Blue Pill, TPM avoidance

"OSbandito" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Beginner planning to put together a new sys. Had been expecting to use
> AMD64 single-core w/ASUS mb but since learning of the Blue Pill hazard
> with processors using hardware virtualization (I think "VMM" refers to
> this), I'm thinking of going to an older processor design and an ASUS
> board which does not have TPM or DRM chips. These appear to have the
> potential for massive intrusiveness. My question is: what's a good,
> stable ASUS board to use with a low-wattage Athlon 32-bit processor and
> one of the Linux/BSD variants?
>
> ~Thanks
>
>
Sounds like you need to pop a few blue pills yourself to take these strange
ideas out of your head. The only way to keep your computer secure is to stay
the hell away from the internet. Come to think of it that may be the way for
you to go.

Beginner planning to put together a new sys. Had been expecting to use
AMD64 single-core w/ASUS mb but since learning of the Blue Pill hazard
with processors using hardware virtualization (I think "VMM" refers to
this), I'm thinking of going to an older processor design and an ASUS
board which does not have TPM or DRM chips. These appear to have the
potential for massive intrusiveness. My question is: what's a good,
stable ASUS board to use with a low-wattage Athlon 32-bit processor and
one of the Linux/BSD variants?

~Thanks

OSbandito <> wrote in news::

> Beginner planning to put together a new sys. Had been expecting to use
> AMD64 single-core w/ASUS mb but since learning of the Blue Pill hazard
> with processors using hardware virtualization (I think "VMM" refers to
> this), I'm thinking of going to an older processor design and an ASUS
> board which does not have TPM or DRM chips. These appear to have the
> potential for massive intrusiveness. My question is: what's a good,
> stable ASUS board to use with a low-wattage Athlon 32-bit processor and
> one of the Linux/BSD variants?

Put on your tinfoil hat and turn off the virtualization feature in your
BIOS.

--
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atnyylbhesevraqfsrryfbthvyglnobhggurveplavpvfznaqg urerfgbsgurvetrareng
vbaabgriragurtbireazragnertbaanfgbclbhabjohgnerlbh ernqlgborurnegoebxra

On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:38:32 -0500, OSbandito <>
wrote:

>Beginner planning to put together a new sys. Had been expecting to use
>AMD64 single-core w/ASUS mb but since learning of the Blue Pill hazard
>with processors using hardware virtualization (I think "VMM" refers to
>this), I'm thinking of going to an older processor design and an ASUS
>board which does not have TPM or DRM chips. These appear to have the
>potential for massive intrusiveness. My question is: what's a good,
>stable ASUS board to use with a low-wattage Athlon 32-bit processor and
>one of the Linux/BSD variants?
>
>~Thanks

Do you sleep with a gun under your pillow and have all your savings in
gold bars hidden under your floorboards ?

John Lewis

Can't afford the gold bars, but the guns real.

--
Zyp
"John Lewis" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:38:32 -0500, OSbandito <>
> wrote:
>
> >Beginner planning to put together a new sys. Had been expecting to use
> >AMD64 single-core w/ASUS mb but since learning of the Blue Pill hazard
> >with processors using hardware virtualization (I think "VMM" refers to
> >this), I'm thinking of going to an older processor design and an ASUS
> >board which does not have TPM or DRM chips. These appear to have the
> >potential for massive intrusiveness. My question is: what's a good,
> >stable ASUS board to use with a low-wattage Athlon 32-bit processor and
> >one of the Linux/BSD variants?
> >
> >~Thanks
>
> Do you sleep with a gun under your pillow and have all your savings in
> gold bars hidden under your floorboards ?
>
> John Lewis
>

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies and the technical information I requested.

In article <>, OSbandito
<> wrote:

********
> Beginner planning to put together a new sys. Had been expecting to use
> AMD64 single-core w/ASUS mb but since learning of the Blue Pill hazard
> with processors using hardware virtualization (I think "VMM" refers to
> this), I'm thinking of going to an older processor design and an ASUS
> board which does not have TPM or DRM chips. These appear to have the
> potential for massive intrusiveness. My question is: what's a good,
> stable ASUS board to use with a low-wattage Athlon 32-bit processor and
> one of the Linux/BSD variants?
>
> ~Thanks
********
> Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies and the technical information
> I requested.
********

The trustedcomputinggroup web site first appears on the archive
in April 2003. On the website itself, it doesn't state when they
started work on their project.

http://web.archive.org/*/http://www....tinggroup.org/

https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/groups/tpm/

Their "articles of incorporation" document here, is dated Dec 2002.
Which means any hardware made before Apr 2003 stands a good chance
of not having any of this technology.

https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.or...orporation.pdf

There is a FAQ here, and they make it seem like a separate
TPM chip on the motherboard is the only implementation
method. Yet I've heard that the chipset itself could have
such a feature, and it is not likely to be advertised. Datasheets
for chipsets are not readily available (with the exception
of Intel, and Intel only exposes as much info in their
datasheets as they feel like).

https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/faq/TPMFAQ/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing

What that means is, it is pretty difficult to _guarantee_ that
there is not a way to implement these functions without you
knowing about it. Selecting a hardware product designed before
the requirements were known, would be one way, but does that
guarantee that there would not be a way to implement it in
the future ?

There is some other info here, if you want to read up on it.

http://www.research.ibm.com/gsal/tcpa/tcpa_rebuttal.pdf

http://www.13t.org/wintah/miscelanea...20Security.txt

Virtualization is a separate issue, and a way to run multiple
OSes on a computer at the same time, without the OSes being
aware of one another. For AMD, this is called Pacifica, and
for Intel Vanterpool. While virtualization will open up
security holes, I don't think it has the same issues from
a user perspective, that a Trusted Computing Platform presents.
(A trusted computing platform can be used or abused, in
the same way that nuclear power can generate electricity
or can be used to build bombs.)

To answer your question, you asked about Athlon, which to
me implies something like AthlonXP Socket 462 32 bit
processors. Motherboard availability would be limited,
in terms of finding quality products. You may find products,
but some will be DOA and some won't last as long as you
would like. My personal preference would be for an Nforce2
chipset motherboard (I have an A7N8X-E Deluxe I like), but
you are not going to find that particular one on a store shelf.
Production of S462 chipsets has likely stopped some time
ago, and that is one reason that motherboards would
cease production, as well as the marketing department
stopping production as there are few processors available
to drive demand for motherboard products.

If I had to choose, I'd probably go with the Epox EP-8RDA3+
PRO Socket A shown here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=&srchInDesc=

There are still some Semprons available here for S462:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=&srchInDesc=

If using an Nforce2 chipset, I recommend booting with "noapic"
option. That is what I use when booting my A7N8X-E with Knoppix.

HTH,
Paul