Bad KW7 ?? Not Again !!

Abit sent me a replacement last month (I posted about the first one in
mid-September), and I took a month to place it back into a case.

Aw, sh*t...

Have a Sempron 2400+ (orig bought w/ KW7 April-ish), a Duron 1.6gig, and a
Sempron 2800+ as CPU options for the board, and some sticks of Corsair and
Geil ram w/ DDR speed ratings from 400 to 550 - all of which work _fine_ in
an MSI 6570E nForce2 mobo. A couple of good power supplies (voltages are ok
and fairly stable, AFAICT), and two AGP 3.0 video cards - an Ati 9700 AIW,
and an Abit/Ati 9550 Guru.

Returned the old board because it progressively lost its FSB capabilities.
Stopped running 5:6 w/ the ram (166/200) using the 2400+ at stock (it *does*
OC nicely to FSB of 200 on the MSI), and would only run 1:1 w/ 166. Then, it
wouldn't boot unless I set it 1:1 w/ FSB of 133. Finally, it wouldn't boot
at all. *That* got it RMA'd.

I'm flabbergasted by the results I get w/ the board they sent me as a
replacement. It really won't run unless I set the FSB to 133. Well, it seems
ok if I put the Geil Ultra 550 in and run it at 166, but I couldn't get XP
to install cleanly regardless. Tried the 2800+ and Duron 1.6g, w/out seeing
any improvement.

WTF?

I don't know what BIOS rev it has (and, frankly don't think it matters),
because I've replaced the f*Ckin' thing w/ a cheaparse 133FSB PCChips mobo
and Ati Rage 128, dropped in the Duron, and don't mind as much that the box
is running at 133. At least w/ the PCChips board, I'm getting what I paid
for!!

Am I missing something? What should I try before I RMA *this* one?? With
Abit's current financial condition, I'm a bit concerned that I might not get
*any* replacement if I send them this one. I might be better off fighting w/
the place I bought it last spring; I just don't know.

Anyway, I'm open to any and all suggestions. Should I over/undervolt the
ram? Screw w/ the timings?? Flash the bios??? Hop on one leg patting my head
while pressing the power button????

Of course, I could ask Abit tech support all these things, but I'm guessing
they would be less responsive to this approach than the members of this ng
will be... <eg>

TIA!

--
StewRat `8^Þ

Just say NO to topposting:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html#Q7

....just bad luck.

My KW7 runs at 200MHz fsb with an XP3100+ OEM Thorton
and low cost ddr ram in dual channel mode without any problem.

Fritz

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:46:35 +0100, in <dp17e3$4ad$03$>
"Friedrich Wuelfing" <> wrote:

>...just bad luck.

Why should there be any luck involved in getting a replacement motherboard
directly from technical service? Shouldn't it be perfect???
>
>My KW7 runs at 200MHz fsb with an XP3100+ OEM Thorton
>and low cost ddr ram in dual channel mode without any problem.
>
>Fritz
>
The first one did fine for four months or so, and then fizzled. Fan on the
Northbridge worked ok, case open most of the time, never even OC'd. So, I
don't see where I might have hurt it.

Now - Why the heck would they send me a mobo that is already bad? Wouldn't
you QC your replacement boards a little better than the ones that go out
normally?? I expected them to.

So, I still wonder if I am doing something wrong. Very skeptical, of course,
but....

--
StewRat `8^Þ

Just say NO to topposting:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html#Q7

Something that dies slowly and progressively over several months is
for either one (or both) of the following:

1) a component is overheating / has been overheated
2) a component has been damaged by ESD

I would be tempted to verify that the cpu and memory will run at an
FSB 200 MHz in a different motherboard before rma'ing again. That
should definitely eliminate both components as the cause. Testing on
a 133 MHz motherboard doesn't completely eliminate them.

Forrest

Motherboard Help By HAL web site:
http://home.comcast.net/~mobo.help/


On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:36:45 GMT, StewRat <>
wrote:

< snip >
>Returned the old board because it progressively lost its FSB capabilities.
< snip >
>I'm flabbergasted by the results I get w/ the board they sent me as a
>replacement. It really won't run unless I set the FSB to 133.
< snip >

> The first one did fine for four months or so, and then fizzled. Fan on the
> Northbridge worked ok, case open most of the time, never even OC'd. So, I
> don't see where I might have hurt it.
>

You made me open my pc case.
I really have an Abit KW7 V1.0 inside but it has no northbridge fan.
Are we talking about the same board?

Fritz

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:15:30 -0600, in
<> - HAL9000 <>
wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:36:45 GMT, StewRat <>
>wrote:
>
> < snip >
>>Returned the old board because it progressively lost its FSB capabilities.
> < snip >
>>I'm flabbergasted by the results I get w/ the board they sent me as a
>>replacement. It really won't run unless I set the FSB to 133.
> < snip >

>Something that dies slowly and progressively over several months is
>for either one (or both) of the following:
>
>1) a component is overheating / has been overheated

Hence my attention to the northbridge fan, and overall cooling of the
system. Note it was never overclocked, and the fans always operational.

>2) a component has been damaged by ESD

Re the first motherboard/system, it was transported a few times in the back
of my car after being completed, so that I could use the HD monitor at work
to give the WMV-HD discs a workout. Possibly discharge affected the
ungrounded pc, but I'm a little skeptical. I'm pretty consistent about wrist
straps, and I do my assembly in the (somewhat damp, and static free,
uncarpeted) basement of my home. Don't know when I could have zapped the
replacement mobo. Really.
>
>I would be tempted to verify that the cpu and memory will run at an
>FSB 200 MHz in a different motherboard before rma'ing again.

Both are doing that right now on the MSI 6570E board, smooth as silk. The
2800+ insists on staying at 166, but what you gonna do...

>That
>should definitely eliminate both components as the cause. Testing on
>a 133 MHz motherboard doesn't completely eliminate them.

Understood. Originally, when the 2400+ stopped working, I bought the Duron
to see if it was the CPU. When it worked, I rma'd the Sempron. I was a bit
disappointed when nothing changed w/ the replacement CPU. I then went to two
other semi-modern Socket 462 mobos before deciding it was definitely the KW7
(the PCChips 266 is the third, bought out of total frustration). I also
bought the extra stick of DDR550 ram as part of the diagnostic process.

All in all, I'd say this has become a pretty expensive inexpensive
multimedia mobo experiment, if you were to ask... <eg>
>
>Forrest
>
>Motherboard Help By HAL web site:
>http://home.comcast.net/~mobo.help/
>
>

--
StewRat `8^Þ

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:19:18 +0100, in <dp1gcd$aup$02$>
"Friedrich Wuelfing" <> wrote:

>> The first one did fine for four months or so, and then fizzled. Fan on the
>> Northbridge worked ok, case open most of the time, never even OC'd. So, I
>> don't see where I might have hurt it.
>>
>
>You made me open my pc case.
>I really have an Abit KW7 V1.0 inside but it has no northbridge fan.
>Are we talking about the same board?
>
>Fritz
>
Sorry about that, and you are right. Same version, and same tall-finned heat
sink (like the zalman you recommended to someone else, and that I have on my
old ASUS AV133 (replaced its fan w the J model).

--
StewRat `8^Þ

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:46:35 +0100, in <dp17e3$4ad$03$>
"Friedrich Wuelfing" <> wrote:

>
>...just bad luck.

Yes, I suppose you are right. If it looks like a duck, walks like...

So - do you think I'm better off trying to rma it to Abit, or trying to get
Micro Center to take it back?

I'd like to think I can't get three in a row wrong... (like, remembering a
fan that isn't there...)

Oh, well.

Thanks to all who replied.

Hey, if Shuttle can survive, why not Abit??

--
StewRat `8^Þ

ESD damage is normally accompanied with temperature sensitivity -
won't work as well (freezes or reboots) after warm up. This sort of
damage can occur at the factory (unlikely), by the vendor, or during
installation. Static discharges to the case / enclosure, once the
board is installed, is not a concern.

Over heating problems are normally accompanied with a burning
electronics smell. A board can be defective and overheating from the
factory. This sort of problem is not likely to be caught by quality
control. Some short somewhere on the board is the most likely root
cause.

At this point, to me, the first board sounds like it got hit by esd
while the second board just sounds bad / duff. But what doesn't jive
is that the replacement Sempron should be working at 200 MHz and its
only running at 166 MHz. Shouldn't the Sempron work at 200 MHz? If
it's only running at 166 MHz in the MSI board is there any reason to
think it will do better in any other motherboard?

Forrest

Motherboard Help By HAL web site:
http://home.comcast.net/~mobo.help/


On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:08:02 GMT, StewRat <>
wrote:

< snip >
>... I rma'd the Sempron. I was a bit
>disappointed when nothing changed w/ the replacement CPU.
< snip >

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:34:12 -0600, in
<> - HAL9000 <>
wrote:

>At this point, to me, the first board sounds like it got hit by esd
>while the second board just sounds bad / duff. But what doesn't jive
>is that the replacement Sempron should be working at 200 MHz and its
>only running at 166 MHz. Shouldn't the Sempron work at 200 MHz? If
>it's only running at 166 MHz in the MSI board is there any reason to
>think it will do better in any other motherboard?

Actually, both Semprons I have now are *supposed* to run at 166. The 2400+
AMD sent me as a replacement for the first one runs fine in the MSI board at
200 FSB (which I believe I wrote; I never tried one that way in the original
KW7), while the 2800+ I bought more recently won't (a minor disappointment,
of course). Of the two, I prefer the 2400+, consequently. I think I've read
about some special OEM Semprons w/ 512k L2, but I don't remember any w/
designed 200 FSB. Have I missed some? I think AMD were trying hard to avoid
performance on a par w/ the Bartons, and skipped 200. Anyway, I'm not happy
w/ the replacement mobo running no better than 133, regardless of the cpu.
I'm just quite nervous about sending the board (roughly a $70 investment) to
a company that might never send it back, what w/ their financial
circumstances and all. Besides, I already spent about $12 for the first
return. I can get another MSI for about $45, so...

--
StewRat `8^Þ