Font management

I have Tiger. I have more than 400 fonts, which makes it hard to format
a document.

I ran Monolingual to get rid of non-English fonts. Somehow I still have
Oriental and Arabic fonts.

My fonts are in four places: the System folder, the Library, my user
Library, and my Classic System folder. Linotype Font Explorer shows ten
font families that have been copied to more than one location. If I
delete some copies, in what location should I leave one?

LFE can place all fonts that did not come with OSX in a folder. That
sounds like a start. If I find I need one of those fonts, to what
location should I move it?

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <>, sawney beane
> <> wrote:
>
>> I have Tiger. I have more than 400 fonts, which makes it hard to format
>> a document.
>>
>> I ran Monolingual to get rid of non-English fonts. Somehow I still have
>> Oriental and Arabic fonts.
>
> Monolingual doesn't delete fonts. Read the documentation.

The documentation says it removes files. Where does it say it doesn't
remove fonts? How did it save me 750 MB if none of those files were fonts?

>
>> My fonts are in four places: the System folder, the Library, my user
>> Library, and my Classic System folder. Linotype Font Explorer shows ten
>> font families that have been copied to more than one location. If I
>> delete some copies, in what location should I leave one?
>
> Pick either /Library or ~/Library
>
>> LFE can place all fonts that did not come with OSX in a folder. That
>> sounds like a start. If I find I need one of those fonts, to what
>> location should I move it?
>
> Read the LFE documentation (Help menu).
>
> Really.

I spent a long time reading the LFE documentation before I posted here.

On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 17:48:06 -0500, sawney beane wrote (in article
<>):

> I have Tiger. I have more than 400 fonts, which makes it hard to format a
> document.

I also run Tiger (10.4.7) and I have more than 2,000 fonts, but I've never
had a problem formatting a document and am puzzled what the difficulty is.

> I ran Monolingual to get rid of non-English fonts. Somehow I still have
> Oriental and Arabic fonts.

I felt no need to purge the system of non-English fonts. My understanding,
possibly wrong, is that such fonts in System/Library/Fonts should not be
removed.

> My fonts are in four places: the System folder, the Library, my user
> Library, and my Classic System folder. Linotype Font Explorer shows ten
> font families that have been copied to more than one location. If I
> delete some copies, in what location should I leave one?

I have all of my fonts in either /System/Library/Fonts or in /Library/Fonts.
I'm not running Classic but have moved the Classic fonts to /Library/Fonts.
My font management tool of choice is Font Book, the default font manager that
comes with OS X. I have used Font Book's export facility to encapsulate each
font family within a containing folder and have clustered those folders
within a "source" folder the name of which identifies the source of the
contained font folders. Font Book can be used to disable redundant versions
of a font.

> LFE can place all fonts that did not come with OSX in a folder. That
> sounds like a start. If I find I need one of those fonts, to what
> location should I move it?

The one capability missing from Font Book is automatic activation of fonts,
but to be honest, this is something the need of which has never been very
important to me. Perhaps if I had it I would feel different, and maybe it
will appear with Leopard.

--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas .....

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <qqmdnRLEu->, sawney beane
> <> wrote:
>
>> Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>> In article <>, sawney beane
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have Tiger. I have more than 400 fonts, which makes it hard to format
>>>> a document.
>>>>
>>>> I ran Monolingual to get rid of non-English fonts. Somehow I still have
>>>> Oriental and Arabic fonts.
>>> Monolingual doesn't delete fonts. Read the documentation.
>> The documentation says it removes files. Where does it say it doesn't
>> remove fonts? How did it save me 750 MB if none of those files were fonts?
>
> Does it say it removes fonts? It didn't remove yours, nor has it ever
> removed fonts on my system. It removes localization files from within
> application bundles.

I indicated that I had assumed Monolingual removed fonts. You told me
to read the documentation. I thought you meant the documentation said
it didn't remove fonts. I reread it and still didn't find that part.

>
>>>> LFE can place all fonts that did not come with OSX in a folder. That
>>>> sounds like a start. If I find I need one of those fonts, to what
>>>> location should I move it?
>>> Read the LFE documentation (Help menu).
>>>
>>> Really.
>> I spent a long time reading the LFE documentation before I posted here.
>
> Then do you not understand that LFE activates fonts regardless of their
> location? That you do not have to move a font if you find you need one
> activated?
>
> I use LFE on my Mac and Suitcase on other Macs at work, to manage
> nearly 4,000 fonts, BTW.

How much of your knowledge came from the Help menu with no need for
experience? If you hadn't told I would not have guessed LFE activated
fonts from the FontsRemovedFromSystem folder

I do not know if I must launch LFE for my system to search for fonts.
The LFE documentation says all fonts from all folders are loaded into
memory on booting up. Is that true? It sounds like a lot of memory.

On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:53:13 -0500, Dave Balderstone wrote
(in article <030720061853139797%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca>):

> "Font Locations All fonts located at any of the following paths will be
> loaded into memory when your computer is started.
> € <user>/Library/Fonts: Fonts in this folder are available only to this
> particular user, who then has complete control over the folder's contents.
> € /Library/Fonts: Fonts in this folder are available to all users of a
> particular computer and not required by the operating system to run. Users
> with system administrator privileges can add, remove and modify the folder's
> contents.
> € /System/Library/Fonts: Contains the default fonts required by the
> operating system to run and should not be altered. These fonts are available
> to all users and cannot be deactivated.
> € /System Folder/Fonts: If Mac OS Classic is installed, fonts in this
> folder are available to all users."



--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas .....

On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:11:36 -0500, TaliesinSoft wrote
(in article < m>):

[in my immediately preceding posting in this thread]

> I also run Tiger (10.4.7) and I have more than 2,000 fonts, but I've never
> had a problem formatting a document and am puzzled what the difficulty is.

Oops, I made a misstatement. In actuality, according to Font Book I have
1,157 fonts and according to TypeSet I have 1,157 families which contain a
total of 1,663 typefaces.

That aside, Apple's own Font Book is my "manager" and TypeSet is my
"explorer".

--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas .....

On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:39:28 -0500, TaliesinSoft wrote
(in article < m>):

> On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:53:13 -0500, Dave Balderstone wrote
> (in article <030720061853139797%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone. ca>):
>
>> "Font Locations All fonts located at any of the following paths will be
>> loaded into memory when your computer is started.
>> € <user>/Library/Fonts: Fonts in this folder are available only to this
>> particular user, who then has complete control over the folder's contents.
>> € /Library/Fonts: Fonts in this folder are available to all users of a
>> particular computer and not required by the operating system to run. Users
>> with system administrator privileges can add, remove and modify the
>> folder's
>> contents.
>> € /System/Library/Fonts: Contains the default fonts required by the
>> operating system to run and should not be altered. These fonts are
>> available
>> to all users and cannot be deactivated.
>> € /System Folder/Fonts: If Mac OS Classic is installed, fonts in this
>> folder are available to all users."


Oops, oops, oops and a big "I'm sorry!" for clicking on the wrong button and
submitting an incomplete posting.


--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas .....

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <>, sawney beane
> <> wrote:
>
>> How much of your knowledge came from the Help menu with no need for
>> experience?
>
> I've been using Macs in publishing since the late '80s. My knowledge
> comes from both experience and reading documentation.

I started with an IBM 1620 in 1989 but didn't get a Mac until 1986.
Tiger and these two utilities are new to me. I haven't found as much in
the documentation as you say I should have found.

>
>> If you hadn't told I would not have guessed LFE activated
>> fonts from the FontsRemovedFromSystem folder
>
> The help file says, in "Import Fonts": "Drag & Drop files or folders on
> the Sources or the font list." It is also quite clear on activating and
> deactivating fonts once they are imported into LFE.

Why would I want to import? I want to put non-OEM fonts into a
FontsRemovedFromSystem folder to see if I have any call for them. So
far I haven't seen documentation that LFE activates fonts in that folder.

>
>> I do not know if I must launch LFE for my system to search for fonts.
>
> If LFE is not running, how can it be used for anything?

I can dial up without launching Internet Connect.

>
>> The LFE documentation says all fonts from all folders are loaded into
>> memory on booting up. Is that true? It sounds like a lot of memory.
>
> No, it says that all fonts in the four OS-defined font folders will be
> loaded into memory. In the "Font Locations" item:
>
> "Font Locations
> All fonts located at any of the following paths will be loaded into
> memory when your computer is started.
> € <user>/Library/Fonts: Fonts in this folder are available only to
> this particular user, who then has complete control over the folder's
> contents.
> € /Library/Fonts: Fonts in this folder are available to all users
> of a particular computer and not required by the operating system to
> run. Users with system administrator privileges can add, remove and
> modify the folder's contents.
> € /System/Library/Fonts: Contains the default fonts required by the
> operating system to run and should not be altered. These fonts are
> available to all users and cannot be deactivated.
> € /System Folder/Fonts: If Mac OS Classic is installed, fonts in
> this folder are available to all users."

That includes all 406 MB of my fonts. If LFE puts it all in memory,
that's a good reason not to run LFE.

>
> I have a sense we are talking at cross-purposes. Let me ask you what
> may sound like a basic question. It's not meant to be condescending or
> insulting, I sincerely would like to assist you in getting your fonts
> under control.
>
> The question is: What do you believe the term "font management" means,
> and how do you think Linotype FontExplorer fits into that definition on
> your Mac?

My fonts menu in Appleworks has approximately 200 items. It's hard even
to control scrolling in a menu that long. I asked how to remove items
from that menu. I was told to get a font manager.

If it were up to me, I'd get by on ten fonts.

TaliesinSoft wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 17:48:06 -0500, sawney beane wrote (in article
> <>):
>
>> I have Tiger. I have more than 400 fonts, which makes it hard to format a
>> document.
>
> I also run Tiger (10.4.7) and I have more than 2,000 fonts, but I've never
> had a problem formatting a document and am puzzled what the difficulty is.

In Appleworks I have a problem running down a menu of 200 to pick the
font I want.

>
>> I ran Monolingual to get rid of non-English fonts. Somehow I still have
>> Oriental and Arabic fonts.
>
> I felt no need to purge the system of non-English fonts. My understanding,
> possibly wrong, is that such fonts in System/Library/Fonts should not be
> removed.

Asian fonts on my menu in Appleworks are in my way.

>
>> My fonts are in four places: the System folder, the Library, my user
>> Library, and my Classic System folder. Linotype Font Explorer shows ten
>> font families that have been copied to more than one location. If I
>> delete some copies, in what location should I leave one?
>
> I have all of my fonts in either /System/Library/Fonts or in /Library/Fonts.
> I'm not running Classic but have moved the Classic fonts to /Library/Fonts.
> My font management tool of choice is Font Book, the default font manager that
> comes with OS X. I have used Font Book's export facility to encapsulate each
> font family within a containing folder and have clustered those folders
> within a "source" folder the name of which identifies the source of the
> contained font folders. Font Book can be used to disable redundant versions
> of a font.

I don't know why some fonts are in my user library. Maybe it's a scheme
to keep one user's fonts from cluttering another user's menus.

>
>> LFE can place all fonts that did not come with OSX in a folder. That
>> sounds like a start. If I find I need one of those fonts, to what
>> location should I move it?
>
> The one capability missing from Font Book is automatic activation of fonts,
> but to be honest, this is something the need of which has never been very
> important to me. Perhaps if I had it I would feel different, and maybe it
> will appear with Leopard.
>

How do you activate them? In Classic I would make a folder to store the
ones I didn't want active.

On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 21:38:48 -0500, sawney beane wrote (in article
<>):

> TaliesinSoft wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 17:48:06 -0500, sawney beane wrote (in article
>> <>):
>>
>>> I have Tiger. I have more than 400 fonts, which makes it hard to format
>>> a document.
>>
>> I also run Tiger (10.4.7) and I have more than 2,000 fonts, but I've
>> never had a problem formatting a document and am puzzled what the
>> difficulty is.
>
> In Appleworks I have a problem running down a menu of 200 to pick the font
> I want.

Apple's Font Book allows one to enable and disable fonts. Disabled fonts are
not removed from the fonts folders but they will not appear in the font menus
of applications. Also with Font Book one can create "collections" which are
arbitrary groupings of fonts. Collections also can be disabled and enabled at
will.

>>> I ran Monolingual to get rid of non-English fonts. Somehow I still have
>>> Oriental and Arabic fonts.
>>
>> I felt no need to purge the system of non-English fonts. My
>> understanding, possibly wrong, is that such fonts in System/Library/Fonts
>> should not be removed.
>
> Asian fonts on my menu in Appleworks are in my way.
>
>>
>>> My fonts are in four places: the System folder, the Library, my user
>>> Library, and my Classic System folder. Linotype Font Explorer shows ten
>>> font families that have been copied to more than one location. If I
>>> delete some copies, in what location should I leave one?
>>
>> I have all of my fonts in either /System/Library/Fonts or in
>> /Library/Fonts. I'm not running Classic but have moved the Classic fonts
>> to /Library/Fonts. My font management tool of choice is Font Book, the
>> default font manager that comes with OS X. I have used Font Book's export
>> facility to encapsulate each font family within a containing folder and
>> have clustered those folders within a "source" folder the name of which
>> identifies the source of the contained font folders. Font Book can be
>> used to disable redundant versions of a font.
>
> I don't know why some fonts are in my user library. Maybe it's a scheme
> to keep one user's fonts from cluttering another user's menus.




>>> LFE can place all fonts that did not come with OSX in a folder. That
>>> sounds like a start. If I find I need one of those fonts, to what
>>> location should I move it?
>>
>> The one capability missing from Font Book is automatic activation of
>> fonts, but to be honest, this is something the need of which has never
>> been very important to me. Perhaps if I had it I would feel different,
>> and maybe it will appear with Leopard.
>>
>
> How do you activate them? In Classic I would make a folder to store the
> ones I didn't want active.

As mentioned above, using Font Book, a disabled font will not appear in the
font menu of an application. If one needs to use a particular font one can
enable (activate) it individually or enable (activate) a collection in which
it is included.

As an aside, Font Book includes additional useful features such as being able
to identify and discard faulty fonts and, as mentioned in my original posting
in this thread, to cluster all of the various files constituting a family
into a single folder containing all of those files.

I find Font Book to be an exceedingly useful utility, one that blends well
into the file structure of the Mac. Not to be forgotten is that it is free!

--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas .....