:59:53 +0000 (UTC), Robert Redelmeier
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (E-Mail Removed)zzzzzzzz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
>> On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 02:34:34 +0000 (UTC), Robert Redelmeier
>>>Ha.Ha More seriously, what V * A this is going to be
>>>and how it will ever stay under the NEC low-voltage Class2
>>>(30Vrms or 60Vdc, 100VA)?
>>>
>>>Is Intel going to go with 60 Vdc @ 5A and try to get waivers
>>>with GFIC balancing & fast overcurrent trips? That'll take
>>>at least 2*18 AWG, not the nice flexible 24 AWG . Or are
>>>they thinking something even nuttier, like 300Vdc @ 1A to
>>>keep wiresize down?. What protections will convince NFPA & UL ?

>>
>> I was wondering the same thing. ...and why would I need
>> so much power. It's *got* to be expensive. The whole idea
>> of USB is that it's cheaper than dirt.

>
>I can see why the power -- getting rid of not-dirt-cheap wallwarts.
>How is a lot trickier. But I can see ways since actives
>(semiconductor logic) are also cheaper than dirt. Maybe even
>get around the hiV arc-flash.
>
>-- Robert


Actually, wallwarts *are* dirt cheap.

But, more to the point, when have you ever even heard of a "300 watt
wallwart"? Or anything even close to that capacity?

I'd guess 99.very_large_integer% of the wallwarts *ever sold* - at least in
the Reality I inhabit - are under 24 watts capacity...

/daytripper
 
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krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-09-2010, 03:57 PM
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 11:06:00 -0400, daytripper <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 11:59:53 +0000 (UTC), Robert Redelmeier
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips (E-Mail Removed)zzzzzzzz <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
>>> On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 02:34:34 +0000 (UTC), Robert Redelmeier
>>>>Ha.Ha More seriously, what V * A this is going to be
>>>>and how it will ever stay under the NEC low-voltage Class2
>>>>(30Vrms or 60Vdc, 100VA)?
>>>>
>>>>Is Intel going to go with 60 Vdc @ 5A and try to get waivers
>>>>with GFIC balancing & fast overcurrent trips? That'll take
>>>>at least 2*18 AWG, not the nice flexible 24 AWG . Or are
>>>>they thinking something even nuttier, like 300Vdc @ 1A to
>>>>keep wiresize down?. What protections will convince NFPA & UL ?
>>>
>>> I was wondering the same thing. ...and why would I need
>>> so much power. It's *got* to be expensive. The whole idea
>>> of USB is that it's cheaper than dirt.

>>
>>I can see why the power -- getting rid of not-dirt-cheap wallwarts.
>>How is a lot trickier. But I can see ways since actives
>>(semiconductor logic) are also cheaper than dirt. Maybe even
>>get around the hiV arc-flash.


100VA is enough for that, IMO.

>Actually, wallwarts *are* dirt cheap.


Cheap but not *dirt* cheap. We're paying about $5 each for 10W WWs in
five-thousand lots. Even putting a zero or two behind the quantity doesn't
get them down too much further.

>But, more to the point, when have you ever even heard of a "300 watt
>wallwart"? Or anything even close to that capacity?


Laser printer? ;-)

>I'd guess 99.very_large_integer% of the wallwarts *ever sold* - at least in
>the Reality I inhabit - are under 24 watts capacity...


Probably a lot less than that. Most go for things like mice and maybe USB
disk drives. My scanner has a big one, 36W.

Another problem I see is hubs. Are they all going to supply 300W? ...or does
the wiring (and planning) just get that much more complicated.
 
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