Fonts 10.4 to 10.5

Since I had to have a fresh install on my new macpro , I have to do some
"due diligence" to check what needs to be transfered...

Looking at the list of fonts on my 10.4 system vs 10.5, I noticed 10.5
omitted some fonts.

Notably, CHICAGO, the mainstay for the apple menu since the birth of the
Macintosh computers...

Calibri
Cambria
Candara
Charcoal
Chicago
Consolas
Constantia
Corbel
Gadget
Monotype Corsiva
Monotype Sorts
New York
Sand
StSong
Techno
Textile

(I have omitted the ones I know I had manually added, and some of the
above may have been manual additions).

If you've upgraded from 10.4 to 10.5, I suspect you retained those
fonts, and if you did a fresh install, chances you are a new customer
and can't compare against older systems.

In article <00091776$0$2598$>,
JF Mezei <> wrote:

> Since I had to have a fresh install on my new macpro , I have to do some
> "due diligence" to check what needs to be transfered...
>
> Looking at the list of fonts on my 10.4 system vs 10.5, I noticed 10.5
> omitted some fonts.
>
> Notably, CHICAGO, the mainstay for the apple menu since the birth of the
> Macintosh computers...
>
> Calibri
> Cambria
> Candara
> Charcoal
> Chicago
> Consolas
> Constantia
> Corbel
> Gadget
> Monotype Corsiva
> Monotype Sorts
> New York
> Sand
> StSong
> Techno
> Textile
>
> (I have omitted the ones I know I had manually added, and some of the
> above may have been manual additions).

Most of your list is fonts you installed, these would be:

Calibri
Cambria
Candara
Consolas
Constantia
Corbel
Monotype Corsiva
Monotype Sorts
Sand
StSong
Techno
Textile

Chicago hasn't been the menu font for a very very long time. New York is
the old image writer font, it true form Times and Times New roman should
be part of your system fonts.

In article <00091776$0$2598$>,
JF Mezei <> wrote:

> Since I had to have a fresh install on my new macpro , I have to do some
> "due diligence" to check what needs to be transfered...
>
> Looking at the list of fonts on my 10.4 system vs 10.5, I noticed 10.5
> omitted some fonts.
>
> Notably, CHICAGO, the mainstay for the apple menu since the birth of the
> Macintosh computers...

Until Mac OS 8.

Chicago had its run. It had more than its run. It was created and hand
optimized for a relatively low resolution 1-bit display, and far
outlived those conditions.

I still shudder that the programming concern I used to work for once
created a promotional brochure that show code snippets in Chicago. I
told the marketing guy: "You know, no sane programmer would actually do
that, other than to freak out the guy at the next desk." He said he
knew, but it had achieved an iconic status as a font that said:
"Technology."

> Calibri
> Cambria
> Candara
> Charcoal
> Chicago
> Consolas
> Constantia
> Corbel
> Gadget
> Monotype Corsiva
> Monotype Sorts
> New York
> Sand
> StSong
> Techno
> Textile
>
> (I have omitted the ones I know I had manually added, and some of the
> above may have been manual additions).
>
> If you've upgraded from 10.4 to 10.5, I suspect you retained those
> fonts, and if you did a fresh install, chances you are a new customer
> and can't compare against older systems.

From that list, on my new mini, I have Charcoal CY, STSong. I got where
I am with this progression.

Purchased a PowerMac G5 4 years ago with 10.3.something.
Upgraded to 10.4 on the day of release and applied updates as they came
out.
Archive and Install of 10.5.6 this January.
Migration Assistant to the mini in mid-March.

The other fonts your missing aren't in the pre-migration archive I made
of my G5 or in the "previous system" left behind by the
archive-and-install in January. So I don't know where/when you got them,
but I don't think they've been part of the standard install at least
back to 10.3.

--
I saw a truck today that had "AAA Batteries / Delivered and Installed" on the
side. My first thought was: That's a really weird business model. How many
inept people have urgent need of skinny little battery cells?

On Sat, 2 May 2009 18:01:06 -0400, JF Mezei wrote
(in article <00091776$0$2598$>):

> Since I had to have a fresh install on my new macpro , I have to do some
> "due diligence" to check what needs to be transfered...
>
> Looking at the list of fonts on my 10.4 system vs 10.5, I noticed 10.5
> omitted some fonts.
>
> Notably, CHICAGO, the mainstay for the apple menu since the birth of the
> Macintosh computers...
>
> Calibri

That font is installed as part of MS Office.

> Cambria

That font is installed as part of MS Office.

> Candara

That font is installed as part of MS Office.

> Charcoal

An old TrueType font.

> Chicago

An old TrueType font. Used to be a bitmapped font from Mac System 1 days.

> Consolas

That font is installed as part of MS Office.

> Constantia

That font is installed as part of MS Office.

> Corbel

That font is installed as part of MS Office.

> Gadget

An old TrueType font.

> Monotype Corsiva

That font is installed as part of MS Office.

> Monotype Sorts

That font is installed as part of MS Office.

> New York

An old TrueType font. Used to be a bitmapped font from Mac System 1 days.

> Sand

An old TrueType font.

> StSong

An old TrueType font.

> Techno

An old TrueType font.

> Textile

An old TrueType font.

>
> (I have omitted the ones I know I had manually added, and some of the
> above may have been manual additions).
>
> If you've upgraded from 10.4 to 10.5, I suspect you retained those
> fonts, and if you did a fresh install, chances you are a new customer
> and can't compare against older systems.

Most of those fonts are actually fonts installed with MS Office.

--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.

On Sat, 2 May 2009 19:00:50 -0400, Gregory Weston wrote
(in article <uce->):

> In article <00091776$0$2598$>,
> JF Mezei <> wrote:
>
>> Since I had to have a fresh install on my new macpro , I have to do some
>> "due diligence" to check what needs to be transfered...
>>
>> Looking at the list of fonts on my 10.4 system vs 10.5, I noticed 10.5
>> omitted some fonts.
>>
>> Notably, CHICAGO, the mainstay for the apple menu since the birth of the
>> Macintosh computers...
>
> Until Mac OS 8.
>
> Chicago had its run. It had more than its run. It was created and hand
> optimized for a relatively low resolution 1-bit display, and far
> outlived those conditions.
>
> I still shudder that the programming concern I used to work for once
> created a promotional brochure that show code snippets in Chicago. I
> told the marketing guy: "You know, no sane programmer would actually do
> that, other than to freak out the guy at the next desk." He said he
> knew, but it had achieved an iconic status as a font that said:
> "Technology."
>
>> Calibri
>> Cambria
>> Candara
>> Charcoal
>> Chicago
>> Consolas
>> Constantia
>> Corbel
>> Gadget
>> Monotype Corsiva
>> Monotype Sorts
>> New York
>> Sand
>> StSong
>> Techno
>> Textile
>>
>> (I have omitted the ones I know I had manually added, and some of the
>> above may have been manual additions).
>>
>> If you've upgraded from 10.4 to 10.5, I suspect you retained those
>> fonts, and if you did a fresh install, chances you are a new customer
>> and can't compare against older systems.
>
> From that list, on my new mini, I have Charcoal CY, STSong. I got where
> I am with this progression.
>
> Purchased a PowerMac G5 4 years ago with 10.3.something.
> Upgraded to 10.4 on the day of release and applied updates as they came
> out.
> Archive and Install of 10.5.6 this January.
> Migration Assistant to the mini in mid-March.
>
> The other fonts your missing aren't in the pre-migration archive I made
> of my G5 or in the "previous system" left behind by the
> archive-and-install in January. So I don't know where/when you got them,
> but I don't think they've been part of the standard install at least
> back to 10.3.
>
>

He got a bunch of them from MS Office, and at least a few more from something
like AppleWorks.

--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.

OS X 10.5 (Leopard) installs 102 font families, some families containing
multiple faces.


Here are the 18 font families installed by default into System/Library/Fonts

Apple Braille
Apple Symbols
AppleGothic
Courier
Geeza Pro
Geneva
Helvetica
Helvetica Neue
Hiragino Kaku Gothic ProN
Hiragino Mincho ProN
LiHei Pro
Lucida Grande
Monaco
STHeiti
Symbol
Thonburi
Times
Zapf Dingbats


Here are the 84 font families installed by default into Library/Fonts

#GungSeo
#HeadLineA
#PCMyungjo
#PilGi
Al Bayan
American Typewriter
Andale Mono
Apple Chancery
Apple LiGothic
Apple LiSung
AppleMyungjo
Arial
Arial Black
Arial Hebrew
Arial Narrow
Arial Rounded MT Bold
Arial Unicode MS
Ayuthaya
Baghdad
Baskerville
BiauKai
Big Caslon
Brush Script MT
Chalkboard
Charcoal CY
Cochin
Comic Sans MS
Copperplate
Corsiva Hebrew
Courier New
DecoType Naskh
Devanagari MT
Didot
Euphemia UCAS
Futura
GB18030 Bitmap
Geneva CY
Georgia
Gill Sans
Gujarati MT
Gurmukhi MT
Hei
Helvetica CY
Herculanum
Hiragino Kaku Gothic Pro
Hiragino Kaku Gothic Std
Hiragino Kaku Gothic StdN
Hiragino Maru Gothic Pro
Hiragino Maru Gothic ProN
Hiragino Mincho Pro
Hoefler Text
Impact
InaiMathi
Kai
Kailasa
Kokonor
Krungthep
KufiStandardGK
LiSong Pro
Marker Felt
Microsoft Sans Serif
Mshtakan
Nadeem
New Peninim MT
Optima
Osaka
Papyrus
Plantagenet Cherokee
Raanana
Sathu
Silom
Skia
STFangsong
STKaiti
STSong
Tahoma
Times New Roman
Trebuchet MS
Verdana
Webdings
Wingdings
Wingdings 2
Wingdings 3
Zapfino

--
James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas .....

In article <00091776$0$2598$>,
JF Mezei <> wrote:

> Since I had to have a fresh install on my new macpro , I have to do some
> "due diligence" to check what needs to be transfered...
>
> Looking at the list of fonts on my 10.4 system vs 10.5, I noticed 10.5
> omitted some fonts.
>
> Notably, CHICAGO, the mainstay for the apple menu since the birth of the
> Macintosh computers...

.... until OS 8 when Geneva became the default system font.

> Calibri
> Cambria
> Candara
> Consolas
> Constantia
> Corbel
> Monotype Corsiva
> Monotype Sorts

Never included with any Mac operating system, as far as I know.

> Charcoal
> Chicago
> Gadget
> New York
> Techno
> Textile

I believe these were never included with OS X except as part of Classic, which
won't run on Intel Macs.

> Sand

I think this is a Classic-only font too. The only copy I have is in my OS 9
system folder, and it's not on Apple's list of fonts included with 10.3.

> StSong

Should be installed on OS 10.5 by default, but can be disabled, and it might be
listed by its Chinese name. Not present on my 10.4 system, but I might have
removed it.

Apple's website lists the fonts included with 10.3, 10.4, and 10.5:

10.3: <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25710>
10.4: <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301332>
10.5: <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=307069>

In article < ET>,
TaliesinSoft <> wrote:

> OS X 10.5 (Leopard) installs 102 font families, some families containing
> multiple faces.

I've never quite understood why it is, or how it can be, that this many
fonts are needed? -- or perhaps I should phrase it, I've always wondered
whether the real needs of the vast majority of users (like maybe 99.5%
of us) could not be met with maybe 10 or 20 font families at most?

If so, and if most of these 102 increasingly arcane families really
represent holdovers from ancient history and ancient practices, keeping
track of fonts could be immensely simplified for the majority of us by
cutting the standard install to a dozen or two fonts, while letting
those font fanatics who insist on ever more obscure and unnecessary font
variations be allowed to complicate their systems to any level they
liked.

In article
<wayne.morris->,
"Wayne C. Morris" <> wrote:

> ... until OS 8 when Geneva became the default system font.

Geneva was never the default system font on Mac OS.


Steve

On Sat, 2 May 2009 22:16:51 -0400, AES wrote
(in article <siegman->):

> In article < ET>,
> TaliesinSoft <> wrote:
>
>> OS X 10.5 (Leopard) installs 102 font families, some families containing
>> multiple faces.
>
> I've never quite understood why it is, or how it can be, that this many
> fonts are needed? -- or perhaps I should phrase it, I've always wondered
> whether the real needs of the vast majority of users (like maybe 99.5%
> of us) could not be met with maybe 10 or 20 font families at most?
>
> If so, and if most of these 102 increasingly arcane families really
> represent holdovers from ancient history and ancient practices, keeping
> track of fonts could be immensely simplified for the majority of us by
> cutting the standard install to a dozen or two fonts, while letting
> those font fanatics who insist on ever more obscure and unnecessary font
> variations be allowed to complicate their systems to any level they
> liked.

A very large chunk of those 102 font families cover non-Latin character sets.
Cyrillic. Japanese. Thai. Korean. Chinese. Hindi. Hebrew. Arabic. Others are
specialist dingbat character sets. And some are system support character
sets.

The default 18 are:

Apple Braille

Non-Latin character set, for the blind.

Apple Symbols

Non-Latin.

AppleGothic

System support.

Courier

Standard PostScript fixed-length serif Latin character set.

Geeza Pro

Non-Latin.

Geneva

System support.

Helvetica

Standard PostScript fixed-length serif Latin character set.

Helvetica Neue

Standard PostScript sans-serif Latin character set.

Hiragino Kaku Gothic ProN

Non-Latin.

Hiragino Mincho ProN

Non-Latin.

LiHei Pro

Non-Latin.

Lucida Grande

System support.

Monaco

System support

STHeiti

Non-Latin.

Symbol

Standard PostScript Greek character set.

Thonburi

Non-Latin

Times

Standard PostScript serif Latin character set.

Zapf Dingbats

Standard PostScript dingbats character set.

You can have a look at the other 84 yourself. You'll find that many are
obvious non-Latin (anything with 'Hebrew' in its name, or with obvious
Chinese, Arabic, Hindi, Japanese, or Korean names, for example...) or are
obvious dingbat character sets (anything with 'ding' in its name...) and
simply have to be present in order to allow the system to be used
internationally. Including on the Internet; many of those character sets are
automatically used when necessary if the user visits a web page which has,
for example, Hebrew or Chinese or Japanese embedded. If you visit
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiryu>, for example, the page displays the name
of HIJMS HIRYU in Japanese characters as well as in the Latin character set.
Which would not be possible if Apple hadn't included a full set of Japanese
characters into the standard fonts; there'd be funny little blocks there
instead. Those who don't use Japanese on a regular basis may get little use
out of the Japanese character sets installed as part of the standard setup,
but those who _do_ use Japanese will do so... and this is a selling point in
Japan. And Korea. And China. And India. And Thailand. And Russia and Serbia.
And anywhere where there are lots of Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Indians, and
Thais. And anywhere where the Cyrillic alphabet is used.


--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.