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experiences with jetway cube 150w ps?

 
 
Bill J
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      02-05-2004, 05:51 PM
Jetway has a low priced cube barebones set with intel 845GV chipset,
but only 150W PS. Would this be OK for light duty use with a Celeron
2ghz CPU and no cards in the PCI slot? Or is the 150W PS just too
underpowered for reliable use?
 
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Dorothy Bradbury
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      02-06-2004, 01:11 AM
> Jetway has a low priced cube barebones set with intel 845GV chipset,
> but only 150W PS. Would this be OK for light duty use with a Celeron
> 2ghz CPU and no cards in the PCI slot? Or is the 150W PS just too
> underpowered for reliable use?


Should be relatively ok.

The lower-power Celerons (1.2Ghz Tualatin Skt 370) were a very
good CPU - about 32W, about the same as a 1.7Ghz Skt478 Celeron
since the latter had only a 128KB cache vs the former 256B cache.
Of course, Intel knew people buying skt370 lock themselves out of
an upgrade path thro to P4-3.06-HT, so a ST win has LT cost. That
is unless that power is quite sufficient which for many it is.

So what is required for a Cel2Ghz or full P4 processor?
A good benchmark is the Mini-ITX motherboards which come in
a P4 flavour now, with a laptop-style silent PSU brick - of 120W.

So a 150W PSU is fine quite frankly, some simple checks:
o P4-3.06-Northwood = 75W
o Graphics card embedded = 20W, add-on top-end = 55W
o RAM/10,000rpm-HD = 20W
o Total at *100% load* is 150W

You are planning on...
o Cel-2Ghz + Integrated Video + no PCI cards
o 150W will be fine, yet allow you some upgrade room

Of course, it's always worth shopping around - but Wattage is ok.
Eventually I think Shuttle & others may move to the P-M architecture,
since it consumes so much less power (1/4) yet gives solid performance.

The PSU is likely to be a sub-1U 82mm wide affair I suspect, "std".
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan for fans, books & other items
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy...ry/panaflo.htm (Direct)


 
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Bill J
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-06-2004, 11:21 PM
Thanks veyr much for this info. Some addl. questions. What is the
exact wattage used by a 2ghz 478 128kb l2 cache celeron? 2.4ghz same?

Would a high end video card really consume 55W? I thought the PCI
spec max was around 20W or so?

What about the motherboard in general? I see your data for HD and
RAM, but the motherboard has the bridges, and the extensive i/o (on
board lan, fdd, hdd, usb, etc. etc.).

Thanks

"Dorothy Bradbury" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<0RBUb.18130$(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > Jetway has a low priced cube barebones set with intel 845GV chipset,
> > but only 150W PS. Would this be OK for light duty use with a Celeron
> > 2ghz CPU and no cards in the PCI slot? Or is the 150W PS just too
> > underpowered for reliable use?

>
> Should be relatively ok.
>
> The lower-power Celerons (1.2Ghz Tualatin Skt 370) were a very
> good CPU - about 32W, about the same as a 1.7Ghz Skt478 Celeron
> since the latter had only a 128KB cache vs the former 256B cache.
> Of course, Intel knew people buying skt370 lock themselves out of
> an upgrade path thro to P4-3.06-HT, so a ST win has LT cost. That
> is unless that power is quite sufficient which for many it is.
>
> So what is required for a Cel2Ghz or full P4 processor?
> A good benchmark is the Mini-ITX motherboards which come in
> a P4 flavour now, with a laptop-style silent PSU brick - of 120W.
>
> So a 150W PSU is fine quite frankly, some simple checks:
> o P4-3.06-Northwood = 75W
> o Graphics card embedded = 20W, add-on top-end = 55W
> o RAM/10,000rpm-HD = 20W
> o Total at *100% load* is 150W
>
> You are planning on...
> o Cel-2Ghz + Integrated Video + no PCI cards
> o 150W will be fine, yet allow you some upgrade room
>
> Of course, it's always worth shopping around - but Wattage is ok.
> Eventually I think Shuttle & others may move to the P-M architecture,
> since it consumes so much less power (1/4) yet gives solid performance.
>
> The PSU is likely to be a sub-1U 82mm wide affair I suspect, "std".

 
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Dorothy Bradbury
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Posts: n/a
 
      02-07-2004, 01:24 PM
> Thanks veyr much for this info. Some addl. questions. What is the
> exact wattage used by a 2ghz 478 128kb l2 cache celeron? 2.4ghz same?


You'd have to check with Intel's website - it will list two figures, the practical
design thermal wattage and the theoretical thermal output (which doesn't apply).

> Would a high end video card really consume 55W? I thought the PCI
> spec max was around 20W or so?


Yes they can - they will eventually go beyond 75W since they are
outpacing CPU on transistor count & have a lot of hot running RAM.

They use a separate power-connector on some as I recall, I think the
hottest graphics card is over 130W - but that uses a separate feed, is
for a specialist application and is several thousand dollars (>4,000$US).

> What about the motherboard in general? I see your data for HD and
> RAM, but the motherboard has the bridges, and the extensive i/o (on
> board lan, fdd, hdd, usb, etc. etc.).


I've included it in the graphics card effectively, it's quite small. All that
I/O is only about 5-8W, onboard graphics are 10-25W, and then you
go beyond that figure when you hit the very hot graphics cards.

A typical PC will draw about 170W at typical usage, less at idle.
That's up from 85W a few years back, low-power PCs about 110W.

Remember big servers have 500-680W PSUs because they often have
4-7-14 very hot high-speed 15.3k-rpm SCSI drives - *each* >25W,
plus twin RAID cards which have hot CPUs, plus lots of RAM.

As I posted in reply to someone today...
It comes down to the spec of the PC:
o Mini-ITX P4 PC + 7200rpm 3.5" + onboard graphics
---- use Mini-ITX DC-to-DC convertor board & laptop PSU brick
---- that is available in 120W - yes, a P4 run off a 120W laptop PSU
o Mini-ITX P4 PC + 7200rpm 3.5" + top-end graphics
---- use the 143-170W laptop-brick & convertor board
o P4 with 7x 15.3k-rpm SCSI drives, RAID controller
---- obviously you need another 250W for the HD
---- so here is where the 450-550W PSUs come in

So it comes down to application.

The reason people went to bigger PSUs was because the
low-wattage ones were basically noisy &/or low-quality.

Conversely, FSP-Group/Sparkle/SPI (all same company) do
a perfectly good 250W & 350W ATX PSU. Others do ok
150-250-300W 1U PSU for smaller form factors, and the
Shuttle still has a 150-250W PSU for top-end P4 systems.

Low quality PSUs can't cope with even suppling 80% of rated
load continually 24/7, whereas quality ones can handle 100%.
So people went for higher wattage for safety, when in reality
a properly engineered smaller PSU would do quite perfectly.

Antec, Sparkle & others are good quality PSUs - another is
PC-Power-&-Cooling but they & Antec just spec a PSU that
is made for them, and just spec a higher level than cheap-end.


A EPIA and /just about/ a Cel-1.2 Tualatin (32W) can be run
on a 60W Morex laptop brick PSU & DC-to-DC convertor.
You'd probably need low-end integrated graphics (old skt 370),
and obviously use a 2.5" disk - but it's possible to squeeze it in.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan for fans, books & other items
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy...ry/panaflo.htm (Direct)


 
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Bill J
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-08-2004, 12:00 AM
Thanks again for the great info.!

Yes, I've done some research with the mini ITX form factor and hope to
build a fanless pc appliance soon.

Some of the concerns for my primary project are:

1. Need absolute Intel compatibility. Some VIA C3 processors have
trouble there. (lame audio converter utility fails)

2. Need USB 2.0 and/or IEEE1394 (new mini-ITX have these, but are
expensive), and standard DDR 184 pin memory interface, 333Mhz (PC2700
or faster) preferred.

3. Need integer performance > 2Ghz Celeron (VIA 1.3's equal my Celeron
500s... in the benchmarks and applications that I run)

4. Need price with case, motherboard, power supply, and CPU < US $220
(mini-ITX solutions today are ~30% more or so)

I've browsed your fans page, and may purchase some, if you ship to the
US! Thanks!


"Dorothy Bradbury" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<9G5Vb.790$(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > Thanks veyr much for this info. Some addl. questions. What is the
> > exact wattage used by a 2ghz 478 128kb l2 cache celeron? 2.4ghz same?

>
> You'd have to check with Intel's website - it will list two figures, the practical
> design thermal wattage and the theoretical thermal output (which doesn't apply).
>
> > Would a high end video card really consume 55W? I thought the PCI
> > spec max was around 20W or so?

>
> Yes they can - they will eventually go beyond 75W since they are
> outpacing CPU on transistor count & have a lot of hot running RAM.
>
> They use a separate power-connector on some as I recall, I think the
> hottest graphics card is over 130W - but that uses a separate feed, is
> for a specialist application and is several thousand dollars (>4,000$US).
>
> > What about the motherboard in general? I see your data for HD and
> > RAM, but the motherboard has the bridges, and the extensive i/o (on
> > board lan, fdd, hdd, usb, etc. etc.).

>
> I've included it in the graphics card effectively, it's quite small. All that
> I/O is only about 5-8W, onboard graphics are 10-25W, and then you
> go beyond that figure when you hit the very hot graphics cards.
>
> A typical PC will draw about 170W at typical usage, less at idle.
> That's up from 85W a few years back, low-power PCs about 110W.
>
> Remember big servers have 500-680W PSUs because they often have
> 4-7-14 very hot high-speed 15.3k-rpm SCSI drives - *each* >25W,
> plus twin RAID cards which have hot CPUs, plus lots of RAM.
>
> As I posted in reply to someone today...
> It comes down to the spec of the PC:
> o Mini-ITX P4 PC + 7200rpm 3.5" + onboard graphics
> ---- use Mini-ITX DC-to-DC convertor board & laptop PSU brick
> ---- that is available in 120W - yes, a P4 run off a 120W laptop PSU
> o Mini-ITX P4 PC + 7200rpm 3.5" + top-end graphics
> ---- use the 143-170W laptop-brick & convertor board
> o P4 with 7x 15.3k-rpm SCSI drives, RAID controller
> ---- obviously you need another 250W for the HD
> ---- so here is where the 450-550W PSUs come in
>
> So it comes down to application.
>
> The reason people went to bigger PSUs was because the
> low-wattage ones were basically noisy &/or low-quality.
>
> Conversely, FSP-Group/Sparkle/SPI (all same company) do
> a perfectly good 250W & 350W ATX PSU. Others do ok
> 150-250-300W 1U PSU for smaller form factors, and the
> Shuttle still has a 150-250W PSU for top-end P4 systems.
>
> Low quality PSUs can't cope with even suppling 80% of rated
> load continually 24/7, whereas quality ones can handle 100%.
> So people went for higher wattage for safety, when in reality
> a properly engineered smaller PSU would do quite perfectly.
>
> Antec, Sparkle & others are good quality PSUs - another is
> PC-Power-&-Cooling but they & Antec just spec a PSU that
> is made for them, and just spec a higher level than cheap-end.
>
>
> A EPIA and /just about/ a Cel-1.2 Tualatin (32W) can be run
> on a 60W Morex laptop brick PSU & DC-to-DC convertor.
> You'd probably need low-end integrated graphics (old skt 370),
> and obviously use a 2.5" disk - but it's possible to squeeze it in.

 
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Dorothy Bradbury
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-09-2004, 06:52 PM
> Yes, I've done some research with the mini ITX form factor and hope to
> build a fanless pc appliance soon.
>
> 1. Need absolute Intel compatibility. Some VIA C3 processors have
> trouble there. (lame audio converter utility fails)
> 3. Need integer performance > 2Ghz Celeron (VIA 1.3's equal my Celeron
> 500s... in the benchmarks and applications that I run)


Two solutions:
1) P4 Mini-ITX board - about 120ukp here, probably 140$US
Benefit:
o Takes standard S478 chip -- Celeron & P4
o Fanless PSU-able -- 120W DC-to-DC convertor (143W, 170W etc)
Problem:
o Heat -- Celeron kick out a lot of heat, as do P4s
o Not Fanless CPU -- even with a flower heatsink, you need thro-airflow

That said, not hard to do a true blow-thro case with 25cfm being enough.

2) P-M P4-M Mini-ITX board - listed but not seem them retailed yet
Benefit
o Very low power CPU -- P-M is 22W yet *very* good performance
o Fanless PSU-able -- cheaper 60W models may work for P-M
Problem
o P-M difficult to get, P-4M easier re cheap-as-chips on Ebay


There is a strong market for a P-M SOHO appliance, which would
knock the EPIA offering quite hard. Check the motherboards/chipsets.

To put the 22W in perspective of the P-M processor, that is 2/3rds of
the heat output of the old favourite Celeron-Tualatin-1.2Ghz-skt370 22W.

> 2. Need USB 2.0 and/or IEEE1394 (new mini-ITX have these, but are
> expensive), and standard DDR 184 pin memory interface, 333Mhz (PC2700
> or faster) preferred.


Faster than 333 would mean 800Mhz bus I assume, see above.

> 4. Need price with case, motherboard, power supply, and CPU < US $220
> (mini-ITX solutions today are ~30% more or so)


Sounds like a compute-brick, hmm, stack em, cube-em & compute-em :-)

> I've browsed your fans page, and may purchase some, if you ship to the
> US! Thanks!


Yes I do - but check US prices as always.

Thanks.
--
Dorothy Bradbury


 
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Bill J
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      02-16-2004, 12:44 AM
Hi Dorothy and anyone else monitoring this thread,
I'm curious if you would think the 200W cube jetway unit at
newegg.com for about $8 more might be a better deal. It uses SIS
chipsets rather than the intel 845gv, but has a 200w ps instead of
150w. any thoughts?

thanks!

"Dorothy Bradbury" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<hGQVb.2265$(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > Yes, I've done some research with the mini ITX form factor and hope to
> > build a fanless pc appliance soon.
> >
> > 1. Need absolute Intel compatibility. Some VIA C3 processors have
> > trouble there. (lame audio converter utility fails)
> > 3. Need integer performance > 2Ghz Celeron (VIA 1.3's equal my Celeron
> > 500s... in the benchmarks and applications that I run)

>
> Two solutions:
> 1) P4 Mini-ITX board - about 120ukp here, probably 140$US
> Benefit:
> o Takes standard S478 chip -- Celeron & P4
> o Fanless PSU-able -- 120W DC-to-DC convertor (143W, 170W etc)
> Problem:
> o Heat -- Celeron kick out a lot of heat, as do P4s
> o Not Fanless CPU -- even with a flower heatsink, you need thro-airflow
>
> That said, not hard to do a true blow-thro case with 25cfm being enough.
>
> 2) P-M P4-M Mini-ITX board - listed but not seem them retailed yet
> Benefit
> o Very low power CPU -- P-M is 22W yet *very* good performance
> o Fanless PSU-able -- cheaper 60W models may work for P-M
> Problem
> o P-M difficult to get, P-4M easier re cheap-as-chips on Ebay
>
>
> There is a strong market for a P-M SOHO appliance, which would
> knock the EPIA offering quite hard. Check the motherboards/chipsets.
>
> To put the 22W in perspective of the P-M processor, that is 2/3rds of
> the heat output of the old favourite Celeron-Tualatin-1.2Ghz-skt370 22W.
>
> > 2. Need USB 2.0 and/or IEEE1394 (new mini-ITX have these, but are
> > expensive), and standard DDR 184 pin memory interface, 333Mhz (PC2700
> > or faster) preferred.

>
> Faster than 333 would mean 800Mhz bus I assume, see above.
>
> > 4. Need price with case, motherboard, power supply, and CPU < US $220
> > (mini-ITX solutions today are ~30% more or so)

>
> Sounds like a compute-brick, hmm, stack em, cube-em & compute-em :-)
>
> > I've browsed your fans page, and may purchase some, if you ship to the
> > US! Thanks!

>
> Yes I do - but check US prices as always.
>
> Thanks.

 
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