DVI video solution

I'm building my daughter a small form factor box with an Asus P5B-VM
microATX MB,
http://usa.asus.com/products3.aspx?l...e=Intel%20G965. I
wanted to use an Add2 PCI-E card,
https://www.prolink-usa.com/Merchant...tegory_Code=MM,
to run the LCD monitor but everything I've read says I'm barking up the
wrong tree - Can't be used with that chipset.** I started thinking about
the ADD2 solution when I was previously considering a G945 chipset board,
the P5L-VM 1394. $40+ bucks for an Add2 providing DVI out seemed a lot
better than a $100+ video board. I want to see if the G965 X3000 graphics
are reasonably good before I get serious about a video card. Daughter does
no gaming - Playstation does that. Wife and I wanted to build something that
would get her through her university years with a decent audio
system/television/computer all in a small box.
Is there another solution to this? Alternative microATX main boards? I
want to use a E6300 cpu.
I've been trying to catch up with video boards for the last month. I
bought my last one, ATI Rage Pro, six years ago. Can someone please
recommend a PCI-E video card with not less than 256 MB of video memory. I've
got 420 watts of power to play with in this box,
http://aspireusa.net/product.php?pid...1c1c60b5de55de.

** Was just reading the G965 Product Brief,
http://www.intel.com/products/chipse...prod_brief.pdf. The chipset
block diagram graphic, page 3, has a green block that says <snip> "Display
support for DID, ADD2, MEC, HDMI" </snip> Does that mean it can be used with
the Asus board?


Tom

Thomas R. wrote:
> I'm building my daughter a small form factor box with an Asus P5B-VM
> microATX MB,
> http://usa.asus.com/products3.aspx?l...e=Intel%20G965. I
> wanted to use an Add2 PCI-E card,
> https://www.prolink-usa.com/Merchant...tegory_Code=MM,
> to run the LCD monitor but everything I've read says I'm barking up the
> wrong tree - Can't be used with that chipset.** I started thinking about
> the ADD2 solution when I was previously considering a G945 chipset board,
> the P5L-VM 1394. $40+ bucks for an Add2 providing DVI out seemed a lot
> better than a $100+ video board. I want to see if the G965 X3000 graphics
> are reasonably good before I get serious about a video card. Daughter does
> no gaming - Playstation does that. Wife and I wanted to build something that
> would get her through her university years with a decent audio
> system/television/computer all in a small box.
> Is there another solution to this? Alternative microATX main boards? I
> want to use a E6300 cpu.
> I've been trying to catch up with video boards for the last month. I
> bought my last one, ATI Rage Pro, six years ago. Can someone please
> recommend a PCI-E video card with not less than 256 MB of video memory. I've
> got 420 watts of power to play with in this box,
> http://aspireusa.net/product.php?pid...1c1c60b5de55de.
>
> ** Was just reading the G965 Product Brief,
> http://www.intel.com/products/chipse...prod_brief.pdf. The chipset
> block diagram graphic, page 3, has a green block that says <snip> "Display
> support for DID, ADD2, MEC, HDMI" </snip> Does that mean it can be used with
> the Asus board?
>
>
> Tom
>

Not everyone likes that case - at least the review at the top of the page
is not encouraging.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16811144162

There are more cases here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...k=&srchInDesc=

This caee is steel. $80 after rebate. Since some of the reviewers
had trouble with the power supply, you might shop for a different
supply to use with the case.

Antec Solution Series NSK2400 Black/Silver Steel MicroATX 380W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129014

NSK2400 review
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article591-page1.html

I think with a larger, slightly more robust case, you might have
fewer problems picking hardware for it. No need for ADD2 type cards,
and you can select a video card with a nice set of connectors on it.
Nvidia and ATI video cards, support weird monitor resolutions,
either via a custom resolution dialog box, or via the use of
Powerstrip from Entechtaiwan - with Intel graphics, you don't get
to use Powerstrip, and Intel has no custom resolution dialog box.
That is only an issue if you plan on buying a 16:9/16:10 wide
LCD monitor. (Again, not that I would do that. I'm a 4:3/5:4 user.)

