OT: Importance of UPS ?

OK, yes, I should know this, but I don't, so here goes...

I have my desktop PC and all peripherals hooked up to 2 outlets. From
those two outlets I have APC surge protectors. Some APC surge
protectors are connected to others.

I don't know if the above is a problem, but I have a lot of
peripherals.

Here's my question: What is a UPS for, and what are the dangers of
not having a UPS, and how many UPS's would I need (configuration
below), and how likely is it that not having a UPS would result in a
problem?

Here is what is connected to those two outlets with APC surge
protectors (some chained):

- Desktop PC (XPS 410)

- 7 external Seagate hard drives, 2 Iomega, and 1 Maxtor

- Canon wireless photo printer

- HP laser printer

- 3 monitors

- 1 scanner

- Various other things like Palm PDAs, digita cameras

So, I am interested in knowing what my "blind spot" is and what to do
about it. If I should get a UPS, which one would you recommend, and
how many would I need?

Thank you.

Depends how many watts your equipment needs.

It's best to have everything powered from a single circuit in the house,
so that everything rides up over the same voltage fluctuation (no
differences between connected peripherals) when lightning hits
something in the neighborhood. Ie. everything ought to turn off
if you throw a single breaker in the basement. Otherwise they might
be on opposite phases of your house AC service, which could get out
of line unpleasantly.

The UPS protects your data should a write to a some HD etc be in
progress when the power goes out ; in addition it protects settings
that may be cached somewhere that need to be written to the HD before
the system shuts down.

Before journaling file systems, every power hit would lose some files.
Journaling cut down the losses a lot, but why screw it up.

But a laptop has its own UPS, in effect, and perhaps it immune to
such damage. My own is on a UPS along with the desktop, with enough
capacity to run the desktop for a couple hours ; that avoids shutting
it down when the power might come back in a few minutes.

My UPS is a Cyberpower 1250AVR, on its second set of batteries, many
years old. I also have another powering the radio receiver setup
I have across the room. I'd get the biggest capacity one you can find
that doesn't jack the price way up, which happens rather suddenly
for some reason at some capacity around there.

The AVR means it adjusts the voltage to the right one during brownouts,
without using the battery.

Not hooked up, but present, is the software they supply to shut down
the system when the battery gets low ; it wouldn't work on my win95
desktop anyway.

--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

"Ron Hardin" <> wrote in message
news:...
> It's best to have everything powered from a single circuit in the house,
> so that everything rides up over the same voltage fluctuation (no
> differences between connected peripherals) when lightning hits
> something in the neighborhood. Ie. everything ought to turn off
> if you throw a single breaker in the basement. Otherwise they might
> be on opposite phases of your house AC service, which could get out
> of line unpleasantly.
>
> The UPS protects your data should a write to a some HD etc be in
> progress when the power goes out ; in addition it protects settings
> that may be cached somewhere that need to be written to the HD before
> the system shuts down.
>
> Before journaling file systems, every power hit would lose some files.
> Journaling cut down the losses a lot, but why screw it up.
>
> But a laptop has its own UPS, in effect, and perhaps it immune to
> such damage. My own is on a UPS along with the desktop, with enough
> capacity to run the desktop for a couple hours ; that avoids shutting
> it down when the power might come back in a few minutes.
>
> My UPS is a Cyberpower 1250AVR, on its second set of batteries, many
> years old. I also have another powering the radio receiver setup
> I have across the room. I'd get the biggest capacity one you can find
> that doesn't jack the price way up, which happens rather suddenly
> for some reason at some capacity around there.
>
> The AVR means it adjusts the voltage to the right one during brownouts,
> without using the battery.
>
> Not hooked up, but present, is the software they supply to shut down
> the system when the battery gets low ; it wouldn't work on my win95
> desktop anyway.
>
> --
> Ron Hardin
>
>
> On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.



w_tom sighting shortly to come........

On Sun, 20 May 2007 02:40:34 -0500, Journey <> wrote:

>OK, yes, I should know this, but I don't, so here goes...
>
>I have my desktop PC and all peripherals hooked up to 2 outlets. From
>those two outlets I have APC surge protectors. Some APC surge
>protectors are connected to others.
>
>I don't know if the above is a problem, but I have a lot of
>peripherals.
>
>Here's my question: What is a UPS for, and what are the dangers of
>not having a UPS, and how many UPS's would I need (configuration
>below), and how likely is it that not having a UPS would result in a
>problem?
>

Essentially it provides minutes of uninterrupted power to your pc,
etc. when the electric goes down. Here's a link to read up which
might explain it better than myself....

http://www.jetcafe.org/~npc/doc/ups-faq.html#0204
(you might have to scroll up or down when you here)

On Sun, 20 May 2007 09:53:22 -0500, RnR <> wrote:

>On Sun, 20 May 2007 02:40:34 -0500, Journey <> wrote:
>
>>OK, yes, I should know this, but I don't, so here goes...
>>
>>I have my desktop PC and all peripherals hooked up to 2 outlets. From
>>those two outlets I have APC surge protectors. Some APC surge
>>protectors are connected to others.
>>
>>I don't know if the above is a problem, but I have a lot of
>>peripherals.
>>
>>Here's my question: What is a UPS for, and what are the dangers of
>>not having a UPS, and how many UPS's would I need (configuration
>>below), and how likely is it that not having a UPS would result in a
>>problem?
>>
>
>Essentially it provides minutes of uninterrupted power to your pc,
>etc. when the electric goes down. Here's a link to read up which
>might explain it better than myself....
>
>http://www.jetcafe.org/~npc/doc/ups-faq.html#0204
>(you might have to scroll up or down when you here)

correction: (you might have to scroll up or down when you enter here)

Sorry bout that <g>.

Most consumer UPS' have two types of outlets (multiple actual outlets of
each type), some are "battery backed up", some are "surge protected only
(no battery backup)".

You should only get 1 UPS, it has to be large enough to power the items
plugged into it (actually, only it's "battery backed up" outlets).

The laser printer should NOT (MUST NOT) be plugged into a battery backed
up outlet of the UPS .... it draws too much power. WAY too much power.

Power strips can be plugged into the UPS if they are JUST "power
strips", but surge protectors MUST NOT be plugged into the UPS. The UPS
has it's own surge protection.

You don't say if the monitors are CRT or LCD; it makes a big difference
(LCD monitors draw a LOT less than CRT monitors).

With a UPS, bigger is better, but also more expensive. You could
probably get by with a UPS in the 700 to 900VA range.


Journey wrote:
> OK, yes, I should know this, but I don't, so here goes...
>
> I have my desktop PC and all peripherals hooked up to 2 outlets. From
> those two outlets I have APC surge protectors. Some APC surge
> protectors are connected to others.
>
> I don't know if the above is a problem, but I have a lot of
> peripherals.
>
> Here's my question: What is a UPS for, and what are the dangers of
> not having a UPS, and how many UPS's would I need (configuration
> below), and how likely is it that not having a UPS would result in a
> problem?
>
> Here is what is connected to those two outlets with APC surge
> protectors (some chained):
>
> - Desktop PC (XPS 410)
>
> - 7 external Seagate hard drives, 2 Iomega, and 1 Maxtor
>
> - Canon wireless photo printer
>
> - HP laser printer
>
> - 3 monitors
>
> - 1 scanner
>
> - Various other things like Palm PDAs, digita cameras
>
> So, I am interested in knowing what my "blind spot" is and what to do
> about it. If I should get a UPS, which one would you recommend, and
> how many would I need?
>
> Thank you.

Journey wrote:

> So, I am interested in knowing what my "blind spot" is and what to do
> about it. If I should get a UPS, which one would you recommend, and
> how many would I need?

Hi Journey

You don't say what you hope to achieve with the UPS.

If you want to be able to continue using EVERYTHING during a power
outage, you're going to need a very very large UPS - something along the
lines of ~3000VA+ which will be quite expensive. Even then you'll have
quite limited runtime.

If you're just wanting to ensure your data is safe and you have time to
get things switched off, get a UPS with some battery backed sockets and
some surge only.

Plug the PC and Hard Drives in to the battery backed side - as they need
time to be properly shutdown in the event of power failure. The rest all
should survive the power just going out, so can just be surge protected.

Install the software that comes with the UPS and connect the USB or
serial cable up. This will automatically shut your PC down in the event
of the power going off, or at least when the battery in the UPS has a
configurable amount of runtime left.

Personally I have two el-cheapo battery backed UPS units. One runs my
Dell PowerEdge server in the attic and the other runs a Buffalo
TerraStation. Both use a serial cable to signal power outage, both are
about 650VA and cost less than £30 each.

They're about a year old now and have been fine.

If you're interested in having some legal recourse if your UPS fails to
perform, Trust and APC both offer consequential loss clauses if a
failure of their UPS due to mains surge (but not lightening etc) causes
your equipment damage.

Cheers

Alex

On Sun, 20 May 2007 18:55:58 +0100, Alex Harrington
<> wrote:

>Journey wrote:
>
>> So, I am interested in knowing what my "blind spot" is and what to do
>> about it. If I should get a UPS, which one would you recommend, and
>> how many would I need?
>
>Hi Journey
>
>You don't say what you hope to achieve with the UPS.
>
>If you want to be able to continue using EVERYTHING during a power
>outage, you're going to need a very very large UPS - something along the
>lines of ~3000VA+ which will be quite expensive. Even then you'll have
>quite limited runtime.
>
>If you're just wanting to ensure your data is safe and you have time to
>get things switched off, get a UPS with some battery backed sockets and
>some surge only.
>
>Plug the PC and Hard Drives in to the battery backed side - as they need
>time to be properly shutdown in the event of power failure. The rest all
>should survive the power just going out, so can just be surge protected.
>
>Install the software that comes with the UPS and connect the USB or
>serial cable up. This will automatically shut your PC down in the event
>of the power going off, or at least when the battery in the UPS has a
>configurable amount of runtime left.
>
>Personally I have two el-cheapo battery backed UPS units. One runs my
>Dell PowerEdge server in the attic and the other runs a Buffalo
>TerraStation. Both use a serial cable to signal power outage, both are
>about 650VA and cost less than £30 each.
>
>They're about a year old now and have been fine.
>
>If you're interested in having some legal recourse if your UPS fails to
>perform, Trust and APC both offer consequential loss clauses if a
>failure of their UPS due to mains surge (but not lightening etc) causes
>your equipment damage.
>
>Cheers
>
>Alex


I doubt Journey needs that large but as you pointed out, it depends
what has to run when the power goes out. I tend to agree with Barry
with size or slightly larger. Aside from the power requirements, the
number of outlets required (powered/surge protected) should also be a
consideration. Also perhaps before he buys any UPS, he should make
sure he can find replacement batteries and get an idea how much they
will cost. My understanding from reading other posts, batteries
typically last about 4 to 5 years (estimated). Last, Journey should
do some independent reading (that's how I learned) about UPS's. Also
if he is lucky occasionally they are priced on sale. I think over the
years they have gotten cheaper tho.

RnR wrote:

<snip>

> I doubt Journey needs that large but as you pointed out, it depends
> what has to run when the power goes out. I tend to agree with Barry
> with size or slightly larger. Aside from the power requirements, the
> number of outlets required (powered/surge protected) should also be a
> consideration. Also perhaps before he buys any UPS, he should make
> sure he can find replacement batteries and get an idea how much they
> will cost. My understanding from reading other posts, batteries
> typically last about 4 to 5 years (estimated). Last, Journey should
> do some independent reading (that's how I learned) about UPS's. Also
> if he is lucky occasionally they are priced on sale. I think over the
> years they have gotten cheaper tho.

In reading specs, recently, I discovered that some of the less expensive,
lower capacity UPSs put out *WAY* more heat and noise than the larger,
higher capacity models.

Depending on you requirements, it's something to consider.

--
Notan