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That all-copper Thermalright heatsink

 
 
Howard
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      11-22-2008, 01:54 PM
>4 lbs. of copper in this thing, at > 100US$. No comments at hardocp
on whether it ships with a convex base.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...W50aHVzaWFzdA=

Is copper easier to lap than the (nickel and copper?) in the
Thermalright Ultra 120 "Convex Edition"?
 
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Fishface
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      11-22-2008, 10:26 PM
Howard wrote:

> Is copper easier to lap than the (nickel and copper?) in the
> Thermalright Ultra 120 "Convex Edition"?


Oh, do you mean that sheet of nickel plated copper that they
put between the actual heat sink base and the CPU? Maybe
it's not really convex but just not flat against the heatsink base.
Maybe the spring pressure presses it flat and lapping it makes
it concave under pressure. Or not.


 
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Howard
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      11-23-2008, 01:44 PM
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:26:42 -0800, Fishface <(E-Mail Removed)?> wrote:
: Howard wrote:
:
: > Is copper easier to lap than the (nickel and copper?) in the
: > Thermalright Ultra 120 "Convex Edition"?
:
: Oh, do you mean that sheet of nickel plated copper that they
: put between the actual heat sink base and the CPU? Maybe
: it's not really convex but just not flat against the heatsink base.
: Maybe the spring pressure presses it flat and lapping it makes
: it concave under pressure. Or not.

I think I know what you're getting at, the sort of built in
flexibility in the heat spreader on processors like a core2 or
pentium? I'm wishing I had this conversation before I lapped the
stupid heat sink, I hadn't thought about whether it had enough give to
accommodate the Ultra 120 that's a great point.

My Ultra 120 ("Extreme") had a prominent ridge on the CPU. The
closest description is that it resembled an earthen levee or a road
noise suppression berm sort of like what you sometimes see running
alongside highways. It was perfectly parallel to the heat pipes and
ruined the flatness of the heat sinks base. You could put the heat
sink on a flat surface and it would wobble in one axis.

When I lapped the ultra's base it seemed that whatever the silvery
material was was a superficial layer and beneath it, something coppery
all the way down (I think), just like on the CPU heat spreader.

Given that it's not a dimple but rather a sort of ridge on the sink
base do you think a heat spreader would bend to fit it anyway?

 
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Howard
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      11-23-2008, 01:46 PM
On 23 Nov 2008 13:44:55 GMT, Howard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
: My Ultra 120 ("Extreme") had a prominent ridge on the CPU. The
^--- CPU SIDE

Ridge on the cooler base where it sits on the CPU heat spreader arrrrgh.
More coffee needed or more gibberish shall ensue
 
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Fishface
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      11-23-2008, 03:30 PM
Howard wrote:
> Ridge on the cooler base where it sits on the CPU heat spreader arrrrgh.
> More coffee needed or more gibberish shall ensue


On mine, there is a thin copper sheet that contacts the CPU heat spreader,
which is part of the the heat sink. In my eyes, this is an additional thermal
interface. Mine was just gouged, and no where near flat, so I lapped it.
Returned it, I should have. It just doesn't cool all that well. The mounting
system is crap for something that heavy. It looks like that big copper one
uses the same mounting system. I curse those little wires everytime I have
to remove it, like yesterday, and later today. The wire invariably falls out
of one of the bottom holes. I'm getting a 10 C difference between core
pairs so need to reseat. And it's not the first time. If I get too frustrated,
I might get one of these:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/143...ler/index.html

It looks like they have tried to improve the Thermalright somewhat for the I7.
http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/therm...e-1366-rt.html


 
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Howard
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      12-10-2008, 12:48 PM
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:30:42 -0800, Fishface <(E-Mail Removed)?> wrote:
: Howard wrote:
: > Ridge on the cooler base where it sits on the CPU heat spreader arrrrgh.
: > More coffee needed or more gibberish shall ensue
:
: On mine, there is a thin copper sheet that contacts the CPU heat spreader,
: which is part of the the heat sink. In my eyes, this is an additional thermal
: interface. Mine was just gouged, and no where near flat, so I lapped it.
: Returned it, I should have. It just doesn't cool all that well. The mounting
: system is crap for something that heavy. It looks like that big copper one
: uses the same mounting system. I curse those little wires everytime I have
: to remove it, like yesterday, and later today. The wire invariably falls out
: of one of the bottom holes. I'm getting a 10 C difference between core
: pairs so need to reseat. And it's not the first time. If I get too frustrated,
: I might get one of these:
: http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/143...ler/index.html


In retrospect I should have returned mine just for the ridge. If it
had a gouge too I'd have probably kept it since never having lapped
before I had these amazing expectations about how easy it would be and
had visions of performance so stunning that I'd make the liquid
nitrogen guys ask themselves why they bothered. Then reality caught
up with me.

I don't think I've ever seen more than 2-3 degree differences between
the two cores on the E6750. Could that differential you're seeing be
enough to damage the guts?

:
: It looks like they have tried to improve the Thermalright somewhat for the I7.
: http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/therm...e-1366-rt.html
:
:

I like! What do you think about that fan on top configuration? I'll
have to go back to those cases with the holes on the side.
 
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Fishface
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      12-10-2008, 02:09 PM
Howard wrote:

> In retrospect I should have returned mine just for the ridge. If it
> had a gouge too I'd have probably kept it since never having lapped
> before I had these amazing expectations about how easy it would be
> and had visions of performance so stunning that I'd make the liquid
> nitrogen guys ask themselves why they bothered. Then reality caught
> up with me.
>
> I don't think I've ever seen more than 2-3 degree differences between
> the two cores on the E6750. Could that differential you're seeing be
> enough to damage the guts?


Hopefully, the thermal protection built into the processor would kick-in
before that happened! But I'm afraid I still have yet to re-seat it, although
I'm not running any processor intensive apps, at the moment...

> I like! What do you think about that fan on top configuration? I'll
> have to go back to those cases with the holes on the side.


Well, they say those help to cool the components on the motherboard,
like voltage regulating parts. Sometimes I think we're crazy to fight
gravity and hang these two-pound levers off to the side!


 
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Fishface
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      12-10-2008, 02:21 PM
> It looks like they have tried to improve the Thermalright somewhat for the I7.
> http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/therm...e-1366-rt.html


Well, looky here-- it seems now they are selling that fan holder separately for
some other models:
http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/therm...an-holder.html


 
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Howard
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      12-11-2008, 01:14 PM
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:09:48 -0800, Fishface <(E-Mail Removed)?> wrote:
: Howard wrote:
:
: > In retrospect I should have returned mine just for the ridge. If it
: > had a gouge too I'd have probably kept it since never having lapped
: > before I had these amazing expectations about how easy it would be
: > and had visions of performance so stunning that I'd make the liquid
: > nitrogen guys ask themselves why they bothered. Then reality caught
: > up with me.
: >
: > I don't think I've ever seen more than 2-3 degree differences between
: > the two cores on the E6750. Could that differential you're seeing be
: > enough to damage the guts?
:
: Hopefully, the thermal protection built into the processor would kick-in
: before that happened! But I'm afraid I still have yet to re-seat it, although
: I'm not running any processor intensive apps, at the moment...

I forgot about the built in protection but I didn't forget about what
a pain in the rear the mounting system is. Although it does at least
seem to work without damaging the motherboard, which is more than I
can say for a Zalman that dislodged a few SMT caps off an MSI swerver
board that now makes a nice paperweight....

:
: > I like! What do you think about that fan on top configuration? I'll
: > have to go back to those cases with the holes on the side.
:
: Well, they say those help to cool the components on the motherboard,
: like voltage regulating parts. Sometimes I think we're crazy to fight
: gravity and hang these two-pound levers off to the side!
:

It's like a contest. Whoever breaks the most boards wins
 
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Gorby
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      12-15-2008, 02:08 AM
~misfit~ wrote:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs "Phil Weldon" typed:
>> '~misfit~ wrote, in part:
>>> To digress further, I've been comtemplating constructing a solar food
>>> dryer and, rather than the traditional method air-heater (Google)
>>> I've contemplated lining a satelite dish / parabolic reflector with
>>> foil, mounting the black-painted base of my Tt MT (perhaps bolted to
>>> a larger 'collector') at the focal point and running a solar-powered
>>> fan and ducting heat from the fins into the drying cabinet. The
>>> cooler can handle ~100W of heat, that's plenty for a food dryer.

>> _____
>>
>> Keep in mind that heat pipes must be suited to the temperature
>> differential. The fluid inside must be liquid at the cool end and a
>> gas at the other. That's pretty easy to do for a CPU heatsink. You
>> know that the cool end will be exposed to ambient temperatures ~ 10 C
>> to 30 C, and that the hot end will be somewhere less than 75 C. And
>> if the heat pipe capacity is large enough, the hot end will be much
>> nearer the ambient temperature at the cool end. If the fluid should
>> should happen to be 20 C at the cool end and 40 C at the hot end, and
>> be a liquid at each end, no problem, since 40 C is cool enough, and
>> the heat pipe will start working again as the hot end rises in
>> temperature. A air drier for food might require a different working
>> fluid at a different temperature, depending on ambient temperature,
>> moisture content of the food, ambient air temperature, and what
>> temperatures the sun can maintain at the hot end. Also, being in NZ,
>> you'll have to be sure that the heat pipe you choose will work upside
>> down B^)
>> On the other hand, you wouldn't really benefit that much from the
>> heat pipe; and could eliminate the solar powered fan. Just use a
>> black chimney with shaded air inlets at the bottom and let natural
>> convection move warmed air through the drying racks. Or use a
>> exhaust turbine to vent your attic, placing a drying rack below the
>> rotor. Or hire a hobbit with a bough.

>
> LOL, all very valid points Phil.
>
> This is the accepted design:
> http://www.homegrownevolution.com/20...ehydrator.html (or
> variations on it). I just recall seeing some guys heat water to 80+ degrees
> (then making tea) using a ali-foil lined sat dish, a tripod and a small,
> black-painted kettle once and pondered the possibilites...
>
> On a NZ summer day (such as a day when I might have an excess of ripe
> tomatoes) a black object in direct sunlight will hit 40+. I was just musing
> is all... I'll probably never do it. However, that traditional design is
> very cumbersome and since I've changed to using a ThinkPad 98% of the time
> (to reduce electricity bills), and my E7300, even OC'ed to it's limits,
> doesn't get hot enough to warrant anything other than a simple cooler I need
> another excuse to tinker with hardware. <g>
>
> Cheers,

I hope this isn't too off topic, but how efficient are heat pipes when
mounted sideways? That is, in a tower where the mobo is perpendicular to
the ground.

The liquid evaporates at the hot end (the CPU) and condenses at the cool
end (the vanes with airflow). I know they have capillary action to get
the fluid back to the CPU end. But are they more efficient when gravity
also assists? If, so then how much efficiency is lost putting them of
the side?
 
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