I have a motherboard by Microstar International of Taiwan, ie MSI P35-
Neo2-FR. This board has a fundamental design flaw. The Al888T audio
chip has too little power and the BIOS are screwed up. When I disable
the audio feature in the integrated peripherals in BIOS, the board
freezes. You cannot disable the audio in the BIOS. That is why, this
board which has 4 heat pipes is in the $115 price range, where as
similar boards by Gigabyte are in $200 price range. But Gigabyte uses
the audio codec by the same company, Realtek. Most of the feedbacks in
the newegg and other sites are bogus and by the vendors. Probably,
their design engineers wrote them, because some of the work arounds
simply need too detailed info of the internals.

MSI is a terrible Taiwanese company. Another Terrible Taiwanese
company is Gigabyte. Both are located in the City of Industry,
California. It would be interesting to try to call their 626 numbers
and get in touch with their tech support. You will be hearing their
music all day long.

Asus does not have a 800 number and try ever getting to their tech
support, and this is despite the fact that asus charges arm and leg.
The fact is that Asus does not have good quality for the right price
either.

Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?

Hadrian

On Nov 1, 3:30 pm, pc.expert...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a motherboard by Microstar International of Taiwan, ie MSI P35-
> Neo2-FR. This board has a fundamental design flaw. The Al888T audio
> chip has too little power and the BIOS are screwed up. When I disable
> the audio feature in the integrated peripherals in BIOS, the board
> freezes. You cannot disable the audio in the BIOS. That is why, this
> board which has 4 heat pipes is in the $115 price range, where as
> similar boards by Gigabyte are in $200 price range. But Gigabyte uses
> the audio codec by the same company, Realtek. Most of the feedbacks in
> the newegg and other sites are bogus and by the vendors. Probably,
> their design engineers wrote them, because some of the work arounds
> simply need too detailed info of the internals.
>
> MSI is a terrible Taiwanese company. Another Terrible Taiwanese
> company is Gigabyte. Both are located in the City of Industry,
> California. It would be interesting to try to call their 626 numbers
> and get in touch with their tech support. You will be hearing their
> music all day long.
>
> Asus does not have a 800 number and try ever getting to their tech
> support, and this is despite the fact that asus charges arm and leg.
> The fact is that Asus does not have good quality for the right price
> either.
>
> Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
> quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?
>
> Hadrian

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:30:00 +0000, pc.expertise rearranged some electrons
to say:

>
>
> Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
> quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?
>
> Hadrian

Try Intel.

wrote:
> I have a motherboard by Microstar International of Taiwan, ie MSI P35-
> Neo2-FR. This board has a fundamental design flaw. The Al888T audio
> chip has too little power and the BIOS are screwed up. When I disable
> the audio feature in the integrated peripherals in BIOS, the board
> freezes. You cannot disable the audio in the BIOS. That is why, this
> board which has 4 heat pipes is in the $115 price range, where as
> similar boards by Gigabyte are in $200 price range. But Gigabyte uses
> the audio codec by the same company, Realtek. Most of the feedbacks in
> the newegg and other sites are bogus and by the vendors. Probably,
> their design engineers wrote them, because some of the work arounds
> simply need too detailed info of the internals.
>
> MSI is a terrible Taiwanese company. Another Terrible Taiwanese
> company is Gigabyte. Both are located in the City of Industry,
> California. It would be interesting to try to call their 626 numbers
> and get in touch with their tech support. You will be hearing their
> music all day long.
>
> Asus does not have a 800 number and try ever getting to their tech
> support, and this is despite the fact that asus charges arm and leg.
> The fact is that Asus does not have good quality for the right price
> either.
>

You must have had bad experiences with ASUS as mine were the exact
opposite. In over ten years of buying their boards I have had one with
a problem. I got hold of their tech support in a couple of minutes and
had a RMA shortly afterwards. A little over a week later I had a
replacement board. Why you feel this is bad service, or that ASUS makes
bad boards I don't see. I started using their boards after a
recommendation from a friend at Microsoft who said that a lot of the
people there were using their boards.
I don't expect any company to make upgrades available for their hardware
years after it was released but ASUS does. When I bought a P2B-S
motherboard the highest Pentium available was only capable of going up
to 450 MHz. I later upgraded the BIOS and installed an 850 MHz CPU in
and everything worked as if the board was designed for the processor.
I might have bought cheaper motherboards in the past but reliability and
ease of setup are far more important to me than a couple of dollars
savings, especially if I don't have to replace the board every time I
want to do an upgrade.

> Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
> quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?
>
> Hadrian
>

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:30:00 -0000,
wrote:

>I have a motherboard by Microstar International of Taiwan, ie MSI P35-
>Neo2-FR. This board has a fundamental design flaw. The Al888T audio
>chip has too little power and the BIOS are screwed up. When I disable
>the audio feature in the integrated peripherals in BIOS, the board
>freezes. You cannot disable the audio in the BIOS. That is why, this
>board which has 4 heat pipes is in the $115 price range, where as
>similar boards by Gigabyte are in $200 price range. But Gigabyte uses
>the audio codec by the same company, Realtek. Most of the feedbacks in
>the newegg and other sites are bogus and by the vendors. Probably,
>their design engineers wrote them, because some of the work arounds
>simply need too detailed info of the internals.
>
>MSI is a terrible Taiwanese company. Another Terrible Taiwanese
>company is Gigabyte. Both are located in the City of Industry,
>California. It would be interesting to try to call their 626 numbers
>and get in touch with their tech support. You will be hearing their
>music all day long.
>
>Asus does not have a 800 number and try ever getting to their tech
>support, and this is despite the fact that asus charges arm and leg.
>The fact is that Asus does not have good quality for the right price
>either.
>
>Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
>quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?
>
>Hadrian


Motherboards have short product lives and it's sometimes
amazing how quickly they can spin out new versions.

No board is perfect and this even ignores manufacturing
flaws. That you might have some examples from one
manufacturer or another of occasional problems is no reason
to ignore any of the major brands in general.

Buy a name brand board and don't get too picky about it
being better than 99% working... most people who feel theirs
is any better than that, just haven't came across the
particular flaw(s) present in theirs because every system
and use is a little bit different.

In alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt kony <> wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:30:00 -0000,
>wrote:
>
>>I have a motherboard by Microstar International of Taiwan, ie MSI P35-
>>Neo2-FR. This board has a fundamental design flaw. The Al888T audio
>>chip has too little power and the BIOS are screwed up. When I disable
>>the audio feature in the integrated peripherals in BIOS, the board
>>freezes. You cannot disable the audio in the BIOS. That is why, this
>>board which has 4 heat pipes is in the $115 price range, where as
>>similar boards by Gigabyte are in $200 price range. But Gigabyte uses
>>the audio codec by the same company, Realtek. Most of the feedbacks in
>>the newegg and other sites are bogus and by the vendors. Probably,
>>their design engineers wrote them, because some of the work arounds
>>simply need too detailed info of the internals.
>>
>>MSI is a terrible Taiwanese company. Another Terrible Taiwanese
>>company is Gigabyte. Both are located in the City of Industry,
>>California. It would be interesting to try to call their 626 numbers
>>and get in touch with their tech support. You will be hearing their
>>music all day long.
>>
>>Asus does not have a 800 number and try ever getting to their tech
>>support, and this is despite the fact that asus charges arm and leg.
>>The fact is that Asus does not have good quality for the right price
>>either.
>>
>>Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
>>quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?
>>
>>Hadrian
>
>
>Motherboards have short product lives and it's sometimes
>amazing how quickly they can spin out new versions.
>
>No board is perfect and this even ignores manufacturing
>flaws. That you might have some examples from one
>manufacturer or another of occasional problems is no reason
>to ignore any of the major brands in general.
>
>Buy a name brand board and don't get too picky about it
>being better than 99% working... most people who feel theirs
>is any better than that, just haven't came across the
>particular flaw(s) present in theirs because every system
>and use is a little bit different.

