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icegray
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      02-25-2008, 03:32 PM
Hi,
I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
I have been using Renesas M16C series as 16 bit Microcontroller and I
need a powerfull 32bit CPU. I don't think use SuperH series because
ARM9 has a lot of documets and sources i think. Freescale MX9328MX21S
and Atmel SAM9263 or SAM9261 can better choices ? Could you please
share your experiences about this subject?
Thanks in advance
 
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Vladimir Vassilevsky
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      02-25-2008, 03:54 PM


icegray wrote:

> Hi,
> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.


You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.


Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com
 
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icegray
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      02-25-2008, 04:13 PM
On 25 Šubat, 17:54, Vladimir Vassilevsky <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> icegray wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
> > details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
> > audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
> > maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

>
> You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.
>
> Vladimir Vassilevsky
> DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultanthttp://www.abvolt.com


This feature is not absolute features. There are lots of arm based
mobile phones and they have this features expect high lcd resolution.
Also ARM9 developmet boards have almost this features.
 
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Vladimir Vassilevsky
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      02-25-2008, 04:26 PM

>>>I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
>>>details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
>>>audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
>>>maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

>>
>>You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.
>>

> This feature is not absolute features. There are lots of arm based
> mobile phones and they have this features expect high lcd resolution.
> Also ARM9 developmet boards have almost this features.



If you need the automotive infortaiment project to be built on time and
done for good, you need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or
Embedded XP. If your real goal is to prove something, you may use ARM9,
linux or whatsoever.


Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com



 
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Tim Wescott
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      02-25-2008, 04:32 PM
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:

> icegray wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
>> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
>> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
>> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

>
> You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.


Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
sell and make money for your company.

The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
serious engineering.

I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
itself. The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:

* Are you going to stream video at all? If everything else can go at
"GUI" speeds your processor can be modest. This means that having that
rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.

* Are you going to stream video through the processor? I.e., can you get
by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
byte that goes through?

* Are you going to decompress video in the processor? Are you going to
be playing MPEG files and DVDs? If _that's_ the case then maybe
Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
video decompresser (if such things exist these days).

I don't see anything in principal wrong with Linux -- I'm typing this
from a linux box that does just fine with video (in fact, I got it to
force me to learn linux for the day when I'd be writing for embedded
linux). Then again, I don't see anything wrong with Windows in
principal, either. I lean toward Linux for entirely emotional reasons:
it always ****es me off to have an OS salesman tell me (and my customer)
how easy it'll be to use, because I know that when I get down to brass
tacks I'll be seeing more of my customers money go down the drain,
through my time or one of their engineers', on OS deficits than was spent
on the OS in the first place. So choosing Linux, VxWorks, Windows
Embedded, or any other OS should be based on your best guess of the
benefits of the OS for your application, taking all things into
consideration.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
 
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Sergey Kubushin
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-25-2008, 05:16 PM
icegray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Feb 25, 6:32*pm, Tim Wescott <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>> > icegray wrote:

>>
>> >> Hi,
>> >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
>> >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
>> >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
>> >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

>>
>> > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.

>
> ok maybe ARM9 performance not enough but why windows? could you please
> explain more?
>
>>
>> Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
>> sell and make money for your company. *
>>
>> The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
>> product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
>> you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
>> serious engineering.
>>
>> I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
>> itself. *The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
>> and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:
>>
>> * Are you going to stream video at all? *If everything else can go at
>> "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest. *This means that having that
>> rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.
>>
>> * Are you going to stream video through the processor? *I.e., can you get
>> by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
>> running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
>> like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
>> byte that goes through?
>>
>> * Are you going to decompress video in the processor? *Are you going to
>> be playing MPEG files and DVDs? *If _that's_ the case then maybe
>> Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
>> you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
>> getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
>> video decompresser (if such things exist these days).

>
> You are right this device should be cost-effective. I am not sure now
> that i will use what kind of camera. This device do not play any kind
> of video, there are only one video source and it is rear-view camera.
> If ARM9 not enough for handle video i can use ASIC for LCD driving and
> camera data streaming.


You can use e.g. something from DaVinci family from TI. It will work much
better than a Pentium-XYZ, you don't need Windoze, it will drive your LCD,
videocamera and everything else (probably excluding CAN) right off the chip.
It will cost less than Pentium-XYZ and Linux is totally free. You will get
all the graphics and GUI you need with it and it will draw 100 times less
power.

Don't buy Windoze crap. It is not worth it.

---
************************************************** ****************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
************************************************** ****************

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
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icegray
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-25-2008, 05:46 PM
On Feb 25, 6:32*pm, Tim Wescott <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> > icegray wrote:

>
> >> Hi,
> >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
> >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
> >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
> >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

>
> > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.


ok maybe ARM9 performance not enough but why windows? could you please
explain more?

>
> Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
> sell and make money for your company. *
>
> The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
> product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
> you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
> serious engineering.
>
> I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
> itself. *The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
> and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:
>
> * Are you going to stream video at all? *If everything else can go at
> "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest. *This means that having that
> rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.
>
> * Are you going to stream video through the processor? *I.e., can you get
> by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
> running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
> like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
> byte that goes through?
>
> * Are you going to decompress video in the processor? *Are you going to
> be playing MPEG files and DVDs? *If _that's_ the case then maybe
> Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
> you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
> getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
> video decompresser (if such things exist these days).


You are right this device should be cost-effective. I am not sure now
that i will use what kind of camera. This device do not play any kind
of video, there are only one video source and it is rear-view camera.
If ARM9 not enough for handle video i can use ASIC for LCD driving and
camera data streaming.

>
> I don't see anything in principal wrong with Linux -- I'm typing this
> from a linux box that does just fine with video (in fact, I got it to
> force me to learn linux for the day when I'd be writing for embedded
> linux). *Then again, I don't see anything wrong with Windows in
> principal, either. *I lean toward Linux for entirely emotional reasons: *
> it always ****es me off to have an OS salesman tell me (and my customer)
> how easy it'll be to use, because I know that when I get down to brass
> tacks I'll be seeing more of my customers money go down the drain,
> through my time or one of their engineers', on OS deficits than was spent
> on the OS in the first place. *So choosing Linux, VxWorks, Windows
> Embedded, or any other OS should be based on your best guess of the
> benefits of the OS for your application, taking all things into
> consideration.
>


I have never use OS in embedded but i have research about it. I think
linux is better choice with ARM9. Also if ARM9 not usable for this
features what is your recommendation?

> --
> Tim Wescott
> Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com
>
> Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
> "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
> Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


 
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linnix
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-25-2008, 06:52 PM
On Feb 25, 9:46 am, icegray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Feb 25, 6:32 pm, Tim Wescott <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> > > icegray wrote:

>
> > >> Hi,
> > >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
> > >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
> > >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
> > >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

>
> > > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.

>
> ok maybe ARM9 performance not enough but why windows? could you please
> explain more?
>
>
>
>
>
> > Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
> > sell and make money for your company.

>
> > The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
> > product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
> > you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
> > serious engineering.

>
> > I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
> > itself. The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
> > and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:

>
> > * Are you going to stream video at all? If everything else can go at
> > "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest. This means that having that
> > rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.

>
> > * Are you going to stream video through the processor? I.e., can you get
> > by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
> > running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
> > like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
> > byte that goes through?

>
> > * Are you going to decompress video in the processor? Are you going to
> > be playing MPEG files and DVDs? If _that's_ the case then maybe
> > Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
> > you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
> > getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
> > video decompresser (if such things exist these days).

>
> You are right this device should be cost-effective. I am not sure now
> that i will use what kind of camera. This device do not play any kind
> of video, there are only one video source and it is rear-view camera.
> If ARM9 not enough for handle video i can use ASIC for LCD driving and
> camera data streaming.
>
>
>
> > I don't see anything in principal wrong with Linux -- I'm typing this
> > from a linux box that does just fine with video (in fact, I got it to
> > force me to learn linux for the day when I'd be writing for embedded
> > linux). Then again, I don't see anything wrong with Windows in
> > principal, either. I lean toward Linux for entirely emotional reasons:
> > it always ****es me off to have an OS salesman tell me (and my customer)
> > how easy it'll be to use, because I know that when I get down to brass
> > tacks I'll be seeing more of my customers money go down the drain,
> > through my time or one of their engineers', on OS deficits than was spent
> > on the OS in the first place. So choosing Linux, VxWorks, Windows
> > Embedded, or any other OS should be based on your best guess of the
> > benefits of the OS for your application, taking all things into
> > consideration.

>
> I have never use OS in embedded but i have research about it. I think
> linux is better choice with ARM9. Also if ARM9 not usable for this
> features what is your recommendation?
>


I use something similar for video capture and payback.

My ideal linux board is a 1G Pentium III uATX board with SIS chip set
(not VIA or Intel). It supports 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 kernels. 2.2 is
important for me because certain features I need are not available in
newer kernels which are Window-lized (getting too big). Newer PC
boards don't work too well with 2.2.

