new 15-inch MBP = Retina Display 2880x1800, up to 16 GB RAM, USB3,HDMI port

"The very best computer that we've ever built."

In article <6165d998-f911-4ed5-bfef->,
wrote:

> "The very best computer that we've ever built."

Until the next update anyway.

The new 15" Retina MacBook Pro is basically a replacement for the 17"
MacBook Pro, i.e. expensive. The Retina display will filter down to the
other MacBook Pro and MacBook Air models at some stage (likely the next
update).

I'm a bit surprised that the 13" MacBook Pro is reportedly using a faster
CPU than the 15" MacBook Pro (unless that's a reporters typo). Mind you,
releasing all this updated hardware at the Developers Confernece is a
surprise (the phrase "under new management" springs to mind).

No new iMacs though and the whiners will continue on about the Mac Pro not
really being updated.

Helpful Harry )

In article
<HelpfulHarry->,
(Helpful Harry) wrote:

> I'm a bit surprised that the 13" MacBook Pro is reportedly using a faster
> CPU than the 15" MacBook Pro (unless that's a reporters typo).

13" 2.5 GHz dual core i5 or 2.9 GHz dual core i7
15" 2.3 GHz quad core i7 or 2.6 GHz quad core i7

It's not all about the speed of the processor.

--
Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.

Helpful Harry <> wrote:

> In article <6165d998-f911-4ed5-bfef->,
> wrote:
>
> > "The very best computer that we've ever built."
>
> Until the next update anyway.
>
> The new 15" Retina MacBook Pro is basically a replacement for the 17"
> MacBook Pro, i.e. expensive. The Retina display will filter down to the
> other MacBook Pro and MacBook Air models at some stage (likely the next
> update).

Retina display has significantly higher power consumption, so needs a
bigger battery to compensate, unless Apple was willing to sacrifice
battery operating time.

The 11" Air, 13" Air, 13" Pro and old 15" Pro bodies don't have enough
room for a bigger battery, so can't have retina display.

The new 15" Pro body saved enough space by eliminating the optical
drive, 2.5" drive bay, socketed RAM and some ports that it could be made
thinner and still have more space for the battery.

The pattern I'd expect to see is that in next year's major update (April
to July 2013, after Intel releases the Haswell processors), the
old-style 13" and 15" Pro models will be discontinued. A thinner 13" Pro
model with retina display and SSD, and possibly a 15" Air to fill the
price gap below the 15" Pro. The 15" Pro should get somewhat cheaper as
SSD prices will have dropped by then.

The main question is timing, and the ongoing popularity of the old-style
13" and 15" Pro models. If sales of those models plummet in favour of
the 13" Air and retina 15" Pro, Apple will have the perfect excuse to
elminate the old body style.

The 13" Pro is the most popular model at present, but the improvements
in today's 13" Air are likely to cut significantly into its sales.
Particularly the addition of USB 3.0, which gives faster external
storage without having to resort to expensive Thunderbolt storage.

The introduction of a reasonably priced Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet
adapter and promise of a Firewire one gives two fewer reasons to require
a 13" Pro, but having those ports built in is more convenient for those
who need them. An Air only has one Thunderbolt port so can't plug in
both adapters at once (unless the Firewire one includes a daisy-chain
Thunderbolt port), but there is still the option of the USB to 100Base-T
Ethernet adapter if Ethernet speed is not critical.

Interesting point I've just noted: the Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet
adapter only lists the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro with Retina Display
as compatible models. Can't use this to add a second Gigabit Ethernet
port to 2011 models in other series.

> I'm a bit surprised that the 13" MacBook Pro is reportedly using a faster
> CPU than the 15" MacBook Pro (unless that's a reporters typo).

13" models are dual-core (and the cheaper one is a Core i5), 15" models
are quad-core (all Core i7), and have bigger L3 caches.

The processors operate at the stated speed with all cores active. If
fewer cores are required, some can be powered down, allowing the
remaining ones to operate faster (e.g. the 2.6 GHz quad core can get up
to 3.6 GHz with a single core active, same for the 2.9 GHz dual core).
This is Intel's "Turbo Boost" feature.

For applications which are not able to be multi-threaded, the 13" models
may work out slightly faster than the 15" models (assuming the OS is
doing little else at the same time), but on average the extra cores in
the 15" models will outweigh the higher clock speed of the 13", and
Turbo Boost is likely to eliminate the remaining advantage.

> Mind you, releasing all this updated hardware at the Developers Confernece
> is a surprise (the phrase "under new management" springs to mind).
>
> No new iMacs though

I expect they will be updated along with the Mac Mini in a few weeks,
with architectural improvements along the lines of what happened with
the 13" and 15" (non-retina) MacBook Pro, no external changes. There are
likely to be supply constraints for new processors and Apple wants to
maximise sales of their most popular models (notebooks).

Given the timing, I would expect to see the new iMac and Mac Mini turn
up with the introduction of Mountain Lion, and to officially require it.

> and the whiners will continue on about the Mac Pro not really being updated.

The minor Mac Pro update is puzzling, as anyone waiting for a new model
isn't likely to buy this. The minor specifications bump would be a waste
of time if Apple had a more significant update waiting for release in
the next few weeks. Perhaps the Mac Pro will get a major update at the
same time as the iMac and Mac Mini (i.e. all desktop models together).

At least the Mac Pro is still being sold, meaning Apple isn't planning
on discontinuing it in the near future.

The 17" MacBook Pro has disappeared completely from store, which
probably means it is gone for good (apart from refurbished old models).

I'm pleased to see that the minor update to the Mac Pro was sufficient
to trigger an international price recalculation: the New Zealand price
on the entry level model dropped by NZ$500.

--
David Empson

David Empson:
> The 17" MacBook Pro has disappeared completely from store, which
> probably means it is gone for good (apart from refurbished old models).

Not the greatest disaster ever, I suppose, but I buy 17" MBP's because
I like having the extra space to run graphics apps such as Final Cut
Pro, Photoshop, Aperture, and astronomy apps. In astrophotography I run
a sky-chart program (TheSkyX Pro) for telescope mount control, a CCD
camera control program, a guide-camera program, and a robotic focuser
control program simultaneously. I don't have to see them all at once,
but I usually keep two showing on the display at once. I've got two
fairly recent model 17" MBP's and an older MBP 15 (all qualified for
Mountain Lion). I think I'll hang on to them for as long as they don't
die and don't start to feel sluggish under the demands of more powerful
versions of graphics apps that will inevitably come along.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

In article
<HelpfulHarry->,
(Helpful Harry) wrote:
>
> I'm a bit surprised that the 13" MacBook Pro is reportedly using a faster
> CPU than the 15" MacBook Pro (unless that's a reporters typo).

It was misreported - I got a follow-up email apologising for the mistake
and the corrected details.

Helpful Harry )

In article <1klkljd.1pq73qx1po8kdzN%>,
(David Empson) wrote:

> Helpful Harry <> wrote:
>
> > In article <6165d998-f911-4ed5-bfef->,
> > wrote:
> >
> > > "The very best computer that we've ever built."
> >
> > Until the next update anyway.
> >
> > The new 15" Retina MacBook Pro is basically a replacement for the 17"
> > MacBook Pro, i.e. expensive. The Retina display will filter down to the
> > other MacBook Pro and MacBook Air models at some stage (likely the next
> > update).
>
> Retina display has significantly higher power consumption, so needs a
> bigger battery to compensate, unless Apple was willing to sacrifice
> battery operating time.
>
> The 11" Air, 13" Air, 13" Pro and old 15" Pro bodies don't have enough
> room for a bigger battery, so can't have retina display.

They can fit a retina display in an iPad, they can fit one into a MacBook,
but you're probably right about the battery life.




> > I'm a bit surprised that the 13" MacBook Pro is reportedly using a faster
> > CPU than the 15" MacBook Pro (unless that's a reporters typo).
>
> 13" models are dual-core (and the cheaper one is a Core i5), 15" models
> are quad-core (all Core i7), and have bigger L3 caches.

