Built-in Card Readers can only be revived by a reboot?

On my HP Pavilion A1630N, the built in card readers disappear after a
memory card has been used and then removed. Part of the "safely
remove" process not only allows you to remove your camera's memory
card, it also removes all of the built-in card readers. If I reinsert
a memory card, it is not recognized. If I reboot the computer, the
four icons for the card readers reappear and can be used again...until
I go through the "safely remove" process again.

I'd like the card readers to stick around all the time, the way a USB
port does. In the past I have used an external USB card reader(a
pseudo-thumb drive where the camera's memory chip inserts inside the
reader) which plugs into the computer's USB port. When I safely
remove the external card reader, I can immediately plug it back in and
the computer will recognize it again, ie no need to reboot the
computer.

Can someone explain why the built-in card readers behave differently
than a plug-in thumb drive? Thanks in advance.

Danny in Yorktown, VA

To me, this behavior sounds like either a hardware defect or a software bug.
What you have described is NOT the way an internal card reader is supposed to
work.

I have an older rock-solid SCSI card reader, and it does not behave the way your
reader does... Ben Myers

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 06:05:48 -0800, Danny <> wrote:

>On my HP Pavilion A1630N, the built in card readers disappear after a
>memory card has been used and then removed. Part of the "safely
>remove" process not only allows you to remove your camera's memory
>card, it also removes all of the built-in card readers. If I reinsert
>a memory card, it is not recognized. If I reboot the computer, the
>four icons for the card readers reappear and can be used again...until
>I go through the "safely remove" process again.
>
>I'd like the card readers to stick around all the time, the way a USB
>port does. In the past I have used an external USB card reader(a
>pseudo-thumb drive where the camera's memory chip inserts inside the
>reader) which plugs into the computer's USB port. When I safely
>remove the external card reader, I can immediately plug it back in and
>the computer will recognize it again, ie no need to reboot the
>computer.
>
>Can someone explain why the built-in card readers behave differently
>than a plug-in thumb drive? Thanks in advance.
>
>Danny in Yorktown, VA

Ben, the problem seems to be some sort of confusion between Windows XP
and HP. Here is HP's explicit directions on how to remove a memory
card that has been built in to the reader (Note: when instructions say
click on eject, the only option is to stop the device, which then
causes that reader, as well as all others, to disappear)

HP Directions:
Removing a memory card from the memory card reader
WARNING: Do not try to remove media when the in-use light is
blinking. Doing so may cause loss of data.

Make sure that the in-use light is on but not blinking. A steady light
indicates that the PC is not accessing the media.
Right-click the memory card icon and select Eject.
Remove the media.

Windows XP Directions:
Now I go to Device Manager and right click on the icon for the Generic
USB SD Reader USB Device under disk drives. I select properties, and
then policies. There are two choices for policies, the one selected
by default(I guess...I never made this choice) is "Optimize for quick
removal" It says that this setting disables write caching on the disk
and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without using the
Safe Removal Icon.

Grrr...for the past 8 months I have been following HP's directions
slavishly and if the Windows XP information is correct, I didn't have
to. I could have just pulled the SD card from the reader(as long as
the "in use" light was solid and not flashing) and not have messed
with the Safe Removal Icon at all.

I'm still curious as to why the drivers for the built-in card reader
behave differently than say drivers for a USB thumb/flash drive.

Danny in Yorktown, VA

On Nov 6, 9:20 am, Ben Myers <ben_myers_spam_me_...@charter.net>
wrote:
> To me, this behavior sounds like either a hardware defect or a software bug.
> What you have described is NOT the way an internal card reader is supposed to
> work.
>
> I have an older rock-solid SCSI card reader, and it does not behave the way your
> reader does... Ben Myers
>
>
>
> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 06:05:48 -0800, Danny <hokiew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On my HP Pavilion A1630N, the built in card readers disappear after a
> >memory card has been used and then removed. Part of the "safely
> >remove" process not only allows you to remove your camera's memory
> >card, it also removes all of the built-in card readers. If I reinsert
> >a memory card, it is not recognized. If I reboot the computer, the
> >four icons for the card readers reappear and can be used again...until
> >I go through the "safely remove" process again.
>
> >I'd like the card readers to stick around all the time, the way a USB
> >port does. In the past I have used an external USB card reader(a
> >pseudo-thumb drive where the camera's memory chip inserts inside the
> >reader) which plugs into the computer's USB port. When I safely
> >remove the external card reader, I can immediately plug it back in and
> >the computer will recognize it again, ie no need to reboot the
> >computer.
>
> >Can someone explain why the built-in card readers behave differently
> >than a plug-in thumb drive? Thanks in advance.
>
> >Danny in Yorktown, VA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Danny <> wrote:
> Ben, the problem seems to be some sort of confusion between Windows XP
> and HP. Here is HP's explicit directions on how to remove a memory
> card that has been built in to the reader (Note: when instructions say
> click on eject, the only option is to stop the device, which then
> causes that reader, as well as all others, to disappear)
>
> HP Directions:
> Removing a memory card from the memory card reader
> WARNING: Do not try to remove media when the in-use light is
> blinking. Doing so may cause loss of data.
>
> Make sure that the in-use light is on but not blinking. A steady light
> indicates that the PC is not accessing the media.
> Right-click the memory card icon and select Eject.
> Remove the media.

So basically there is *confusion*:

HP says to right click on the memory card icon and select Eject, but
that's not there (or you couldn't find it) and *instead* you click
Safely Remove Hardware and then Stop. I.e. *different* icons and
*different* buttons. No wonder you got a different result! :-)

[...]

> I'm still curious as to why the drivers for the built-in card reader
> behave differently than say drivers for a USB thumb/flash drive.

Because with the built-in card reader you remove the memory card -
i.e. the media - but *not* the card reader - i.e. the 'drive' - itself.
With an external card reader or USB thumb/flash drive, if you unplug the
USB connection, you remove the media *and* the 'drive'.

An analogy: Consider a (built-in) CD drive. If you remove the CD -
i.e. the media -, you do just that, i.e. you don't do a Safely Remove
Hardware of the *drive*. But with an external CD drive, if you unplug
the USB connection of the drive, you should do a Safely Remove Hardware,
because you remove the media *and* the 'drive'.

Where all of these comparisons fail, is that while this is a
*built-in* card reader, it *is* visible in Safely Remove Hardware and
*can* be Stop-ped. I.e. - as you found out - it normally *should not* be
Stop-ped, but it *can* be Stop-ped. Ain't computers fun!? :-)

FWIW, the built-in card reader in my HP Pavilion dv6570 notebook is
similar, i.e. visible in Safely Remove Hardware and *can* be Stop-ped
but *should not* be Stop-ped.

Perhaps I will have a look at what the documentation of my notebook
says.

Danny wrote:

> On my HP Pavilion A1630N, the built in card readers disappear after a
> memory card has been used and then removed. Part of the "safely
> remove" process not only allows you to remove your camera's memory
> card, it also removes all of the built-in card readers. If I reinsert
> a memory card, it is not recognized. If I reboot the computer, the
> four icons for the card readers reappear and can be used again...until
> I go through the "safely remove" process again.
>
> I'd like the card readers to stick around all the time, the way a USB
> port does. In the past I have used an external USB card reader(a
> pseudo-thumb drive where the camera's memory chip inserts inside the
> reader) which plugs into the computer's USB port. When I safely
> remove the external card reader, I can immediately plug it back in and
> the computer will recognize it again, ie no need to reboot the
> computer.
>
> Can someone explain why the built-in card readers behave differently
> than a plug-in thumb drive? Thanks in advance.
>
> Danny in Yorktown, VA

Have you tried right-clicking on the drive letter in Windows Explorer and
selecting Eject(XP) or Safe Remove (Vista)?

craigm <> wrote:
> Danny wrote:
>
> > On my HP Pavilion A1630N, the built in card readers disappear after a
> > memory card has been used and then removed. Part of the "safely
> > remove" process not only allows you to remove your camera's memory
> > card, it also removes all of the built-in card readers. If I reinsert
> > a memory card, it is not recognized. If I reboot the computer, the
> > four icons for the card readers reappear and can be used again...until
> > I go through the "safely remove" process again.
> >
> > I'd like the card readers to stick around all the time, the way a USB
> > port does. In the past I have used an external USB card reader(a
> > pseudo-thumb drive where the camera's memory chip inserts inside the
> > reader) which plugs into the computer's USB port. When I safely
> > remove the external card reader, I can immediately plug it back in and
> > the computer will recognize it again, ie no need to reboot the
> > computer.
> >
> > Can someone explain why the built-in card readers behave differently
> > than a plug-in thumb drive? Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Danny in Yorktown, VA
>
> Have you tried right-clicking on the drive letter in Windows Explorer and
> selecting Eject(XP) or Safe Remove (Vista)?

As Danny explained, that is the *problem*, not the *solution*. At
least in Vista, because, as it implies, it does the same thing as a
Safely Remove Hardware, but *without* an extra prompt, i.e. it just does
it without further asking. As said, it removes the media (i.e. what
the user wants) *and* the 'drive' (i.e. what the user does not want,
because it needs a reboot to use another memory-card).

Yesterday I wrote (amongst others):
> Perhaps I will have a look at what the documentation of my notebook
> says.

The User Guides [sic] for my HP Pavilion dv6570 notebook (with Vista)
is also wrong. It says:

<quote>

Stopping and removing a digital card

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAUTION: To prevent loss of data or an unresponsive system, stop a
digital card before removing it.

1. Save your information and close all programs associated with the
digital card.
NOTE: To stop a data transfer, click Cancel in the operating system
Copying window.

2. Stop the digital card:

a. Double-click the Safely Remove Hardware icon in the notification
area, at the far right of the taskbar.
NOTE: To display the Safely Remove Hardware icon, click the Show
Hidden Icons icon (< or <<) in the notification area.

b. Click the name of the digital card in the list.

c. Click Stop, and then click OK.

3. Remove the digital card from the slot.

</quote>

The Safely Remove Hardware -> Stop procedure is plain wrong, because,
as you and I found out, it removes the media/card (good) *and* the
drive/card-reader (bad), so a reboot is required to use another card.

A little earlier I wrote:
> Yesterday I wrote (amongst others):
> > Perhaps I will have a look at what the documentation of my notebook
> > says.
>
> The User Guides [sic] for my HP Pavilion dv6570 notebook (with Vista)
> is also wrong. It says:
[...]
> The Safely Remove Hardware -> Stop procedure is plain wrong, because,
> as you and I found out, it removes the media/card (good) *and* the
> drive/card-reader (bad), so a reboot is required to use another card.

I have to eat my words! The procedure *is* correct, just not what I
expected.

Contrary to what I wrote, Safely Remove Hardware only shows the Memory
Card and the Generic volume on that card. Because it shows two 'things',
I thought that it showed the card and the drive, but I was wrong.

Also rebooting is not required, provided you *remove and re-insert*
a/the card. I didn't do that in my test, because it thought I had lost
the drive, but the drive wasn't there in the first place.

In my defense: This computer replaces a similar one which had a
card-reader in a PCMCIA card, i.e. that card-reader *was* listed in
Safely Remove Hardware and *could* be physically removed.

Sorry for the confusion.

So apparently Danny's HP Pavilion A1630N with a card-reader with four
drive-letters is different than my HP Pavilion dv6570 notebook. Mine
only has one drive letter, which is either there (when the card is
inserted) or not there (when the card is removed. (BTW, I know the "four
drive letter" concept from an *external* USB card-reader which I have.)

Danny, can you please post the 'tree' of devices as shown by Safely
Remove Hardware before and after you remove the card?

Make sure that "Display device components" (Vista (same in XP?)) is
ticked so that all 'branches' are shown. Also tell us *which* entry you
click on before you click Stop, and what the window which you get after
clicking Stop lists (it should list all the devices which will be
removed), i.e. the window in which you will click OK.

--
Frank "Hmmm! Egg! Nice!" :-) Slootweg