Follow up to "Boot fails at checkpoint Ithr" from a couple of weeks ago

A couple of weeks ago I spoke with Dan Mays at Dell Hardware Support, who
was nice enough to take my calls even though my Dimension 4700 is no longer
under warranty. Unfortunately, he told me that all the symptoms point to my
motherboard failing and it would need to be replaced. He was not able to
authorize a replacement at no charge for me, something I was hoping for, but
not holding my breath, to get.

Now my other Dimension 4700 is exhibiting the exact same problem. The boot
will fail and return the error message of "Boot failed at checkpoint Ithr."
And same as my first 4700, I can fix it by removing the battery for a few
minutes. My initial problem was with a 4700 I purchased brand new, my new
problem is with a refurbished unit (which is actually newer than my "new"
unit by a few months) I purchased three or four months ago off the Dell
Outlet site.

I have phoned Dell again and left a message for Dan Mays as well as Shelly
Pruett concerning this issue. That's two Dimension 4700's, owned by the
same person, with the same problem. What are the odds of that? I'm hoping
that now, Dell will help me with this. I have two systems that can not be
trusted to boot up. If anyone has any ideas, I'm looking for all the
information I can get. The Dell Forums have plenty of issues of this type,
although there seems to be a trend to 4700's heating up.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

it would not seem so unusual for the same person to have two machines with
the same problem if the problem is actually external to the machine... for
instance, something that you are doing that you did to both machines. first
of all, dell certainly has produced problematic products from time to time
but the 4700 is rock solid as far as i know. this is the first i am hearing
of this problem and i have lots of these machine working hard for me. only
occasional hard disk problems to speak of. nothing else. your error
message suggests that the problem is related to the cpu temperature, but
from what i gather it could be other things... such as a faulty device
connected to a usb port. so i ask, do you have anything connected to any of
the usb ports? and do both machine happen to have that same device (thumb
drive, printer, hardlock key, media reader... whatever) and if all usb
devices are removed does the machine boot normally? also, what bios
revision do you have on each of these systems? i suspect that the problem
is something other than the motherboard and the error message is just
blurring the real issue and is not helping matters... start with looking
into the usb question and the bios revisions and post again.

"Kevin" <> wrote in message
news:44c9749c$0$21661$.. .
>A couple of weeks ago I spoke with Dan Mays at Dell Hardware Support, who
>was nice enough to take my calls even though my Dimension 4700 is no longer
>under warranty. Unfortunately, he told me that all the symptoms point to
>my motherboard failing and it would need to be replaced. He was not able
>to authorize a replacement at no charge for me, something I was hoping for,
>but not holding my breath, to get.
>
> Now my other Dimension 4700 is exhibiting the exact same problem. The
> boot will fail and return the error message of "Boot failed at checkpoint
> Ithr." And same as my first 4700, I can fix it by removing the battery for
> a few minutes. My initial problem was with a 4700 I purchased brand new,
> my new problem is with a refurbished unit (which is actually newer than my
> "new" unit by a few months) I purchased three or four months ago off the
> Dell Outlet site.
>
> I have phoned Dell again and left a message for Dan Mays as well as Shelly
> Pruett concerning this issue. That's two Dimension 4700's, owned by the
> same person, with the same problem. What are the odds of that? I'm
> hoping that now, Dell will help me with this. I have two systems that can
> not be trusted to boot up. If anyone has any ideas, I'm looking for all
> the information I can get. The Dell Forums have plenty of issues of this
> type, although there seems to be a trend to 4700's heating up.
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

"Kevin" <> wrote in message
news:44c9749c$0$21661$.. .
>A couple of weeks ago I spoke with Dan Mays at Dell Hardware Support, who
>was nice enough to take my calls even though my Dimension 4700 is no longer
>under warranty. Unfortunately, he told me that all the symptoms point to
>my motherboard failing and it would need to be replaced. He was not able
>to authorize a replacement at no charge for me, something I was hoping for,
>but not holding my breath, to get.
>

My brief search of this specific pre-POST message indicated that this points
to the thermal monitoring of the CPU from the system board.

Since I've worked with quite a few 4700's over the years I tend to agree
with Chris. The "ckpoint" errors aren't seen often. There are perhaps 20 or
more errors/codes that can be spit out by the system by that method. I've
not seen (or don't recall having seen) this particular thermal error ever.
Therefore I'm wondering what environment and configuration the machines
operate with for two of them to produce the same error. Indeed, what are the
chances.

If they were mine, I'd locate replacement boards on ebay, but not until I
had determined any common configuration or setup for both - which might
point to possible causes.


Stew

"S.Lewis" <> wrote in message
news:Uxmyg.21187$.. .
>
> "Kevin" <> wrote in message
> news:44c9749c$0$21661$.. .
>>A couple of weeks ago I spoke with Dan Mays at Dell Hardware Support, who
>>was nice enough to take my calls even though my Dimension 4700 is no
>>longer under warranty. Unfortunately, he told me that all the symptoms
>>point to my motherboard failing and it would need to be replaced. He was
>>not able to authorize a replacement at no charge for me, something I was
>>hoping for, but not holding my breath, to get.
>>
>
> My brief search of this specific pre-POST message indicated that this
> points to the thermal monitoring of the CPU from the system board.
>
> Since I've worked with quite a few 4700's over the years I tend to agree
> with Chris. The "ckpoint" errors aren't seen often. There are perhaps 20
> or more errors/codes that can be spit out by the system by that method.
> I've not seen (or don't recall having seen) this particular thermal error
> ever.
> Therefore I'm wondering what environment and configuration the machines
> operate with for two of them to produce the same error. Indeed, what are
> the chances.
>
> If they were mine, I'd locate replacement boards on ebay, but not until I
> had determined any common configuration or setup for both - which might
> point to possible causes.
>
>
> Stew

Thanks to both Chris and yourself for the very good information. Briefly
here is the current setup for both machines.

4700 (New) the subject of my previous posts ---
USB connections: Logitech Wireless Keyboard and Mouse, D-Link USB Wireless,
Dell FP1907 with USB ports.

4700 (Refurbished Unit) now showing the same symptoms as my new 4700 ---
USB connections: Epson Stylus Photo R200, Epson Perfection 1650 Scanner,
Samsung ML-1430 Laser Printer, Creative WebCam, Logitech Wireless Keyboard
and Mouse, Kingston USB Key 128 MB.

Until last week this configuration was switched. I just reorganized my
office and moved all the gear now on the refurbished unit from the new unit.
I have tried leaving everything but the monitor and keyboard/mouse unplugged
when this problem happens and it makes no difference. Neither machine will
boot until I remove the battery on the motherboard for a few minutes and
then try to start the system(s).

I do not believe that heating is the problem. So I will try to troubleshoot
the system, but this error does not occur with any frequency. The computer
will boot just fine for days and days and days, then out of the blue it will
not boot up. None of my USB connected hardware has ever given me any
problems.

Kevin -

Have a look at the BIOS version number at the Dell splash on both, fwiw.
(A10 is the most recent, and A09 had a USB init. fix. A06 had a huge list of
corrects/improvements.). I'm just curious if:

a) they versions are the same, and

b) the possibility to flash them to a newer version exists.


What you're seeing is a very low-level hardware error that may or may not
be triggered by some added external/internal component. Given the fact that
it's intermittent, it caused me to wonder about the BIOS versions.

The 4700 also has the odd distinction of being the only Dimension (at the
time they were produced) with a CPU/case fan that *pulled* fresh air into
the case rather than exhausting warm air *outward*. Likely not a factor but
an oddity.

I'd certainly have a look to be sure both were dust-free on the interior,
and that they were set up in a well-ventilated and reasonably cool
environment.

Stew

"S.Lewis" <> wrote in message
news:TRryg.1116$...
> Kevin -
>
> Have a look at the BIOS version number at the Dell splash on both, fwiw.
> (A10 is the most recent, and A09 had a USB init. fix. A06 had a huge list
> of corrects/improvements.). I'm just curious if:
>
> a) they versions are the same, and
>
> b) the possibility to flash them to a newer version exists.
>
>
> What you're seeing is a very low-level hardware error that may or may not
> be triggered by some added external/internal component. Given the fact
> that it's intermittent, it caused me to wonder about the BIOS versions.
>
> The 4700 also has the odd distinction of being the only Dimension (at the
> time they were produced) with a CPU/case fan that *pulled* fresh air into
> the case rather than exhausting warm air *outward*. Likely not a factor
> but an oddity.
>
> I'd certainly have a look to be sure both were dust-free on the interior,
> and that they were set up in a well-ventilated and reasonably cool
> environment.
>
> Stew

On the refurbished unit, which is actually newer than my "new" 4700, the
BIOS version is indeed A10. On my "new" 4700 the version number is A09.
The case interiors are spotless on both. I'm very hesitant to flash the
BIOS to new versions, if available, for the simple reason that should
ANYTHING go wrong during the process, I could be up the proverbial creek.

I have a digital thermometer, and I have checked the temperatures directly
adjacent to the processor heat sink shroud on both machines. Both were
between 93 oF and 98 oF in a room with an ambient temp of 83 oF. Plenty of
fresh air flow around both units.

I'm expecting a call from Dell this afternoon and I hope to be able to get
more information from Dan Mays (who was very helpful to the extent his
authority permitted) regarding my issue. One question I will be asking is
why does removing the battery from the motherboard fix the problem, at least
temporarily? Another is could there actually be a problem with my Logitech
Wireless Keyboard and Mouse that is causing this halt in the boot process?
They connect (as a unit) via a USB port. It would be interesting to know if
the USB drivers are loaded before or after the Ithr checkpoint in the boot
process.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Simple check on the USB externals would be to dig out or purchase a really
really cheap PS2 mouse and keyboard - and test.





"Kevin" <> wrote in message
news:44ca70a0$0$30659$.. .
>
> "S.Lewis" <> wrote in message
> news:TRryg.1116$...
>> Kevin -
>>
>> Have a look at the BIOS version number at the Dell splash on both, fwiw.
>> (A10 is the most recent, and A09 had a USB init. fix. A06 had a huge list
>> of corrects/improvements.). I'm just curious if:
>>
>> a) they versions are the same, and
>>
>> b) the possibility to flash them to a newer version exists.
>>
>>
>> What you're seeing is a very low-level hardware error that may or may
>> not be triggered by some added external/internal component. Given the
>> fact that it's intermittent, it caused me to wonder about the BIOS
>> versions.
>>
>> The 4700 also has the odd distinction of being the only Dimension (at the
>> time they were produced) with a CPU/case fan that *pulled* fresh air into
>> the case rather than exhausting warm air *outward*. Likely not a factor
>> but an oddity.
>>
>> I'd certainly have a look to be sure both were dust-free on the interior,
>> and that they were set up in a well-ventilated and reasonably cool
>> environment.
>>
>> Stew
>
> On the refurbished unit, which is actually newer than my "new" 4700, the
> BIOS version is indeed A10. On my "new" 4700 the version number is A09.
> The case interiors are spotless on both. I'm very hesitant to flash the
> BIOS to new versions, if available, for the simple reason that should
> ANYTHING go wrong during the process, I could be up the proverbial creek.
>
> I have a digital thermometer, and I have checked the temperatures directly
> adjacent to the processor heat sink shroud on both machines. Both were
> between 93 oF and 98 oF in a room with an ambient temp of 83 oF. Plenty
> of fresh air flow around both units.
>
> I'm expecting a call from Dell this afternoon and I hope to be able to get
> more information from Dan Mays (who was very helpful to the extent his
> authority permitted) regarding my issue. One question I will be asking is
> why does removing the battery from the motherboard fix the problem, at
> least temporarily? Another is could there actually be a problem with my
> Logitech Wireless Keyboard and Mouse that is causing this halt in the boot
> process? They connect (as a unit) via a USB port. It would be interesting
> to know if the USB drivers are loaded before or after the Ithr checkpoint
> in the boot process.
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

I have a new Dell keyboard and mouse of the PS2 variety so I'll probably
switch out the hardware and see what happens after I talk to Dell. I love
my Logitech KB and mouse so much it will be a hardship, but I'll do it. The
Dell keyboards suck and the Dell mouse is equally awful.

"S.Lewis" <> wrote in message
news:Suvyg.83$...
>
> Simple check on the USB externals would be to dig out or purchase a really
> really cheap PS2 mouse and keyboard - and test.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Kevin" <> wrote in message
> news:44ca70a0$0$30659$.. .
>>
>> "S.Lewis" <> wrote in message
>> news:TRryg.1116$...
>>> Kevin -
>>>
>>> Have a look at the BIOS version number at the Dell splash on both, fwiw.
>>> (A10 is the most recent, and A09 had a USB init. fix. A06 had a huge
>>> list of corrects/improvements.). I'm just curious if:
>>>
>>> a) they versions are the same, and
>>>
>>> b) the possibility to flash them to a newer version exists.
>>>
>>>
>>> What you're seeing is a very low-level hardware error that may or may
>>> not be triggered by some added external/internal component. Given the
>>> fact that it's intermittent, it caused me to wonder about the BIOS
>>> versions.
>>>
>>> The 4700 also has the odd distinction of being the only Dimension (at
>>> the time they were produced) with a CPU/case fan that *pulled* fresh air
>>> into the case rather than exhausting warm air *outward*. Likely not a
>>> factor but an oddity.
>>>
>>> I'd certainly have a look to be sure both were dust-free on the
>>> interior, and that they were set up in a well-ventilated and reasonably
>>> cool environment.
>>>
>>> Stew
>>
>> On the refurbished unit, which is actually newer than my "new" 4700, the
>> BIOS version is indeed A10. On my "new" 4700 the version number is A09.
>> The case interiors are spotless on both. I'm very hesitant to flash the
>> BIOS to new versions, if available, for the simple reason that should
>> ANYTHING go wrong during the process, I could be up the proverbial creek.
>>
>> I have a digital thermometer, and I have checked the temperatures
>> directly adjacent to the processor heat sink shroud on both machines.
>> Both were between 93 oF and 98 oF in a room with an ambient temp of 83
>> oF. Plenty of fresh air flow around both units.
>>
>> I'm expecting a call from Dell this afternoon and I hope to be able to
>> get more information from Dan Mays (who was very helpful to the extent
>> his authority permitted) regarding my issue. One question I will be
>> asking is why does removing the battery from the motherboard fix the
>> problem, at least temporarily? Another is could there actually be a
>> problem with my Logitech Wireless Keyboard and Mouse that is causing this
>> halt in the boot process? They connect (as a unit) via a USB port. It
>> would be interesting to know if the USB drivers are loaded before or
>> after the Ithr checkpoint in the boot process.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>>
>
>

"Kevin" <> wrote in message
news:44ca8dbb$0$6431$...
>I have a new Dell keyboard and mouse of the PS2 variety so I'll probably
>switch out the hardware and see what happens after I talk to Dell. I love
>my Logitech KB and mouse so much it will be a hardship, but I'll do it.
>The Dell keyboards suck and the Dell mouse is equally awful.
>


The point isn't to deprive you of your favorite toys. No, it's to find out
if those are contributing to the problem or not - thereby saving you the
potential cost of new system boards.

From your previous post, looks like BIOS version isn't an obvious factor.

Anyway...

I found this thread because I googled the error message that had just popped up on my Dimension 4700 (also out of warranty). Glad that you asked Kevin about the environment because I was also using the Logitech Wireless Keyboard & Mouse. During one of the diagnostics I saw some keyboard errors. I knew that the failure to boot could be caused by hardware conflict but all checked out with using the Diagnostics and Utilities.

Regarding the temperature... I noticed that when I changed to a regular Dell keyboard and mouse, the fan was running at a low speed. Whenever I was experiencing the boot problems (approx 3 out of 5 unsuccessful) I had noticed that the fan was running at a loud high speed so I would usually shut down & let it cool off. In fact, a while back I had set the computer standby after 20 min because I could hear the fan running in the next room hours after I had stopped using it.

Susan