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Can I make a meaningfull performance uprgrade with the old MSI 6119 motherboard with AGP video card?

 
 
Richard
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      03-10-2009, 12:00 AM
http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...2&maincat_no=1

That's my motherboard: MSI 6119

http://ati.amd.com/products/ragepro/xpert98/specs.html

Fitted with ATI 8Mb XPERT 98 2x Video Accelerator Card.

http://searchna.ati.com/promosearch/...p_f=ISO-8859-1

Search results for AGP 2x search string.

Where "AGP 2x" apppears in the results, I presume I can use any video card
associated with that search string? Is that correct?

I'm hoping that I can buy a pre-owned AGP video card that will work with my
motherboard, and significantly improve graphics performance. Just don't know
if this is possible with such an old motherboard.

My PC is Pentium II running at 350Mhz, with 256MB RAM.

I'm not a gamer. I's like to use CAD programs though.

Know little about these matters.

Thanks for your help. Rich.



 
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Richard
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      03-10-2009, 12:11 AM

"Richard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm not a gamer. I's like to use CAD programs though.


Please don't pay too much attention to the CAD comment.

Any worthwhile improvement will be usewful. At the moment I do have some
problems with certain downloads fromYouTube. Picture often just a freeze and
some steaky lines. Imagine it's my video card.

Will eventually, not too long from now will get new motherboard. But if I
can get a cheap pre-owned video card that will improve things for now, I'll
go for that.




 
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Richard
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      03-10-2009, 12:41 AM
> http://searchna.ati.com/promosearch/...p_f=ISO-8859-1
>
> Search results for AGP 2x search string.


http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ceDetails.aspx

I think that's the better page.

I take it that the MSI 6119 has AGP 2x, and that where "2x" apppears I can
more or less use the asspociated card.

But, I cannot see my card - the ATI 8MB Xpert98 AGP 2x. That originally fed
into a PCI 3D Accelerator Card (Voodoo 2).

Why cannot I see the Xpert 98 video card in that list? Rich


 
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Richard
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      03-10-2009, 12:46 AM

"Richard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> http://searchna.ati.com/promosearch/...p_f=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Search results for AGP 2x search string.

>
> http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ceDetails.aspx
>
> I think that's the better page.
>
> I take it that the MSI 6119 has AGP 2x, and that where "2x" apppears I can
> more or less use the asspociated card.
>
> But, I cannot see my card - the ATI 8MB Xpert98 AGP 2x. That originally
> fed
> into a PCI 3D Accelerator Card (Voodoo 2).
>
> Why cannot I see the Xpert 98 video card in that list? Rich


Ahh, the ATI 8MB Xpert98 uses the Rage Pro Turbo Chipset.

So, that's the second one from the top here:

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ceDetails.aspx

Going to bed, it's late, I'll try to sort it out tomorrow.


 
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Augustus
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      03-10-2009, 02:01 AM


"Richard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...2&maincat_no=1
>
> That's my motherboard: MSI 6119
>
> http://ati.amd.com/products/ragepro/xpert98/specs.html
>
> Fitted with ATI 8Mb XPERT 98 2x Video Accelerator Card.
>
> http://searchna.ati.com/promosearch/...p_f=ISO-8859-1
>
> Search results for AGP 2x search string.
>
> Where "AGP 2x" apppears in the results, I presume I can use any video card
> associated with that search string? Is that correct?
>
> I'm hoping that I can buy a pre-owned AGP video card that will work with
> my
> motherboard, and significantly improve graphics performance. Just don't
> know
> if this is possible with such an old motherboard.
>
> My PC is Pentium II running at 350Mhz, with 256MB RAM.
>
> I'm not a gamer. I's like to use CAD programs though.
>
> Know little about these matters.
>
> Thanks for your help. Rich.


A PII 350 and an ATI 8Mb card and you want better performance by going to a
AGP2X card? Surely this is not a serious post.

 
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Richard
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      03-10-2009, 08:30 PM

"Augustus" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:HRjtl.17199$PH1.5455@edtnps82...
>
>
> "Richard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...2&maincat_no=1
>>
>> That's my motherboard: MSI 6119
>>
>> http://ati.amd.com/products/ragepro/xpert98/specs.html
>>
>> Fitted with ATI 8Mb XPERT 98 2x Video Accelerator Card.
>>
>> http://searchna.ati.com/promosearch/...p_f=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Search results for AGP 2x search string.
>>
>> Where "AGP 2x" apppears in the results, I presume I can use any video
>> card
>> associated with that search string? Is that correct?
>>
>> I'm hoping that I can buy a pre-owned AGP video card that will work with
>> my
>> motherboard, and significantly improve graphics performance. Just don't
>> know
>> if this is possible with such an old motherboard.
>>
>> My PC is Pentium II running at 350Mhz, with 256MB RAM.
>>
>> I'm not a gamer. I's like to use CAD programs though.
>>
>> Know little about these matters.
>>
>> Thanks for your help. Rich.

>
> A PII 350 and an ATI 8Mb card and you want better performance by going to
> a AGP2X card? Surely this is not a serious post.


Remember I'm learing here.

"AGP1X, AGP2X, AGP4X, and AGP8X refer to the speed of data transfers on the
AGP Interface while AGP1.0, AGP2.0, and AGP3.0 refer to specific releases of
the AGP."

It seems I've got an AGP1X specification card, that's the ATI Xpert98 8MB
card, with RAGE PRO/ TURBO chipset. AGP speeds supported by this card are
2x.

The question is, is there scope for a *meaningful performance upgrade* by
getting a better grahics card?

Possibly not, but I'm asking.

My *motherboard* has AGP 66/133MHz 3.3v device support . That's AGP1.0
release and speedwise - AGP1x & AGP2x.

If I look at this table I see the better cards that will work with my
motherboard:

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ceDetails.aspx


If pretty sure the AGP socket in my MSI06119 board is fitted with a AGP 3.3V
(2X) slot. Therefore my *motherboard* support A and D only:

A: AGP 3.3V (2X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot.
D: Universal AGP (2X/4X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot.

G: AGP 3.0 (4X/8X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot (NOT SUPPORTED).

The outcome of all this is that my motherboard supports:

RAGE LT PRO
RAGE XL
RAGE 128
RAGE FURY MAXX
FIREGL 1

Okay, would there be any meaningful performance upgrade is I swopped RAGE
PRO/RAGE PRO TURBO card for say a RAGE 128 or FIREGL 1?


 
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Richard
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-10-2009, 09:43 PM

"Rene" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:49b6dcef$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Richard" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> "Augustus" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:HRjtl.17199$PH1.5455@edtnps82...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Richard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...2&maincat_no=1
>>>>
>>>> That's my motherboard: MSI 6119
>>>>
>>>> http://ati.amd.com/products/ragepro/xpert98/specs.html
>>>>
>>>> Fitted with ATI 8Mb XPERT 98 2x Video Accelerator Card.
>>>>
>>>> http://searchna.ati.com/promosearch/...p_f=ISO-8859-1
>>>>
>>>> Search results for AGP 2x search string.
>>>>
>>>> Where "AGP 2x" apppears in the results, I presume I can use any video
>>>> card
>>>> associated with that search string? Is that correct?
>>>>
>>>> I'm hoping that I can buy a pre-owned AGP video card that will work
>>>> with
>>>> my
>>>> motherboard, and significantly improve graphics performance. Just don't
>>>> know
>>>> if this is possible with such an old motherboard.
>>>>
>>>> My PC is Pentium II running at 350Mhz, with 256MB RAM.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not a gamer. I's like to use CAD programs though.
>>>>
>>>> Know little about these matters.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help. Rich.
>>>
>>> A PII 350 and an ATI 8Mb card and you want better performance by going
>>> to
>>> a AGP2X card? Surely this is not a serious post.

>>
>> Remember I'm learing here.
>>
>> "AGP1X, AGP2X, AGP4X, and AGP8X refer to the speed of data transfers on
>> the
>> AGP Interface while AGP1.0, AGP2.0, and AGP3.0 refer to specific releases
>> of
>> the AGP."
>>
>> It seems I've got an AGP1X specification card, that's the ATI Xpert98 8MB
>> card, with RAGE PRO/ TURBO chipset. AGP speeds supported by this card are
>> 2x.
>>
>> The question is, is there scope for a *meaningful performance upgrade* by
>> getting a better grahics card?
>>
>> Possibly not, but I'm asking.
>>
>> My *motherboard* has AGP 66/133MHz 3.3v device support . That's AGP1.0
>> release and speedwise - AGP1x & AGP2x.
>>
>> If I look at this table I see the better cards that will work with my
>> motherboard:
>>
>> http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ceDetails.aspx
>>
>>
>> If pretty sure the AGP socket in my MSI06119 board is fitted with a AGP
>> 3.3V
>> (2X) slot. Therefore my *motherboard* support A and D only:
>>
>> A: AGP 3.3V (2X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot.
>> D: Universal AGP (2X/4X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot.
>>
>> G: AGP 3.0 (4X/8X) graphics card in an AGP 3.3V (2X) slot (NOT
>> SUPPORTED).
>>
>> The outcome of all this is that my motherboard supports:
>>
>> RAGE LT PRO
>> RAGE XL
>> RAGE 128
>> RAGE FURY MAXX
>> FIREGL 1
>>
>> Okay, would there be any meaningful performance upgrade is I swopped RAGE
>> PRO/RAGE PRO TURBO card for say a RAGE 128 or FIREGL 1?

>
> I am normally the first to try to get as much as possible out of old stuff
> but in this case it is really not worthwhile. I am sorry. Buy a Mobo with
> everything onboard and You'll be off incredibly much better then with the
> stuff You are using now.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Rene


Yes, what you say is of no great surprise, because I'm kind of getting the
vibes, but I just need someone to, well,
confirm it. :c)


 
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Richard
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-10-2009, 09:49 PM

"Rene" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:49b6dcef$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I am normally the first to try to get as much as possible out of old stuff
> but in this case it is really not worthwhile. I am sorry. Buy a Mobo with
> everything onboard and You'll be off incredibly much better then with the
> stuff You are using now.


If you had in mind to build a PC that could work with CAD, such as
SolidWorks, would you not go for a dedicated PCIe video card? I suppose.


 
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Augustus
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      03-10-2009, 11:41 PM

>
> I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember
> that Nvidia cards up to the Geforce 6XXX series were 3.3 volt tolerant.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?
> Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=& N=2010380048
> &srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=60&OEMMark=0&Prope rtyCodeValue=696%
> 3A9639&PropertyCodeValue=3055%3A20548
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/c7ee6t
>
> One of these will probably work an provide a lot more performance than
> what you've got now.
>
> Bill


Not on a Pentium II 350 system it won't....it's a complete waste of time.
What this guy needs to do is spend some coin on a modern m/b, processor, ram
and real FireGL or Quadro video card. If it's a serious post, which I have
doubts about. These are recommended specs for Solid Works....

"The system requirements[3] for SolidWorks depend partially upon which
packages[4] or modules are installed in each customer's machine. An
oversimplification would be to say that one should have a PC with an Intel
Core2 Duo, 1.8GHz, 2GB RAM, 20GB HD, Windows XP SP2 and Microsoft Internet
Explorer 6 SP2. The supported graphics cards[5] is a topic beyond the scope
of this article."

I find it very hard to believe that anyone remotely serious about installing
or using an AutoCAD program would engage the n/g in a discussion revolving
around upgrading such a system.

 
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Richard
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Posts: n/a
 
      03-11-2009, 02:02 PM

"Bill" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:MPG.24208147b2e6505a989692@localhost...

> I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember
> that Nvidia cards up to the Geforce 6XXX series were 3.3 volt tolerant.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?
> Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=& N=2010380048
> &srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=60&OEMMark=0&Prope rtyCodeValue=696%
> 3A9639&PropertyCodeValue=3055%3A20548
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/c7ee6t
>
> One of these will probably work an provide a lot more performance than
> what you've got now.
>
> Bill


Hi. Oh, perhaps there is some mileage in a video card upgrade! :c)

I've got a AGP1.0 - 3.3V (2X) slot in my motherboard. This is NOT a
universal slot.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

"If an AGP card fits in an AGP expansion slot then they are compatible."

"The AGP connectors on the motherboard are keyed to prevent insertion of AGP
cards which would be damaged if plugged in. An AGP 3.3V motherboard
connector can only accept AGP cards which have the 3.3V slot. If you try to
insert a card without a 3.3V slot into an AGP 3.3V motherboard connector,
the card will bump into the connector key and cannot be inserted. Likewise
an AGP 1.5V motherboard connector can only accept AGP cards with the 1.5V
slot. An AGP universal motherboard connector has no keys and therefore can
accept any kind of AGP card. An AGP card with both voltage slots can be
plugged into any kind of AGP motherboard connector. If you can plug an AGP
card into an AGP motherboard connector, then neither the card nor the
motherboard will be damaged (assuming they obey the AGP specifications)."

What I have to is establish what cards fit my AGP socket.

*AGP 3.3V Motherboard*

In practice:

1 AGP 3.3v card- *Works at 3.3v*
2 AGP1.5v card - Won't fit in slot
3 Universal AGP card - *Works at 3.3v*
4 Universal 1.5v AGP3.0 card - Won't fit in slot
5 Universal AGP 3.0 card- *Works at 3.3v*

So okay cards are:

Cards that have a 3.3v slot.
Cards that have a 3.3v and a 1.5v slot.
Certain Universal Cards - but not Universal 1.5v.

Or alternatively, cards that *won't work* are:

1 Cards that won't fit in the slot.

So, really that's (basically) the criterion that establishes whether a card
will or will not work. But in practice other issues may prevent it from
working.

"One practical matter which must be considered is the fact that some of the
original AGP 1.0 motherboards do not provide enough power to operate some
newer AGP video cards reliably. For example, some of the original
motherboards using the first chipsets which supported AGP (like the Intel
440LX and 440BX) can become unstable if you install video cards which draw
lots of power through the AGP slot. The motherboards can't always supply the
necessary current for the newer video cards. So if you're adding a video
card to an AGP 1.0 motherboard then it's a good idea to install a video card
which doesn't consume very much power. "

My motherboard has 440BX chipset. So, I ought to use a card that does not
use much power.

I take it then that the multiplier itself is not so significant. I think you
may find that even some cards that are 8x will fit into an AGP3.3v AGP slot.
Of course, I think my motherboard only has speeds up to 2x.

"Unfortunately, the technical specifications for a video card rarely use
these terms properly (if at all) to describe the video card. They usually
just list the fastest AGP multipliers it supports: "8X, 4X", or "4X". From
that information and the voltage slots on a picture of the video card, you
can often figure out exactly what it is."

Okay so in figuring out which cards work we can look at the multipliers and
a picture of the card to see the slots.

Let's try it:

Here are 4x/8x cards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=AGP%204X%2f8X

SAPPHIRE 100258L 4x/8x 1.5v and 0.8v - NO GOOD - NO 3.3v

EVGA 256-A8-N401-LR GeForce 4x/8x - 3.3v and 1.5v slot - GOOD

XFX PVT44AWANG GeForce 6200 - 3.3v and 1.5v slot - GOOD

JATON 3DForce6200Twin GeForce 6200 - 3.3v and 1.5v slot - GOOD

When I say GOOD, I've not thought of the power issue, so that's
*provisionally* good..

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...ceDetails.aspx

Discounting for the moment issues like power, if I understand correct, every
board on that list that has 3.3v signalling, provisionally comes into a
catagory of compatible. True?





 
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