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Got a new CPU 5000+ from a 3800 AM2 chip - how to overclock?

 
 
daviddschool
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      07-21-2008, 10:03 PM
I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed
since I purchased it...

Any help would be great.
 
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daviddschool
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      07-21-2008, 10:23 PM
Ok, I found the multiplier, but something weird has happened. I
looked at the CPU-Z before I overclocked, and it was at 14X. I tried
to set it to 15 and the system froze. After that I could not get back
to the 14X multiplier. It only lets me use 10 and under? Is there a
way to default this back?

On Jul 21, 6:03 pm, daviddschool <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
> already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
> couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
> The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed
> since I purchased it...
>
> Any help would be great.


 
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Paul
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      07-21-2008, 11:02 PM
daviddschool wrote:
> Ok, I found the multiplier, but something weird has happened. I
> looked at the CPU-Z before I overclocked, and it was at 14X. I tried
> to set it to 15 and the system froze. After that I could not get back
> to the 14X multiplier. It only lets me use 10 and under? Is there a
> way to default this back?
>
> On Jul 21, 6:03 pm, daviddschool <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
>> already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
>> couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
>> The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed
>> since I purchased it...
>>
>> Any help would be great.

>


I checked a Black Edition 5000+ spec on Newegg, and it looks like
200 x 13 = 2600MHz. You can see a similar entry here at least,
in terms of multiplier information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...icroprocessors

It could be the problem is related to BIOS version. Have a look
through the list here, and see if you can match your processor
to one of the entries.

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/c...us&model=M2N-E

To get back to sanity, you can try the "clear CMOS" procedure.
The most important advice for that, is to remember to unplug
the computer before doing it. That helps prevent damage to a
couple diodes in the VCC_RTC path. (This is on the assumption
that the FID or multiplier info, is stored in CMOS RAM and
not somewhere else.)

Have you tried disabling Cool N' Quiet ? It is something to
try if you're overclocking.

Once you're back in control, use whatever setting allows you
to operate the machine in a stable manner. If the machine
appears stable with that set of conditions, then you can
try a BIOS upgrade. Don't try to upgrade the BIOS, if the
machine is freezing or crashing.

The user manual only mentions 5x to 11x, which seems a bit strange.
At the time of release of the manual, the multipliers used
by the processors, must have been higher than that.

The BIOS download page has a warning on it, so go here and
read all available warnings, before you attempt a flash upgrade.
Due to the lousy BIOS release notes, it is hard to say whether
any features of the board were fixed or not, by a particular
release.

http://support.asus.com/download/dow...us&model=M2N-E

"(Do not use EZ-Flash to flash BIOS if your BIOS version is prior to 0203.)"

For additional info, such as overclocking and the like, try the VIP forums.

http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx...Language=en-us

HTH,
Paul
 
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Paul
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      07-21-2008, 11:08 PM
Paul wrote:
> daviddschool wrote:
>> Ok, I found the multiplier, but something weird has happened. I
>> looked at the CPU-Z before I overclocked, and it was at 14X. I tried
>> to set it to 15 and the system froze. After that I could not get back
>> to the 14X multiplier. It only lets me use 10 and under? Is there a
>> way to default this back?
>>
>> On Jul 21, 6:03 pm, daviddschool <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
>>> already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
>>> couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
>>> The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed
>>> since I purchased it...
>>>
>>> Any help would be great.

>>

>
> I checked a Black Edition 5000+ spec on Newegg, and it looks like
> 200 x 13 = 2600MHz. You can see a similar entry here at least,
> in terms of multiplier information.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...icroprocessors
>
> It could be the problem is related to BIOS version. Have a look
> through the list here, and see if you can match your processor
> to one of the entries.
>
> http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/c...us&model=M2N-E
>
>
> To get back to sanity, you can try the "clear CMOS" procedure.
> The most important advice for that, is to remember to unplug
> the computer before doing it. That helps prevent damage to a
> couple diodes in the VCC_RTC path. (This is on the assumption
> that the FID or multiplier info, is stored in CMOS RAM and
> not somewhere else.)
>
> Have you tried disabling Cool N' Quiet ? It is something to
> try if you're overclocking.
>
> Once you're back in control, use whatever setting allows you
> to operate the machine in a stable manner. If the machine
> appears stable with that set of conditions, then you can
> try a BIOS upgrade. Don't try to upgrade the BIOS, if the
> machine is freezing or crashing.
>
> The user manual only mentions 5x to 11x, which seems a bit strange.
> At the time of release of the manual, the multipliers used
> by the processors, must have been higher than that.
>
> The BIOS download page has a warning on it, so go here and
> read all available warnings, before you attempt a flash upgrade.
> Due to the lousy BIOS release notes, it is hard to say whether
> any features of the board were fixed or not, by a particular
> release.
>
> http://support.asus.com/download/dow...us&model=M2N-E
>
> "(Do not use EZ-Flash to flash BIOS if your BIOS version is prior to
> 0203.)"
>
> For additional info, such as overclocking and the like, try the VIP forums.
>
> http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx...Language=en-us
>
> HTH,
> Paul


Someone is running a 5000+ BE with the multiplier set to 15x here.
Using BIOS 1202.

http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?...Language=en-us

Paul
 
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Wes Newell
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      07-22-2008, 03:38 AM
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:03:58 -0700, daviddschool wrote:

> I looked into the Bios and saw there was a multiplier - but it was
> already set at 5X and doesn't go any higher - I looked around and
> couldn't find anything else that had a multiplier so I can overclock.
> The motherboard is a Asus M2N-E - but the bios hasn't been flashed since
> I purchased it...
>
> Any help would be great.


Multiplier is locked unless you have a black edition. If you want to
overclock it, set HT multiplier to 4x, lower base ram speed 1 setting, and
raise FSB (system bus) from 200 to 233MHz or whatever.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
 
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daviddschool
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      07-22-2008, 03:17 PM
Ok. I do have the BLACK EDITION 65W Brisbane, but finding out which
one is problematic for me (revision G, G2?). I used AIDA32 , but it
doesn't tell me the make of it in detail like you listed here :

http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/c...us&model=M2N-E

So I went into the BIOS and tried to find it there but couldn't
either. So when it comes to flashing the board, I am not ready yet
because I can't figure that part out.

The Black 5000 X2 box says : 2.6 GHz 1 MB L2 Cache
Aida32 say : L2 512KB (on-die, full speed)

Now, I am looking at the BIOS and have this
CHIPSET :
CPU <-> MCP55 HT Speed 5X
CPU<-> MCP55 HT width 16^ 16/

Where would I find the HT multiplier or is that what I have found?
The speed or the width?

My motherboard looks like revision 0502. The person at the ASUS forum
is using 1202 or something, the newest revision is up to 1401. So
should I use the older one? There is also a utility that will flash
the bios, I am wondering if I should go about it that way or just use
the 1401?

Ok, that is enough questions for now. I hope I have added all of the
relevant info.







>
> Multiplier is locked unless you have a black edition. If you want to
> overclock it, set HT multiplier to 4x, lower base ram speed 1 setting, and
> raise FSB (system bus) from 200 to 233MHz or whatever.
>
> --
> Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder?http://mythtv.org
> My Tivo Experiencehttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
> Tivo HD/S3 comparedhttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
> AMD cpu helphttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php


 
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Paul
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-22-2008, 06:29 PM
daviddschool wrote:
> Ok. I do have the BLACK EDITION 65W Brisbane, but finding out which
> one is problematic for me (revision G, G2?). I used AIDA32 , but it
> doesn't tell me the make of it in detail like you listed here :
>
> http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/c...us&model=M2N-E
>
> So I went into the BIOS and tried to find it there but couldn't
> either. So when it comes to flashing the board, I am not ready yet
> because I can't figure that part out.
>
> The Black 5000 X2 box says : 2.6 GHz 1 MB L2 Cache
> Aida32 say : L2 512KB (on-die, full speed)
>
> Now, I am looking at the BIOS and have this
> CHIPSET :
> CPU <-> MCP55 HT Speed 5X
> CPU<-> MCP55 HT width 16^ 16/
>
> Where would I find the HT multiplier or is that what I have found?
> The speed or the width?
>
> My motherboard looks like revision 0502. The person at the ASUS forum
> is using 1202 or something, the newest revision is up to 1401. So
> should I use the older one? There is also a utility that will flash
> the bios, I am wondering if I should go about it that way or just use
> the 1401?
>
> Ok, that is enough questions for now. I hope I have added all of the
> relevant info.



The answer to the BIOS is simple. Go to the vip.asus.com forums. Look
for comments about the latest BIOS versions. If the users comment that
the latest one is not a good one, and they liked the release just before
that one, then you know which one to select.

The information on the CPUSupport web page is all fine and good, but
you don't have to settle for some middle release BIOS, when there are
later ones.

As for flashing method -

1) Check the manual. All the methods will be listed, such as DOS boot
floppy plus flashing program, data floppy or USB stick plus "Ezflash"
(a flashing program built into the BIOS), or the third method might
be Asus Update, a Windows based program. For safety, it is best if
you've already got the file stored on disk, before using a Windows
based approach. And to make it easier to read the manual, download
the PDF version from the Asus download page on support.asus.com .
Reading the included paper copy is no fun.

2) Check the warnings on the Asus download page for your motherboard.
For example, if the BIOS tab says "Do not use Ezflash", then you'd be
down to two methods. In some cases, Asus has a special download package,
which is used on a DOS floppy, when the other methods aren't going
to work. If you ignore the advice on the download page, some of these
problems are guaranteed to brick the board (you end up with no valid BIOS).

3) Of the three methods mentioned above, I rate the Windows method as
theoretically worst, due to the fact that so much stuff is running
in the background. Asus Update consults the web page, for some info
about the BIOS releases, but the data file it uses, doesn't always
match the actual files available (for my motherboard, it doesn't offer
me the latest BIOS releases, through the Asus Update interface).

When DOS is running, there is much less going on. And even then, a
DOS level flash can screw up for a number of reasons. So flashing is
not without some level of risk.

And a floppy based method is only going to work, if the BIOS fits on
a floppy. There are now a couple motherboard BIOS that are 2MB in size,
and for those, you're looking at some other kind of storage solution,
such as USB flash or some other kind of removable media.

*******

HT Speed 5X is the Hypertransport multiplier. CPU_input_clock times
that multiplier, gives the HT bus clock. Say that the bus clock spec for
a given processor is 1000MHz. Then 200x5 (the nominal value( is OK.
If you increased the CPU input clock to 223, then you'd select
HT_Multiplier = 4, as then 4 * 223 = 892MHz, which is less than 1000MHz
and is OK. You don't want the HT to run significantly faster than the
rating. (It affects bandwidth to the PCI Express video slots, but it
isn't a big deal if it runs at 892 instead of 1000.)

If you're changing the CPU multiplier (on a black edition say), and
keeping the CPU_input_clock fixed at 200MHz, then the HT multiplier
doesn't need to be adjusted. (Because 5 would still be a good value.)

I don't know if I've got the right equation for RAM. It used to be
something like CPU_input_clock * CPU_multiplier / memory_divider gave
the memory speed. And the memory_divider was selected, so that the
memory would not be run over its rated speed. (In some cases, that meant
a DDR2-800 stick, would run at DDR2-750, as the memory_divider didn't
have fine enough resolution to give exactly 800, and AMD didn't want
the DDR2-800 memory running at something like DDR2-842 or whatever.)

You can use a program like CPUZ, to observe what is happening. For
example, here is the CPUZ tab for the CPU core. It shows 200 x 11 = 2200
for a core.

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/imageview.php?image=11105

The memory (DDR2-800 module) is running at "CPU/6" or 2200/6 or 366.7MHz.
Times 2, that is DDR2-733, or a little slower than the rating of the module.

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/imageview.php?image=11105

The Hypertransport bus speed is shown in the CPUZ report summary
(you can generate a report while in CPUZ). (At least the screenshots
I could find, didn't show it, but the report summary seems to.)
So using CPUZ, when you're in Windows, you can see what has changed
when you adjusted the BIOS. By taking small steps, you can see how
the settings affect more than one thing or not.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Bumping up the CPU_input_clock, increases CPU_core, HT_bus_clock,
and memory_clock, as that clock feeds everything either
directly or indirectly. So you could do one experiment, where
you increase the CPU clock by 5 MHz (200 to 205 MHz) and
look at what has changed. Then go back to 200MHz, and change the
CPU multiplier by 1, and see what clocks changed in that case.
That will help you understand how they work. By keeping the
changes small, I'm hoping you wouldn't need to adjust anything
else.

Another thing, is the CNQ (Cool N' Quiet) setting. Maybe Wes can
comment on what to do with that one. I'm not sure it always works
right when you're overclocking.

Paul

>> Multiplier is locked unless you have a black edition. If you want to
>> overclock it, set HT multiplier to 4x, lower base ram speed 1 setting, and
>> raise FSB (system bus) from 200 to 233MHz or whatever.
>>
>> --
>> Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder?http://mythtv.org
>> My Tivo Experiencehttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
>> Tivo HD/S3 comparedhttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
>> AMD cpu helphttp://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

>

 
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daviddschool
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-24-2008, 08:15 PM
First off, thanks for all the time and effort in this.

I am going to Flash the Bios using a floppy - I will have a buy one
since I don't have one sitting around. They are getting harder and
harder to find. I checked out the manual on how to do that as well as
backing up the BIOS first. Thank you for that.


> And a floppy based method is only going to work, if the BIOS fits on
> a floppy. There are now a couple motherboard BIOS that are 2MB in size,
> and for those, you're looking at some other kind of storage solution,
> such as USB flash or some other kind of removable media.
>


Now, the hard part. I am trying to understand the multiplier.

> *******
> HT Speed 5X is the Hypertransport multiplier. CPU_input_clock times
> that multiplier, gives the HT bus clock. Say that the bus clock spec for
> a given processor is 1000MHz. Then 200x5 (the nominal value( is OK.
> If you increased the CPU input clock to 223, then you'd select
> HT_Multiplier = 4, as then 4 * 223 = 892MHz, which is less than 1000MHz
> and is OK. You don't want the HT to run significantly faster than the
> rating. (It affects bandwidth to the PCI Express video slots, but it
> isn't a big deal if it runs at 892 instead of 1000.)


How did you discover how many Mhz the system is running at? I checked
CPU-Z and it doesn't seem to say. Right now my log says this :


Processors Map
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of processors 1
Number of threads 2

Processor 0
-- Core 0
-- Thread 0
-- Core 1
-- Thread 0


Processors Information
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Processor 1 (ID = 0)
Number of cores 2
Number of threads 2 (max 2)
Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+
Codename Brisbane
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+
Package Socket AM2 (940)
CPUID F.B.2
Extended CPUID F.6B
Brand ID 4
Core Stepping
Technology 65 nm
Core Speed 2913.5 MHz (14.5 x 200.9 MHz)
HT Link speed 1004.6 MHz
Stock frequency 5000 MHz
Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte
line size
L2 cache 2 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
max FID 25.0x
VID range 1.125V - 1.400V
K8 Thermal sensor yes
K8 Revision ID 6.0
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 0
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 1
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 2
Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 3

The HT link speed is 1004, but is that because I increased the CPU
multiplier? If so it must be 200 X 5 to get that number.

> If you're changing the CPU multiplier (on a black edition say), and
> keeping the CPU_input_clock fixed at 200MHz, then the HT multiplier
> doesn't need to be adjusted. (Because 5 would still be a good value.)


