Blown Video Card

This is primarily for Stew Lewis and Tom Scales...running back the clock a
bit, I posted about what a sluggish (to put it mildly) computer my Dimension
8300 has been from day one. As was mentioned then, this should definitely
not be the case. The system was built to be a screamer in most every regard.

Ever since it was new, the video card (some nVidia based thing...I don't
remember which one, but it was not a high end card) had a tendency to "spin
out", especially when going into text modes after requesting a full screen
command prompt or something. Programs that made use of VGA or lower modes
also tended to cause problems.

Well, finally, the card got bad enough that it was producing barely
noticeable visual errors. Shortly after that (a few days) it got so bad that
the system was locking up and showing very noticeable drawing errors. I
pulled the video card and found three of five capacitors exploded on it. Two
were near the GPU heatsink and one was clear over by the analog monitor
connector.

So I went to Best Buy and found the ATI Radeon X1600 on clearance, got one,
took it home and popped it in. Although the box says "Windows XP" or
"Windows Vista", it runs acceptably under Windows 2000. (I don't want to
upgrade, before you ask.) The display control panel complains that the
driver is "too old" and should be upgraded, but it works fine for my needs
and all settings seem to be completely functional. I didn't install ATI's
supporting software, as it would not let me deselect the .NET framework
(which I won't install), so I'm making do with what the video drivers
themselves are capable of providing.

Anyway...here's the part where this becomes relevant. I'm not sure if the
nVidia card was bad from day one, but suddenly the system is a *lot*
snappier (and not just in the graphics department) than it ever was with the
old card in place. It still doesn't really perform like I think it should,
but the difference is almost night and day. Oddly enough, the ATI TV Wonder
card in this system produced a better looking picture when it played through
the nVidia board.

Now to see if I can figure out what else might be dragging things down...

William

Well, an 8300 is definetly a screamer, especially when you see the
cost of a memory upgrade

Seriously, I have definetly seen the swollen caps in nVidia cards on
Dimension 4600's. I've also seen video-card fans spin completely off
their mount and fall apart on the card, but the swollen caps issue is
a bit more common. I am betting that nVidia used the same capacitors
as the Dell Optiplex GX-270's, which have a near-100% failure rate due
to thermal failures from the swollen caps.

I am glad things worked out for you. In the future, you can diagnose
hardware issues with the Dell Resource CD...simply press F12 on
startup, place ResourceCD in, boot from CD drive, select 32-bit
diagnostics and do a "custom test" on the video card, mobo, CPU and
memory (memory will take the longest). But those four will usually
find a "slow computer" hardware issue.

Even out of warranty you can usually order a new set of CD's for your
computer and Dell will send them, including the resource CD. They
also come with every mobo from Dell so you can ask the field tech if
you can keep the CD that was sent with the mobo (he gets dozens of
these every month so he shouldnt make a big stink). 1-800-624-9896

Dan

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:48:21 GMT, "William R. Walsh"
< m> wrote:

>This is primarily for Stew Lewis and Tom Scales...running back the clock a
>bit, I posted about what a sluggish (to put it mildly) computer my Dimension
>8300 has been from day one. As was mentioned then, this should definitely
>not be the case. The system was built to be a screamer in most every regard.
>
>Ever since it was new, the video card (some nVidia based thing...I don't
>remember which one, but it was not a high end card) had a tendency to "spin
>out", especially when going into text modes after requesting a full screen
>command prompt or something. Programs that made use of VGA or lower modes
>also tended to cause problems.
>
>Well, finally, the card got bad enough that it was producing barely
>noticeable visual errors. Shortly after that (a few days) it got so bad that
>the system was locking up and showing very noticeable drawing errors. I
>pulled the video card and found three of five capacitors exploded on it. Two
>were near the GPU heatsink and one was clear over by the analog monitor
>connector.

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:48:21 GMT, "William R. Walsh"
< m> wrote:

>This is primarily for Stew Lewis and Tom Scales...running back the clock a
>bit, I posted about what a sluggish (to put it mildly) computer my Dimension
>8300 has been from day one. As was mentioned then, this should definitely
>not be the case. The system was built to be a screamer in most every regard.
>
>Ever since it was new, the video card (some nVidia based thing...I don't
>remember which one, but it was not a high end card) had a tendency to "spin
>out", especially when going into text modes after requesting a full screen
>command prompt or something. Programs that made use of VGA or lower modes
>also tended to cause problems.
>
>Well, finally, the card got bad enough that it was producing barely
>noticeable visual errors. Shortly after that (a few days) it got so bad that
>the system was locking up and showing very noticeable drawing errors. I
>pulled the video card and found three of five capacitors exploded on it. Two
>were near the GPU heatsink and one was clear over by the analog monitor
>connector.
>
>So I went to Best Buy and found the ATI Radeon X1600 on clearance, got one,
>took it home and popped it in. Although the box says "Windows XP" or
>"Windows Vista", it runs acceptably under Windows 2000. (I don't want to
>upgrade, before you ask.) The display control panel complains that the
>driver is "too old" and should be upgraded, but it works fine for my needs
>and all settings seem to be completely functional. I didn't install ATI's
>supporting software, as it would not let me deselect the .NET framework
>(which I won't install), so I'm making do with what the video drivers
>themselves are capable of providing.
>
>Anyway...here's the part where this becomes relevant. I'm not sure if the
>nVidia card was bad from day one, but suddenly the system is a *lot*
>snappier (and not just in the graphics department) than it ever was with the
>old card in place. It still doesn't really perform like I think it should,
>but the difference is almost night and day. Oddly enough, the ATI TV Wonder
>card in this system produced a better looking picture when it played through
>the nVidia board.
>

Excuse me for butting in but I'm confused. Did you remove the new
card and put the old one back in and then notice the pc performing a
lot better or are you saying with the new card installed, it is
performing a lot better??

Again excuse me for butting in but I was just trying to follow your
post.

"Dan" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Well, an 8300 is definetly a screamer, especially when you see the
> cost of a memory upgrade
>


Just bought a second gig of RAM for mine (used) off ebay for around $60
(PC3200).

Compare the cost of a RAM upgrade for a Dimension 8200.

<RnR> wrote in message news:...
> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:48:21 GMT, "William R. Walsh"
> < m> wrote:
>
>>This is primarily for Stew Lewis and Tom Scales...running back the clock a
>>bit, I posted about what a sluggish (to put it mildly) computer my
>>Dimension
>>8300 has been from day one. As was mentioned then, this should definitely
>>not be the case. The system was built to be a screamer in most every
>>regard.
>>
>>Ever since it was new, the video card (some nVidia based thing...I don't
>>remember which one, but it was not a high end card) had a tendency to
>>"spin
>>out", especially when going into text modes after requesting a full screen
>>command prompt or something. Programs that made use of VGA or lower modes
>>also tended to cause problems.
>>
>>Well, finally, the card got bad enough that it was producing barely
>>noticeable visual errors. Shortly after that (a few days) it got so bad
>>that
>>the system was locking up and showing very noticeable drawing errors. I
>>pulled the video card and found three of five capacitors exploded on it.
>>Two
>>were near the GPU heatsink and one was clear over by the analog monitor
>>connector.
>>
>>So I went to Best Buy and found the ATI Radeon X1600 on clearance, got
>>one,
>>took it home and popped it in. Although the box says "Windows XP" or
>>"Windows Vista", it runs acceptably under Windows 2000. (I don't want to
>>upgrade, before you ask.) The display control panel complains that the
>>driver is "too old" and should be upgraded, but it works fine for my needs
>>and all settings seem to be completely functional. I didn't install ATI's
>>supporting software, as it would not let me deselect the .NET framework
>>(which I won't install), so I'm making do with what the video drivers
>>themselves are capable of providing.
>>
>>Anyway...here's the part where this becomes relevant. I'm not sure if the
>>nVidia card was bad from day one, but suddenly the system is a *lot*
>>snappier (and not just in the graphics department) than it ever was with
>>the
>>old card in place. It still doesn't really perform like I think it should,
>>but the difference is almost night and day. Oddly enough, the ATI TV
>>Wonder
>>card in this system produced a better looking picture when it played
>>through
>>the nVidia board.
>>
>
> Excuse me for butting in but I'm confused. Did you remove the new
> card and put the old one back in and then notice the pc performing a
> lot better or are you saying with the new card installed, it is
> performing a lot better??
>
> Again excuse me for butting in but I was just trying to follow your
> post.


He's saying the old card had leaky capacitors and that the new card seems to
have helped system performance a great deal.

Hi!

> Excuse me for butting in but I'm confused.

No problem. You're as welcome as anyone else is to respond, it's Usenet
after all. :-)

I removed the old card as it was damaged. Capacitors had exploded on it.
They could probably be replaced, but who knows what damage has taken place
at this point. Besides, I have plans for the heatsink!

With the new card installed, the computer is performing a lot better.

William

One of the two video cards in my E510 started making noise. At first
it was bearable but then it became louder. Turns out the fan is
making all of the noise.

It looks like a pretty good card too (Radeon 9250 w 256M, dual monitor
and TV out). I just took it out because I am using the extra monitors
on the XPS 410. I don't see how I could easily replace the fan. I'll
donate it to this place that assembles PCs for people with
disabilities and let them worry about it.

Hi!

> One of the two video cards in my E510 started
> making noise.

> It looks like a pretty good card too (Radeon 9250
> w 256M, dual monitor and TV out).

Oh, does this sound familiar! Unfortunately...I put a Radeon 9800 Mac
Edition into a Power Mac G4 Quicksilver. While it worked, it was a
great card. Then the fan started making noise.

The fan itself has screws that go into the heatsink. If you spin the
blades, you can see them. With a small enough screwdriver, you can
remove the fan and replace it (good luck!) or give the bearings a very
small shot of oil.

I must not have gotten there in time, as the DVI output started
producing garbage video. I know it wasn't due to static discharge or
careless handling of the card while it was out.

What I have such a problem with is the short lifetime of these modern
video cards. I have countless old video cards (PCI, VL, MCA, EISA,
NuBus, etc...) that are in daily use and still going strong. Meanwhile
I have seen many AGP cards just up and die in all sorts of interesting
ways. Some even took the motherboard with them. :-(

Perhaps the theory is that no one will run a video card for more than
a year or two before replacing it?

William

One or two year life is one explanation. Here is another.

Respectable motherboard manufacturers (Intel, Asus, Gigabyte, SuperMicro, maybe
others) tend to produce pretty good designs that deal well with heat and high
processor wattage.

The companies that crank out video cards are less capable or maybe driven too
much to produce cheap rather than quality. They often take the chip
manufacturer's (ATI or nVidia these days) reference design and produce it with
low quality components, in particular capacitors and fans. Add to this the fact
that but ATI and nVidia chips consume high wattage and generate a lot of heat.
Now combine all this with the board slot space occupied by an AGP or PCI-E card.
Especially if there is a card next to it, the video card's cooling fan does not
get enough airflow. Now operate these computers in your typical dusty dirty
household (no central HVAC) with dogs and cats shedding, and you have a prefect
recipe for failure.

How to mitigate graphics card failure?
1. Install no card in the slot next to the graphics card.
2. Clean out the dust and dirt from inside the chassis as often as needed. Open
up the chassis every 90 days and inspect... Ben Myers

On 7 Apr 2007 07:12:28 -0700, wrote:

>Hi!
>
>> One of the two video cards in my E510 started
>> making noise.
>
>> It looks like a pretty good card too (Radeon 9250
>> w 256M, dual monitor and TV out).
>
>Oh, does this sound familiar! Unfortunately...I put a Radeon 9800 Mac
>Edition into a Power Mac G4 Quicksilver. While it worked, it was a
>great card. Then the fan started making noise.
>
>The fan itself has screws that go into the heatsink. If you spin the
>blades, you can see them. With a small enough screwdriver, you can
>remove the fan and replace it (good luck!) or give the bearings a very
>small shot of oil.
>
>I must not have gotten there in time, as the DVI output started
>producing garbage video. I know it wasn't due to static discharge or
>careless handling of the card while it was out.
>
>What I have such a problem with is the short lifetime of these modern
>video cards. I have countless old video cards (PCI, VL, MCA, EISA,
>NuBus, etc...) that are in daily use and still going strong. Meanwhile
>I have seen many AGP cards just up and die in all sorts of interesting
>ways. Some even took the motherboard with them. :-(
>
>Perhaps the theory is that no one will run a video card for more than
>a year or two before replacing it?
>
>William

Hi!

> One or two year life is one explanation. Here is another.

> Respectable motherboard manufacturers

When I've been buying video cards, I've stayed away from most of the "cheap"
third-party assembled units for that reason. The cards I've been buying are
retail boxed ATI and nVidia boards.

In addition to the ATI X1600 that I recently purchased, I also bought a
nVidia 6200 (?) based card sold/assembled by EVGA. It is so far the coolest
running card I've ever seen. The heatsink on the graphics processor does get
hot when the card is really working, but most of the time it is very cool to
the touch. The ATI board runs hot and at least one capacitor is near the fan
exhaust. (Why is this considered acceptable?)

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say the EVGA card will last
longer. I'd hope to be wrong, as it is definitely the "cheap" card by at
least $60.

I would leave the slot next to the video card empty if I could, but that's
not usually an option in my systems. I tend to use my expansion slots rather
heavily.

I do clean my systems out with compressed air, usually about four times per
year. There's something very satisfying about taking them outside and
watching the built up dust go flying! I also make sure to do laptop fans and
heatsinks as well.

William