I have yet to find a motherboard without a flaw.
I *try* to buy motherboards whose flaws I personally can live with.
Sometimes that's incredibly difficult; especially when I'm constrained
by buying (or already having) a particular processor I can afford; or
having previously-acquired boards that I need to match my particular
use. ;-{

(For example: I *need* two floppy drives; never mind why. My present
mobo is the first one I've had that for some strange reason only
supports *one* floppy. So ... I bought an ATA floppy drive. It works;
but means I only have three other ATA slots; that are now all full.)


--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_

On Nov 1, 4:03 pm, david <n...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:30:00 +0000, pc.expertise rearranged some electrons
> to say:
>
>
>
> > Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
> > quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?
>
> > Hadrian
>
> Try Intel.

Any feature equivalent motherboard to the MSI one I am talking about ?

On Nov 1, 5:09 pm, "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwry...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
> pc.expert...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I have a motherboard by Microstar International of Taiwan, ie MSI P35-
> > Neo2-FR. This board has a fundamental design flaw. The Al888T audio
> > chip has too little power and the BIOS are screwed up. When I disable
> > the audio feature in the integrated peripherals in BIOS, the board
> > freezes. You cannot disable the audio in the BIOS. That is why, this
> > board which has 4 heat pipes is in the $115 price range, where as
> > similar boards by Gigabyte are in $200 price range. But Gigabyte uses
> > the audio codec by the same company, Realtek. Most of the feedbacks in
> > the newegg and other sites are bogus and by the vendors. Probably,
> > their design engineers wrote them, because some of the work arounds
> > simply need too detailed info of the internals.
>
> > MSI is a terrible Taiwanese company. Another Terrible Taiwanese
> > company is Gigabyte. Both are located in the City of Industry,
> > California. It would be interesting to try to call their 626 numbers
> > and get in touch with their tech support. You will be hearing their
> > music all day long.
>
> > Asus does not have a 800 number and try ever getting to their tech
> > support, and this is despite the fact that asus charges arm and leg.
> > The fact is that Asus does not have good quality for the right price
> > either.
>
> You must have had bad experiences with ASUS as mine were the exact
> opposite. In over ten years of buying their boards I have had one with
> a problem. I got hold of their tech support in a couple of minutes and
> had a RMA shortly afterwards. A little over a week later I had a
> replacement board. Why you feel this is bad service, or that ASUS makes
> bad boards I don't see. I started using their boards after a
> recommendation from a friend at Microsoft who said that a lot of the
> people there were using their boards.
> I don't expect any company to make upgrades available for their hardware
> years after it was released but ASUS does. When I bought a P2B-S
> motherboard the highest Pentium available was only capable of going up
> to 450 MHz. I later upgraded the BIOS and installed an 850 MHz CPU in
> and everything worked as if the board was designed for the processor.
> I might have bought cheaper motherboards in the past but reliability and
> ease of setup are far more important to me than a couple of dollars
> savings, especially if I don't have to replace the board every time I
> want to do an upgrade.

Actually, I have an ASUS motherboard. Its BIOS are NOT BEING provided
by ASUS but are being sold by Phoenix or AMI BIOS which ever wrote
them
originally. ASUS NEVER BOTHERED TO UPGRADE THEIR BIOS AND
PROVIDE CUSTOMERS FOR FREE. That feature has to do with the
addressing of the recent large EIDE hard drives. The conclusion about
ASUS
is that it is selling the same cheap crap as the Taiwanese companies.
Its
just that their people speak better english and are a little more
politically
correct. But not necessarily, actually correct.

For example, I would like to know what codec ASUS MB offer and for
what
cost? Their MB has no heat pipes but still it is as expensive as MSI.
With
heat pipes it is in $250-300 range. so they already charged for
replacement.
MSI was not bad for replacement, once you found a way over the hurdles
they erected.

> > Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
> > quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?
>
> > Hadrian

On Nov 1, 5:26 pm, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:30:00 -0000, pc.expert...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I have a motherboard by Microstar International of Taiwan, ie MSI P35-
> >Neo2-FR. This board has a fundamental design flaw. The Al888T audio
> >chip has too little power and the BIOS are screwed up. When I disable
> >the audio feature in the integrated peripherals in BIOS, the board
> >freezes. You cannot disable the audio in the BIOS. That is why, this
> >board which has 4 heat pipes is in the $115 price range, where as
> >similar boards by Gigabyte are in $200 price range. But Gigabyte uses
> >the audio codec by the same company, Realtek. Most of the feedbacks in
> >the newegg and other sites are bogus and by the vendors. Probably,
> >their design engineers wrote them, because some of the work arounds
> >simply need too detailed info of the internals.
>
> >MSI is a terrible Taiwanese company. Another Terrible Taiwanese
> >company is Gigabyte. Both are located in the City of Industry,
> >California. It would be interesting to try to call their 626 numbers
> >and get in touch with their tech support. You will be hearing their
> >music all day long.
>
> >Asus does not have a 800 number and try ever getting to their tech
> >support, and this is despite the fact that asus charges arm and leg.
> >The fact is that Asus does not have good quality for the right price
> >either.
>
> >Anyone know a good motherboard company for the core 2 duo and core 2
> >quad CPU by Intel and using DDR2 800MHz memory, 4 slots, upto 8Gig ?
>
> >Hadrian
>
> Motherboards have short product lives and it's sometimes
> amazing how quickly they can spin out new versions.

One the contrary, if you consider your data as critical, all of
the PC including MB is a critical component for any end user.

The above attitude is a tremendous disrespect for an end user.

> No board is perfect and this even ignores manufacturing
> flaws. That you might have some examples from one
> manufacturer or another of occasional problems is no reason
> to ignore any of the major brands in general.
>
> Buy a name brand board and don't get too picky about it
> being better than 99% working... most people who feel theirs
> is any better than that, just haven't came across the
> particular flaw(s) present in theirs because every system
> and use is a little bit different.

>
> You must have had bad experiences with ASUS as mine were the exact
> opposite. In over ten years of buying their boards I have had one with
> a problem. I got hold of their tech support in a couple of minutes and
> had a RMA shortly afterwards. A little over a week later I had a
> replacement board. Why you feel this is bad service, or that ASUS makes
> bad boards I don't see. I started using their boards after a
> recommendation from a friend at Microsoft who said that a lot of the
> people there were using their boards.
> I don't expect any company to make upgrades available for their hardware
> years after it was released but ASUS does. When I bought a P2B-S
> motherboard the highest Pentium available was only capable of going up
> to 450 MHz. I later upgraded the BIOS and installed an 850 MHz CPU in
> and everything worked as if the board was designed for the processor.
> I might have bought cheaper motherboards in the past but reliability and
> ease of setup are far more important to me than a couple of dollars
> savings, especially if I don't have to replace the board every time I
> want to do an upgrade.
>

Been running, building, fixing, re-using, hundreds of older machines in
*BSD and GNU/Linux, since 1997, and have a few ASUS P2B-DS dual
processor machines running, as well as some PL97, P3W, and others.

There was a problem with the stabilizer in capacitors in 2000 through
2004 but, (thank you EPA!) after that problem in consumer goods, that
affected most makers of products(even some BMWs!), it is back to
stability and full features that work well for me and my clients.

There is the old saw:

Choice is to make it:

1. Cheap,
2. Quickly available,
3. Full-featured

but, you may have only two of the choices.

This MSI K8NGM2-FID board, running Mepis 6.5-64bit Linux, was delivered
with the 939 pin AM2 AMD Sempron 3000+ cpu with heatsink/fan for $80.00,
shipping free, from 3BTech, and all the GNU/Linux Distros and *BSD
versions work well! (Haven't done the onboard SATA RAID, yet).

Another happy customer. Have dozens of ASUS systems running well in a
collage of over 120 systems here and in schools.