Battery quickly discharges while laptop is shut down.

[NEW HP Pavilion dv6570[ed] Notebook (with Windows Vista Home Premium
Edition).]

After a recent two-step (away-home-away-home) holiday, I encountered a
very strange scenario with my new laptop:

- Before going away, I shut down the laptop and removed the DC adapter.

- When I returned after only 7 days, the battery had discharged to 35%.

- I recharged the battery, shut down the laptop, removed the DC adapter
and went on the second leg of my holiday.

- When I returned after only 11 days, the battery was completely dead,
i.e. the laptop would not power up while on battery.

OK, bad battery, I thought. But reading the Help and Support, I saw
the battery calibration procedure (similar to that at [1]) and thought
let's try that.

To my suprsise, the laptop worked for over three and a half hours
(19:10-22:50) on the battery, which is IMO not at all bad and IMO no
indication of a bad battery [2].

Do you have any explanation for this strange behaviour, i.e. very
quick discharge when *not* used, while lasting rather long when used?

Any other recommendations? This problem is hard to troubleshoot
because in order to test any changes, I have to refrain from using the
laptop for extended periods, which I of course do not want to do. The
only workaround I can think of is to remove the battery (and use the
laptop on AC/mains power) and see whether it discharges then.

FWIW, I have never seen such a quick discharge when not used. Not with
my (now dead) OmniBook vt6200 and not with my wife's HP Pavilion dv4205
laptop. FYI, the battery of my wife's laptop was still at 74% after the
whole two legs of our holiday, a total of 20 days.

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

[1]
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/g...reg_R1002_USEN

[2] To be fair, when using the calibration procedure, the settings are
such that the display does not turn off and the computer does not go to
sleep, but the 'hidden' advanced settings are still set to turn off the
hard disk after 10 minutes (and I did not really *use* the laptop most
of the (discharge) time) and there are other hidden advanced settings
set to preserve the battery.

Please?

No-one with any explanation/recommendation?

A week ago, I wrote:
> [NEW HP Pavilion dv6570[ed] Notebook (with Windows Vista Home Premium
> Edition).]
>
> After a recent two-step (away-home-away-home) holiday, I encountered a
> very strange scenario with my new laptop:
>
> - Before going away, I shut down the laptop and removed the DC adapter.
>
> - When I returned after only 7 days, the battery had discharged to 35%.
>
> - I recharged the battery, shut down the laptop, removed the DC adapter
> and went on the second leg of my holiday.
>
> - When I returned after only 11 days, the battery was completely dead,
> i.e. the laptop would not power up while on battery.
>
> OK, bad battery, I thought. But reading the Help and Support, I saw
> the battery calibration procedure (similar to that at [1]) and thought
> let's try that.
>
> To my suprsise, the laptop worked for over three and a half hours
> (19:10-22:50) on the battery, which is IMO not at all bad and IMO no
> indication of a bad battery [2].
>
> Do you have any explanation for this strange behaviour, i.e. very
> quick discharge when *not* used, while lasting rather long when used?
>
> Any other recommendations? This problem is hard to troubleshoot
> because in order to test any changes, I have to refrain from using the
> laptop for extended periods, which I of course do not want to do. The
> only workaround I can think of is to remove the battery (and use the
> laptop on AC/mains power) and see whether it discharges then.
>
> FWIW, I have never seen such a quick discharge when not used. Not with
> my (now dead) OmniBook vt6200 and not with my wife's HP Pavilion dv4205
> laptop. FYI, the battery of my wife's laptop was still at 74% after the
> whole two legs of our holiday, a total of 20 days.
>
> Thanks in advance for any and all responses.
>
> [1]
> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/g...reg_R1002_USEN
>
> [2] To be fair, when using the calibration procedure, the settings are
> such that the display does not turn off and the computer does not go to
> sleep, but the 'hidden' advanced settings are still set to turn off the
> hard disk after 10 minutes (and I did not really *use* the laptop most
> of the (discharge) time) and there are other hidden advanced settings
> set to preserve the battery.

If not a bad battery, maybe a defective system? This sort of battery discharge
is highly irregular... Ben Myers

On 07 Oct 2007 15:13:20 GMT, Frank Slootweg <> wrote:

> Please?
>
> No-one with any explanation/recommendation?
>
>A week ago, I wrote:
>> [NEW HP Pavilion dv6570[ed] Notebook (with Windows Vista Home Premium
>> Edition).]
>>
>> After a recent two-step (away-home-away-home) holiday, I encountered a
>> very strange scenario with my new laptop:
>>
>> - Before going away, I shut down the laptop and removed the DC adapter.
>>
>> - When I returned after only 7 days, the battery had discharged to 35%.
>>
>> - I recharged the battery, shut down the laptop, removed the DC adapter
>> and went on the second leg of my holiday.
>>
>> - When I returned after only 11 days, the battery was completely dead,
>> i.e. the laptop would not power up while on battery.
>>
>> OK, bad battery, I thought. But reading the Help and Support, I saw
>> the battery calibration procedure (similar to that at [1]) and thought
>> let's try that.
>>
>> To my suprsise, the laptop worked for over three and a half hours
>> (19:10-22:50) on the battery, which is IMO not at all bad and IMO no
>> indication of a bad battery [2].
>>
>> Do you have any explanation for this strange behaviour, i.e. very
>> quick discharge when *not* used, while lasting rather long when used?
>>
>> Any other recommendations? This problem is hard to troubleshoot
>> because in order to test any changes, I have to refrain from using the
>> laptop for extended periods, which I of course do not want to do. The
>> only workaround I can think of is to remove the battery (and use the
>> laptop on AC/mains power) and see whether it discharges then.
>>
>> FWIW, I have never seen such a quick discharge when not used. Not with
>> my (now dead) OmniBook vt6200 and not with my wife's HP Pavilion dv4205
>> laptop. FYI, the battery of my wife's laptop was still at 74% after the
>> whole two legs of our holiday, a total of 20 days.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any and all responses.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/g...reg_R1002_USEN
>>
>> [2] To be fair, when using the calibration procedure, the settings are
>> such that the display does not turn off and the computer does not go to
>> sleep, but the 'hidden' advanced settings are still set to turn off the
>> hard disk after 10 minutes (and I did not really *use* the laptop most
>> of the (discharge) time) and there are other hidden advanced settings
>> set to preserve the battery.

Ben Myers <> wrote:
> If not a bad battery, maybe a defective system? This sort of battery
> discharge is highly irregular... Ben Myers

But if the system is defective, then why does it run on battery for
three and a half hours?

BTW, is it safe to remove/insert the battery when the computer is on
mains power but sleeping (i.e. with the lid closed)? I ask because then
I could remove the battery to see if it discharges outside the laptop
and still insert/remove it when I have to move the laptop inside my
house.

> On 07 Oct 2007 15:13:20 GMT, Frank Slootweg <> wrote:
>
> > Please?
> >
> > No-one with any explanation/recommendation?
> >
> >A week ago, I wrote:
> >> [NEW HP Pavilion dv6570[ed] Notebook (with Windows Vista Home Premium
> >> Edition).]
> >>
> >> After a recent two-step (away-home-away-home) holiday, I encountered a
> >> very strange scenario with my new laptop:
> >>
> >> - Before going away, I shut down the laptop and removed the DC adapter.
> >>
> >> - When I returned after only 7 days, the battery had discharged to 35%.
> >>
> >> - I recharged the battery, shut down the laptop, removed the DC adapter
> >> and went on the second leg of my holiday.
> >>
> >> - When I returned after only 11 days, the battery was completely dead,
> >> i.e. the laptop would not power up while on battery.
> >>
> >> OK, bad battery, I thought. But reading the Help and Support, I saw
> >> the battery calibration procedure (similar to that at [1]) and thought
> >> let's try that.
> >>
> >> To my suprsise, the laptop worked for over three and a half hours
> >> (19:10-22:50) on the battery, which is IMO not at all bad and IMO no
> >> indication of a bad battery [2].
> >>
> >> Do you have any explanation for this strange behaviour, i.e. very
> >> quick discharge when *not* used, while lasting rather long when used?
> >>
> >> Any other recommendations? This problem is hard to troubleshoot
> >> because in order to test any changes, I have to refrain from using the
> >> laptop for extended periods, which I of course do not want to do. The
> >> only workaround I can think of is to remove the battery (and use the
> >> laptop on AC/mains power) and see whether it discharges then.
> >>
> >> FWIW, I have never seen such a quick discharge when not used. Not with
> >> my (now dead) OmniBook vt6200 and not with my wife's HP Pavilion dv4205
> >> laptop. FYI, the battery of my wife's laptop was still at 74% after the
> >> whole two legs of our holiday, a total of 20 days.
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance for any and all responses.
> >>
> >> [1]
> >> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/g...reg_R1002_USEN
> >>
> >> [2] To be fair, when using the calibration procedure, the settings are
> >> such that the display does not turn off and the computer does not go to
> >> sleep, but the 'hidden' advanced settings are still set to turn off the
> >> hard disk after 10 minutes (and I did not really *use* the laptop most
> >> of the (discharge) time) and there are other hidden advanced settings
> >> set to preserve the battery.

Yes, it is safe to remove a battery while a computer is on mains power. You may
get a telling result from doing so... Ben Myers


On 07 Oct 2007 20:20:12 GMT, Frank Slootweg <> wrote:

>Ben Myers <> wrote:
>> If not a bad battery, maybe a defective system? This sort of battery
>> discharge is highly irregular... Ben Myers
>
> But if the system is defective, then why does it run on battery for
>three and a half hours?
>
> BTW, is it safe to remove/insert the battery when the computer is on
>mains power but sleeping (i.e. with the lid closed)? I ask because then
>I could remove the battery to see if it discharges outside the laptop
>and still insert/remove it when I have to move the laptop inside my
>house.
>
>> On 07 Oct 2007 15:13:20 GMT, Frank Slootweg <> wrote:
>>
>> > Please?
>> >
>> > No-one with any explanation/recommendation?
>> >
>> >A week ago, I wrote:
>> >> [NEW HP Pavilion dv6570[ed] Notebook (with Windows Vista Home Premium
>> >> Edition).]
>> >>
>> >> After a recent two-step (away-home-away-home) holiday, I encountered a
>> >> very strange scenario with my new laptop:
>> >>
>> >> - Before going away, I shut down the laptop and removed the DC adapter.
>> >>
>> >> - When I returned after only 7 days, the battery had discharged to 35%.
>> >>
>> >> - I recharged the battery, shut down the laptop, removed the DC adapter
>> >> and went on the second leg of my holiday.
>> >>
>> >> - When I returned after only 11 days, the battery was completely dead,
>> >> i.e. the laptop would not power up while on battery.
>> >>
>> >> OK, bad battery, I thought. But reading the Help and Support, I saw
>> >> the battery calibration procedure (similar to that at [1]) and thought
>> >> let's try that.
>> >>
>> >> To my suprsise, the laptop worked for over three and a half hours
>> >> (19:10-22:50) on the battery, which is IMO not at all bad and IMO no
>> >> indication of a bad battery [2].
>> >>
>> >> Do you have any explanation for this strange behaviour, i.e. very
>> >> quick discharge when *not* used, while lasting rather long when used?
>> >>
>> >> Any other recommendations? This problem is hard to troubleshoot
>> >> because in order to test any changes, I have to refrain from using the
>> >> laptop for extended periods, which I of course do not want to do. The
>> >> only workaround I can think of is to remove the battery (and use the
>> >> laptop on AC/mains power) and see whether it discharges then.
>> >>
>> >> FWIW, I have never seen such a quick discharge when not used. Not with
>> >> my (now dead) OmniBook vt6200 and not with my wife's HP Pavilion dv4205
>> >> laptop. FYI, the battery of my wife's laptop was still at 74% after the
>> >> whole two legs of our holiday, a total of 20 days.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance for any and all responses.
>> >>
>> >> [1]
>> >> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/g...reg_R1002_USEN
>> >>
>> >> [2] To be fair, when using the calibration procedure, the settings are
>> >> such that the display does not turn off and the computer does not go to
>> >> sleep, but the 'hidden' advanced settings are still set to turn off the
>> >> hard disk after 10 minutes (and I did not really *use* the laptop most
>> >> of the (discharge) time) and there are other hidden advanced settings
>> >> set to preserve the battery.

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Ben Myers <> wrote:
>> If not a bad battery, maybe a defective system? This sort of battery
>> discharge is highly irregular... Ben Myers
>
> But if the system is defective, then why does it run on battery for
> three and a half hours?
>
> BTW, is it safe to remove/insert the battery when the computer is on
> mains power but sleeping (i.e. with the lid closed)? I ask because then
> I could remove the battery to see if it discharges outside the laptop
> and still insert/remove it when I have to move the laptop inside my
> house.
>
>> On 07 Oct 2007 15:13:20 GMT, Frank Slootweg <> wrote:
>>
>>> Please?
>>>
>>> No-one with any explanation/recommendation?
>>>
>>> A week ago, I wrote:
>>>> [NEW HP Pavilion dv6570[ed] Notebook (with Windows Vista Home Premium
>>>> Edition).]
>>>>
>>>> After a recent two-step (away-home-away-home) holiday, I encountered a
>>>> very strange scenario with my new laptop:
>>>>
>>>> - Before going away, I shut down the laptop and removed the DC adapter.
>>>>
>>>> - When I returned after only 7 days, the battery had discharged to 35%.
>>>>
>>>> - I recharged the battery, shut down the laptop, removed the DC adapter
>>>> and went on the second leg of my holiday.
>>>>
>>>> - When I returned after only 11 days, the battery was completely dead,
>>>> i.e. the laptop would not power up while on battery.
>>>>
>>>> OK, bad battery, I thought. But reading the Help and Support, I saw
>>>> the battery calibration procedure (similar to that at [1]) and thought
>>>> let's try that.
>>>>
>>>> To my suprsise, the laptop worked for over three and a half hours
>>>> (19:10-22:50) on the battery, which is IMO not at all bad and IMO no
>>>> indication of a bad battery [2].
>>>>
>>>> Do you have any explanation for this strange behaviour, i.e. very
>>>> quick discharge when *not* used, while lasting rather long when used?
>>>>
>>>> Any other recommendations? This problem is hard to troubleshoot
>>>> because in order to test any changes, I have to refrain from using the
>>>> laptop for extended periods, which I of course do not want to do. The
>>>> only workaround I can think of is to remove the battery (and use the
>>>> laptop on AC/mains power) and see whether it discharges then.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I have never seen such a quick discharge when not used. Not with
>>>> my (now dead) OmniBook vt6200 and not with my wife's HP Pavilion dv4205
>>>> laptop. FYI, the battery of my wife's laptop was still at 74% after the
>>>> whole two legs of our holiday, a total of 20 days.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any and all responses.
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/g...reg_R1002_USEN
>>>>
>>>> [2] To be fair, when using the calibration procedure, the settings are
>>>> such that the display does not turn off and the computer does not go to
>>>> sleep, but the 'hidden' advanced settings are still set to turn off the
>>>> hard disk after 10 minutes (and I did not really *use* the laptop most
>>>> of the (discharge) time) and there are other hidden advanced settings
>>>> set to preserve the battery.

Not a laptop expert, but...

- Did you leave the network cable attached? Many NICs now
support Wake On LAN, and it's possible some other device on
the network caused your system to wake up without you knowing
it. If the system is in standby or sleep mode, consider
removing the network cable.

- Did you leave the system in sleep, hibernate, or powered down?
The latter two should not require any power (but the battery will
slowly discharge). "sleep" or "standby" do use power, although
much less than when operating, to maintain the system state. If
the system is draining the battery unusually quickly in standby
mode, it could be a HW problem, or perhaps even Windows not quite
"getting it right".

- I am not aware of a danger with removing a battery when a laptop
system is on AC power, but you should check your documentation.
That said, I'm sure it's OK to power the system down and then
remove the battery. You can run periodic tests to see how it
maintains the charge, while running the system on AC power sans
battery.

I hope this helps,


thomas.

thomas rush <> wrote:
[...]

> Not a laptop expert, but...
>
> - Did you leave the network cable attached? Many NICs now
> support Wake On LAN, and it's possible some other device on
> the network caused your system to wake up without you knowing
> it. If the system is in standby or sleep mode, consider
> removing the network cable.

I don't use the hardwired LAN, so have no cable connected. However I
do have a wireless LAN, so I could imagine that theoretically there
could be a Wake On LAN feature for that. However, when the system is
shutdown (see second point) or even just sleeping, the wireless LAN LED
is off (i.e. neither blue (on) or orange (off)), so I can't see how it
can wake when it's off, but who knows.

Anyway, if/when I manage to get into the BIOS settings (the startup
messages are rather/too fast to see which key to press to get into the
BIOS), I'll check for any Wake On LAN settings there.

> - Did you leave the system in sleep, hibernate, or powered down?
> The latter two should not require any power (but the battery will
> slowly discharge). "sleep" or "standby" do use power, although
> much less than when operating, to maintain the system state. If
> the system is draining the battery unusually quickly in standby
> mode, it could be a HW problem, or perhaps even Windows not quite
> "getting it right".

I left it powered down, i.e. "Shut Down" in Windows terminology, i.e.
it *should* not use any power. As I wrote, other laptops (like my
wife's) survived the same periods without any substantial discharge.

> - I am not aware of a danger with removing a battery when a laptop
> system is on AC power, but you should check your documentation.
> That said, I'm sure it's OK to power the system down and then
> remove the battery. You can run periodic tests to see how it
> maintains the charge, while running the system on AC power sans
> battery.

Yeah, probably better safe than sorry. A little while ago a removed
the battery while the system was sleeping, but on AC power. When I need
to insert it again, I'll shut/power it down first. More effort, but
probably worth it.

> I hope this helps,

It sure does. I had thought about other settings (like Wake On LAN and
USB and PCI Express power settings), but thought "(Power) Off is off",
but your response causes me to rethink that. Thanks.

A little earlier, I wrote (amongst others):
[...]

> Anyway, if/when I manage to get into the BIOS settings (the startup
> messages are rather/too fast to see which key to press to get into the
> BIOS), I'll check for any Wake On LAN settings there.

I found the User Guides which are on the laptop itself. That said that
pressing f10 at powerup/reboot gets you into the (Phoenix BIOS) Setup
Utility.

The Setup Utility -> System Configuration -> Boot Options only lists
"Internal Network Adapter Boot" and that was set to Disabled (other
choice is Enabled), i.e. no Wake On LAN setting or anything like that.
(BTW, this is a very simple BIOS, i.e. it only has a few settings!)

[...]

> > - I am not aware of a danger with removing a battery when a laptop
> > system is on AC power, but you should check your documentation.
> > That said, I'm sure it's OK to power the system down and then
> > remove the battery. You can run periodic tests to see how it
> > maintains the charge, while running the system on AC power sans
> > battery.
>
> Yeah, probably better safe than sorry. A little while ago a removed
> the battery while the system was sleeping, but on AC power. When I need
> to insert it again, I'll shut/power it down first. More effort, but
> probably worth it.

It's probably safe to *remove* the battery while the computer is
sleeping but on AC power, because the User Guides says this:

<quote>

CAUTION: Removing a battery that is the sole power source can cause loss
of information. To prevent loss of information, initiate Hibernation or
shut down the computer through Windows before removing the battery.

</quote>

I.e. it only talks about potential data loss, not that you shouldn't
do it period.

However it doesn't say anything about *inserting* the battery while
the computer is sleeping but on AC power, so I might as well shut/power
it down before removal and insertion.

BTW, the User Guides also says this:

<quote>

If a computer will be unused and unplugged from external power for more
than 2 weeks, remove the battery and store it separately.

</quote>

While this is probably just a CYA/COA remark and my battery didn't
even last 11 days, the "2 weeks" is still noteworthy.

Somewhere else it also says:

<quote>

Charging may take longer if a battery is new, has been unused for 2
weeks or more, ...
[...]
* If the battery has been unused for one month or more, calibrate the
battery instead of simply charging it.

</quote>

So apparently a quick discharge of a battery when the system is
shut/powered down is not *all* that uncommon.

Newsflash: I think/am_quite_sure I solved the mystery!

A little earlier, I wrote:
[...]

> I found the User Guides which are on the laptop itself.

I browsed the User Guide some more and then found a section talking
about "Multi Media" and "Remote Control"! Bingo!

This laptop [1] has a Remote Control [2] (like a TV has) and guess
what, the Remote Control has a Power button which, amongst others [3],
has the following function:

<quote>

* When the computer is off, press the button to start Windows.

</quote>

Note "off"! And indeed, when the computer is *off*, i.e. after a
shut/power down, you can use the Power button of the Remote Control to
*power*/boot it up, even (tested) while on battery (and not connected
to AC power)!

So in TV-like terminology, even if the computer is shut/powered down,
it is still partially in stand-by mode, so you can use the Remote
Control to power/boot it up. This partial stand-by mode *must* consume
some power and is probably responsible for the (previously) unexplained
quick discharge of the battery.

It sure would have been be nice if the User Guides specifically
mentioned/ warned_for this, but I'm sure I've found the cause of the
'problem'.

[1]

> [NEW HP Pavilion dv6570[ed] Notebook (with Windows Vista Home Premium
> Edition).]

[2] In my defense (if needed), I had never used the Remote Control. It
was still sitting in the box and even the battery had not yet been
inserted.

[3] FYI, these are the other functions of the Power button on the Remote
Control:

<quote>

* When the computer is on, press the button to emulate the computer
power button. Refer to the computer user guide for information.

* When the computer is in the Sleep state, briefly press the button to
exit Sleep.

* When the computer is in Hibernation, briefly press the button to
exit Hibernation.

</quote>

HP apparently uses a different definition of "off". Bill Clinton had his own
personal definition of "is", too. Ever since the introduction of the ATX power
specification, no personal computer is truly off unless it is detached from the
mains electricity and its battery removed.

You are 1000% correct. An option like the remote control circuit which sucks
the battery dry should be highlighted (bold face and all caps, too) in the
customer manual... Ben Myers

On 08 Oct 2007 19:17:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg <> wrote:

>Newsflash: I think/am_quite_sure I solved the mystery!
>
>A little earlier, I wrote:
>[...]
>
>> I found the User Guides which are on the laptop itself.
>
> I browsed the User Guide some more and then found a section talking
>about "Multi Media" and "Remote Control"! Bingo!
>
> This laptop [1] has a Remote Control [2] (like a TV has) and guess
>what, the Remote Control has a Power button which, amongst others [3],
>has the following function:
>
><quote>
>
>* When the computer is off, press the button to start Windows.
>
></quote>
>
> Note "off"! And indeed, when the computer is *off*, i.e. after a
>shut/power down, you can use the Power button of the Remote Control to
>*power*/boot it up, even (tested) while on battery (and not connected
>to AC power)!
>
> So in TV-like terminology, even if the computer is shut/powered down,
>it is still partially in stand-by mode, so you can use the Remote
>Control to power/boot it up. This partial stand-by mode *must* consume
>some power and is probably responsible for the (previously) unexplained
>quick discharge of the battery.
>
> It sure would have been be nice if the User Guides specifically
>mentioned/ warned_for this, but I'm sure I've found the cause of the
>'problem'.
>
>[1]
>
>> [NEW HP Pavilion dv6570[ed] Notebook (with Windows Vista Home Premium
>> Edition).]
>
>[2] In my defense (if needed), I had never used the Remote Control. It
>was still sitting in the box and even the battery had not yet been
>inserted.
>
>[3] FYI, these are the other functions of the Power button on the Remote
>Control:
>
><quote>
>
>* When the computer is on, press the button to emulate the computer
> power button. Refer to the computer user guide for information.
>
>* When the computer is in the Sleep state, briefly press the button to
> exit Sleep.
>
>* When the computer is in Hibernation, briefly press the button to
> exit Hibernation.
>
></quote>