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Fried OptiPlex GX110 Power Supply

 
 





















Richard
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      07-07-2003, 08:02 PM


My trusty GX110 got hit by a power outtage last night--went right through
the so-called surge protector and stunk up the whole basement with
"electrical fire" smell.

Can anyone help me with these questions:

1) How good are the odds that a new power supply will get the box up and
running (ie, that the board, etc., didn't get fried as well)?

2) What replacement options are there from Dell (first choice) or some other
supplier?

Thanks for any help.



 
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Richard
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      07-07-2003, 10:54 PM
I answered my second question with www.pcpowercooling.com

Still wondering if anyone's had a Dell PC take a bad power hit and pull
through with just a swap of power supply.

"Richard" <> wrote in message
> My trusty GX110 got hit by a power outtage last night--went right through
> the so-called surge protector and stunk up the whole basement with
> "electrical fire" smell.
>
> Can anyone help me with these questions:
>
> 1) How good are the odds that a new power supply will get the box up and
> running (ie, that the board, etc., didn't get fried as well)?
>
> 2) What replacement options are there from Dell (first choice) or some

other
> supplier?
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
>
>



 
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Pen
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      07-07-2003, 11:02 PM
The chances are something else went if the machine was on. If off
it's 50/50, but a physical inspection might give some good clues.
Frankly I would just claim the whole thing on my homeowners
insurance rather than mess with it.

"Richard" <> wrote in message
news:B_lOa.34165$...
> I answered my second question with www.pcpowercooling.com
>
> Still wondering if anyone's had a Dell PC take a bad power hit and

pull
> through with just a swap of power supply.
>
> "Richard" <> wrote in message
> > My trusty GX110 got hit by a power outtage last night--went right

through
> > the so-called surge protector and stunk up the whole basement with
> > "electrical fire" smell.
> >
> > Can anyone help me with these questions:
> >
> > 1) How good are the odds that a new power supply will get the box

up and
> > running (ie, that the board, etc., didn't get fried as well)?
> >
> > 2) What replacement options are there from Dell (first choice) or

some
> other
> > supplier?
> >
> > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >
> >

>
>


 
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HH
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      07-08-2003, 12:02 AM
With only a surge protector, I'd wager the motherboard is gone. Next time
use a UPS. APC and Belkin make good ones.
HH

"Richard" <> wrote in message
news:B_lOa.34165$...
> I answered my second question with www.pcpowercooling.com
>
> Still wondering if anyone's had a Dell PC take a bad power hit and pull
> through with just a swap of power supply.
>
> "Richard" <> wrote in message
> > My trusty GX110 got hit by a power outtage last night--went right

through
> > the so-called surge protector and stunk up the whole basement with
> > "electrical fire" smell.
> >
> > Can anyone help me with these questions:
> >
> > 1) How good are the odds that a new power supply will get the box up and
> > running (ie, that the board, etc., didn't get fried as well)?
> >
> > 2) What replacement options are there from Dell (first choice) or some

> other
> > supplier?
> >
> > Thanks for any help.
> >
> >
> >

>
>



 
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Richard
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      07-08-2003, 03:27 PM

"HH" <> wrote
> With only a surge protector, I'd wager the motherboard is gone. Next time
> use a UPS. APC and Belkin make good ones.


I ordered a Belkin UPS along with the refurb Dell desktop that will replace
the GX110. 20 years of using surge protectors only, and it's the first time
this has happened. We just moved into our home, and the neighbors say
that we're prone to about six power outtages a summer. Good call on the
UPS--I ordered the cheap one, though. Maybe I should rethink that...

An HP D135 printer on the same surge protector is toast, too. Looks like
it's time to take that suggestion about filing a homeowner's insurance
claim.

I ordered a power supply in the off chance that will breathe life back into
the GX110. Doesn't sound like the odds are too good, though.

Thanks for the guidance, folks.

I sure hope the disks are OK.



 
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Richard
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      07-09-2003, 02:06 AM

"w_tom" <> wrote in message
news:...
> 1) You are confusing power outages with surges. Two different
> electrical events. Power outages may result from a
> destructive surge. But surges occur typically once every
> "eight" years. How often are power outages?


No, I'm not confusing outage with surge. The event was a power
outage, and judging from the smell coming from my Dell GX110
was immediately preceeded by a pretty good surge. We've had
other outages without incident. Local power authority says that
this outage was caused by the loss of a major power line.

Neighbors say outages in our neighborhood average about six
a summer. Average duration, about an hour.

That said, I'll immediately look into having "whole house"
protection put in place, and I thank you for bringing this up
and explaining it so clearly.

> Motherboard is gone because no surge protector made a less
> than 10 foot connection to the most critical 'system'
> component - surge protection - single point earth ground.


Next stupid question of mine: Does "motherboard gone" mean
motherboard, CPU, RAM, and possibly the disk controllers
are all gone?

Thanks for the reference to the discussion at alt.cert*.a-plus.
I've just started reading it, and it looks very informative.

Best regards,
Richard


 
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w_tom
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      07-09-2003, 02:15 AM
Power supply can be tested separately - albeit more complex
- as demonstrated by that site that also provided voltage
chart:
http://www.hardwaresite.net/faqpowersupply.html

Motherboard is rather more complex. But power supply
controller function on motherboard can be observed by
monitoring those purple and green wire voltages.

How a motherboard is damaged can reveal other problems. For
example, if a motherboard is mounted using multiple conductive
standoffs, then more potentially destructive paths exist for a
common mode surge - numerous points of damage. Single point
conductive standoff near power connector makes a motherboard
more resilient to surge damage and even crashes due to static
electric shocks.

Power supplies must contain overvoltage protection as
required 30 years ago and by Intel specs. However if that OVP
is not installed in power supply (and it usually does not
exist in sub $80 power supplies), then a power supply failure
or a failure caused by external events may easily destroy all
ICs on motherboard, hard drive, RAM, etc.

It is not possible without detailed technical documents to
determine if motherboard verses CPU are damaged. Only way is
to test each in another known good system. BTW, previous test
using only motherboard and power supply assumed CPU was also
installed.

Surges form a path through system. Only when a part has
both incoming and outgoing path, can that part be damaged.
Classic example of surge damage is incoming on AC electric,
bypassing power supply using a direct connection from AC
electric wire to chassis, through motherboard ground plane and
modem, then outgoing on phone line to earth ground. Only item
typically damaged is modem's DAA section - often the off hook
relay or current limiting resistors. Classic error message is
'No Dialtone Detected'.

Motherboard IC were all exposed to same surge. But
motherboard ICs had no outgoing surge path - therefore not
damaged. That isolation is an important reason by some parts
can be damaged and others are not.

However a power supply overvoltage can literally damage most
every IC on motherboard, disk drive, etc. This failure is so
catastrophic that all power supplies must have OVP - although
too many have no such function to sell at less than $80.

This gives but some idea how system destruction could
happen. If simply an AC mains surge, then damage would be
limited. However if power supply did not have OVP, then
damage could be to everything - except maybe CPU that has its
own voltage regulator. Just some ideas of how to determine
what is damaged - and why.

Richard wrote:
> "w_tom" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> 1) You are confusing power outages with surges. Two different
>> electrical events. Power outages may result from a
>> destructive surge. But surges occur typically once every
>> "eight" years. How often are power outages?

>
> No, I'm not confusing outage with surge. The event was a power
> outage, and judging from the smell coming from my Dell GX110
> was immediately preceeded by a pretty good surge. We've had
> other outages without incident. Local power authority says that
> this outage was caused by the loss of a major power line.
>
> Neighbors say outages in our neighborhood average about six
> a summer. Average duration, about an hour.
>
> That said, I'll immediately look into having "whole house"
> protection put in place, and I thank you for bringing this up
> and explaining it so clearly.
>
>> Motherboard is gone because no surge protector made a less
>> than 10 foot connection to the most critical 'system'
>> component - surge protection - single point earth ground.