PCI Express cards can be found for pretty cheap. Not that I'd want
to put a $33 video card in my daughter's computer, and then waste
a couple hundred in a road trip to the uni, to repair the computer
later. Many video card fans are crap, and you should consider something
like a VF700 or a VF900 aftermarket cooler. Fanless video cards are
generally not that happy, unless a fan is blowing on them somewhere.
And you should engineer your system, so that if someone visits the
dorm and loads Doom3 on the box, it shouldn't fall over from the
stress. I have some fanless FX5200 (really low end stuff), and
I keep an 80mm fan blowing on them to keep them stable.

I think that SilentPCreview article should help you.

As for the color scheme, I don't know what your optical drives are
going to look like with that NSK2400 case.

For video card specs:

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/ (vital statistics)

Benchmarks:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphi...=531&chart=196

Xbitlabs has done many power measurements. By using their
advanced search, you can find their reviews where they have
measured video card power consumption. They don't keep all
the stats in one nice chart, as a way to collect more ad
revenue.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...wer-noise.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...r-noise_7.html

With Nvidia, the video engine of the GPU can help accelerate
movie playback, and reduce CPU utilization by 10-20%. The video
engine works best with a high GPU core clock. Another reason to
like the 7300GS. It is possible ATI is doing something similar.
(Purevideo versus AVIVO.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purevideo (article is dated, use the ref links)
http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVIVO
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2551&p=1 (bakeoff, early days)

ATI isn't quite as good at marketing. If this article was up to date,
you might know more about what they had to offer. While their AVIVO
branding is more up to date, I don't see the same level of detail
in the technical descriptions. (The AMD/ATI acquisition is a match
made in heaven. Two companies with terrible web search engines on their
web sites... I don't relish searching on either of their sites.)

http://www.ati.com/products/mobilityradeon/atirdv.pdf

You can do plenty of reading about video cards, but for most
practical desktop purposes, it makes little different which
one you sslect. Since a lot of the claims of the video card
manufacturers, have been slow to materialize from the driver
perspective, it is hard to get excited about some of this
stuff, when it takes so long to be perfected. Most people
have forgotten about it, by the time the development is
really finished. Which is why you won't find review sites
with current info on the subject.

Paul

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 05:07:49 -0500, Paul <> wrote:

>Lots of good stuff.

In addition to all the usual video card applications, you might want
to consider a new aspect: using the graphics processor unit as a
sort of math coprocessor that GREATLY boosts the processing power of
your computer. I think ATI has the lead here. Don't know what
they've done with the just released nvidia GPU's, but most of the
software available was for the advanced ATI GPUs.

http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-ATI.html

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Thomas R." <>
wrote:

> I'm building my daughter a small form factor box with an Asus P5B-VM
>microATX MB,
>http://usa.asus.com/products3.aspx?l...e=Intel%20G965. I
>wanted to use an Add2 PCI-E card,
>https://www.prolink-usa.com/Merchant...tegory_Code=MM,
>to run the LCD monitor but
>....
>Can someone please
>recommend a PCI-E video card with not less than 256 MB of video memory.

Why not just use the on-board video of the motherboard? If your
daughter does no gaming, on board video should be fine. And it's low
cost and quiet.

Terry

"Paul" <> wrote in message news:el3gie$g8$...
> Thomas R. wrote:
> > I'm building my daughter a small form factor box with an Asus P5B-VM
> > microATX MB,
> >
http://usa.asus.com/products3.aspx?l...e=Intel%20G965. I
> > wanted to use an Add2 PCI-E card,
> >
https://www.prolink-usa.com/Merchant...tegory_Code=MM,
> > to run the LCD monitor but everything I've read says I'm barking up the
> > wrong tree - Can't be used with that chipset.** I started thinking
about
> > the ADD2 solution when I was previously considering a G945 chipset
board,
> > the P5L-VM 1394. $40+ bucks for an Add2 providing DVI out seemed a lot
> > better than a $100+ video board. I want to see if the G965 X3000
graphics
> > are reasonably good before I get serious about a video card. Daughter
does
> > no gaming - Playstation does that. Wife and I wanted to build something
that
> > would get her through her university years with a decent audio
> > system/television/computer all in a small box.
> > Is there another solution to this? Alternative microATX main boards?
I
> > want to use a E6300 cpu.
> > I've been trying to catch up with video boards for the last month. I
> > bought my last one, ATI Rage Pro, six years ago. Can someone please
> > recommend a PCI-E video card with not less than 256 MB of video memory.
I've
> > got 420 watts of power to play with in this box,
> >
http://aspireusa.net/product.php?pid...1c1c60b5de55de.
> >
> > ** Was just reading the G965 Product Brief,
> > http://www.intel.com/products/chipse...prod_brief.pdf. The chipset
> > block diagram graphic, page 3, has a green block that says <snip>
"Display
> > support for DID, ADD2, MEC, HDMI" </snip> Does that mean it can be used
with
> > the Asus board?
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
>
> Not everyone likes that case - at least the review at the top of the page
> is not encouraging.
>

He's just one person.

> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16811144162
>
> There are more cases here:
>
>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...k=&srchInDesc=
>
> This caee is steel. $80 after rebate. Since some of the reviewers
> had trouble with the power supply, you might shop for a different
> supply to use with the case.
>
> Antec Solution Series NSK2400 Black/Silver Steel MicroATX 380W
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129014
>
> NSK2400 review
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article591-page1.html
>

I looked at that case and the nsk1300 and the lifestyle series cases.

> I think with a larger, slightly more robust case, you might have
> fewer problems picking hardware for it. No need for ADD2 type cards,
> and you can select a video card with a nice set of connectors on it.
> Nvidia and ATI video cards, support weird monitor resolutions,

I want to try the on board video first. I want to see if it is
sufficient for her current use. *But*, I want to use it with a flat screen
LCD monitor. That's the reason for the Add2 card. My experience with on
board video has made me cringe at the thought in the past. Intel's
description makes the current solutions sound much better especially when
they say the G965 uses up to 256MB of system memory.

> either via a custom resolution dialog box, or via the use of
> Powerstrip from Entechtaiwan - with Intel graphics, you don't get
> to use Powerstrip, and Intel has no custom resolution dialog box.
> That is only an issue if you plan on buying a 16:9/16:10 wide
> LCD monitor. (Again, not that I would do that. I'm a 4:3/5:4 user.)
>

I still use Entech Taiwan's Resource Manager to get the RAM memory freed
up in this 98se box. : )

> PCI Express cards can be found for pretty cheap. Not that I'd want
> to put a $33 video card in my daughter's computer, and then waste
> a couple hundred in a road trip to the uni, to repair the computer
> later. Many video card fans are crap, and you should consider something
> like a VF700 or a VF900 aftermarket cooler. Fanless video cards are
> generally not that happy, unless a fan is blowing on them somewhere.
> And you should engineer your system, so that if someone visits the
> dorm and loads Doom3 on the box, it shouldn't fall over from the
> stress. I have some fanless FX5200 (really low end stuff), and
> I keep an 80mm fan blowing on them to keep them stable.
>
> I think that SilentPCreview article should help you.
>
> As for the color scheme, I don't know what your optical drives are
> going to look like with that NSK2400 case.
>
> For video card specs:
>
> http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/ (vital statistics)
>
> Benchmarks:
>
>
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphi...=531&chart=196
>
> Xbitlabs has done many power measurements. By using their
> advanced search, you can find their reviews where they have
> measured video card power consumption. They don't keep all
> the stats in one nice chart, as a way to collect more ad
> revenue.
>
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...wer-noise.html
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...r-noise_7.html
>
> With Nvidia, the video engine of the GPU can help accelerate
> movie playback, and reduce CPU utilization by 10-20%. The video
> engine works best with a high GPU core clock. Another reason to
> like the 7300GS. It is possible ATI is doing something similar.
> (Purevideo versus AVIVO.)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purevideo (article is dated, use the ref
links)
> http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVIVO
> http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2551&p=1 (bakeoff, early days)
>
> ATI isn't quite as good at marketing. If this article was up to date,
> you might know more about what they had to offer. While their AVIVO
> branding is more up to date, I don't see the same level of detail
> in the technical descriptions. (The AMD/ATI acquisition is a match
> made in heaven. Two companies with terrible web search engines on their
> web sites... I don't relish searching on either of their sites.)
>
> http://www.ati.com/products/mobilityradeon/atirdv.pdf
>
> You can do plenty of reading about video cards, but for most
> practical desktop purposes, it makes little different which
> one you sslect. Since a lot of the claims of the video card
> manufacturers, have been slow to materialize from the driver
> perspective, it is hard to get excited about some of this
> stuff, when it takes so long to be perfected. Most people
> have forgotten about it, by the time the development is
> really finished. Which is why you won't find review sites
> with current info on the subject.

Thanks for all the links, Paul. Some of those sites I read already.

Tom



>
> Paul

"Terry" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 02:11:47 GMT, "Thomas R." <>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm building my daughter a small form factor box with an Asus P5B-VM
> >microATX MB,
> >http://usa.asus.com/products3.aspx?l...e=Intel%20G965.
I
> >wanted to use an Add2 PCI-E card,
>
>https://www.prolink-usa.com/Merchant...Y&Store_Code=P
C&Category_Code=MM,
> >to run the LCD monitor but
> >....
> >Can someone please
> >recommend a PCI-E video card with not less than 256 MB of video memory.
>
> Why not just use the on-board video of the motherboard? If your
> daughter does no gaming, on board video should be fine. And it's low
> cost and quiet.
>
> Terry

Perhaps I didn't express that idea very well but that is still my
intention. The Add2 card gives the computer a DVI out connector whereas the
Asus mb has only a VGA out connector.

Tom

I'm not sure that you can assume that the add2 card will work unless
Asus (or the motherboard maker) specifically and explicitly says it will
work.

Thomas R. wrote:

>
> Perhaps I didn't express that idea very well but that is still my
> intention. The Add2 card gives the computer a DVI out connector whereas the
> Asus mb has only a VGA out connector.
>
> Tom
>
>
>

On 2006-12-06, Thomas R. <> wrote:
>
>
> Perhaps I didn't express that idea very well but that is still my
> intention. The Add2 card gives the computer a DVI out connector whereas the
> Asus mb has only a VGA out connector.
>
> Tom

Wouldn't a VGA to DVI cable work as they are available?

re: "Wouldn't a VGA to DVI cable work as they are available?"

No such thing exists.

A DVI-I interface has both the digital and the analog signals present in
the same connector. To connect an analog monitor (15-pin VGA), you use
a cable or an adapter that has a 15-pin VGA connector at one end and a
DVI connector at the other end, and it connects the relevant pins of the
analog VGA connector to the corresponding pins of the DVI connector to
pickup the ANALOG signals. This adapter, however, doesn't transform or
create any signals, it doesn't even "create" the analog VGA signals
(they were already present), it's just a passive "connector adapter".

There is no easy way to convert an analog (15-pin VGA) output back into
the DIGITAL signals of a DVI interface. And that's what the poster
wanted to do.


guest wrote:
> On 2006-12-06, Thomas R. <> wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps I didn't express that idea very well but that is still my
>> intention. The Add2 card gives the computer a DVI out connector whereas the
>> Asus mb has only a VGA out connector.
>>
>> Tom
>
> Wouldn't a VGA to DVI cable work as they are available?

I'm not sure, either. I haven't read anything about any of Asus'
motherboards that comes right out and says 'btw, if you want a DVI out, use
this Add2 card'. But, from what I saw here,
http://www.intel.com/products/chipse...prod_brief.pdf, in the page 3
graphic, it appears that it's a possibility. I just don't understand why
Intel would paste that into a product brief when everything else I've read
by Intel on Add2 cards says only 915, 945 and 946 chipsets are supported.
At this point I'm ready to take a chance and if it doesn't work then
I'll just have her use a VGA monitor until I pick out a video card.

Tom

"Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
news:457636dd$0$13730$...
> I'm not sure that you can assume that the add2 card will work unless
> Asus (or the motherboard maker) specifically and explicitly says it will
> work.
>
> Thomas R. wrote:
>
> >
> > Perhaps I didn't express that idea very well but that is still my
> > intention. The Add2 card gives the computer a DVI out connector whereas
the
> > Asus mb has only a VGA out connector.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >