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Need to upgrade an old GeForce 8500GT w/256ram

 
 
a1pcfixer
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      01-17-2011, 05:18 PM
I'm needing to upgrade an old GeForce 8500GT w/256ram, which came stock
on a Gateway Desktop GM5632E, and running Vista Ultimate, on a 24" LCD
monitor.

I'm thinking the solder joints are starting to fail on this old one.
After being on a couple days, the display starts to disintergrate, then
BSOD's to needing a cool down & reboot. It's old, outdated & time to
go!

I'm an old gamer (Unreal Tournament & Quake) and sometimes run my R/C
flight sim (RealFlight 4.5 which likes 512MB vid RAM or more).

So, top of the line vid card really isn't needed, but I'd like one with
1GB RAM, no extra PS connector required, and similar sized to what it
came with would be good (about 6 3/4" Long x 4" deep). I have a little
room in length before running into things....say NO MORE than 9 1/2"
long.

Stock PS is rated as follows;
400W max
+5/+3.3 max 140W
+12v(1) and +12v(2) max 30A

NVidia has so many choices, I'm needing some suggestions.

So; 1GB-RAM, short card preferred, NO extra PS connector on card
needed, PCIe 16, NVidia ONLY (sorry, no ATI for me).

Suggestions please?

 
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Paul
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      01-17-2011, 06:17 PM
a1pcfixer wrote:
> I'm needing to upgrade an old GeForce 8500GT w/256ram, which came stock
> on a Gateway Desktop GM5632E, and running Vista Ultimate, on a 24" LCD
> monitor.
>
> I'm thinking the solder joints are starting to fail on this old one.
> After being on a couple days, the display starts to disintergrate, then
> BSOD's to needing a cool down & reboot. It's old, outdated & time to
> go!
>
> I'm an old gamer (Unreal Tournament & Quake) and sometimes run my R/C
> flight sim (RealFlight 4.5 which likes 512MB vid RAM or more).
>
> So, top of the line vid card really isn't needed, but I'd like one with
> 1GB RAM, no extra PS connector required, and similar sized to what it
> came with would be good (about 6 3/4" Long x 4" deep). I have a little
> room in length before running into things....say NO MORE than 9 1/2"
> long.
>
> Stock PS is rated as follows;
> 400W max
> +5/+3.3 max 140W
> +12v(1) and +12v(2) max 30A
>
> NVidia has so many choices, I'm needing some suggestions.
>
> So; 1GB-RAM, short card preferred, NO extra PS connector on card
> needed, PCIe 16, NVidia ONLY (sorry, no ATI for me).
>
> Suggestions please?
>


GT-220
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130522

According to this, it draws around 58W. The 8500 GT was around 40W.
But that's only if you believe the information here.

http://www.gpureview.com/videocards.php

A check of the power numbers here, shows the estimated power consumption
to be wildly optimistic. Measurements of a real card, yield 21W as
the peak power consumption of GT 220. In terms of your computer, that will be
coming from the 12V rail, and thus is a load of around 12V @ 2A, from the
motherboard slot connector.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...0_3.html#sect0

Based on the Xbitlabs chart, it looks like the GT 240 might meet
your requirement as well, of not needing an Aux connector for power.
This is an example of a GT 240 with GDDR5 RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814261056

http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-GT-...-card-619.html

You can use the charts here, if you need some benchmarks. Your
old card and the new card, may not appear in the same chart,
so it'll take a bit of clicking, to get comparable numbers.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts

Paul
 
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a1pcfixer
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      01-17-2011, 09:44 PM
Paul,

> A check of the power numbers here, shows the estimated power consumption
> to be wildly optimistic. Measurements of a real card, yield 21W as
> the peak power consumption of GT 220. In terms of your computer, that will be
> coming from the 12V rail, and thus is a load of around 12V @ 2A, from the
> motherboard slot connector.


Thanks for that info, it helps.
The following one you recommended is more towards what I'd like to get........

> Http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-GT-...-card-619.html


That one is looking mighty good!

I noticed the reviews stating these cards have an onboard audio chip, ported
through the HDMI connection. I don't (yet) use the HDMI port, and my onboard
MoBo audio is disabled, instead running my audio via an external Creative Labs
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Video Editor (USB 2.x connection)

Do you see any problems with that GT 240 card's onboard audio & my setup?

Maybe my current 8500GT has it too & I didn't notice as I'm not using the HDMI
port?


Jim L.