It was a typo in the email I received which they later corrected.




> > Mind you, releasing all this updated hardware at the Developers Confernece
> > is a surprise (the phrase "under new management" springs to mind).
> >
> > No new iMacs though
>
> I expect they will be updated along with the Mac Mini in a few weeks,
> with architectural improvements along the lines of what happened with
> the 13" and 15" (non-retina) MacBook Pro, no external changes. There are
> likely to be supply constraints for new processors and Apple wants to
> maximise sales of their most popular models (notebooks).
>
> Given the timing, I would expect to see the new iMac and Mac Mini turn
> up with the introduction of Mountain Lion, and to officially require it.
>
>
> > and the whiners will continue on about the Mac Pro not really being updated.
>
> The minor Mac Pro update is puzzling, as anyone waiting for a new model
> isn't likely to buy this. The minor specifications bump would be a waste
> of time if Apple had a more significant update waiting for release in
> the next few weeks. Perhaps the Mac Pro will get a major update at the
> same time as the iMac and Mac Mini (i.e. all desktop models together).
>
> At least the Mac Pro is still being sold, meaning Apple isn't planning
> on discontinuing it in the near future.

The latest rumour is for new designs of iMac and Mac Pro in 2013, but that
doesn't discount a "speed bump" update in the near future.

Helpful Harry )

Helpful Harry <> wrote:

> In article <1klkljd.1pq73qx1po8kdzN%>,
> (David Empson) wrote:
>
> > Helpful Harry <> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <6165d998-f911-4ed5-bfef->,
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "The very best computer that we've ever built."
> > >
> > > Until the next update anyway.
> > >
> > > The new 15" Retina MacBook Pro is basically a replacement for the 17"
> > > MacBook Pro, i.e. expensive. The Retina display will filter down to the
> > > other MacBook Pro and MacBook Air models at some stage (likely the next
> > > update).
> >
> > Retina display has significantly higher power consumption, so needs a
> > bigger battery to compensate, unless Apple was willing to sacrifice
> > battery operating time.
> >
> > The 11" Air, 13" Air, 13" Pro and old 15" Pro bodies don't have enough
> > room for a bigger battery, so can't have retina display.
>
> They can fit a retina display in an iPad, they can fit one into a MacBook,
> but you're probably right about the battery life.

The battery got 70% bigger in the iPad 3, mainly because of the Retina
Display. The iPad had scope to shrink components because of its minimal
external connectors and other physical objects (like optical drives)
which had a certain minimum size.

The MacBook Air could probably get a retina display if it got a little
thicker, but Apple would lose bragging rights, and the increased cost is
likely to be an issue at present.

> > > Mind you, releasing all this updated hardware at the Developers Confernece
> > > is a surprise (the phrase "under new management" springs to mind).
> > >
> > > No new iMacs though
> >
> > I expect they will be updated along with the Mac Mini in a few weeks,
> > with architectural improvements along the lines of what happened with
> > the 13" and 15" (non-retina) MacBook Pro, no external changes. There are
> > likely to be supply constraints for new processors and Apple wants to
> > maximise sales of their most popular models (notebooks).
> >
> > Given the timing, I would expect to see the new iMac and Mac Mini turn
> > up with the introduction of Mountain Lion, and to officially require it.
> >
> >
> > > and the whiners will continue on about the Mac Pro not really being
> > > updated.
> >
> > The minor Mac Pro update is puzzling, as anyone waiting for a new model
> > isn't likely to buy this. The minor specifications bump would be a waste
> > of time if Apple had a more significant update waiting for release in
> > the next few weeks. Perhaps the Mac Pro will get a major update at the
> > same time as the iMac and Mac Mini (i.e. all desktop models together).
> >
> > At least the Mac Pro is still being sold, meaning Apple isn't planning
> > on discontinuing it in the near future.
>
> The latest rumour is for new designs of iMac and Mac Pro in 2013, but that
> doesn't discount a "speed bump" update in the near future.

I saw that (quote from David Pogue). I'm inclined to think that "new
designs" means "new external designs", and a 2013 major redesign makes
sense.

I still think an internal component upgrade for the iMac and Mac Mini is
very likely in the near future (Ivy Bridge processors, USB 3.0, storage,
GPU updated for the iMac) but no change to external connector
placements.

Given that rumour, the Mac Pro may not see a decent upgrade until the
Ivy Bridge Xeon processors are released next year. That would fit better
with a minor speed/memory bump upgrade now.

The worry is if Apple were to use the evidence of lack of Mac Pro
purchases as an excuse to discontinue it, when most people are waiting
for a decent upgrade before buying. I'd suggest people in that situation
send feedback to Apple so they are aware that the demand is out there,
if Apple would just release a decent upgrade.

It would be nice if Apple could relax their policy somewhat on future
product plans, so that Mac Pro users can at least have some idea of what
to expect in the medium term.

--
David Empson

On 6/11/12 5:20 PM, Helpful Harry wrote:
> In article<6165d998-f911-4ed5-bfef->,
> The new 15" Retina MacBook Pro is basically a replacement for the 17"
> MacBook Pro, i.e. expensive.

I agree with half of that. It's expensive.

But, sadly, it's not a replacement for a 17" MBP, and now it looks like
I can't get one any more. I was waiting for the new line, hoping for
significant improvement so I could replace my aging 17" MBP. Although
the new 15" has the pixel count (and more) it lacks the physical size.

More important than that (to me) is its lack of an optical drive and
FireWire port. Right now, I can't even find external devices or adapters
to replace those missing features. They are crucial to me because I use
both regularly. I still receive a lot of bits on DVDs, and occasionally
need to burn one. And I have a significant investment in FireWire disk
drives. I wish Apple had provided for an easier transition to the new
technology.

Personally, I'd rather have the super drive and FireWire port, even if
they made the MBP a little less thin. After all, once I stash the
necessary FireWire adapter and the external DVD drive (if I can find
them!) into a bag, the new model is not so thin and light any more.

There's a lot to like about the new MBP design, but so far I haven't
found a way to work around the missing features. I'm open to suggestions.

/Ed

Helpful Harry:
> > The new 15" Retina MacBook Pro is basically a replacement for the 17"
> > MacBook Pro, i.e. expensive.

Ed Anson:
> I agree with half of that. It's expensive.
>
> But, sadly, it's not a replacement for a 17" MBP, and now it looks like
> I can't get one any more. I was waiting for the new line, hoping for
> significant improvement so I could replace my aging 17" MBP. Although
> the new 15" has the pixel count (and more) it lacks the physical size.
>
> More important than that (to me) is its lack of an optical drive and
> FireWire port. Right now, I can't even find external devices or adapters
> to replace those missing features. They are crucial to me because I use
> both regularly. I still receive a lot of bits on DVDs, and occasionally
> need to burn one. And I have a significant investment in FireWire disk
> drives. I wish Apple had provided for an easier transition to the new
> technology.
>
> Personally, I'd rather have the super drive and FireWire port, even if
> they made the MBP a little less thin. After all, once I stash the
> necessary FireWire adapter and the external DVD drive (if I can find
> them!) into a bag, the new model is not so thin and light any more.
>
> There's a lot to like about the new MBP design, but so far I haven't
> found a way to work around the missing features. I'm open to suggestions.

Bingo. Is it not so that there will be a Thunderbolt to FireWire
adapter? Still, it's not the same as having a FireWire port. I
absolutely cannot figure out why Apple is so stingy with ports.

Luckily for me, I've got two fairly recent MBP 17's. I'm going to start
treating them better so they will last longer!

I look at a Dell--a bit thicker than my 17" MB Pro's, to be sure, and
it's got half a dozen USB 3 ports, two FW 800 ports, interchangeable
batteries, and I don't know what all. Ugly as hell, but functional.
There ought to be a middle ground. It seems to me that Apple's
legendary designers are ignoring the most important design rule of
all--form follows function.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm