OT: SCSI Expert Needed

Ok, being an "expert" is relative (an expert is anyone who knows more
than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I need some
help from an expert's expert.

I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
PCI-Express slots.

The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin SCSI-II
interface (HD50F socket).

First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.

Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how do I
connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?

Thanks

On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:08:02 -0400, Barry Watzman <>
wrote:

>Ok, being an "expert" is relative (an expert is anyone who knows more
>than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I need some
>help from an expert's expert.
>
>I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
>PCI-Express slots.
>
>The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
>external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin SCSI-II
>interface (HD50F socket).
>
>First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
>The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.
>
>Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how do I
>connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?
>
>Thanks

"Inexpensive" and "SCSI" hardly ever get together ;-)

I found the Adaptec 29320LPE Single Channel Ultra 320 SCSI Controller
available for just under $150US. Check Nextag.

You can certainly attach an 8-bit scsi device to a 16b wide channel, you just
need the right cable. I have a venerable 8bit async HP 4C scanner with the
even more ancient Centronics connector cabled to a 68 pin external connector
on a PCI 29320. It just takes the right cable...

Cheers

daytripper wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:08:02 -0400, Barry Watzman <>
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, being an "expert" is relative (an expert is anyone who knows more
>> than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I need some
>> help from an expert's expert.
>>
>> I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
>> PCI-Express slots.
>>
>> The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
>> external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin SCSI-II
>> interface (HD50F socket).
>>
>> First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
>> The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.
>>
>> Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how do I
>> connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?
>>
>> Thanks
>
> "Inexpensive" and "SCSI" hardly ever get together ;-)
>
> I found the Adaptec 29320LPE Single Channel Ultra 320 SCSI Controller
> available for just under $150US. Check Nextag.
>
> You can certainly attach an 8-bit scsi device to a 16b wide channel, you just
> need the right cable. I have a venerable 8bit async HP 4C scanner with the
> even more ancient Centronics connector cabled to a 68 pin external connector
> on a PCI 29320. It just takes the right cable...
>
> Cheers
>

There is an HD68 to HD50 here, for going from wide to narrow. I have
one in my collection which is similar to this. Your Nikon could be
Single Ended (SE) and Async (up to 6MBsec, transfer rate varies with total
cable length due to async acknowledgement).

http://www.computercablestore.com/SC...8__PID906.aspx

There are a few pictures here, to help in identifying
the connector. In one case, I had to remove the securing elements
on my adapter, to connect to a device, as they were not mechanically
compatible.

http://support.doit.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3116

http://dirac.org/linux/misc/scsi/

I've only fiddled with a half dozen SCSI setups, so this
wasn't my "day job". It is a pretty expensive technology to
hook up, in terms of the prices charged for cables and
adapters.

I did see mention of something ideal for the job, but
apparently it isn't manufactured any more.

http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-scsi-adapter-adaptec.htm

This is the replacement. USB2 is capable of 30MB/sec,
so should be able to handle 3-6MB/sec no problem.

"Ratoc USB 2.0 to Ultra SCSI Converter"
http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-to-scsi-adapter-u2scx.htm

The MSRP is $99. That seems to be about the best price
I can find. I'd prefer to see some reviews, to understand
how well it works.

http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/U2SCX.html

Compatibility table.

http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/...cxlistwin.html

There aren't enough reviews here, to reach a conclusion.

http://www.amazon.com/USB2-0-Ultra-S...5144254&sr=8-2

Paul

"Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message news:haompp$8d7$...
> Ok, being an "expert" is relative (an expert is anyone who knows more
> than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I need some
> help from an expert's expert.
>
> I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
> PCI-Express slots.
>
> The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
> external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin SCSI-II
> interface (HD50F socket).
>
> First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
> The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.
>
> Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how do I
> connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?
>
> Thanks

You're looking at a major headache. A scsi bus must be properly
terminated, which isn't going to happen unless you pick exactly the
right converter and/or cable to go from 68 to 50 pin. Also, Nikon's
drivers are picky about the scsi cards that will work with their
scanners, and they don't support scsi to usb converters.

Rather than dump $150-200 (and probably more, once you get
through with the cabling) on a controller, just to run that scanner,
why not buy or assemble a second, older (i.e. cheap) PCI-based
system for it? It'll wind up costing a lot less and also be far more
reliable. You can even create a barebones LAN to transfer the
scanned files by using a cheap network card and crossover
Ethernet cable.

Have a look on ebay for both. Select worldwide and shops.
I usually purchase on ebay and I never had any problem enven with cheap
items
Please note that this is a general response. I didn't check for your
specific request.
Regards


"Barry Watzman" <> a écrit dans le message de news:
haompp$8d7$...
> Ok, being an "expert" is relative (an expert is anyone who knows more
> than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I need some
> help from an expert's expert.
>
> I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
> PCI-Express slots.
>
> The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
> external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin SCSI-II
> interface (HD50F socket).
>
> First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
> The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.
>
> Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how do I
> connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?
>
> Thanks

Thanks.

The only known "SCSI-to-{whatever}" adapters that work with these Nikon
film scanners are the Ratoc adapters. Both USB and Firewire adapters
work, but there is a problem: They only work if you are using Hamrick
VueScan scanning software, they do not work with Nikon Scan, which talks
directly to the SCSI ports, apparently, and won't work with any adapter.
I do not know if the Adaptec USB2xchange works or not. I have all 3
adapters (both Ratoc models and the Adaptec model), but I want to stay
with Nikon Scan, hence I need a "real" SCSI port and not an adapter.

[Aside from actual scanning, I service these scanners (often and on a
moderately large scale] and need to do firmware updating, which, also,
doesn't work through SCSI to {whatever} adapters.]

So I need an INEXPENSIVE PCI Express SCSI port. [Inexpensive: I buy
Adaptec 2940 series PCI SCSI cards for $5-$10, sometimes used working
pulls but just about as often new old stock in sealed box.] Which
presents two problems, first, as far as I can find, the least expensive
PCI Express SCSI card is $150-$200 and, second, as far as I can find,
ALL of the PCI Express SCSI cards have a wide, 68-pin interface and the
scanner has a SCSI-II, HD50 "narrow" interface.

My real question was whether an adapter cable, or an adapter "dongle"
(68 pin plug on one side, 50 pin socket on the other side) would work.
Your response, and the other response, seem to suggest that it will.

That leaves me encouraged but, until I actually try it, skeptical.

:-)


Paul wrote:
> daytripper wrote:
>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:08:02 -0400, Barry Watzman
>> <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, being an "expert" is relative (an expert is anyone who knows more
>>> than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I need some
>>> help from an expert's expert.
>>>
>>> I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
>>> PCI-Express slots.
>>>
>>> The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
>>> external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin
>>> SCSI-II interface (HD50F socket).
>>>
>>> First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
>>> The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.
>>>
>>> Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how do
>>> I connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>> "Inexpensive" and "SCSI" hardly ever get together ;-)
>>
>> I found the Adaptec 29320LPE Single Channel Ultra 320 SCSI Controller
>> available for just under $150US. Check Nextag.
>>
>> You can certainly attach an 8-bit scsi device to a 16b wide channel,
>> you just
>> need the right cable. I have a venerable 8bit async HP 4C scanner with
>> the
>> even more ancient Centronics connector cabled to a 68 pin external
>> connector
>> on a PCI 29320. It just takes the right cable...
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>
> There is an HD68 to HD50 here, for going from wide to narrow. I have
> one in my collection which is similar to this. Your Nikon could be
> Single Ended (SE) and Async (up to 6MBsec, transfer rate varies with total
> cable length due to async acknowledgement).
>
> http://www.computercablestore.com/SC...8__PID906.aspx
>
> There are a few pictures here, to help in identifying
> the connector. In one case, I had to remove the securing elements
> on my adapter, to connect to a device, as they were not mechanically
> compatible.
>
> http://support.doit.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3116
>
> http://dirac.org/linux/misc/scsi/
>
> I've only fiddled with a half dozen SCSI setups, so this
> wasn't my "day job". It is a pretty expensive technology to
> hook up, in terms of the prices charged for cables and
> adapters.
>
> I did see mention of something ideal for the job, but
> apparently it isn't manufactured any more.
>
> http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-scsi-adapter-adaptec.htm
>
> This is the replacement. USB2 is capable of 30MB/sec,
> so should be able to handle 3-6MB/sec no problem.
>
> "Ratoc USB 2.0 to Ultra SCSI Converter"
> http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-to-scsi-adapter-u2scx.htm
>
> The MSRP is $99. That seems to be about the best price
> I can find. I'd prefer to see some reviews, to understand
> how well it works.
>
> http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/U2SCX.html
>
> Compatibility table.
>
> http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/...cxlistwin.html
>
> There aren't enough reviews here, to reach a conclusion.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/USB2-0-Ultra-S...5144254&sr=8-2
>
>
> Paul

I used to use many 2940 adapters. To connect 50-pin SCSI devices to the
68 conductor cable I used Meritec 980211-1F1-3F0 adapters. The 50-pin
device cannot terminate the cable. I used a separate 68-pin active
terminator for that.

http://meritec.thomasnet.com/item/co...1-3f0?&seo=110

Hope this helps, but I may have misunderstood your requirements.

Don


Barry Watzman wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> The only known "SCSI-to-{whatever}" adapters that work with these Nikon
> film scanners are the Ratoc adapters. Both USB and Firewire adapters
> work, but there is a problem: They only work if you are using Hamrick
> VueScan scanning software, they do not work with Nikon Scan, which talks
> directly to the SCSI ports, apparently, and won't work with any adapter.
> I do not know if the Adaptec USB2xchange works or not. I have all 3
> adapters (both Ratoc models and the Adaptec model), but I want to stay
> with Nikon Scan, hence I need a "real" SCSI port and not an adapter.
>
> [Aside from actual scanning, I service these scanners (often and on a
> moderately large scale] and need to do firmware updating, which, also,
> doesn't work through SCSI to {whatever} adapters.]
>
> So I need an INEXPENSIVE PCI Express SCSI port. [Inexpensive: I buy
> Adaptec 2940 series PCI SCSI cards for $5-$10, sometimes used working
> pulls but just about as often new old stock in sealed box.] Which
> presents two problems, first, as far as I can find, the least expensive
> PCI Express SCSI card is $150-$200 and, second, as far as I can find,
> ALL of the PCI Express SCSI cards have a wide, 68-pin interface and the
> scanner has a SCSI-II, HD50 "narrow" interface.
>
> My real question was whether an adapter cable, or an adapter "dongle"
> (68 pin plug on one side, 50 pin socket on the other side) would work.
> Your response, and the other response, seem to suggest that it will.
>
> That leaves me encouraged but, until I actually try it, skeptical.
>
> :-)
>
>
> Paul wrote:
>> daytripper wrote:
>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:08:02 -0400, Barry Watzman
>>> <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, being an "expert" is relative (an expert is anyone who knows
>>>> more than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I
>>>> need some help from an expert's expert.
>>>>
>>>> I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
>>>> PCI-Express slots.
>>>>
>>>> The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
>>>> external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin
>>>> SCSI-II interface (HD50F socket).
>>>>
>>>> First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
>>>> The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.
>>>>
>>>> Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how
>>>> do I connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> "Inexpensive" and "SCSI" hardly ever get together ;-)
>>>
>>> I found the Adaptec 29320LPE Single Channel Ultra 320 SCSI Controller
>>> available for just under $150US. Check Nextag.
>>>
>>> You can certainly attach an 8-bit scsi device to a 16b wide channel,
>>> you just
>>> need the right cable. I have a venerable 8bit async HP 4C scanner
>>> with the
>>> even more ancient Centronics connector cabled to a 68 pin external
>>> connector
>>> on a PCI 29320. It just takes the right cable...
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>
>> There is an HD68 to HD50 here, for going from wide to narrow. I have
>> one in my collection which is similar to this. Your Nikon could be
>> Single Ended (SE) and Async (up to 6MBsec, transfer rate varies with
>> total
>> cable length due to async acknowledgement).
>>
>> http://www.computercablestore.com/SC...8__PID906.aspx
>>
>> There are a few pictures here, to help in identifying
>> the connector. In one case, I had to remove the securing elements
>> on my adapter, to connect to a device, as they were not mechanically
>> compatible.
>>
>> http://support.doit.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3116
>>
>> http://dirac.org/linux/misc/scsi/
>>
>> I've only fiddled with a half dozen SCSI setups, so this
>> wasn't my "day job". It is a pretty expensive technology to
>> hook up, in terms of the prices charged for cables and
>> adapters.
>>
>> I did see mention of something ideal for the job, but
>> apparently it isn't manufactured any more.
>>
>> http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-scsi-adapter-adaptec.htm
>>
>> This is the replacement. USB2 is capable of 30MB/sec,
>> so should be able to handle 3-6MB/sec no problem.
>>
>> "Ratoc USB 2.0 to Ultra SCSI Converter"
>> http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-to-scsi-adapter-u2scx.htm
>>
>> The MSRP is $99. That seems to be about the best price
>> I can find. I'd prefer to see some reviews, to understand
>> how well it works.
>>
>> http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/U2SCX.html
>>
>> Compatibility table.
>>
>> http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/...cxlistwin.html
>>
>> There aren't enough reviews here, to reach a conclusion.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/USB2-0-Ultra-S...5144254&sr=8-2
>>
>>
>> Paul

In article <haqb7o$iug$>, Barry Watzman <> wrote:
>Thanks.
>
>The only known "SCSI-to-{whatever}" adapters that work with these Nikon
>film scanners are the Ratoc adapters. Both USB and Firewire adapters
>work, but there is a problem: They only work if you are using Hamrick
>VueScan scanning software, they do not work with Nikon Scan, which talks
>directly to the SCSI ports, apparently, and won't work with any adapter.
> I do not know if the Adaptec USB2xchange works or not. I have all 3
>adapters (both Ratoc models and the Adaptec model), but I want to stay
>with Nikon Scan, hence I need a "real" SCSI port and not an adapter.
>
>[Aside from actual scanning, I service these scanners (often and on a
>moderately large scale] and need to do firmware updating, which, also,
>doesn't work through SCSI to {whatever} adapters.]
>
>So I need an INEXPENSIVE PCI Express SCSI port. [Inexpensive: I buy
>Adaptec 2940 series PCI SCSI cards for $5-$10, sometimes used working
>pulls but just about as often new old stock in sealed box.] Which
>presents two problems, first, as far as I can find, the least expensive
>PCI Express SCSI card is $150-$200 and, second, as far as I can find,
>ALL of the PCI Express SCSI cards have a wide, 68-pin interface and the
>scanner has a SCSI-II, HD50 "narrow" interface.
>
>My real question was whether an adapter cable, or an adapter "dongle"
>(68 pin plug on one side, 50 pin socket on the other side) would work.
>Your response, and the other response, seem to suggest that it will.
>
>That leaves me encouraged but, until I actually try it, skeptical.
>
>:-)
>
>

My advice, if you are basically using the scsi card and pc for updating and
servicing these scanners, is to build up a slower second hand PC that has PCI
slots and then use one of the low cost 2940's you have to do your firmware
updates and testing. Keep your main PC for yourself. You can find used 2.4Ghz
pc's at places like salvation army stores or other trhift stores like theirs.

Or get one from your local university surplus center.

This is one at the University of Utah, look for a similar one at your
location.

http://fbs.admin.utah.edu/index.php/surplus/

>Paul wrote:
>> daytripper wrote:
>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:08:02 -0400, Barry Watzman
>>> <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, being an "expert" is relative (an expert is anyone who knows more
>>>> than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I need some
>>>> help from an expert's expert.
>>>>
>>>> I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
>>>> PCI-Express slots.
>>>>
>>>> The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
>>>> external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin
>>>> SCSI-II interface (HD50F socket).
>>>>
>>>> First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
>>>> The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.
>>>>
>>>> Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how do
>>>> I connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> "Inexpensive" and "SCSI" hardly ever get together ;-)
>>>
>>> I found the Adaptec 29320LPE Single Channel Ultra 320 SCSI Controller
>>> available for just under $150US. Check Nextag.
>>>
>>> You can certainly attach an 8-bit scsi device to a 16b wide channel,
>>> you just
>>> need the right cable. I have a venerable 8bit async HP 4C scanner with
>>> the
>>> even more ancient Centronics connector cabled to a 68 pin external
>>> connector
>>> on a PCI 29320. It just takes the right cable...
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>
>> There is an HD68 to HD50 here, for going from wide to narrow. I have
>> one in my collection which is similar to this. Your Nikon could be
>> Single Ended (SE) and Async (up to 6MBsec, transfer rate varies with total
>> cable length due to async acknowledgement).
>>
>> http://www.computercablestore.com/SC...8__PID906.aspx
>>
>> There are a few pictures here, to help in identifying
>> the connector. In one case, I had to remove the securing elements
>> on my adapter, to connect to a device, as they were not mechanically
>> compatible.
>>
>> http://support.doit.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3116
>>
>> http://dirac.org/linux/misc/scsi/
>>
>> I've only fiddled with a half dozen SCSI setups, so this
>> wasn't my "day job". It is a pretty expensive technology to
>> hook up, in terms of the prices charged for cables and
>> adapters.
>>
>> I did see mention of something ideal for the job, but
>> apparently it isn't manufactured any more.
>>
>> http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-scsi-adapter-adaptec.htm
>>
>> This is the replacement. USB2 is capable of 30MB/sec,
>> so should be able to handle 3-6MB/sec no problem.
>>
>> "Ratoc USB 2.0 to Ultra SCSI Converter"
>> http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-to-scsi-adapter-u2scx.htm
>>
>> The MSRP is $99. That seems to be about the best price
>> I can find. I'd prefer to see some reviews, to understand
>> how well it works.
>>
>> http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/U2SCX.html
>>
>> Compatibility table.
>>
>> http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/...cxlistwin.html
>>
>> There aren't enough reviews here, to reach a conclusion.
>>
>>
> http://www.amazon.com/USB2-0-Ultra-S...EEQFHY/ref=sr_
>1_2?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1255144254&sr=8-2
>>
>>
>> Paul

All of my 2940's are 50-pin cards (the 2940 family includes both narrow
and wide devices).

However, the issue is not with respect to 2940's, since I'm looking for
a PCI Express adapter (and, ideally, one that is under $50).

But I'm curious about your comment: "The 50-pin device cannot terminate
the cable."

My plan was to use a 68 to 50 pin adapter at the back of the SCSI card,
or, alternatively, a 68 to 50 pin cable. The scanner has internal
termination (which can be turned on or off) and is the only device on
the SCSI chain. Are you saying that won't work? Since, at that point,
I'm already down to a 50-pin connector, how does the chain get terminated?

[note, FWIW, as a practical matter these scanners usually work fine even
if there is no termination at all (again, they are the only device on
the chain, and they are, by SCSI standards, low-speed devices)]


Donald White wrote:
> I used to use many 2940 adapters. To connect 50-pin SCSI devices to the
> 68 conductor cable I used Meritec 980211-1F1-3F0 adapters. The 50-pin
> device cannot terminate the cable. I used a separate 68-pin active
> terminator for that.
>
> http://meritec.thomasnet.com/item/co...1-3f0?&seo=110
>
>
> Hope this helps, but I may have misunderstood your requirements.
>
> Don
>
>
> Barry Watzman wrote:

Re: "My advice, if you are basically using the scsi card and pc for
updating and servicing these scanners, is to build up a slower second
hand PC that has PCI slots"

Not an option; or, perhaps more correctly, not an adequate answer to all
of the [many] reasons for the inquiry.

I sell these, hundreds of them. I have no control over the systems they
are going into or that my customers have. So far, we simply take the
position that they have to be used on systems with PCI slots, but that
is becoming more and more of an issue. I need information for my
customers as well as for myself. I have to know and understand the
possible configurations, and the implications of those configurations.
And I have to have personally worked with them myself, to at least some
degree, to be able to support them. And, finally, I will need the SCSI
cards, cables and any adapters required to be able to include those in
complete systems for customers who will use them in PCI Express desktops.