markm75 wrote:
> On Sep 12, 9:23 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>> markm75 wrote:
>>> I'm about to get this board most likely.. the p5e3 deluxe, which takes
>>> ddr3 memory..
>>> I cant find the module i was going to buy in their memory specs/
>>> recommendations, but i think it should be fine..
>>> What 2GB 1333 is everyone using in this board..
>>> would ocz special ops (9-9-9-27) be ok?
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227306
>> There is some CAS7 DDR3-1333 here, and in the same price range.
>> That would have less first cycle latency than some CAS9. The
>> operating voltage is also lower. (1.5V is nominal for DDR3, and
>> 1.65V represents the boost needed to meet specs. Really bad products
>> need much higher voltages. I see one listed as 1.85-1.95V)
>> Too bad the head spreaders are so crazy looking.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231200
>>
>> You can also look through the posts here, and see what people are
>> using, or are having trouble with.
>>
>> http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx...5E3+DELUXE&SLa...
>>
>> And if your plan is to populate with 8GB (4x2GB), you should
>> look through the reviews, to see how easy it is. Perhaps some
>> newer board can do it with more style.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131218
>>
>> Paul
>
> Thanks, hadnt considered Gskill.. i guess they are ok then eh?
>
> I was also thinking this ddr3 1600 may do
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227316 RB
> Cas8 not much more in price? Except i'd have to Over clock, not sure
> if i want to get into that, though based on newegg reviews it looks
> like they succeeded..
>
> According to newegg reviews.. it seems the only real issue is that i'd
> have to stick in my dual core cpu first.. update the bios then i could
> stick in the quad core i was getting (q9650 3.0ghz 1333fsb).
>
> Do you think going DDr3 is a waste of money (1333 cas 9, or maybe
> OC'd
> 1600 cas8).. since the only board i could find that meet my needs was
> a DDR3 that is. It gives me the flexibility, even if a little more
> money.. about $200 extra than planned.
>
>
> The downside is that DDR3 1333 ram runs at 21 GB/s bandwidth.. while
> v2.0 pciex16 maxes out at 8.5 GB/s or so.. that being the
> bottleneck..
> i would still think that CPU to ram speeds would benefit from the 21
> GB/s (vs what, about 8.5 for ddr2 1066?)..?
>
>
> I really couldnt find any other motherboards that met my strange
> needs, specially ddr2..
>
> I want to run two 4870 cards, raid5 pciex4 card, audio pciex1 card,
> video pci card.. those video cards will run independently, ill never
> do crossfire or sli.. i thought i had found a motherboard in the p5e
> deluxe, the ddr2 board at one point, but the 2nd video slot was only
> 8x and the slot arrangement killed the other ports i'd need.
>
> Its been a tough find.. i think there may have been a $350+ board ddr3
> one that met the needs, but that was a bit costly compared to this one
> with the rebate..
>
There are always alternatives, but some boards just have bad
reputations (you can see in the Newegg reviews, how
certain chipsets seem to fail prematurely).
I guess it all depends on what you're doing with the video cards,
as to how important it is to have full full bandwidth. I'm not
convinced it is always needed.
If you search for just the right motherboard, with absolutely
no bottlenecks of any kind, it can cost you $600+ (Skulltrail
or Z7S WS). And that may not be the nicest all round choice (FBDIMMs).
The 5400 has enough bandwidth to run four video card slots at
decent speeds. And the Northbridge to Southbridge path has
about x8 speed, which means it is also possible to run some
smaller slots off the Southbridge.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/i...rail/sheme.png
I can give a concrete example. I purchased a PCI video card the
other day, to be used in a computer while doing a video card
BIOS flash (flash a second card in an AGP slot). So now I have a
FX5200 PCI and an FX5200 AGP8X card in my possession. So I decided
to run 3DMark2001SE on it (the new PCI), and got almost as high
a rating as the AGP card. The PCI slot is capable of 133MB/sec,
while the AGP8X in theory is 2100MB/sec or so. Which shows that
at least for those pathetic cards, the bandwidth is not nearly
as important as you'd think. In actual usage, the only time the
PCI card sucks, is dragging certain kinds of close to full screen
images across the screen (the ones that re-render when you move
them).
To see a similar analysis, you can look at this article.
The benchmark SpecviewPerf seems to be sensitive to PCI Express
slot bandwidth, but many of the other tests are not sensitive.
For the rest, a PCI Express x4 seems to be enough. If you had
a board with an x8 slot, that could well be enough.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ing,927-8.html
One thing you have to watch on the Intel boards, is where the
PCI Express x4 comes from. This would be a typical scheme for
Intel. (The 5400 to ESB2, being a server architecture, is more
of an exception with its two busses.)
CPU
| FSB
Northbridge
|
| DMI (roughly x4)
|
Southbridge
| | |
PCI SATA PCI Express x4,x1,x1
The lanes off the Southbridge, are flexible, so some
boards break them up as x1's or provide an x4. But the
bandwidth is shared with other Southbridge facilities,
so the DMI is the (slight) bottleneck. As long as your
application doesn't need 1000MB/sec, it is probably OK.
Some Nvidia chipsets, use both the Northbridge and
Southbridge to provide video slots, and you may not
easily be able to find details about the equivalent
of the DMI bus. Nvidia has offered up to 62 lanes
total in their designs, but as always there are
quirks where stuff isn't running at full speed,
or shares etc. Nvidia doesn't offer datasheets like
Intel, so you cannot get all the details you need.
CPU
| FSB
Video --- Northbridge
|
| ??? (Could be Hypertransport 4GB/sec bidir)
|
Video --- Southbridge
| | |
PCI SATA PCI Express x1's etc
The thing is, you can nit-pick these architectures all
day long, but eventually you have to buy something :-)
The memory bandwidth is shared amongst all the big
consumers. The processor generally has some limit as
to how long it will sustain a transfer (likes to
transfer a cache line at a time), and this is reflected
in some of the benchmarks. So even if the calculation says
"21GB/sec", a memory benchmark will achieve a lot less.
That leaves room if the video cards want to do the
occasional transfer. It is pretty hard to do a back
of the envelope calculation and decide whether a particular
memory choice is "enough". One of the reasons for these
super-fast memories, is for the overclockers to do their
thing. It is possible if you're running the system at stock
speeds, to get adequate performance with more ordinary memory.
I tend to like slightly less than top clock speed memory,
with a lower CAS. Which is why I was more interested in a
CAS7 product perhaps.
As for picking just the right board, it takes a lot of time
to analyse the architecture quirks of a 100 different boards,
so I'll have to leave that to you :-)
One problem I'm having with your card choices, is the
4870's appear to be double slot cards. Doesn't that
total up to 7 slots total ? The double slot cards
also require checking the slot layout, even if the
total was only 6 slot widths.
two 4870 cards
raid5 pciex4 card
audio pciex1 card
video pci card
OK, this is my best (compromise) board found so far. DDR2 RAM.
I think it's a pretty good fit.
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6 LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - $235
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128343
And this is the card population order for it.
PCI Express x1 (audio)
PCI Express version 2 x8 (4GB/sec) Video card #1
(blank) x4 slot unavailable
PCI Express version 1 x4 (<<1000MB/sec) RAID5 card slot
PCI Express version 2 x8 (4GB/sec) Video card #2
(blank) PCI slot unavailable
PCI slot Video card #3
The best comedy awaits inside the user manual. Block diagram page 8.
A PCI Express switch is used to share x4 amongst up to 12 lanes of
load. As long as you don't do a lot of networking, your RAID5 card
will run full speed.
http://europe.giga-byte.com/FileList...ep45-dq6_e.pdf
HTH,
Paul
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