>
> Next stupid question of mine: Does "motherboard gone" mean
> motherboard, CPU, RAM, and possibly the disk controllers
> are all gone?
>
> Thanks for the reference to the discussion at alt.cert*.a-plus.
> I've just started reading it, and it looks very informative.
>
> Best regards,
> Richard

 
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Richard
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      07-09-2003, 11:14 PM
I just got the replacement refurb Dell, and swapped the disks
from the fried PC in. Several attempts to boot got me either:

1) Unable to locate hard disk 0 or 1

or

2) Windows 2000 Pro screen, followed by Blue Screen of
Death with an INACCESSIBLE BOOT DEVICE message.

Doesn't look too good for the disk drives, I'd say.

"w_tom" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Power supply can be tested separately - albeit more complex
> - as demonstrated by that site that also provided voltage
> chart:
> http://www.hardwaresite.net/faqpowersupply.html
>
> Motherboard is rather more complex. But power supply
> controller function on motherboard can be observed by
> monitoring those purple and green wire voltages.
>
> How a motherboard is damaged can reveal other problems. For
> example, if a motherboard is mounted using multiple conductive
> standoffs, then more potentially destructive paths exist for a
> common mode surge - numerous points of damage. Single point
> conductive standoff near power connector makes a motherboard
> more resilient to surge damage and even crashes due to static
> electric shocks.
>
> Power supplies must contain overvoltage protection as
> required 30 years ago and by Intel specs. However if that OVP
> is not installed in power supply (and it usually does not
> exist in sub $80 power supplies), then a power supply failure
> or a failure caused by external events may easily destroy all
> ICs on motherboard, hard drive, RAM, etc.
>
> It is not possible without detailed technical documents to
> determine if motherboard verses CPU are damaged. Only way is
> to test each in another known good system. BTW, previous test
> using only motherboard and power supply assumed CPU was also
> installed.
>
> Surges form a path through system. Only when a part has
> both incoming and outgoing path, can that part be damaged.
> Classic example of surge damage is incoming on AC electric,
> bypassing power supply using a direct connection from AC
> electric wire to chassis, through motherboard ground plane and
> modem, then outgoing on phone line to earth ground. Only item
> typically damaged is modem's DAA section - often the off hook
> relay or current limiting resistors. Classic error message is
> 'No Dialtone Detected'.
>
> Motherboard IC were all exposed to same surge. But
> motherboard ICs had no outgoing surge path - therefore not
> damaged. That isolation is an important reason by some parts
> can be damaged and others are not.
>
> However a power supply overvoltage can literally damage most
> every IC on motherboard, disk drive, etc. This failure is so
> catastrophic that all power supplies must have OVP - although
> too many have no such function to sell at less than $80.
>
> This gives but some idea how system destruction could
> happen. If simply an AC mains surge, then damage would be
> limited. However if power supply did not have OVP, then
> damage could be to everything - except maybe CPU that has its
> own voltage regulator. Just some ideas of how to determine
> what is damaged - and why.
>
> Richard wrote:
> > "w_tom" <> wrote in message
> > news:...
> >> 1) You are confusing power outages with surges. Two different
> >> electrical events. Power outages may result from a
> >> destructive surge. But surges occur typically once every
> >> "eight" years. How often are power outages?

> >
> > No, I'm not confusing outage with surge. The event was a power
> > outage, and judging from the smell coming from my Dell GX110
> > was immediately preceeded by a pretty good surge. We've had
> > other outages without incident. Local power authority says that
> > this outage was caused by the loss of a major power line.
> >
> > Neighbors say outages in our neighborhood average about six
> > a summer. Average duration, about an hour.
> >
> > That said, I'll immediately look into having "whole house"
> > protection put in place, and I thank you for bringing this up
> > and explaining it so clearly.
> >
> >> Motherboard is gone because no surge protector made a less
> >> than 10 foot connection to the most critical 'system'
> >> component - surge protection - single point earth ground.

> >
> > Next stupid question of mine: Does "motherboard gone" mean
> > motherboard, CPU, RAM, and possibly the disk controllers
> > are all gone?
> >
> > Thanks for the reference to the discussion at alt.cert*.a-plus.
> > I've just started reading it, and it looks very informative.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Richard



 
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