The rest I will have to try and figure out because it is somewhat
intimidating for me considering I don't want to burn out the CPU!


 
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Paul
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      07-25-2008, 12:27 AM
daviddschool wrote:
> First off, thanks for all the time and effort in this.
>
> I am going to Flash the Bios using a floppy - I will have a buy one
> since I don't have one sitting around. They are getting harder and
> harder to find. I checked out the manual on how to do that as well as
> backing up the BIOS first. Thank you for that.
>
>
>> And a floppy based method is only going to work, if the BIOS fits on
>> a floppy. There are now a couple motherboard BIOS that are 2MB in size,
>> and for those, you're looking at some other kind of storage solution,
>> such as USB flash or some other kind of removable media.
>>

>
> Now, the hard part. I am trying to understand the multiplier.
>
>> *******
>> HT Speed 5X is the Hypertransport multiplier. CPU_input_clock times
>> that multiplier, gives the HT bus clock. Say that the bus clock spec for
>> a given processor is 1000MHz. Then 200x5 (the nominal value( is OK.
>> If you increased the CPU input clock to 223, then you'd select
>> HT_Multiplier = 4, as then 4 * 223 = 892MHz, which is less than 1000MHz
>> and is OK. You don't want the HT to run significantly faster than the
>> rating. (It affects bandwidth to the PCI Express video slots, but it
>> isn't a big deal if it runs at 892 instead of 1000.)

>
> How did you discover how many Mhz the system is running at? I checked
> CPU-Z and it doesn't seem to say. Right now my log says this :
>
>
> Processors Map
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Number of processors 1
> Number of threads 2
>
> Processor 0
> -- Core 0
> -- Thread 0
> -- Core 1
> -- Thread 0
>
>
> Processors Information
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Processor 1 (ID = 0)
> Number of cores 2
> Number of threads 2 (max 2)
> Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+
> Codename Brisbane
> Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+
> Package Socket AM2 (940)
> CPUID F.B.2
> Extended CPUID F.6B
> Brand ID 4
> Core Stepping
> Technology 65 nm
> Core Speed 2913.5 MHz (14.5 x 200.9 MHz)
> HT Link speed 1004.6 MHz
> Stock frequency 5000 MHz
> Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
> L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
> L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte
> line size
> L2 cache 2 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
> FID/VID Control yes
> max FID 25.0x
> VID range 1.125V - 1.400V
> K8 Thermal sensor yes
> K8 Revision ID 6.0
> Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 0
> Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 1
> Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 2
> Attached device PCI device at bus 0, device 24, function 3
>
> The HT link speed is 1004, but is that because I increased the CPU
> multiplier? If so it must be 200 X 5 to get that number.
>
>> If you're changing the CPU multiplier (on a black edition say), and
>> keeping the CPU_input_clock fixed at 200MHz, then the HT multiplier
>> doesn't need to be adjusted. (Because 5 would still be a good value.)

>
> The rest I will have to try and figure out because it is somewhat
> intimidating for me considering I don't want to burn out the CPU!
>


Your CPU input clock is 200.9MHz . That is pretty close to the nominal
value, and sometimes the odd numbers are caused by the granularity of
the adjustments inside the clock generator chip.

Your core is 200.9 x 14.5 = 2913.5MHz. That is the core frequency of
the processor.

If Cool N' Quiet was working, when the processor is idle, the multiplier
value would drop to a lower value. The multiplier goes up to the
maximum number, when the processor is busy. If Cool N' Quiet won't
handle the 14.5 multiplier properly, there are also separate programs
like RMClock which support custom settings for min and max core multiplier.

The "stock frequency" field in the above is wrong. That is the P.R. rating
from AMD (5000+) and is the speed an Intel P4 would have to run at, to give
equivalent performance.

The Hypertransport multiplier would appear to be 5x, and 200.9 * 5 = 1004.6.

HTH,
Paul

 
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