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External Firewire Hard Drive Won't Boot -- Why?

 
 
James L. Ryan
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      06-12-2005, 09:26 PM
I have an external firewire hard drive that acts normal in all regards except
that it will not boot. It can be read from and written to. I formatted it
(HFS journaled) and then attempted to install Tiger. All went well until the
restart was requested, and then things hung with the drive having a brief
spin about once a minute. The drive passes the repair disk option of Disk
Utility. Because the installation of Tiger wasn't completed it isn't
considered to be hosting OS X and thus a permission repair via Disk Utility
is not possible. The format and install of OS X has been tried several times
and each time the results are identical with the disk failing to mount at the
end of the install process. My other external firewire drive also hosts a
system and boots without a problem.

Any suggestions will be most appreciated.

--
James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

 
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James L. Ryan
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      06-12-2005, 09:38 PM
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 16:26:40 -0500, James L. Ryan wrote
(in article <(E-Mail Removed) m>):

Oops, in my immediately preceding posting in this thread I stated that the
drive was HFS Journaled when I should have said Mac OS X Extended
(journaled).


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James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

 
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matt neuburg
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      06-12-2005, 10:33 PM
James L. Ryan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I have an external firewire hard drive that acts normal in all regards except
> that it will not boot.


What kind is it? Not every external firewire drive is bootable; do the
specs claim that this one is? m.


--
matt neuburg, phd = (E-Mail Removed), http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
Tiger - http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
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James L. Ryan
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      06-13-2005, 01:24 AM
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:33:58 -0500, matt neuburg wrote
(in article <1gy1uw6.8m10r4yau3j8N%(E-Mail Removed)>):

> James L. Ryan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I have an external firewire hard drive that acts normal in all regards
>> except
>> that it will not boot.

>
> What kind is it? Not every external firewire drive is bootable; do the
> specs claim that this one is? m.


Matt,

Many thanks for taking the time to try to figure this out!

Below is the info stuff from Disk Utility. Maybe somewhere in that mish-mash
is something revealing! And hopefully the info below won 't get wrapped into
obscurity.

Jim


From Disk Utility Disk Info
========================================
> Name : Prolific PL3507 Combo Device
> Type : Disk
>
> Disk Identifier : disk1
> Media Name : Maxtor 6 Y200P0 Media
> Media Type : Generic
> Connection Bus : FireWire
> Connection Type : External
> Connection ID : 22648902029167820
> Partition Type : Apple_partition_scheme
> Device Tree : fw/node@50770e70004ccc/sbp-2@4000/@0:0
> Writable : Yes
> Ejectable : Yes
> Mac OS 9 Drivers Installed : Yes
> Location : External
> Total Capacity : 189.9 GB (203,927,060,480 Bytes)
> S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
> Disk Number : 1
> Partition Number : 0

========================================



From Disk Utility Volume Info
========================================
> Name : Broca Senior
> Type : Volume
>
> Disk Identifier : disk1s10
> Mount Point : /Volumes/Broca Senior
> File System : Mac OS Extended (Journaled)
> Connection Bus : FireWire
> Partition Type : Apple_HFS
> Device Tree : fw/node@50770e70004ccc/sbp-2@4000/@0:10
> Writable : Yes
> Universal Unique Identifier : 0E83EC6C-6E65-3687-B7EF-CA9A44191B3A
> Capacity : 189.8 GB (203,791,900,672 Bytes)
> Free Space : 185.2 GB (198,864,982,016 Bytes)
> Used : 4.6 GB (4,909,379,584 Bytes)
> Number of Files : 222,803
> Number of Folders : 62,199
> Owners Enabled : No
> Can Turn Owners Off : Yes
> Can Be Formatted : Yes
> Bootable : Yes
> Supports Journaling : Yes
> Journaled : Yes
> S.M.A.R.T. Status : Not Supported
> Disk Number : 1
> Partition Number : 10

========================================

--
James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

 
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matt neuburg
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      06-13-2005, 03:05 AM
James L. Ryan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:33:58 -0500, matt neuburg wrote
> (in article <1gy1uw6.8m10r4yau3j8N%(E-Mail Removed)>):
>
> > James L. Ryan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >> I have an external firewire hard drive that acts normal in all regards
> >> except
> >> that it will not boot.

> >
> > What kind is it? Not every external firewire drive is bootable; do the
> > specs claim that this one is? m.

>
> Matt,
>
> Many thanks for taking the time to try to figure this out!
>
> Below is the info stuff from Disk Utility. Maybe somewhere in that mish-mash
> is something revealing! And hopefully the info below won 't get wrapped into
> obscurity.
>
> Jim
>
>
> From Disk Utility Disk Info
> ========================================
> > Name : Prolific PL3507 Combo Device
> > Type : Disk
> >
> > Disk Identifier : disk1
> > Media Name : Maxtor 6 Y200P0 Media


Okay, that should be bootable. Have you made sure you've installed the
latest firmware updates?

<http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m.../std_adp.php?p
_faqid=1649&p_created=1064003508>

m.

--
matt neuburg, phd = (E-Mail Removed), http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
Tiger - http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
AppleScript - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571
Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
 
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James L. Ryan
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      06-13-2005, 03:34 AM
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:05:55 -0500, matt neuburg wrote
(in article <1gy27l3.mq9v55ts2msaN%(E-Mail Removed)>):

> James L. Ryan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:33:58 -0500, matt neuburg wrote
>> (in article <1gy1uw6.8m10r4yau3j8N%(E-Mail Removed)>):
>>
>>> James L. Ryan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have an external firewire hard drive that acts normal in all regards
>>>> except
>>>> that it will not boot.
>>>
>>> What kind is it? Not every external firewire drive is bootable; do the
>>> specs claim that this one is? m.

>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> Many thanks for taking the time to try to figure this out!
>>
>> Below is the info stuff from Disk Utility. Maybe somewhere in that mish-mash
>> is something revealing! And hopefully the info below won 't get wrapped into
>> obscurity.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> From Disk Utility Disk Info
>> ========================================
>>> Name : Prolific PL3507 Combo Device
>>> Type : Disk
>>>
>>> Disk Identifier : disk1
>>> Media Name : Maxtor 6 Y200P0 Media

>
> Okay, that should be bootable. Have you made sure you've installed the
> latest firmware updates?
>
> <http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m.../std_adp.php?p
> _faqid=1649&p_created=1064003508>


Matt,

The drive is the Maxtor, but the controller chip is the Prolific PL3507. The
drive itself worked fine when controlled by an Oxford chip. The change to the
Prolific chip was made because the Oxford chip got fried when the drive was
plugged into a friend's computer which had a faulty firewire port. Since my
last posting I've done some googling and have found a number of postings
suggesting that there is a compatibility problem with the Prolific chip. Do
you know anything about this? And, will the Maxtor updater have any purpose
when the controller is the Prolific chip?

Again, many, many thanks!

Jim




--
James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

 
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matt neuburg
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      06-13-2005, 03:05 PM
James L. Ryan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> The drive is the Maxtor, but the controller chip is the Prolific PL3507. The
> drive itself worked fine when controlled by an Oxford chip. The change to the
> Prolific chip was made because the Oxford chip got fried when the drive was
> plugged into a friend's computer which had a faulty firewire port. Since my
> last posting I've done some googling and have found a number of postings
> suggesting that there is a compatibility problem with the Prolific chip. Do
> you know anything about this? And, will the Maxtor updater have any purpose
> when the controller is the Prolific chip?


We're out of my depth at this point. But my original point is the same:
a drive is not bootable all by itself; it requires the right controller
with the right firmware. Some controllers may never be compatible with
booting Tiger. Some may be, but only with a firmware upgrade. (And some
will work right out of the box.) This explains the difference between
your results on different drives. m.

--
matt neuburg, phd = (E-Mail Removed), http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
Tiger - http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
AppleScript - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571
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James L. Ryan
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      06-13-2005, 07:44 PM
Matt,

Many thanks again for taking the time to try to help but it looks like its
time to bang one's head against the wall. Here is the exchange I had with
Vantec, the makers of the enclosure into which the Maxtor disk was installed.
It would have been nice if they had stated the limitation on the box before I
wasted my $60.

Jim

========================================

James,
*
Unfortunately, the chipset in the NST-350UF does not allow for booting from
the enclosed drive.
*
Regards,

Vantec Thermal Technologies
43951 Boscell Rd
Fremont, CA 94538
Tel: 510-668-0368
Fax: 510-668-0367
*

Note: Please include all prior correspondence when replying to this e-mail.*
Failure to do so will delay responses.* Also, if you have a SPAM blocker,
please place (E-Mail Removed) on your allowed list or you may not
receive responses.


-----Original Message-----
From: James L. Ryan [(E-Mail Removed)]
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 7:17 PM
To: (E-Mail Removed)
Subject: Cannot Get Vantec NexStar Hosted Drive to Boot -- Mac OS X

To Whom It May Concern,

I recently purchased a Vantec NexStar NST-350UF drive enclosure into which I
have installed a Maxtor 6 Y200P0 Media hard drive. The drive is connected via
firewire to a Macintosh 17" PowerBook (latest model) which is running Mac OS
X 10.4.1. The problem I am having is that I have been unsuccessful at being
able to boot from this drive. I can read and write to the drive with no
problem. When I attempt a boot the drive shows a few seconds of activity
followed by a minute or two of inactivity and then the cycle repeats. What is
it I need to do to get the drive to work properly?

Sincerely,

James L. Ryan
(E-Mail Removed)

========================================


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James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

 
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matt neuburg
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      06-13-2005, 08:36 PM
James L. Ryan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Matt,
>
> Many thanks again for taking the time to try to help but it looks like its
> time to bang one's head against the wall. Here is the exchange I had with
> Vantec, the makers of the enclosure into which the Maxtor disk was installed.
> It would have been nice if they had stated the limitation on the box before I
> wasted my $60.
>
> Jim
>
> ========================================
>
> James,
>
> Unfortunately, the chipset in the NST-350UF does not allow for booting from
> the enclosed drive.


I'm not sure what you mean by "try" - my initial guess was spot on
(unfortunately). Remember, my very first reply was: "Not every external
firewire drive is bootable; do the specs claim that this one is?" What I
meant was: I bet the problem here is simply that this isn't a bootable
drive. And that turns out to be true. It's one of those due diligence or
caveat emptor things: you don't get a drive enclosure and just *expect*
it to be bootable. m.

--
matt neuburg, phd = (E-Mail Removed), http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
Tiger - http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
AppleScript - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571
Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com
 
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James L. Ryan
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      06-13-2005, 09:55 PM
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:36:49 -0500, matt neuburg wrote
(in article <1gy3k82.17ra0aoij0kjoN%(E-Mail Removed)>):

> I'm not sure what you mean by "try" - my initial guess was spot on
> (unfortunately). Remember, my very first reply was: "Not every external
> firewire drive is bootable; do the specs claim that this one is?" What I
> meant was: I bet the problem here is simply that this isn't a bootable
> drive. And that turns out to be true. It's one of those due diligence or
> caveat emptor things: you don't get a drive enclosure and just *expect*
> it to be bootable


Matt,

I was using "try" in a very broad sense -- after all, you did take the time
to reply and to offer suggestions as to what might be done. As for the
controller chip not able to boot, I'll take a somewhat defensive position in
that the carton stated that it was "compatible with OS X" and that I
specifically stated to the clerk at Fry's that I was intending to use the
enclosure to house what would become the boot disk for a friend's TiBook
which had an internal disk that had insufficient capacity.

Jim

--
James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

 
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