MicroATX case for Core 2 Duo

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to build an HTPC and space it seems is a constraint, I've
decided to choose the Antec Fusion case (its the best available in
India) http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=15738#

However, I need to choose a MicroATX board, I'm thinking Asus or Intel,
can you recommend one that is good, has good on board sound (SDPIF),
can support the Asus EN7600GT Silent graphics card, and has built in
Wireless 802.11 a/b/g (n would be nice) support?

Thanks for your help.
Gravity

There was a review of MicroATX boards on tomshardware.com this week
see
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/11/...e_2/index.html





<> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm trying to build an HTPC and space it seems is a constraint, I've
> decided to choose the Antec Fusion case (its the best available in
> India) http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=15738#
>
> However, I need to choose a , I'm thinking Asus or Intel,
> can you recommend one that is good, has good on board sound (SDPIF),
> can support the Asus EN7600GT Silent graphics card, and has built in
> Wireless 802.11 a/b/g (n would be nice) support?
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Gravity
>

wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm trying to build an HTPC and space it seems is a constraint, I've
> decided to choose the Antec Fusion case (its the best available in
> India) http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=15738#
>
> However, I need to choose a MicroATX board, I'm thinking Asus or Intel,
> can you recommend one that is good, has good on board sound (SDPIF),
> can support the Asus EN7600GT Silent graphics card, and has built in
> Wireless 802.11 a/b/g (n would be nice) support?
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Gravity
>

P5B-VM is MicroATX and takes Core 2 Duo.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16813131043

The description says it has SPDIF, but the SPDIF is just a header
on the motherboard (a 1x4 connector). You need an optional module
to connect to the SPDIF signal. As near as I can tell by looking at
the downloadable Asus user manual, the SPDIF module would be this
one. (This one appears to have the right wiring colors for the job.)

http://estore.asus.com/shop/item.asp...1013&catid=215
http://estore.asus.com/images/80-C1T61U-0100A.JPG

The "estore" site only sells product in North America. You may
have to talk to Tech Support at Asus, to find out the nearest
source of the optional module. The optional module has two
resistors and a capacitor, which AC couple and attenuate the
SPDIF signal to the right level to drive a 75 ohm coax cable.
The motherboard signal is not suitable for driving a coax
directly.

This is a picture of the EN7600GT Silent. It doesn't look like
it will have a problem fitting with respect to the motherboard
components.

http://img.xcomputer.cz/ImgW.asp?cd=EC245b&fd=f3

But the Antec Fusion case is only tall enough to hold 120mm fans
for cooling. That means the interior dimension is 4.7 inches. If
I measure a video card, it is about 4.25 inches tall, which means
when the Asus heatsink is rotated into place, it will bump into
the cover on the Antec Fusion case.

What you want, is a video card with passive cooling via an ordinary
heatsink. That way, the video card will have a low enough height,
so the top will fit on the Fusion case.

There are more pictures of the Fusion here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129131

I don't really see a 7600GT with a good cooling solution on
it for you. The cards with fan based cooling, use a pretty
small heatsink. That usually means the fan has to work pretty
hard to keep the card cool.

You could try something like a VF900, but it may
extend slightly above the top of the video card, and
come very close to the cover on the Fusion. It probably
fits, but I'd hate to waste the money on one of these,
only to find out it is too tall.

http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/Overclo...t_254533_3.htm
http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/...x=192&code=013

This is the problem with small cases - the builder has to
do a lot of research, to find solutions that will
physically fit in the case. And keep the hardware cool
enough so it runs properly. Apparently, if the 7600GT
gets too hot, it has a throttle function. And the
3DMark performance drops to 30% of normal values, if
the card overheats.

I guess I'd start by buying a 7600GT with a fan and
the small heatsink. That would fit in the Fusion case.
Then, if it is too loud, you'll have more research to
do, to fix it.

There are more comments here, for a card with an ordinary
cooling solution:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16814130017

Paul

Hey!

Thanks for the input, and I dont think I could be any more
confused..here is what I'm thinking as of now.

I'm trying to build an HTPC so noise is something I need to
consider..being in India (I believe Antec Fusion is the best case I can
get for an HTPC)

My primary configuration needs to have some basic things
1. A nice sound card (i'm thinking the Creative XFi without the
external application (the one that increases the ports))
2. A nice graphics card (I had the ASUS 7600GT Silent in mind cause of
the silent operation, I dont think I'll be playing too many games,
maybe once in a while, but I do have a 42" LCD TV, and I'm looking for
HD Playback, thinking of fitting it with a blue ray drive eventually)
3. A TV Tuner card, I have the Hauppauge PVR 500 or the 150 in mind,
I'm yet to figure out what their basic differences are, I'll get the
MCE Kit so that I get the windows remote control)

So all of this will take up my 2 PCI cards and 1 PCI-Express (graphics)
slot, which is basically the max that a MicroATX Case offers.

What I'm left with is an IR recevier and WiFi capabilities, I dont know
how to plug the WiFi in, now that all my PCI slots are gone, I have the
ASUS P5V-VM SE DH motherboard in mind
(http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?m...&l2=11&l3=369),
primarily cause it has built in WiFi, but I still havent figured out if
its that great. It uses a VIA chipset though. The motherboard also has
an IR Reciver, but I dont know if I can use the same reciever for my
MCE remote..I also dont know if the Hauppauge PVR-500 MCE kit comes
with an IR reciver, I have a feeling that it does.

For processing power, I'm thinking of putting an E6300 Core 2 Duo, I
dont feel the need for pumping up the processor that much, and I'm not
too much into OC'ing.

HDD would be like a SATA 500 gb'ish, and for now I'll just fit it with
a DVD drive, and wait for the Blue Ray price to fall.

First off, is what I'm thinking on the right track?
Secondly, is the motherboard fine, and if not, how do i tackle the WiFi
problem.
Third, the Creative sound card, doesnt not have an SPDIF connector, it
just throws out 3 cables I think, so I dont know if the creative is a
good idea or not, I still feel that the audio quality of the onboard
sound card will be crappy, I'll be feeding my audio ultimately to an
Onkyo THX certified reciever.

The case is retrofitted with a 430W power supply and 2 variable speed
fans, I was hoping that one fan on top of the processor would be
sufficient as it would cool down the radiator of the graphics card as
well.

I dont exactly know what I'm asking, but I'm just trying to figure out
if what I've chosen is good or not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Paul wrote:
> wrote:
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > I'm trying to build an HTPC and space it seems is a constraint, I've
> > decided to choose the Antec Fusion case (its the best available in
> > India) http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=15738#
> >
> > However, I need to choose a MicroATX board, I'm thinking Asus or Intel,
> > can you recommend one that is good, has good on board sound (SDPIF),
> > can support the Asus EN7600GT Silent graphics card, and has built in
> > Wireless 802.11 a/b/g (n would be nice) support?
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
> > Gravity
> >
>
> P5B-VM is MicroATX and takes Core 2 Duo.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16813131043
>
> The description says it has SPDIF, but the SPDIF is just a header
> on the motherboard (a 1x4 connector). You need an optional module
> to connect to the SPDIF signal. As near as I can tell by looking at
> the downloadable Asus user manual, the SPDIF module would be this
> one. (This one appears to have the right wiring colors for the job.)
>
> http://estore.asus.com/shop/item.asp...1013&catid=215
> http://estore.asus.com/images/80-C1T61U-0100A.JPG
>
> The "estore" site only sells product in North America. You may
> have to talk to Tech Support at Asus, to find out the nearest
> source of the optional module. The optional module has two
> resistors and a capacitor, which AC couple and attenuate the
> SPDIF signal to the right level to drive a 75 ohm coax cable.
> The motherboard signal is not suitable for driving a coax
> directly.
>
> This is a picture of the EN7600GT Silent. It doesn't look like
> it will have a problem fitting with respect to the motherboard
> components.
>
> http://img.xcomputer.cz/ImgW.asp?cd=EC245b&fd=f3
>
> But the Antec Fusion case is only tall enough to hold 120mm fans
> for cooling. That means the interior dimension is 4.7 inches. If
> I measure a video card, it is about 4.25 inches tall, which means
> when the Asus heatsink is rotated into place, it will bump into
> the cover on the Antec Fusion case.
>
> What you want, is a video card with passive cooling via an ordinary
> heatsink. That way, the video card will have a low enough height,
> so the top will fit on the Fusion case.
>
> There are more pictures of the Fusion here:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129131
>
> I don't really see a 7600GT with a good cooling solution on
> it for you. The cards with fan based cooling, use a pretty
> small heatsink. That usually means the fan has to work pretty
> hard to keep the card cool.
>
> You could try something like a VF900, but it may
> extend slightly above the top of the video card, and
> come very close to the cover on the Fusion. It probably
> fits, but I'd hate to waste the money on one of these,
> only to find out it is too tall.
>
> http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/Overclo...t_254533_3.htm
> http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/...x=192&code=013
>
> This is the problem with small cases - the builder has to
> do a lot of research, to find solutions that will
> physically fit in the case. And keep the hardware cool
> enough so it runs properly. Apparently, if the 7600GT
> gets too hot, it has a throttle function. And the
> 3DMark performance drops to 30% of normal values, if
> the card overheats.
>
> I guess I'd start by buying a 7600GT with a fan and
> the small heatsink. That would fit in the Fusion case.
> Then, if it is too loud, you'll have more research to
> do, to fix it.
>
> There are more comments here, for a card with an ordinary
> cooling solution:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16814130017
>
> Paul

Paul wrote:
> wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I'm trying to build an HTPC and space it seems is a constraint, I've
>> decided to choose the Antec Fusion case (its the best available in
>> India) http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=15738#
>>
>> However, I need to choose a MicroATX board, I'm thinking Asus or Intel,
>> can you recommend one that is good, has good on board sound (SDPIF),
>> can support the Asus EN7600GT Silent graphics card, and has built in
>> Wireless 802.11 a/b/g (n would be nice) support?
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>> Gravity
>>
>
> P5B-VM is MicroATX and takes Core 2 Duo.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16813131043
>
> The description says it has SPDIF, but the SPDIF is just a header
> on the motherboard (a 1x4 connector). You need an optional module
> to connect to the SPDIF signal. As near as I can tell by looking at
> the downloadable Asus user manual, the SPDIF module would be this
> one. (This one appears to have the right wiring colors for the job.)
>
> http://estore.asus.com/shop/item.asp...1013&catid=215
> http://estore.asus.com/images/80-C1T61U-0100A.JPG
>
> The "estore" site only sells product in North America. You may
> have to talk to Tech Support at Asus, to find out the nearest
> source of the optional module. The optional module has two
> resistors and a capacitor, which AC couple and attenuate the
> SPDIF signal to the right level to drive a 75 ohm coax cable.
> The motherboard signal is not suitable for driving a coax
> directly.
>
> This is a picture of the EN7600GT Silent. It doesn't look like
> it will have a problem fitting with respect to the motherboard
> components.
>
> http://img.xcomputer.cz/ImgW.asp?cd=EC245b&fd=f3
>
> But the Antec Fusion case is only tall enough to hold 120mm fans
> for cooling. That means the interior dimension is 4.7 inches. If
> I measure a video card, it is about 4.25 inches tall, which means
> when the Asus heatsink is rotated into place, it will bump into
> the cover on the Antec Fusion case.
>
> What you want, is a video card with passive cooling via an ordinary
> heatsink. That way, the video card will have a low enough height,
> so the top will fit on the Fusion case.
>
> There are more pictures of the Fusion here:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129131
>
> I don't really see a 7600GT with a good cooling solution on
> it for you. The cards with fan based cooling, use a pretty
> small heatsink. That usually means the fan has to work pretty
> hard to keep the card cool.

Here is one I have considered (not in a micro-ATX size case though):
http://www.leadtek.co.uk/
and step down to the WinFast PX7600 GT TDH (Exclusive design)
but finally I selected a Sparcle 7300GT with 512M memory, 70 USD lower
price) which turns out to fully adequate for gaming

