7 Questions To Ask A Laptop Salesman

BillW50 () wrote:

> Richard Bonner wrote on Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:39:43 +0000 (UTC):
> > *** Microsoft in
> > the past has been guilty of bullying competitors out of the market, and
> > guilty of putting things into their products to mess up other operating
> > systems. I would prefer real and honest competition.

> That is because the competitors has done it to Microsoft. So are you the
> type who believes people and companies has no right to defend
> themselves?

*** Not at all, but when defense turns to outright offense at the
expense of competition and the consumer, then I don't agree.


> Also zillions of companies owes their very existence to what
> Microsoft has created. And if MS didn't battle it out with IBM, we all
> would be using IBM made computers and running IBM made software. And
> there would be nobody else around except perhaps Apple.

*** You can't predict that. However, since IBM was not the only game
before, I can't see it being the only game in your scenario.


> Well Apple would
> be gone too since Microsoft gave Apple money to stay in business, but
> you know IBM wouldn't do that for Apple.

*** Microsoft *had* to do that. If they hadn't, they would have been
broken up, as was ATT, because of anti-monopoly laws.


> So how many other competitors
> do you know that will give you money to stay in business? Nowadays Bill
> Gates is giving billions of dollars away to help people.
> --
> Bill

*** You mean just like the crime boss gives candy to all the
neighbourhood kids? Of course, the money to buy that candy was extorted
from their parents.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

BillW50 () wrote:
(Re: WordPerfect "Reveal Codes")
> You needed this feature in WP because WP automatically
> put in hidden codes while you were typing. Hard to figure out when you
> delete something that all of the sudden the formatting also went to hell as
> well. That is until you reveal WP hidden mess of things and then learned
> why.

*** ??? If you have "Reveal Codes" off and try to delete a hidden code,
a warning comes up and asks if you wish to do so.

I have never had formatting problems in WordPerfect save once when I
did not know about headers or footers (or some similar thing) and could
not understand what had happened.


> I'm sorry, but WYSIWYG is far more user friendly and why WP making life
> very difficult had to go.
> --
> Bill

*** You must be thinking of versions previous to WP 6.0. Even so, I
still often use WP 5.1 when I want fast and dirty documents typed up.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

John Doue () wrote:
(Re: WordPerfect)
> - ...learning how to use WP up to version 5.1 (the best ever)
> was challenging at the beginning because of those short cuts (which did
> not change much up to version 5.1). I know, I was an instructor for some
> time of 5.1. So the learning curve was a little intimidating at first,
> but once the initial fears went away, people loved the cleanliness of WP
> and it power. That was lost after 5.1, no denying.

*** I like it because I don't have to use (*&)@##% toolbars that make me
keep having to remove my hands from what I am typing to reach for a desk
rodent to click some little picture at the top of the screen.


> I believe that companies which behave a minimum of honesty, respect and
> dignity stand a better chance, if they are expertly managed, to survive
> than predators.
> --
> John Doue

*** Not unless the predators are taken down. The honest and ethical can
never compete with the dishonest and unethical unless they have more money
and resources.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

BillW50 () wrote:
> If there is a market for non-Microsoft machines,
> there would be a market for them. But the truth is, most consumers want
> Windows and that is the way it is. Those wanting something else is
> interesting, but not profitable.
>
> Bill

*** If that is the case, then why did people ever by WIndows when it
was not the dominant operating system? The fact is that most stores sell
*only* Windows machines now and the public knows little else. That
appears to be less so in Europe, and I hope that attitude comes to Canada
soon because I am tired of no choice at the retail end. Staples here tried
it when they sold Linux distros for a while, but Microsoft soon quashed
that. )-:

Richard

AJL () wrote:
> For the average user like me who keeps the same laptop/desktop for
> several years I think the OEM version is the better choice. Not only
> is it much cheaper but by the time the laptop needs updating with a
> newer version so does the OS.

*** But neither the laptop nor the operating system would even need
updating if the idea of add-ons was employed as it is with browsers.

I use DOS for that very reason. My systems are 8 - 10 years old yet run
the latest software because they can. One can run 1980s software on 2008
DOS, and 2008 software on 1991 (and sometime earlier) DOS versions. I
got off the never-ending upgrade treadmill in 1999 and dumped Windoze for
good.


> If the OEM version could be transferred it would no longer be cheap.

*** It would if there was competition. Windows is expensive because
consumers have no choice when they go into the store. On a level playing
field, if all computers were priced separately with no subsidies, and the
operating systems priced separately, the sticker price on Windows would
have to drop.


> You can avoid Windows altogether. There are several alternative OS's
> that will do almost anything Windows will do. I have one such Linux
> laptop. It is definitely more difficult in many respects but still is
> quite useable. Being a small netbook it is a great traveler...

*** The problem is that not all software is available for all
operating systems and neither are stand-alone laptops - at least not here.
I go into stores and PCs *only* come with Windows.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

BillW50 () wrote:
> AJL typed on Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:18:35 -0700:
> > John Doue <> wrote:
> >
> > The OEM Windows (that is locked to the machine it comes in) is much
> > cheaper than the stand alone Windows version.

> About 4 to 5 times cheaper. So you would have to buy 4 to 5 machines just to
> pay for one retail copy of Windows.
> --
> Bill

*** It only appears that way because some of the cost is built into the
machines.

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

John Doue () wrote:
> ...you seem to be comfortable with the situation as it is,
> I am not. MS does not come anymore with good and innovative products
> (look at the failure of Vista which sells only because MS says it will
> discontinue support for XP, and not for its own merits, and Word 2007)
> and when it tries to venture out of its usual turf, it gets dismal
> results (communications, security, search, Internet). Buying others
> ideas does not seem to work anymore.

> But of course, there is little I can do about this situation except
> refuse to jump in the band wagon!
> --
> John Doue

*** I guess, John, you and I will be some of the band wagon viewers as
it rolls by. (-:

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

John Doue () wrote:
> This NG seems to be dying slowly ...
> --
> John Doue

*** Might it be because too many users bought Vista? (-:

Richard Bonner
http://www.chebucto.ca/~ak621/DOS/

In news:gjh58o$5dp$,
Richard Bonner typed on Thu, 1 Jan 2009 01:11:52 +0000 (UTC):
> BillW50 () wrote:
>> AJL typed on Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:18:35 -0700:
>>> John Doue <> wrote:
>>>
>>> The OEM Windows (that is locked to the machine it comes in) is much
>>> cheaper than the stand alone Windows version.
>
>> About 4 to 5 times cheaper. So you would have to buy 4 to 5 machines
>> just to pay for one retail copy of Windows.
>> --
>> Bill
>
> *** It only appears that way because some of the cost is built into
> the machines.

The price of OEM Windows is well known. It is 40 bucks per unit for high
volume purchases.

--
Bill
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux

In news:gjh54o$5dp$,
Richard Bonner typed on Thu, 1 Jan 2009 01:09:44 +0000 (UTC):
> AJL () wrote:
>> For the average user like me who keeps the same laptop/desktop for
>> several years I think the OEM version is the better choice. Not only
>> is it much cheaper but by the time the laptop needs updating with a
>> newer version so does the OS.
>
> *** But neither the laptop nor the operating system would even need
> updating if the idea of add-ons was employed as it is with browsers.

Only true if you use OS like CP/M, GEOS or DOS. As these OS doesn't sport
any security features.

> I use DOS for that very reason. My systems are 8 - 10 years old yet
> run the latest software because they can. One can run 1980s software
> on 2008 DOS, and 2008 software on 1991 (and sometime earlier) DOS
> versions. I got off the never-ending upgrade treadmill in 1999 and dumped
> Windoze for good.

As much as I *love* DOS, it just can't handle the tasks I need to do.

>> If the OEM version could be transferred it would no longer be cheap.
>
> *** It would if there was competition. Windows is expensive because
> consumers have no choice when they go into the store. On a level
> playing field, if all computers were priced separately with no
> subsidies, and the operating systems priced separately, the sticker
> price on Windows would have to drop.

Nonsense! CP/M price was $250 while MS-DOS costs 30 bucks. Nowadays OEM
Windows of Windows costs 40 bucks and you get both Windows and DOS. Which is
a hell of a deal if you ask me.

>> You can avoid Windows altogether. There are several alternative OS's
>> that will do almost anything Windows will do. I have one such Linux
>> laptop. It is definitely more difficult in many respects but still is
>> quite useable. Being a small netbook it is a great traveler...
>
> *** The problem is that not all software is available for all
> operating systems and neither are stand-alone laptops - at least not
> here. I go into stores and PCs *only* come with Windows.

I have just the opposite problem. I want Windows and virtually all I can
find for my models is just Linux installed. Yuck! Finding OEM version of
Windows installed on EeePC 700 series are much harder to find.

--
Bill
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux