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Any Developers using Tablets?

 
 
ECM
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      10-22-2003, 09:15 PM
"J. Tennyson Einstein" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> I agree in regard to the clam shell devices.
>
> I don't think that they should really be called Tablet PC's. Writing on a
> laptop screen is not likely to be useful for taking notes or drawing. Only
> normal "mouse-type" interaction with the pen or quick markups. I've tried to
> use the pen on my C110 in laptop mode and it's pretty much useless.
>
> Back to Troy:
> snip!


IMHO, I disagree - the Fujitsu and Toshiba "clamshells" I've tested
have been marvelous as both laptops AND Tablet PC's. I picked the
Fujitsu clamshell over their tablet "sans keyboard" for several
reasons.

First, a bigger screen - 10.4 vs 12.1".... that's a lot of real
estate! Also, faster processor, longer battery life, better WiFi (11g
instead of 11b), more memory options, tougher for portability (when
closed), and 25% lower price. When it's open to the tablet position,
it feels and works just like the ST4000 series, except a bit bigger.
The downside is that it's a bit heavier - by about 1 pound.

Second, as I suspected, handwriting recognition is NOT the be-all and
end-all - there are a lot of tasks (entering this long reply, for
example) that are considerably faster and easier with a keyboard than
with handwriting recognition. Perhaps this will change as I "train"
the recognition dictionary, but I doubt it - ever since high school
typing has been much faster than writing for me. Writing legibly at
even 60WPM is a chore - try it sometime.

And as for using the pen in laptop mode - there's really no question
that the pen acts as an excellent mouse - far superior to a touchpad
or, god forbid, a keyboard "nub". However, you need to support the
screen somehow in order to actually write on it - it is a problem.
Hopefully, the next iteration of Tablet PC (Tablet PC 2004?) and
Tablet PC hardware will address this issue.

We did test the Fujitsu ST4000 series tablet, and we were completely
underwhelmed..... I suspect that the "tablet" style Tablet PC is going
to be a specialty item in a year or two, while the Tablet PC superset
will be incorporated into a "Laptop PC" Windows edition for the
general consumer....

Anyways, just my opinion.... from a Tablet PC consumer's point of
view, rather than a developer.

Peace!
ECM
 
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ECM
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      10-22-2003, 09:25 PM
"Troy Murphy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<#(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Wouldn't you need, or at least want, a tablet pc if you were developing a
> tablet pc application? What about something like that new Acer which looks
> more like a laptop than a tablet, but does support inking features? Could
> you event develop and test a tablet pc application on anything other than a
> tablet? Once you dock this thing, wouldn't you get the same features as a
> desktop? Sorry, I know little about these.
>
> snip!


A small point we came across while testing several of these devices
for our office - the OS is HIGHLY hardware specific! That is, it has
been modified on every tablet platform, because of the different
hardware solutions that each manufacturer found for the Microsoft
Tablet PC spec.

What that meant to us was that something that worked on one tablet
didn't with the next. The Toshiba 3500, for instance, couldn't use
handwriting or voice to enter data in our server-based database
program - it simply didn't work no matter what we tried. The Fujitsu's
worked fine, without a burp, and without modification....

Maybe if you're thinking of developing Tablet apps you should consider
testing on several tablet PC's....

Peace!
ECM
 
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Chris H.
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      10-22-2003, 10:43 PM
The Windows XP Tablet PC operating system is identical on all Tablets, the
difference is OEM drivers for the various hardware. I would venture to say
the Fujitsu was more meticulously prepped, and updated already with the
software required for Telnet services, available for download from the
Microsoft web site, and may have had different Services already enabled.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet PC Universe - www.tabletpcuniverse.net
Tablet PC Chat - http://thetabletpc.net/support.htm
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"ECM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> "Troy Murphy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

news:<#(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > Wouldn't you need, or at least want, a tablet pc if you were developing

a
> > tablet pc application? What about something like that new Acer which

looks
> > more like a laptop than a tablet, but does support inking features?

Could
> > you event develop and test a tablet pc application on anything other

than a
> > tablet? Once you dock this thing, wouldn't you get the same features as

a
> > desktop? Sorry, I know little about these.
> >
> > snip!

>
> A small point we came across while testing several of these devices
> for our office - the OS is HIGHLY hardware specific! That is, it has
> been modified on every tablet platform, because of the different
> hardware solutions that each manufacturer found for the Microsoft
> Tablet PC spec.
>
> What that meant to us was that something that worked on one tablet
> didn't with the next. The Toshiba 3500, for instance, couldn't use
> handwriting or voice to enter data in our server-based database
> program - it simply didn't work no matter what we tried. The Fujitsu's
> worked fine, without a burp, and without modification....
>
> Maybe if you're thinking of developing Tablet apps you should consider
> testing on several tablet PC's....
>
> Peace!
> ECM



 
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Troy Murphy
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      10-23-2003, 12:37 AM
Thanks for the feedback.
Of course I want the best of both worlds! I don't like to buy new computers
too often - mostly because it is a nightmare to recreate my environment each
time I upgrade. On the same note: I don't mind spending a bit more for
the most current technology just to prolong the obsolescence. The primary
goal would be general application development, but there is at least one or
two tablet applications that I will be developing in the near future. I
develop mostly in Visual FoxPro and C# (.Net) - both development IDE's
gobble screen realestate. I would like to develop and test on the same
machine and demo the application from the development environment as it
would appear on a true tablet. I am convinced that the convertable form
factor would certainly be the only reasonable option. I was looking at the
pictures of the Acer c300 which seems offer this type of environment. The
weight is certainly a factor, but not at the cost of power and loosing a
good development platform. I agree that a clam shell design where the
screen does not flip into a tablet mode would be very utilitarian. I know I
can't write well with with an extended arm - can't write well in any
position actually.

Troy

"J. Tennyson Einstein" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I agree in regard to the clam shell devices.
>
> I don't think that they should really be called Tablet PC's. Writing on a
> laptop screen is not likely to be useful for taking notes or drawing. Only
> normal "mouse-type" interaction with the pen or quick markups. I've tried

to
> use the pen on my C110 in laptop mode and it's pretty much useless.
>
> Back to Troy:
>
> As for testing tablet apps on a desktop... You don't get handwriting
> recognition on a desktop but the ink support is available. While you may
> find a really good development machine in one of the clamshells, consider
> the cost. If it's going to cost you $1000 more for a laptop just because

you
> can use the pen on the screen, you have to decide if it is worth it.
> However, if you are a developer looking to create Tablet PC applications
> then I think you would want to get a tablet. But get one that can convert

to
> portrait mode because this is how a majority of the Tablet PC users are
> going to use your software.
>
> J.T.
>
> "Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > That would be ideal, Troy, but everything you see on a Tablet PC was
> > developed for the most part on a desktop. 8-) You might be interested

in
> > checking out the http://www.tabletpcdeveloper.com/ web site. Developers
> > also hang out in the microsoft.public.tabletpc.developer newsgroup.
> >
> > BTW - The regular laptops with digital screens which run Tablet PC

> software
> > are a "clam shell" version. Personally, I prefer the smaller form

factor,
> > but those who wish to have the advantages of the Tablet on a laptop
> > configuration will be able to do so.
> > --
> > Chris H.
> > Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> > Tablet PC Universe - www.tabletpcuniverse.net
> > Tablet PC Chat - http://thetabletpc.net/support.htm
> > Associate Expert
> > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> >
> > "Troy Murphy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Wouldn't you need, or at least want, a tablet pc if you were

developing
> a
> > > tablet pc application? What about something like that new Acer which

> > looks
> > > more like a laptop than a tablet, but does support inking features?

> Could
> > > you event develop and test a tablet pc application on anything other

> than
> > a
> > > tablet? Once you dock this thing, wouldn't you get the same features

as
> a
> > > desktop? Sorry, I know little about these.
> > >
> > > Troy
> > >
> > > "J. Tennyson Einstein" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > No. The Tablet is not the best platform for an application developer

> and
> > > > anyone that would tell you otherwise is a little too enthusiastic

> about
> > > > their Tablet PC.
> > > >
> > > > Now I'm not saying you can't develop on a Tablet PC. I do

frequently.
> I
> > > have
> > > > an Acer C110. The most annoying problem is not the screen size or
> > > processing
> > > > power... it's the keyboard layout! The PageUp/PageDown are mixed in

> with
> > > the
> > > > Home/End keys. I prefer to develop on my big 21" crt monitor on my
> > > powerful
> > > > desktop though.
> > > >
> > > > If you want an ideal mobile development platform, look for a high

> power,
> > > > large laptop. However, if you take notes frequently and you are

> > interested
> > > > in using the Tablet PC for things other than development, then you

may
> > > love
> > > > a Tablet PC. I love mine. But the Tablet concept offers absolutely

no
> > > > benefit for developers other than a great platform to develop for.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line, don't get a Tablet PC just cause it's the latest,

> greatest
> > > > thing if you only wanna use it for development. If you are gonna use

> it
> > > for
> > > > personal use and note taking, or if you intend to target the Tablet

PC
> > > > platform then you'll probably love it. Just make sure to get a

> centrino.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > J. Tennyson Einstein
> > > > Einstein Technologies
> > > >
> > > > Add ink input to Outlook with Tablet Enhancements for Outlook! Only
> > > $19.99!
> > > > http://www.einsteinware.com
> > > >
> > > > "Troy Murphy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > I am ready to retire my Dell notebook and look into the tablets.

I
> am
> > > > > curious if there are any developers using Visual Studio .NET or

> Visual
> > > > > FoxPro thare are using a tablet as their primary development

> platform.
> > > I
> > > > am
> > > > > fairly certain that a convertable form factor would be best, but

> what
> > > > about
> > > > > other issues like screen resolution, etc. Or, is the tablet not

the
> > > best
> > > > > platform for an applications developer?
> > > > >
> > > > > Troy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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ECM
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      10-23-2003, 02:37 PM
Chris:

Thank you - my point, but much better wording....

Peace!
ECM

"Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> The Windows XP Tablet PC operating system is identical on all Tablets, the
> difference is OEM drivers for the various hardware. I would venture to say
> the Fujitsu was more meticulously prepped, and updated already with the
> software required for Telnet services, available for download from the
> Microsoft web site, and may have had different Services already enabled.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet PC Universe - www.tabletpcuniverse.net
> Tablet PC Chat - http://thetabletpc.net/support.htm
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
> "ECM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > "Troy Murphy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message

> news:<#(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > > Wouldn't you need, or at least want, a tablet pc if you were developing

> a
> > > tablet pc application? What about something like that new Acer which

> looks
> > > more like a laptop than a tablet, but does support inking features?

> Could
> > > you event develop and test a tablet pc application on anything other

> than a
> > > tablet? Once you dock this thing, wouldn't you get the same features as

> a
> > > desktop? Sorry, I know little about these.
> > >
> > > snip!

> >
> > A small point we came across while testing several of these devices
> > for our office - the OS is HIGHLY hardware specific! That is, it has
> > been modified on every tablet platform, because of the different
> > hardware solutions that each manufacturer found for the Microsoft
> > Tablet PC spec.
> >
> > What that meant to us was that something that worked on one tablet
> > didn't with the next. The Toshiba 3500, for instance, couldn't use
> > handwriting or voice to enter data in our server-based database
> > program - it simply didn't work no matter what we tried. The Fujitsu's
> > worked fine, without a burp, and without modification....
> >
> > Maybe if you're thinking of developing Tablet apps you should consider
> > testing on several tablet PC's....
> >
> > Peace!
> > ECM

 
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Chris H.
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      10-23-2003, 03:09 PM
8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet PC Universe - www.tabletpcuniverse.net
Tablet PC Chat - http://thetabletpc.net/support.htm
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"ECM" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Chris:
>
> Thank you - my point, but much better wording....
>
> Peace!
> ECM



 
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