 
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Paul
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      01-17-2011, 10:44 PM
a1pcfixer wrote:
> Paul,
>
>> A check of the power numbers here, shows the estimated power consumption
>> to be wildly optimistic. Measurements of a real card, yield 21W as
>> the peak power consumption of GT 220. In terms of your computer, that will be
>> coming from the 12V rail, and thus is a load of around 12V @ 2A, from the
>> motherboard slot connector.

>
> Thanks for that info, it helps.
> The following one you recommended is more towards what I'd like to get........
>
>> Http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-GT-...-card-619.html

>
> That one is looking mighty good!
>
> I noticed the reviews stating these cards have an onboard audio chip, ported
> through the HDMI connection. I don't (yet) use the HDMI port, and my onboard
> MoBo audio is disabled, instead running my audio via an external Creative Labs
> Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Video Editor (USB 2.x connection)
>
> Do you see any problems with that GT 240 card's onboard audio & my setup?
>
> Maybe my current 8500GT has it too & I didn't notice as I'm not using the HDMI
> port?
>
>
> Jim L.


When you have Audio over HDMI, then expect to find an additional selection
in your Sound control panel. You may see two output devices listed, your
existing USB audio device, and the new audio over HDMI (HDaudio) device.
All that you have to do, is click the one you want the audio to come out
on, and that should be it.

Depending on your cunning with drivers, it might also be possible to
disable the HDMI audio entirely, and not give it a driver. You can use
Device Manager to disabled devices you don't want. But if the driver
package on the CD in the video card box, insists on installing everything,
you can just use the Sound control panel to sort out who gets the signal.
(That would be the "path of least resistance".)

This isn't the exact control panel, but it illustrates making the choice.

http://webpages.charter.net/chew_toy...Audio%20-1.PNG

I've found in the past, that when a sound driver installs, it tends to
go to the Sound control panel, and make itself the desired choice. In your
case, you'll want to undo that, so after the new card is installed,
the selection will be in the wrong position for what you want. Chances
are, you'll need to change it back.

One other word of warning - the safe computing warning. While installing
new hardware is normally a seamless, and happy experience, sometimes
stuff happens. Make sure you have a backup of your C:, before installing
the new card. If you have regrets later, you'll have something to restore
with, and try again.

I normally uninstall the existing driver, shut down, unplug the old card,
plug in the new card, then use the new installer CD to do the job. I follow
that method now, after filling one of my OS installs with all sorts of garbage
(three different brands of video cards). To avoid too much irrelevant
cruft, it helps to uninstall the existing driver, just before changing
the hardware. (That way, you don't have ATI files still running on your
Nvidia machine, or vice versa.)

Paul
 
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a1pcfixer
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      01-17-2011, 11:57 PM
Paul,

> You may see two output devices listed, your
> existing USB audio device, and the new audio over HDMI (HDaudio) device.
> All that you have to do, is click the one you want the audio to come out
> on, and that should be it.
>
> Depending on your cunning with drivers, it might also be possible to
> disable the HDMI audio entirely, and not give it a driver


Thanks for that. I'll keep an eye open for such changes, and change it back if
need be.

> One other word of warning - the safe computing warning. While installing
> new hardware is normally a seamless, and happy experience, sometimes
> stuff happens. Make sure you have a backup of your C:, before installing
> the new card. If you have regrets later, you'll have something to restore
> with, and try again.


I use Drive Image from....
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/index.htm

> I normally uninstall the existing driver, shut down, unplug the old card,
> plug in the new card, then use the new installer CD to do the job.
> (That way, you don't have ATI files still running on your
> Nvidia machine, or vice versa.)


I do the same, but also use Drive Cleaner....
http://www.drivercleaner.net/index.php
....that puppy can even clean various factory install files for ATI/nVidia from
MS .cab files!

Thanks for your help!


 
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Foke
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      01-18-2011, 05:34 PM
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 11:18:23 -0600, a1pcfixer <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I'm needing to upgrade an old GeForce 8500GT w/256ram, which came stock
>on a Gateway Desktop GM5632E, and running Vista Ultimate, on a 24" LCD
>monitor.
>
>I'm thinking the solder joints are starting to fail on this old one.
>After being on a couple days, the display starts to disintergrate, then
>BSOD's to needing a cool down & reboot. It's old, outdated & time to
>go!
>
>I'm an old gamer (Unreal Tournament & Quake) and sometimes run my R/C
>flight sim (RealFlight 4.5 which likes 512MB vid RAM or more).
>
>So, top of the line vid card really isn't needed, but I'd like one with
>1GB RAM, no extra PS connector required, and similar sized to what it
>came with would be good (about 6 3/4" Long x 4" deep). I have a little
>room in length before running into things....say NO MORE than 9 1/2"
>long.
>
>Stock PS is rated as follows;
>400W max
>+5/+3.3 max 140W
>+12v(1) and +12v(2) max 30A
>
>NVidia has so many choices, I'm needing some suggestions.
>
>So; 1GB-RAM, short card preferred, NO extra PS connector on card
>needed, PCIe 16, NVidia ONLY (sorry, no ATI for me).
>
>Suggestions please?


You kind of limit yourself with the "no extra PS connector". Your ideal
card would probably be the GTX 460, which is virtually silent, sips power,
runs cool and eliminates the extra connection to a sound card for the HDMI
audio.
 
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a1pcfixer
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      01-18-2011, 07:44 PM
Foke,

> You kind of limit yourself with the "no extra PS connector". Your ideal
> card would probably be the GTX 460


That's intentional, as I'm limited by the stock P/S and size of the card,
not to mention money;-(

 
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Foke
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      01-19-2011, 05:36 PM
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:44:35 -0600, a1pcfixer <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Foke,
>
>> You kind of limit yourself with the "no extra PS connector". Your ideal
>> card would probably be the GTX 460

>
>That's intentional, as I'm limited by the stock P/S and size of the card,
>not to mention money;-(


Most GTX 460's come with adapters (my EVGA card had two) to convert two 4
pin Molex connectors to the 6 pin power connector required for the card.
Of course you would need 4 spare Molex connectors...

It's not a very large card either, but I can see where the $100 price
difference could be a show-stopper. Good luck with your search!
 
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a1pcfixer
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      01-28-2011, 04:10 PM
Paul,

This is the card I ended up getting, which you recommended;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814261056

Ran DriveCleaner.net to TOTALLY clean out ALL old drivers and reg
entries, installed card, updated to latest drivers, and all is much
better now!

I needed to reset the GPU fan speed. Dynamic, it didn't speed up as I
felt it should during 3D gaming, and got too hot. Used vTune to set to
61% manual, and it now runs perfectly. Noise is minimal.

Vista System rating overall went from 4.8 -to- 5.6 (big jump!)
3D score in that went from 5.6 -to- 5.8

Thank-you very much for your help!

Jim L.

 
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Paul
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      01-28-2011, 06:40 PM
a1pcfixer wrote:
> Paul,
>
> This is the card I ended up getting, which you recommended;
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814261056
>
> Ran DriveCleaner.net to TOTALLY clean out ALL old drivers and reg
> entries, installed card, updated to latest drivers, and all is much
> better now!
>
> I needed to reset the GPU fan speed. Dynamic, it didn't speed up as I
> felt it should during 3D gaming, and got too hot. Used vTune to set to
> 61% manual, and it now runs perfectly. Noise is minimal.
>
> Vista System rating overall went from 4.8 -to- 5.6 (big jump!)
> 3D score in that went from 5.6 -to- 5.8
>
> Thank-you very much for your help!
>
> Jim L.
>


If you decide to update your Nvidia driver at a future date,
continue to monitor fan operation. As long as these fans
are software controlled, there will always be a danger the
fan can shut off completely. You don't have to do that
daily or anything - just check things after each Nvidia
driver update (which shouldn't be too frequent).

I can relate a little story about the fan on my Nvidia card.
I dual boot Windows and Linux. For Linux, the dual boot might be
a Linux LiveCD (rather than a hard drive install). The LiveCD
uses a generic driver by default, and the Nvidia specific driver
(as you download from Nvidia) is not included. To update the
driver in a LiveCD environment, requires a reboot, after which
the changes are lost.

When I boot Linux that way, the video card fan runs at 100% speed.
For the entire Linux session. The fan on my card, sounded like a vacuum
cleaner.

To fix that, I disconnected the fan from the header on the video
card, and made my own control circuit for it. This isn't a solution
for everyone, and I'm not advocating you do that. But that
was my solution, on a low end card.

You don't have to do that, except to note that purely software
control of these fans is a dumb idea (when the software needed
is potentially missing). I could have lived with the product
unaltered, if I stayed in Windows, but I wasn't going to listen
to that vacuum cleaner, because some idiot designer thought it
was a good idea :-) My fan now runs at a constant speed, whether
in Windows or Linux. And I no longer have to pay attention to
drivers, as the fan is no longer under software control. I profiled
temperatures before making the small mod, and keep within the
temperature range as was implemented under software control.

Paul
 
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