Mainboard MS-6309

I'm trying setup running this ATX VA5 Mainboard running
but there are some problems. If anyone could share with
me own experience in using this mo/bo - I'd be very grateful.

I'm trying to install Win XP Home but installation is
interrupted by constant self rebooting in the middle
of installation.

My setup is:
MS-6309 ATX VA5 mainboard
CPU Pentium III Intel 933 MHz
Memory 2x256MB PC100
40 BG Hitachi HD
Elsa 64 HB video display card

Thanks for any advice -

Jdr

McGregor wrote:
> I'm trying setup running this ATX VA5 Mainboard running
> but there are some problems. If anyone could share with
> me own experience in using this mo/bo - I'd be very grateful.
>
> I'm trying to install Win XP Home but installation is
> interrupted by constant self rebooting in the middle
> of installation.
>
> My setup is:
> MS-6309 ATX VA5 mainboard
> CPU Pentium III Intel 933 MHz
> Memory 2x256MB PC100
> 40 BG Hitachi HD
> Elsa 64 HB video display card
>
> Thanks for any advice -
>
> Jdr

A review of sorts here, with pictures. S370, VIA 694X/686A.

http://www.hardware-one.com/print_re...sp?reviews=144

These are the capacitors near the CPU socket. Usually split
in two groups, one group for input filtering, the other for
output filtering, on the switching Vcore regulator. Vcore
powers the processor, and is converted from +5V or +12V,
depending on generation of motherboard.

http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews/.../capacitor.jpg

The first thing I'd check, based on your symptom description,
is bad capacitors. This is an example of some bulging and leaking
capacitors. When they bulge and leak, it makes it hard for
the Vcore regulator to maintain output power level, especially
during power peaks.

http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/image004.png

The tops can bulge. The lines cut in the top, are for pressure
relief and safety. The lines open, before the pressure becomes
too great. The bottom of the cap has a rubber seal, and the
seal can also blow out. A brown liquid can drool onto the
motherboard, and the liquid will eventually dry leaving a
brown stain. That would be evidence of capacitor failure.

So start with a visual inspection. If the caps are failing,
and have not caused collateral damage, the caps can be replaced.
My main problem with that strategy, is finding good replacements.
And a good replacement doesn't mean overengineering either,
as replacing the caps with OSCONs may not be appropriate either.
Some of those Vcore designs rely on the characteristics of the
components they chose, meaning the design might not end up
centered very well, if a super-expensive (non-electrolytic)
replacement cap was used. Sometimes the necessary information,
on capacitor selection, is present in the Vcore regulator chip
datasheet.

Examples of parts kits here. The last time I tried looking on some
of the popular electronics sites, like Mouser and Digikey, I didn't
really see anything I liked.

http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=21

If bad capacitors are left operating long enough, other
components in the circuit can be damaged. In that case,
the MOSFETs can fail, or the toroids burned. And that makes
repair a lot more difficult. The board would fail to POST if
that happened.

Paul

Paul wrote:
> McGregor wrote:
>> I'm trying setup running this ATX VA5 Mainboard running
>> but there are some problems. If anyone could share with
>> me own experience in using this mo/bo - I'd be very grateful.
>>
>> I'm trying to install Win XP Home but installation is
>> interrupted by constant self rebooting in the middle
>> of installation.
>>
>> My setup is:
>> MS-6309 ATX VA5 mainboard
>> CPU Pentium III Intel 933 MHz
>> Memory 2x256MB PC100
>> 40 BG Hitachi HD
>> Elsa 64 HB video display card
>>
>> Thanks for any advice -
>>
>> Jdr
>

Another frequent cause of problems, is a failing power supply.

You can use the "Hardware Monitor" page in the BIOS, as a
primitive means of evaluating things.

http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews/...es/BIOScpu.jpg

In that list, the 3.3V, 5V, and 12V come straight from the
power supply. The Vcore and 2.5V are derived voltages (and
I cannot honestly say what the 2.5V is for in this case -
I thought the RAM on the board uses 3.3V).

You want the three power supply voltages (3.3/5/12), to be
within 5% of the nominal value. The resolution of the measurement
chip is limited, and what is displayed is the time average
of the readings. There will be some moment to moment variation,
and that is normal and nothing to worry about. What you're looking
for, is the thing leaning by more than 5% from the idea value.
So if 12V read out as 11.4V, you'd be a bit more curious.

The whole story cannot be detected that way, because you
cannot observe the voltages on that screen, while the OS
installation is under way. A multimeter set to volts, is
one way to do it. Or hearing, smelling, or seeing an issue
with the power supply, is another way.

For example, on my oldest supply, I started to hear moment
to moment sound pitch variations in the cooling fan. Which is
an indication that there is more output variation in the 12V
rail on the power supply, than there used to be. So sometimes,
the power supply may give hints that it isn't happy.

Swapping the supply, is the least technically taxing workaround,
but at least one visitor to the forums, would insist on the
use of a multimeter :-) I'm a fan of "whatever works for ya".
Especially so, if you have a spare power supply that is in
a known working condition.

Paul

"Paul" <> wrote in message news:g5sdo2$kn4$...
> McGregor wrote:
>> I'm trying setup running this ATX VA5 Mainboard running
>> but there are some problems. If anyone could share with
>> me own experience in using this mo/bo - I'd be very grateful.
>>
>> I'm trying to install Win XP Home but installation is
>> interrupted by constant self rebooting in the middle
>> of installation.
>>
>> My setup is:
>> MS-6309 ATX VA5 mainboard
>> CPU Pentium III Intel 933 MHz
>> Memory 2x256MB PC100
>> 40 BG Hitachi HD
>> Elsa 64 HB video display card
>>
>> Thanks for any advice -
>>
>> Jdr
>
> A review of sorts here, with pictures. S370, VIA 694X/686A.
>
> http://www.hardware-one.com/print_re...sp?reviews=144
>
> These are the capacitors near the CPU socket. Usually split
> in two groups, one group for input filtering, the other for
> output filtering, on the switching Vcore regulator. Vcore
> powers the processor, and is converted from +5V or +12V,
> depending on generation of motherboard.
>
> http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews/.../capacitor.jpg
>
> The first thing I'd check, based on your symptom description,
> is bad capacitors. This is an example of some bulging and leaking
> capacitors. When they bulge and leak, it makes it hard for
> the Vcore regulator to maintain output power level, especially
> during power peaks.
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/image004.png
>
> The tops can bulge. The lines cut in the top, are for pressure
> relief and safety. The lines open, before the pressure becomes
> too great. The bottom of the cap has a rubber seal, and the
> seal can also blow out. A brown liquid can drool onto the
> motherboard, and the liquid will eventually dry leaving a
> brown stain. That would be evidence of capacitor failure.
>
> So start with a visual inspection. If the caps are failing,
> and have not caused collateral damage, the caps can be replaced.
> My main problem with that strategy, is finding good replacements.
> And a good replacement doesn't mean overengineering either,
> as replacing the caps with OSCONs may not be appropriate either.
> Some of those Vcore designs rely on the characteristics of the
> components they chose, meaning the design might not end up
> centered very well, if a super-expensive (non-electrolytic)
> replacement cap was used. Sometimes the necessary information,
> on capacitor selection, is present in the Vcore regulator chip
> datasheet.
>
> Examples of parts kits here. The last time I tried looking on some
> of the popular electronics sites, like Mouser and Digikey, I didn't
> really see anything I liked.
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=21
>
> If bad capacitors are left operating long enough, other
> components in the circuit can be damaged. In that case,
> the MOSFETs can fail, or the toroids burned. And that makes
> repair a lot more difficult. The board would fail to POST if
> that happened.
>
> Paul



Thank you Paul for your help.

As a matter of fact I tried a lot of
things with this main board. I bought it as a new and kept it for
some time not used. It is design for win 98- 2K and Win NT
back in July 2000. I don't see any bad capacitors or any
physical damage on the surface. But I'll take all your hints
into consideration when "playing with it" from now on.

As for PSU I suspected it from the beginning, swapped it
and it works fine with other GA mo/bo or MS 6178.
So, it should be OK. It might be the BIOS setting as I
suspect that some one may tempered with it
before.

Thanks for you helping both cases. That will keep me
going for a while. I'll POST the results as they occur.

Regards -
Jdr

Hi Paul,

Following your advice I meticulously examined mainboard
and swapped PSU - ( which works perfect with Supermicro
P6DBE Pent III 2xCPU 850 MHz) - So it must be then
mainboard fault. But where?
I am determined to make this mo/bo work. It might take some
time but I'll do my best and what I can.

I'd apreciate any former use of MS-6309 to share with me their
experience.
Thanks Paul and regards -

Jdr


"Paul" <> wrote in message news:g5sf15$ou1$...
> Paul wrote:
> > McGregor wrote:
> >> I'm trying setup running this ATX VA5 Mainboard running
> >> but there are some problems. If anyone could share with
> >> me own experience in using this mo/bo - I'd be very grateful.
> >>
> >> I'm trying to install Win XP Home but installation is
> >> interrupted by constant self rebooting in the middle
> >> of installation.
> >>
> >> My setup is:
> >> MS-6309 ATX VA5 mainboard
> >> CPU Pentium III Intel 933 MHz
> >> Memory 2x256MB PC100
> >> 40 BG Hitachi HD
> >> Elsa 64 HB video display card
> >>
> >> Thanks for any advice -
> >>
> >> Jdr
> >
>
> Another frequent cause of problems, is a failing power supply.
>
> You can use the "Hardware Monitor" page in the BIOS, as a
> primitive means of evaluating things.
>
> http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews/...es/BIOScpu.jpg
>
> In that list, the 3.3V, 5V, and 12V come straight from the
> power supply. The Vcore and 2.5V are derived voltages (and
> I cannot honestly say what the 2.5V is for in this case -
> I thought the RAM on the board uses 3.3V).
>
> You want the three power supply voltages (3.3/5/12), to be
> within 5% of the nominal value. The resolution of the measurement
> chip is limited, and what is displayed is the time average
> of the readings. There will be some moment to moment variation,
> and that is normal and nothing to worry about. What you're looking
> for, is the thing leaning by more than 5% from the idea value.
> So if 12V read out as 11.4V, you'd be a bit more curious.
>
> The whole story cannot be detected that way, because you
> cannot observe the voltages on that screen, while the OS
> installation is under way. A multimeter set to volts, is
> one way to do it. Or hearing, smelling, or seeing an issue
> with the power supply, is another way.
>
> For example, on my oldest supply, I started to hear moment
> to moment sound pitch variations in the cooling fan. Which is
> an indication that there is more output variation in the 12V
> rail on the power supply, than there used to be. So sometimes,
> the power supply may give hints that it isn't happy.
>
> Swapping the supply, is the least technically taxing workaround,
> but at least one visitor to the forums, would insist on the
> use of a multimeter :-) I'm a fan of "whatever works for ya".
> Especially so, if you have a spare power supply that is in
> a known working condition.
>
> Paul

"Paul" <> wrote in message news:g5sdo2$kn4$...
> McGregor wrote:
>> I'm trying setup running this ATX VA5 Mainboard running
>> but there are some problems. If anyone could share with
>> me own experience in using this mo/bo - I'd be very grateful.
>>
>> I'm trying to install Win XP Home but installation is
>> interrupted by constant self rebooting in the middle
>> of installation.
>>
>> My setup is:
>> MS-6309 ATX VA5 mainboard
>> CPU Pentium III Intel 933 MHz
>> Memory 2x256MB PC100
>> 40 BG Hitachi HD
>> Elsa 64 HB video display card
>>
>> Thanks for any advice -
>>
>> Jdr
>
> A review of sorts here, with pictures. S370, VIA 694X/686A.
>
> http://www.hardware-one.com/print_re...sp?reviews=144
>
> These are the capacitors near the CPU socket. Usually split
> in two groups, one group for input filtering, the other for
> output filtering, on the switching Vcore regulator. Vcore
> powers the processor, and is converted from +5V or +12V,
> depending on generation of motherboard.
>
> http://www.hardware-one.com/reviews/.../capacitor.jpg
>
> The first thing I'd check, based on your symptom description,
> is bad capacitors. This is an example of some bulging and leaking
> capacitors. When they bulge and leak, it makes it hard for
> the Vcore regulator to maintain output power level, especially
> during power peaks.
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/image004.png
>
> The tops can bulge. The lines cut in the top, are for pressure
> relief and safety. The lines open, before the pressure becomes


Hi Paul, again... after spending some time comparing the
top of these 5 capacitors finally I can say that they ARE
bulged at the top slightly. Now, the only thing left is to see
whether they can be obtained separately from somewhere.

Thanks for your help again.
Jdr


> too great. The bottom of the cap has a rubber seal, and the
> seal can also blow out. A brown liquid can drool onto the
> motherboard, and the liquid will eventually dry leaving a
> brown stain. That would be evidence of capacitor failure.
>
> So start with a visual inspection. If the caps are failing,
> and have not caused collateral damage, the caps can be replaced.
> My main problem with that strategy, is finding good replacements.
> And a good replacement doesn't mean overengineering either,
> as replacing the caps with OSCONs may not be appropriate either.
> Some of those Vcore designs rely on the characteristics of the
> components they chose, meaning the design might not end up
> centered very well, if a super-expensive (non-electrolytic)
> replacement cap was used. Sometimes the necessary information,
> on capacitor selection, is present in the Vcore regulator chip
> datasheet.
>
> Examples of parts kits here. The last time I tried looking on some
> of the popular electronics sites, like Mouser and Digikey, I didn't
> really see anything I liked.
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=21
>
> If bad capacitors are left operating long enough, other
> components in the circuit can be damaged. In that case,
> the MOSFETs can fail, or the toroids burned. And that makes
> repair a lot more difficult. The board would fail to POST if
> that happened.
>
> Paul