Low budget E4300 build

So I'm helping a guy at work build a new computer. Ok, I'm doing it, and he's
watching!

New Parts:

$114.50 E4300 from ZipZoomFly
$ 90.00 XP Home from ZZF
$ 62.40 2GB SuperTalent PC2-6400 from eWiz
$ 60.00 Antec NSK-6500 case from Fry's
$ 6.00 92mm Zalman fan with quiet mode adapter purchased locally

Used parts:

$ 74.00 Biostar 965pt from eBay
$ 15.00 ATech Internal flash card reader
$ 8.00 USR internal 56k modem


Reused Parts:

Samsung DVD Burner
Maxtor 200GB HDD
Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers, Monitor (for now)

No video card yet, that's next paycheck. I used my 7600GS to set it up.
There's about $430 cash out of his pocket, so far, less whatever he can get for
an 1GHz Celeron eMachines computer with XP factory installed.

I tested the motherboard with my E6400. When it ran Orthos at 420 x 7 overnight
I was done testing. I tested the memory in my computer. When it ran memtest at
DDR2-820 speed at 4-4-4-12 timings overnight, I was done testing.

I put the thing together without testing the CPU IHS and retail HSF for flatness.
I didn't pull the northbridge and reapply thermal paste. It wouldn't run much above
stock speed. The BIOS needed to be updated to properly recognize the E4300
and get the 400MHz memory setting that was the synchronous setting. Memtest
didn't like anything over about 2.85 GHz. Orthos didn't like much over 2.7 GHz
without errors or overheating. Still, that's a 50% overclock, nothing to sneeze at.
Default vCore is 1.325 volts. Raising the voltage didn't help stability, so I lowered
it to 1.275 volts and left it.

He's going to get a 19" 1280x1024 LCD monitor for under $200. I'd like to sell
him my LG 22", which would be good for gaming, but is perhaps not so good for
photo editing, and of course requires more GPU power to drive. He likes to play
games, and I'm trying to get him to spring for an 8800GTS, but he really wants to
get an 8600GTS. For the money, I might try to steer him into an X1950XT instead.

Fishface wrote:
> So I'm helping a guy at work build a new computer. Ok, I'm doing it,
> and he's watching!
>
> New Parts:
>
> $114.50 E4300 from ZipZoomFly
> $ 90.00 XP Home from ZZF
> $ 62.40 2GB SuperTalent PC2-6400 from eWiz
> $ 60.00 Antec NSK-6500 case from Fry's
> $ 6.00 92mm Zalman fan with quiet mode adapter purchased
> locally
>
> Used parts:
>
> $ 74.00 Biostar 965pt from eBay
> $ 15.00 ATech Internal flash card reader
> $ 8.00 USR internal 56k modem
>
>
> Reused Parts:
>
> Samsung DVD Burner
> Maxtor 200GB HDD
> Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers, Monitor (for now)
>
> No video card yet, that's next paycheck. I used my 7600GS to set it
> up.
> There's about $430 cash out of his pocket, so far, less whatever he
> can get for
> an 1GHz Celeron eMachines computer with XP factory installed.
>
> I tested the motherboard with my E6400. When it ran Orthos at 420 x
> 7 overnight
> I was done testing. I tested the memory in my computer. When it ran
> memtest at DDR2-820 speed at 4-4-4-12 timings overnight, I was done
> testing.
>
> I put the thing together without testing the CPU IHS and retail HSF
> for flatness.
> I didn't pull the northbridge and reapply thermal paste. It wouldn't
> run much above stock speed. The BIOS needed to be updated to
> properly recognize the E4300
> and get the 400MHz memory setting that was the synchronous setting.
> Memtest
> didn't like anything over about 2.85 GHz. Orthos didn't like much
> over 2.7 GHz without errors or overheating. Still, that's a 50%
> overclock, nothing to sneeze at. Default vCore is 1.325 volts.
> Raising the voltage didn't help stability, so I lowered it to 1.275
> volts and left it.
>
> He's going to get a 19" 1280x1024 LCD monitor for under $200. I'd
> like to sell
> him my LG 22", which would be good for gaming, but is perhaps not so
> good for
> photo editing, and of course requires more GPU power to drive. He
> likes to play games, and I'm trying to get him to spring for an
> 8800GTS, but he really wants to
> get an 8600GTS. For the money, I might try to steer him into an
> X1950XT instead.

I have absolutely had it with used computer parts off eBay. I don't care if
I saved $X, but I have been burned too many times with broken stuff. Either
people don't know their underperforming stuff was broken in the first place
so they offloaded it, or they knew and were just trying to get rid of it
shadily, asking for negative feedback in return

Newegg, ZZF, buy.com, fatwallet for me only now.

--
Phil

Phil wrote:
> I have absolutely had it with used computer parts off eBay. I don't care
> if I saved $X, but I have been burned too many times with broken stuff.
> Either people don't know their underperforming stuff was broken in the
> first place so they offloaded it, or they knew and were just trying to get
> rid of it shadily, asking for negative feedback in return

Yeah, it is always a bit risky. The seller was a private party who posted on
the xtremesystems.org forums. He was selling all his parts and I decided
to trust him. I guess we were lucky that time. In the past, I have gotten two
bad video cards that were almost free, a BX motherboard with a funky I/O
chip (running fine for several years with a HSF and Parallel port card that
was in my junk box), and some PC-133 memory that only ran at 120 MHz
(but I only bought it for use at 100 MHz).

I think a used motherboard is probably especially risky, what with all the
plugging and unplugging, surface mounted parts, heating and cooling cycles,
and static sensitivity.

It's funny, Newegg has an "open box" 965pt for sale now for $52 plus shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813138037R

I wonder if it was the one returned by someone named Vector- who wrote:

Worked well... for awhile

Pros: Solid audio, good chips, was stable for awhile....

Cons: After roughly 6 months, my computer decided to immediately shut off,
and now the board refuses to POST. Wasn't overclocked, everything set
to specifications (which were rather difficult to find, I might add)...

Other Thoughts: Hopefully will be able to RMA it... doubt I'll buy another Biostar
in the foreseeable future however.

"Fishface" <?> wrote in message
news:zI8ki.574$mS3.138@trnddc03...
> Phil wrote:
>> I have absolutely had it with used computer parts off eBay. I don't care
>> if I saved $X, but I have been burned too many times with broken stuff.
>> Either people don't know their underperforming stuff was broken in the
>> first place so they offloaded it, or they knew and were just trying to
>> get
>> rid of it shadily, asking for negative feedback in return
>
> Yeah, it is always a bit risky. The seller was a private party who posted
> on
> the xtremesystems.org forums. He was selling all his parts and I decided
> to trust him. I guess we were lucky that time. In the past, I have
> gotten two
> bad video cards that were almost free, a BX motherboard with a funky I/O
> chip (running fine for several years with a HSF and Parallel port card
> that
> was in my junk box), and some PC-133 memory that only ran at 120 MHz
> (but I only bought it for use at 100 MHz).

It's free if you spend 0 minutes messing around with it. I've determined
that my time is worth far more than I've spent trying to troubleshoot used
equipment, especially OC'able equipment.

> I think a used motherboard is probably especially risky, what with all the
> plugging and unplugging, surface mounted parts, heating and cooling
> cycles,
> and static sensitivity.

Excellent point, especially about the static sensitivity. After taking an
ESD class at my new employer, I realize now how many things can be
mishandled, and something can be packed with latent failures waiting to
happen. I think it was something like 200V static discharge can cause
problems. We can feel 6000V and up I think. New stuff for me from now on.

> It's funny, Newegg has an "open box" 965pt for sale now for $52 plus
> shipping.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813138037R
>
> I wonder if it was the one returned by someone named Vector- who wrote:
>
> Worked well... for awhile
>
> Pros: Solid audio, good chips, was stable for awhile....
>
> Cons: After roughly 6 months, my computer decided to immediately shut off,
> and now the board refuses to POST. Wasn't overclocked,
> everything set
> to specifications (which were rather difficult to find, I might
> add)...
>
> Other Thoughts: Hopefully will be able to RMA it... doubt I'll buy another
> Biostar
> in the foreseeable future however.

Yeah those reports turned me away, too. It's a crapshoot, and even a 5%
likelihood of getting a dud will turn me away if those statistics were
available.

--
Phil

'Fishface' wrote, in part:
| Excellent point, especially about the static sensitivity. After taking an
| ESD class at my new employer, I realize now how many things can be
| mishandled, and something can be packed with latent failures waiting to
| happen. I think it was something like 200V static discharge can cause
| problems. We can feel 6000V and up I think. New stuff for me from now
on.
_____

I've found the key to handling static charge is humidity. For quite some
time I lived in South Florida. The only precaution needed was to turn off
the air conditioning! Get the humidity up around 60% or so you just don't
generate enough static charge to matter B^) Winter in Northern climes is an
entirely different matter, with indoor humidity as low as 10% - and
consequently BIG static charge problems. When the humidity gets that low
all the other precautions in the world aren't satisfactory.

Phil Weldon

"Phil" <> wrote in message
news:46915831$0$4665$...
|
|
| "Fishface" <?> wrote in message
| news:zI8ki.574$mS3.138@trnddc03...
| > Phil wrote:
| >> I have absolutely had it with used computer parts off eBay. I don't
care
| >> if I saved $X, but I have been burned too many times with broken stuff.
| >> Either people don't know their underperforming stuff was broken in the
| >> first place so they offloaded it, or they knew and were just trying to
| >> get
| >> rid of it shadily, asking for negative feedback in return
| >
| > Yeah, it is always a bit risky. The seller was a private party who
posted
| > on
| > the xtremesystems.org forums. He was selling all his parts and I
decided
| > to trust him. I guess we were lucky that time. In the past, I have
| > gotten two
| > bad video cards that were almost free, a BX motherboard with a funky I/O
| > chip (running fine for several years with a HSF and Parallel port card
| > that
| > was in my junk box), and some PC-133 memory that only ran at 120 MHz
| > (but I only bought it for use at 100 MHz).
|
| It's free if you spend 0 minutes messing around with it. I've determined
| that my time is worth far more than I've spent trying to troubleshoot used
| equipment, especially OC'able equipment.
|
| > I think a used motherboard is probably especially risky, what with all
the
| > plugging and unplugging, surface mounted parts, heating and cooling
| > cycles,
| > and static sensitivity.
|
| Excellent point, especially about the static sensitivity. After taking an
| ESD class at my new employer, I realize now how many things can be
| mishandled, and something can be packed with latent failures waiting to
| happen. I think it was something like 200V static discharge can cause
| problems. We can feel 6000V and up I think. New stuff for me from now
on.
|
| > It's funny, Newegg has an "open box" 965pt for sale now for $52 plus
| > shipping.
| > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813138037R
| >
| > I wonder if it was the one returned by someone named Vector- who wrote:
| >
| > Worked well... for awhile
| >
| > Pros: Solid audio, good chips, was stable for awhile....
| >
| > Cons: After roughly 6 months, my computer decided to immediately shut
off,
| > and now the board refuses to POST. Wasn't overclocked,
| > everything set
| > to specifications (which were rather difficult to find, I
might
| > add)...
| >
| > Other Thoughts: Hopefully will be able to RMA it... doubt I'll buy
another
| > Biostar
| > in the foreseeable future however.
|
| Yeah those reports turned me away, too. It's a crapshoot, and even a 5%
| likelihood of getting a dud will turn me away if those statistics were
| available.
|
| --
| Phil
|
|

Phil Weldon wrote:
> I've found the key to handling static charge is humidity. For quite some
> time I lived in South Florida. The only precaution needed was to turn off
> the air conditioning! Get the humidity up around 60% or so you just don't
> generate enough static charge to matter B^) Winter in Northern climes
> is an entirely different matter, with indoor humidity as low as 10% - and
> consequently BIG static charge problems. When the humidity gets that
> low all the other precautions in the world aren't satisfactory.

I remember how muggy it was every time I visited Florida, and how the sky
opened-up most afternoons. It rained so hard that all the cars all pulled over!

Here in the Porland area of Oregon, you'd be hard pressed to create a
spark in the winter (rainy season). The Oregon Museum of Science has
trouble getting the huge Van De Graaf ultrastatic generator to produce even
a small spark. Summer is a different matter, as there is very low humidity.
In the summer, I get shocked every time I get out of the car and I can see a
spark when I touch my key to the mailbox at night!

We assembled in a damp, cool basement with the power supply plugged-in
but switched-off, grounding ourselves frequently. This has always worked
well for me. Other times, I will put a kettle on the boil, turn on the humidifier,
or even make soup! I do have an anti-static wrist strap from Radio Shack,
but seldom actually use it, as it is very short. Before plugging-in cables, I
always touch the metal connector and the grounded case, something I
started doing after hearing about fried ICH5 southbridges, which I have on
an Asus P4P800 SE.

I do always take extreme precautions when testing new parts, to be certain
that I do no electrostatic harm.

Fishface wrote:

> It rained so hard that all the cars all pulled over!

Yeah, all of 'em. I've got to get a new proof-reader...

>> Phil wrote:

> Excellent point, especially about the static sensitivity. After taking an
> ESD class at my new employer, I realize now how many things can be
> mishandled, and something can be packed with latent failures waiting to
> happen. I think it was something like 200V static discharge can cause
> problems. We can feel 6000V and up I think. New stuff for me from now
> on.
>

And if it "hurts" when you get zapped it's over 20k volts.

JC

John Caceres wrote:
>>> Phil wrote:
>
>> Excellent point, especially about the static sensitivity. After
>> taking an ESD class at my new employer, I realize now how many
>> things can be mishandled, and something can be packed with latent
>> failures waiting to happen. I think it was something like 200V
>> static discharge can cause problems. We can feel 6000V and up I
>> think. New stuff for me from now on.
>>
>
> And if it "hurts" when you get zapped it's over 20k volts.
>
> JC

Just today at work, I was pulling off the top layer of a 4'x4' sticky mat at
work where dirt from outside gets stickied off the bottom of shoes at the
entrance to a clean room. I pulled off the layer very quickly, turned to a
trash can sitting next to a metal locker, and BAM my arm jerked suddenly as
a huge spark hit my arm that grazed the locker. It was way worse than a
pull-off-a-sweater or shuffle-across-the-floor spark. Probably the worst
I've ever experienced.

I could only imagine what would have happened if I was holding a processor
or some other electrical component. At least my area is a mechanical, not
electrical area.

--
Phil

"Phil" <> wrote in message
news:4692e949$0$24730$...
> John Caceres wrote:
>>>> Phil wrote:
>>
>>> Excellent point, especially about the static sensitivity. After
>>> taking an ESD class at my new employer, I realize now how many
>>> things can be mishandled, and something can be packed with latent
>>> failures waiting to happen. I think it was something like 200V
>>> static discharge can cause problems. We can feel 6000V and up I
>>> think. New stuff for me from now on.
>>>
>>
>> And if it "hurts" when you get zapped it's over 20k volts.
>>
>> JC
>
> Just today at work, I was pulling off the top layer of a 4'x4' sticky
> mat at work where dirt from outside gets stickied off the bottom of
> shoes at the entrance to a clean room. I pulled off the layer very
> quickly, turned to a trash can sitting next to a metal locker, and BAM
> my arm jerked suddenly as a huge spark hit my arm that grazed the
> locker. It was way worse than a pull-off-a-sweater or
> shuffle-across-the-floor spark. Probably the worst I've ever
> experienced.
>
> I could only imagine what would have happened if I was holding a
> processor or some other electrical component. At least my area is a
> mechanical, not electrical area.
>
> --
> Phil
Before I retired we used the non-static 'booties' in electrical
areas, but I have seen those mats more and more even in electronic clean
rooms. I had no idea that they could hold that kind of a charge.


Ed