--
th

wrote:
> Hey!
>
> Thanks for the input, and I dont think I could be any more
> confused..here is what I'm thinking as of now.
>
> I'm trying to build an HTPC so noise is something I need to
> consider..being in India (I believe Antec Fusion is the best case I can
> get for an HTPC)
>
> My primary configuration needs to have some basic things
> 1. A nice sound card (i'm thinking the Creative XFi without the
> external application (the one that increases the ports))
> 2. A nice graphics card (I had the ASUS 7600GT Silent in mind cause of
> the silent operation, I dont think I'll be playing too many games,
> maybe once in a while, but I do have a 42" LCD TV, and I'm looking for
> HD Playback, thinking of fitting it with a blue ray drive eventually)
> 3. A TV Tuner card, I have the Hauppauge PVR 500 or the 150 in mind,
> I'm yet to figure out what their basic differences are, I'll get the
> MCE Kit so that I get the windows remote control)
>
> So all of this will take up my 2 PCI cards and 1 PCI-Express (graphics)
> slot, which is basically the max that a MicroATX Case offers.
>
> What I'm left with is an IR recevier and WiFi capabilities, I dont know
> how to plug the WiFi in, now that all my PCI slots are gone, I have the
> ASUS P5V-VM SE DH motherboard in mind
> (http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?m...&l2=11&l3=369),
> primarily cause it has built in WiFi, but I still havent figured out if
> its that great. It uses a VIA chipset though. The motherboard also has
> an IR Reciver, but I dont know if I can use the same reciever for my
> MCE remote..I also dont know if the Hauppauge PVR-500 MCE kit comes
> with an IR reciver, I have a feeling that it does.
>
> For processing power, I'm thinking of putting an E6300 Core 2 Duo, I
> dont feel the need for pumping up the processor that much, and I'm not
> too much into OC'ing.
>
> HDD would be like a SATA 500 gb'ish, and for now I'll just fit it with
> a DVD drive, and wait for the Blue Ray price to fall.
>
> First off, is what I'm thinking on the right track?
> Secondly, is the motherboard fine, and if not, how do i tackle the WiFi
> problem.
> Third, the Creative sound card, doesnt not have an SPDIF connector, it
> just throws out 3 cables I think, so I dont know if the creative is a
> good idea or not, I still feel that the audio quality of the onboard
> sound card will be crappy, I'll be feeding my audio ultimately to an
> Onkyo THX certified reciever.
>
> The case is retrofitted with a 430W power supply and 2 variable speed
> fans, I was hoping that one fan on top of the processor would be
> sufficient as it would cool down the radiator of the graphics card as
> well.
>
> I dont exactly know what I'm asking, but I'm just trying to figure out
> if what I've chosen is good or not.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>

OK, let's concentrate on HD playback for a second.

"NVIDIA's PureVideo HD: HD-DVD Playback on the PC"
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2798&p=1

Hardware suitable for the job is listed here:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/nzone_pvhd_faq.html
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_pvhd_build.html

A E6300 or E6400 sounds good for the job. You can always
overclock a tiny bit, if the CPU actually manages to run
at 100%.

I share your skepticism about VIA chipsets. If money was no
object, I'd stick with Intel for now. Some of the VIA chipsets
might just be overclocked versions of their previous chipsets.
No matter what chipset you use, it always pays to read
as many customer reviews as possible, as every company
in the industry, cuts corners somewhere.

This video card has HDCP, for a day in the future where the
content you wish to play at HD resolutions, is content protected.
HDCP is for all digital transmission to the viewing device, where
crypto is used to protect the content from being copied. Without
HDCP, a lower playback resolution may be offered. This will not
be a problem initially, but will be a problem some day. Thus,
buying an HDCP enabled card now, is preparing for the future.
You can ignore HDCP for the time being.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121028

That card has the feature set for HD playback, but customer reviews
are that it is too loud for HTPC applications. One reviewer mentions
the VF900 as an aftermarket cooling solution for it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16814121028

That card is a single slot. The card will only get hot when gaming.
And, if you use the right tools, you can always turn down the clocks
on the card, to 7600GS levels, to save more power. (I.e. Only use
enough core clock, to keep the CPU under 100% during video playback.)

This is what I recommend you do.

1) Select a HTPC case that will accept a full sized motherboard. This
is an example. This case is 6.7" high, meaning you will have fewer
height issues with your plug-in cards.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc17.htm

2) Buy the Asus video card. Buy a Zalman VF900 or a similar after
market cooler. Expect to lose the slot adjacent to the video card.
No problem, as long as the slot is "useless" anyway.

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/...x=192&code=013

3) Buy a full sized ATX motherboard. This will give you more slots.
You really need the slots, for the day when you see a nice new tuner
etc. For example, this P5B-V has PCI Express x1 slots on either
side of the video card slot, leaving plenty of room for a video
card with extended cooling solution.

http://www.asus.com.tw/products.aspx...14&modelmenu=2

This P5W DH Deluxe motherboard will be much more expensive, but
has Wifi built-in. (I believe the Wifi card plugs into a USB
header on the motherboard itself.) You'll get to use all three
PCI slots, because the video card won't get in the way.

http://www.asus.com.tw/products4.asp...3&l2=11&l3=248
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131025
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Custra...82E16813131025 (reviews)
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...131-025-03.JPG (picture)

Hope that gives you a few ideas.

Basically, having a small computer case, and having the world's most
powerful computer, don't go hand in hand. There will be some
compromises along the way. If you allow the computer case to be
a bit bigger, that will allow expansion of the system, as your
needs change with time. A small case, with only enough room for
today's requirements, won't last quite as long.

There are WiFi devices that connect via USB2. There are probably
IR remote interfaces that connect by USB2 as well. You can use
USB2 to fill in the gaps of your project. Even some tuners come
in USB2 versions.

Paul