Are INTEGRATED graphic cards really that bad....???

Hi..

This is the PC I have now, and have had for the last 10 years or so.

DELL DIMENSION XPS-T-450
HD = 13 gig
Graphics Card = 16MB
Memory = 128 MB RAM

Now... at one time, this was considered top of the line. I know I
know, a long time ago...... LOL

I am contemplating getting a new system. My $$$ resources are very
low ($400 max) and I of course want to get as much as I can. I don't
need a monitor.

Now... I will more than likely try DELL. But my question is...
wouldn't just about "anything" out there.... whether it be an e-
machine or a PC with a "integrated" graphics card etc... Wouldn't
anything be much better than what I have now?

Basically... I just surf the web, maybe play a few lower-end games
etc... Once in awhile... I will watch a YOU-TUBE video but that's
pretty much about it.

I am told things like "stay away from Celerons" to "never get a PC
with an "integrated" graphics card etc...

But.... wouldn't I notice a major improvement over the PC I have
described above with just about anything as long as it is new and
comes with a warranty?

Thanks... in advance

~david~

<> wrote in message
news:39dc5786-bc9c-494b-a343-...
> Hi..
>
> This is the PC I have now, and have had for the last 10 years or so.
>
> DELL DIMENSION XPS-T-450
> HD = 13 gig
> Graphics Card = 16MB
> Memory = 128 MB RAM
>
> Now... at one time, this was considered top of the line. I know I
> know, a long time ago...... LOL
>
> I am contemplating getting a new system. My $$$ resources are very
> low ($400 max) and I of course want to get as much as I can. I don't
> need a monitor.
>
> Now... I will more than likely try DELL. But my question is...
> wouldn't just about "anything" out there.... whether it be an e-
> machine or a PC with a "integrated" graphics card etc... Wouldn't
> anything be much better than what I have now?
>
> Basically... I just surf the web, maybe play a few lower-end games
> etc... Once in awhile... I will watch a YOU-TUBE video but that's
> pretty much about it.
>
> I am told things like "stay away from Celerons" to "never get a PC
> with an "integrated" graphics card etc...
>
> But.... wouldn't I notice a major improvement over the PC I have
> described above with just about anything as long as it is new and
> comes with a warranty?
>
> Thanks... in advance
>
> ~david~

IMO
and opinions vary wildly...

Check out the Dell Outlet, I have always had a good experience, at least so
far.

With your budget of $400, I might recommend a Core 2 Duo processor, probably
in the Inspiron 530 line.
It will be Vista, look for 2 gb ram minimum.

Integrated video is fine if you don't need to play the cutting edge games.
Internet, e-mail, You-Tube, will be no problem with integrated video.

To put this gently, ANYTHING you buy will be a HUGE step-up from what you
describe you are presently using, and you will notice a drastic improvement.

Again, just my 2 cents worth.

Bernie

wrote:
> Hi..
>
> This is the PC I have now, and have had for the last 10 years or so.
>
> DELL DIMENSION XPS-T-450
> HD = 13 gig
> Graphics Card = 16MB
> Memory = 128 MB RAM
>
> Now... at one time, this was considered top of the line. I know I
> know, a long time ago...... LOL
>
> I am contemplating getting a new system. My $$$ resources are very
> low ($400 max) and I of course want to get as much as I can. I don't
> need a monitor.
>
> Now... I will more than likely try DELL. But my question is...
> wouldn't just about "anything" out there.... whether it be an e-
> machine or a PC with a "integrated" graphics card etc... Wouldn't
> anything be much better than what I have now?
>
> Basically... I just surf the web, maybe play a few lower-end games
> etc... Once in awhile... I will watch a YOU-TUBE video but that's
> pretty much about it.
>
> I am told things like "stay away from Celerons" to "never get a PC
> with an "integrated" graphics card etc...
>
> But.... wouldn't I notice a major improvement over the PC I have
> described above with just about anything as long as it is new and
> comes with a warranty?
>
> Thanks... in advance
>
> ~david~

The only knock I have on integrated video cards is that they steal
system memory, sometimes up to 256MB. Otherwise, their performance is
more than acceptable for web surfing, low-end games, etc. You can hedge
your bets buying a computer with integrated graphics and a PCI-Express
16x slot to add a graphics card at a later date.

Likewise, Celerons have taken a knock from the high performance
computing crowd, but they are an inexpensive chip that performs
reasonably at 2.5GHz and above.

If you have a source of good quality refurb computers with warranty in
your NJ area, you can easily beat the $400 price point. I am not sure
what Dell factory outlet has available.

Most of the stuff sold in the big box stores (Walmart, Circuit City,
Best Buy) is way overpriced for the quality of product you get.

.... Ben Myers

> Basically... I just surf the web, maybe play a few lower-end games
> etc... Once in awhile... I will watch a YOU-TUBE video but that's
> pretty much about it.

Integrated cards are relatively fast these days, but you'll find a
stand-alone card will pretty much double throughput.

I did some trawling for a colleague and for stuff like Sims 2, the
Intel GMA X3100 is supposed to be ok, but not for anything more recent
than that (at acceptable levels)

Check out techarp.com (Rojakpot's graphics card list) for some figures
on what you'll get out of a modern card - the Mtexels figure is
probably as good as any to look for.

Hi!

> Now... at one time, this was considered top of the line.
> I know I know, a long time ago...... LOL

Heh. Not as long as you'd think considering how fast the technology
moves. The machine I'm using right now has a P4 at least, but its
graphics card has only 32MB VRAM. I'm not complaining -- it does what
I want and need. :-)

> Wouldn't anything be much better than what I have now?

Not necessarily. There's a *lot* of junk out there and you need to
shop smart. You can buy a usable--if not decent--computer for $400 w/o
a monitor. In that price range, I don't know that you can get anything
decent that runs Vista well. (You can certainly get something that
runs Windows Vista. It's the "well" part that will be the problem.)

I'd definitely start with Dell because you can build what you want and
leave off what you don't. You don't get that kind of control in a "big
box" store where computers are sold, although it is worth checking
those out as well. You never know where you might find a deal.

And whatever you plan to buy, run the specs across this or another (if
more appropriate) group. You will get plenty of feedback.

Have you given any thought to building a system yourself? If you
have...

> Basically... I just surf the web, maybe play a few lower-end
> games etc... Once in awhile... I will watch a YOU-TUBE
> video but that's pretty much about it.

....then these might be interesting starting points:

http://greyghost.mooo.com/intelatom/
http://greyghost.mooo.com/d201gly2/

> I am told things like "stay away from Celerons" to "never get
> a PC with an "integrated" graphics card etc...

There's nothing wrong with the Celeron. It is a lot more capable than
people give it credit for. For regular desktop computer use, and the
odd game, a Celeron works perfectly well.

The same is true of integrated graphics. Some are better than others.
(I have a very high opinion of the Intel integrated graphics
solutions...) All of today's integrated graphics solutions are pretty
powerful.

You do have to keep in mind that almost all integrated graphics
systems take up some of the system RAM for themselves. Your operating
system and programs will therefore have less to use...so make sure the
computer has enough RAM to start with. At least 1GB is a good starting
point, and 2 is better if you go Vista.

Finally, you could also buy a newer secondhand computer. If the
warranty isn't important to you, and whatever you find has been taken
care of, you can get a good deal. You're not taking that much of a
risk--computer hardware that survives its first 24 hours usually goes
on to last a very long time. I like buying computers on eBay and
refurbishing them for resale...most of them are higher end Pentium III
or Celeron/P4 systems. I don't do a lot of this, but everyone who ever
bought one from me was happy with what they got...

William