Actually, the board was a throw-away from someone "upgrading" to
Vista. I would gladly "upgrade" your board free with newer one, if
you have the right one I need.

 
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linnix
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-25-2008, 06:56 PM
On Feb 25, 10:52 am, linnix <(E-Mail Removed)-for.us> wrote:
> On Feb 25, 9:46 am, icegray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 6:32 pm, Tim Wescott <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> > > On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0600, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> > > > icegray wrote:

>
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
> > > >> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
> > > >> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
> > > >> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.

>
> > > > You need a Pentium class industrial PC with WinCE or Embedded XP.

>
> > ok maybe ARM9 performance not enough but why windows? could you please
> > explain more?

>
> > > Unless, of course, you want your device to have a low enough COGS to both
> > > sell and make money for your company.

>
> > > The above mentioned combination may be the best to _prototype_ the
> > > product, but I wouldn't rule it in for the real product, particularly if
> > > you're going to be shipping in high enough volumes to justify some
> > > serious engineering.

>
> > > I doubt that you'll find one processor that does all that you want all by
> > > itself. The biggest driver to processing power that I can see is video,
> > > and even that is highly variable depending on what you want to do:

>
> > > * Are you going to stream video at all? If everything else can go at
> > > "GUI" speeds your processor can be modest. This means that having that
> > > rear-view camera is going to make an expensive step in your COGS.

>
> > > * Are you going to stream video through the processor? I.e., can you get
> > > by with a chipset that hijacks part of the screen for video without
> > > running the data through the processor, or are you going to do something
> > > like use a USB or Firewire camera and have the processor fondle every
> > > byte that goes through?

>
> > > * Are you going to decompress video in the processor? Are you going to
> > > be playing MPEG files and DVDs? If _that's_ the case then maybe
> > > Vladimir's Pentium is a candidate, although for a large production run
> > > you could probably do better with a more modest 'main' processor that's
> > > getting serious help from a DSP chip, an FPGA, an ASIC, or a dedicated
> > > video decompresser (if such things exist these days).

>
> > You are right this device should be cost-effective. I am not sure now
> > that i will use what kind of camera. This device do not play any kind
> > of video, there are only one video source and it is rear-view camera.
> > If ARM9 not enough for handle video i can use ASIC for LCD driving and
> > camera data streaming.

>
> > > I don't see anything in principal wrong with Linux -- I'm typing this
> > > from a linux box that does just fine with video (in fact, I got it to
> > > force me to learn linux for the day when I'd be writing for embedded
> > > linux). Then again, I don't see anything wrong with Windows in
> > > principal, either. I lean toward Linux for entirely emotional reasons:
> > > it always ****es me off to have an OS salesman tell me (and my customer)
> > > how easy it'll be to use, because I know that when I get down to brass
> > > tacks I'll be seeing more of my customers money go down the drain,
> > > through my time or one of their engineers', on OS deficits than was spent
> > > on the OS in the first place. So choosing Linux, VxWorks, Windows
> > > Embedded, or any other OS should be based on your best guess of the
> > > benefits of the OS for your application, taking all things into
> > > consideration.

>
> > I have never use OS in embedded but i have research about it. I think
> > linux is better choice with ARM9. Also if ARM9 not usable for this
> > features what is your recommendation?

>
> I use something similar for video capture and payback.


Sorry, "playback" of course.

>
> My ideal linux board is a 1G Pentium III uATX board with SIS chip set
> (not VIA or Intel). It supports 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 kernels. 2.2 is
> important for me because certain features I need are not available in
> newer kernels which are Window-lized (getting too big). Newer PC
> boards don't work too well with 2.2.
>
> Actually, the board was a throw-away from someone "upgrading" to
> Vista. I would gladly "upgrade" your board free with newer one, if
> you have the right one I need.


 
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karthikbalaguru
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-25-2008, 07:30 PM
On Feb 25, 8:32*pm, icegray <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am looking for cpu for a automotive infotainment project. Project
> details are 800x600 lcd, graphical charts, graphical user interfaces,
> audio (MP3 and Radio), CAN Bus communication, probably embedded linux,
> maybe rear camera and gps, etc.
> I have been using Renesas M16C series as 16 bit Microcontroller and I
> need a powerfull 32bit CPU. I don't think use SuperH series because
> ARM9 has a lot of documets and sources i think. Freescale MX9328MX21S
> and Atmel SAM9263 or SAM9261 can better choices ? Could you please
> share your experiences about this subject?
> Thanks in advance


Check TI OMAP and TI DaVinci Processors.
They are excellent.

Karthik Balaguru
 
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