PackardBell Legend 822CDT and IDE disk sizes?

Hello,,,,,


I have a (circa)1995 Packard Bell Legend 822CDT with the PB600
Motherboard.

The original BIOS has been upgraded. The files included in the update
are PHFLASH.EXE, Autoexec.bak (a bat file to execute the PBFLASH),
BIOS.ROM, BUILD.MAP, CRISDISK.BAT, MAKEBOOT.EXE, MINIDOS.SYS, and
PLATFORM.BIN. There is a README.TXT which contains the following:

Short Description: PB600 Agoura Flash BIOS Version 1.20 Disk 1 of 1
Long Description : PB600 Agoura Flash BIOS Version 1.20 Disk 1 of 1
Note: This BIOS upgrade is to resolve the Year 2000 issue.

On Boot the BIOS displays the following:

PhoenixBios Version 4.04
Copyright 1987-1995,,,,,,,,
AGOURA release 1.20

Also, this system has been upgraded to the Windows98SE and is running
as expected (GREAT) with 88MB RAM. No problems with the CIRRUS
5430/40 Graphics PCI card, the Axtech Sound Galaxy Washington 16 PCI
card, or other devices.

Several years back when disks greater than 5GB were evolving, I think
Ben Meyrs, etc. commented on disk drive inserts relative to the IDE
..vs. PCI controllers and drivers as well as the maximum size BIOS's
and Windows could handle on the IDE. I tried looking for these
comments but could not find them in this Newsgroup.

Also, around 1999-2003 I found an artivcle that mentioned if a BIOS
date is 1998 or newer all of the GBs on the larger size IDE drives
should be available. At that time several systems with BIOS's 1998 or
newer were upgraded with 20 and 40 gb drives on the IDE and the BIOS
and Operating systems used all GBs on these IDE drives.

For this PackardBell Legend 822CDT inserting more IDE Hard disks
should not be a problem (IDE 1 Slave, IDE 2 MASTER and IDE 2 Slave are
available).

But, can this BIOS version handle a disk drive that is at or greater
than 5GB?????

If not, is there a BIOS update to allow IDE hard disks greater than
5GB????

If so, can you provide a link to that location?????


THANKS for your Time, Advice, and Help.

Jerry

jglong3 wrote:
> Hello,,,,,
>
>
> I have a (circa)1995 Packard Bell Legend 822CDT with the PB600
> Motherboard.
>
> The original BIOS has been upgraded. The files included in the update
> are PHFLASH.EXE, Autoexec.bak (a bat file to execute the PBFLASH),
> BIOS.ROM, BUILD.MAP, CRISDISK.BAT, MAKEBOOT.EXE, MINIDOS.SYS, and
> PLATFORM.BIN. There is a README.TXT which contains the following:
>
> Short Description: PB600 Agoura Flash BIOS Version 1.20 Disk 1 of 1
> Long Description : PB600 Agoura Flash BIOS Version 1.20 Disk 1 of 1
> Note: This BIOS upgrade is to resolve the Year 2000 issue.
>
> On Boot the BIOS displays the following:
>
> PhoenixBios Version 4.04
> Copyright 1987-1995,,,,,,,,
> AGOURA release 1.20
>
> Also, this system has been upgraded to the Windows98SE and is running
> as expected (GREAT) with 88MB RAM. No problems with the CIRRUS
> 5430/40 Graphics PCI card, the Axtech Sound Galaxy Washington 16 PCI
> card, or other devices.
>
> Several years back when disks greater than 5GB were evolving, I think
> Ben Meyrs, etc. commented on disk drive inserts relative to the IDE
> .vs. PCI controllers and drivers as well as the maximum size BIOS's
> and Windows could handle on the IDE. I tried looking for these
> comments but could not find them in this Newsgroup.
>
> Also, around 1999-2003 I found an artivcle that mentioned if a BIOS
> date is 1998 or newer all of the GBs on the larger size IDE drives
> should be available. At that time several systems with BIOS's 1998 or
> newer were upgraded with 20 and 40 gb drives on the IDE and the BIOS
> and Operating systems used all GBs on these IDE drives.
>
> For this PackardBell Legend 822CDT inserting more IDE Hard disks
> should not be a problem (IDE 1 Slave, IDE 2 MASTER and IDE 2 Slave are
> available).
>
> But, can this BIOS version handle a disk drive that is at or greater
> than 5GB?????
>
> If not, is there a BIOS update to allow IDE hard disks greater than
> 5GB????
>
> If so, can you provide a link to that location?????
>
>
> THANKS for your Time, Advice, and Help.
>
> Jerry
>
The Agoura motherboard is from the era where 8.4GB was the max. IDE
drive capacity limits imposed by motherboard BIOSes went from 528MB to
2.1GB to 8.4GB to 32GB to 128GB to whatever today's limit is.

Promise (and others like SIIG) made a PCI add-on card to overcome a BIOS
limitation on hard drive size.

For a time, there were 3rd party BIOS upgrades for a number of
motherboards with Intel chipsets. "3rd party" meant that you paid for
the upgrade.

Finally, for a time, Western Digital and other drive manufacturers
packaged software with their retail drives to overcome drive
limitations. These are pretty ugly solutions, but, hey, if nothing else
works........ Ben Myers

Hi

Ben is right. My old PB , with the old 680 Orlando MB had a
limit of 8.4 too. With the WD software, (I think it is called Easy
tools or something like that ) does work. My old PB with the old 680
could recognize 13 plus with that software.

Bill

On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:44:22 -0500, Ben Myers <>
wrote:

>jglong3 wrote:
>> Hello,,,,,
>>
>>
>> I have a (circa)1995 Packard Bell Legend 822CDT with the PB600
>> Motherboard.
>>.

>> .
>> .
>> On Boot the BIOS displays the following:
>>
>> PhoenixBios Version 4.04
>> Copyright 1987-1995,,,,,,,,
>> AGOURA release 1.20
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> THANKS for your Time, Advice, and Help.
>>
>> Jerry
>>

>The Agoura motherboard is from the era where 8.4GB was the max. IDE
>drive capacity limits imposed by motherboard BIOSes went from 528MB to
>2.1GB to 8.4GB to 32GB to 128GB to whatever today's limit is.
>
>Promise (and others like SIIG) made a PCI add-on card to overcome a BIOS
>limitation on hard drive size.
>
>For a time, there were 3rd party BIOS upgrades for a number of
>motherboards with Intel chipsets. "3rd party" meant that you paid for
>the upgrade.
>
>Finally, for a time, Western Digital and other drive manufacturers
>packaged software with their retail drives to overcome drive
>limitations. These are pretty ugly solutions, but, hey, if nothing else
>works........ Ben Myers

>Hi
>
> Ben is right. My old PB , with the old 680 Orlando MB had a
>limit of 8.4 too. With the WD software, (I think it is called Easy
>tools or something like that ) does work. My old PB with the old 680
>could recognize 13 plus with that software.
>
>Bill

Hello Ben and Bill,,,,,,


THANKS for the REPLIES!!!!

At Boot time I have taken a look at this BIOS by entering F2. The
selection of any of the IDE devices shows the term LBA (Large Block
Addressing---I Think????). This lead me to think that even a 20-40GB
dirve could be interpreted and set up corredctly by this BIOS. If I
remember correctly way back to BIOS changes to handle the evolution of
huge GB disks, this is the term that started to evolve and the various
descriptions of the BIOS algorithm(s) used to allow the use of all GBs
on these huge disks,,,,

I must admit I have not kept up with the meaning behind the
terminology used by the various vendors for Computers as well as
BIOSs,,,,,, So, in that light please correct me if I am wrong:

The Agoura term seems to relate to the PB600 BIOS code
in the PB600 Motherboard,,,,,,

And in my case unless a third party can be found that has modified
this release:

PhoenixBios Version 4.04
Copyright 1987-1995,,,,,,,,
AGOURA release 1.20

and specifically for the method of addressing the sizes above 8.4 GB
then this PB Legend 822CDT will only handle up to 8.4GB on the
IDE(????)

Even if I see the term LBA used by this BIOS(????)

If I have interpreted this correctly and I cannot find a modified
Pheonix BIOS for the PB600 Motherboard to get greater than 8.4GB then
the Promise (and others like SIIG) as well as Western Digital and
other drive manufacturers is the way to go?????

Thanks for your time, help, and advice!!!!!


Jerry

Hi!

> Windows could handle on the IDE.

The version of Windows you are using will affect this, but no matter what
release of Windows you are using, your computer must be able to see the
startup disk at its proper size. Windows NT, 2000, XP and newer can accept
disks of just about any size once they are up and running. These operating
systems have drivers that take over from any BIOS once they have started up.
To a lesser extent, Windows 98 and Me can as well, but only for removable
disks that connect via Firewire and USB. Internal disks have to be correctly
recognized by their controlling BIOS or Windows 9x won't be able to deal
with them properly.

> Also, around 1999-2003 I found an artivcle that mentioned if a BIOS
> date is 1998 or newer all of the GBs on the larger size IDE drives
> should be available.

That information is too general. It really all depends upon the manufacturer
and what they decided to support. I have an HP Vectra VL Pentium II with a
mid-2000 era BIOS and it is limited to 8.4GB for all disks that are
controlled and configured by the system BIOS.

There are other limits as well...some systems have problems with disks
larger than 20GB. Some can't go above 127GB.

And it does depend upon the manufacturer. I have a Dell Precision 220
Workstation from 2001 whose BIOS supports 48-bit LBA and can therefore
accept and recognize a disk over 127GB in size. If a 1TB disk existed with a
PATA connector on it, this system could use it no problem. A much newer Dell
Latitude D800 (2005) does not, and is limited to 127GB maximum disk size.

> But, can this BIOS version handle a disk drive that is at or greater
> than 5GB?????

You will just have to try it and see. You will know right away if it doesn't
work when you go into the BIOS setup program. However, some computers will
hang up if they see a disk that is "too large". That is why some hard drives
have a "capacity limit" jumper that allows them to lie about their capacity
to let the system boot. A software utility known as a drive overlay would
then be used when the computer starts to enable access to all the capacity
of the drive. (This doesn't work with all operating systems.)

I've found that hardware manufacturers don't often advertise whether or not
the latest BIOS will enhance disk capacity support. Some do and some do not.
You will have to get the latest BIOS, flash it and see what happens.

William

Hi!

> The selection of any of the IDE devices shows the term LBA (Large Block
> Addressing---I Think????). This lead me to think that even a 20-40GB
> dirve could be interpreted and set up corredctly by this BIOS.

LBA first came about when disks larger than 528MB became available. It is a
translation method to allow larger drives to be used. Other methods exist,
such as Extended CHS. Just having support for LBA translation does not mean
that you can automatically use as big of a hard drive as you can find. It is
only part of the puzzle.

> The Agoura term seems to relate to the PB600 BIOS code
>in the PB600 Motherboard,,,,,,

Agoura is the name that PB gave your motherboard. Each one was unique,
although some board names were shared across slightly different boards.

William

Hello William,,,,,,


Thanks for the Replies!!!

OK,,,About the ",,,,,have to try it and see.,,,," and that's pretty
much the way I was leaning.

On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:11:24 GMT, "William R. Walsh"
< m> wrote:

Hi!

>> The selection of any of the IDE devices shows the term LBA (Large Block,,,,,,,,,

>LBA first came about when disks larger than 528MB became available. It is a
>translation method to allow larger drives to be used. Other methods exist,
>such as Extended CHS. Just having support for LBA translation does not mean
>that you can automatically use as big of a hard drive as you can find. It is
>only part of the puzzle.

This confirms what I thought I had read many years ago. When the huge
sizes were begining to evolve these articles discussed the LBA and
the associated problems in the BIOSs of the day. This was so long ago
I could not remember the details,,,,

In general, if my memory serves these discussed several different
algorithms for LBA which at that time could vary from BIOS to BIOS.
And, as you mention even the "Extended CHS". And the algorithm used
in a BIOS would only support the number of GBs it was coded to
handle.

Thanks for the confirmation!!!!!


>William
>On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:08:16 GMT, "William R. Walsh" < m> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>> Windows could handle on the IDE.
>
>The version of Windows you are using will affect this, but no matter what
>release of Windows you are using, your computer must be able to see the
>startup disk at its proper size. Windows NT, 2000, XP and newer can accept
>disks of just about any size once they are up and running. These operating
>systems have drivers that take over from any BIOS once they have started up.
>To a lesser extent, Windows 98 and Me can as well, but only for removable
>disks that connect via Firewire and USB. Internal disks have to be correctly
>recognized by their controlling BIOS or Windows 9x won't be able to deal
>with them properly.
>
>> Also, around 1999-2003 I found an artivcle that mentioned if a BIOS
>> date is 1998 or newer all of the GBs on the larger size IDE drives
>> should be available.
>
>That information is too general. It really all depends upon the manufacturer
>and what they decided to support. I have an HP Vectra VL Pentium II with a
>mid-2000 era BIOS and it is limited to 8.4GB for all disks that are
>controlled and configured by the system BIOS.

OK,,,, the sizes that I mention (20-40GB) were added to a few systems
and only to IDE 0 Slave and IDE 1 MASTER and SLAVE. But, as you
mentioned below this was a "try and see" with a good hit. If a 100GB+
drive was added it may not have been set up correctly to its maximum
GBs and perhaps not even recognized, or caused various other problems.

For this PackardBell Legend822CDT the original 1.2 GB disk drive will
not be replaced. Simply want to add disks to IDE 0 Slave and IDE 1
SLAVE.

>
>There are other limits as well...some systems have problems with disks
>larger than 20GB. Some can't go above 127GB.
>
>And it does depend upon the manufacturer. I have a Dell Precision 220
>Workstation from 2001 whose BIOS supports 48-bit LBA and can therefore
>accept and recognize a disk over 127GB in size. If a 1TB disk existed with a
>PATA connector on it, this system could use it no problem. A much newer Dell
>Latitude D800 (2005) does not, and is limited to 127GB maximum disk size.
>
>> But, can this BIOS version handle a disk drive that is at or greater
>> than 5GB?????
>
>You will just have to try it and see. You will know right away if it doesn't
>work when you go into the BIOS setup program. However, some computers will
>hang up if they see a disk that is "too large". That is why some hard drives
>have a "capacity limit" jumper that allows them to lie about their capacity
>to let the system boot. A software utility known as a drive overlay would
>then be used when the computer starts to enable access to all the capacity
>of the drive. (This doesn't work with all operating systems.)
>
>I've found that hardware manufacturers don't often advertise whether or not
>the latest BIOS will enhance disk capacity support. Some do and some do not.
>You will have to get the latest BIOS, flash it and see what happens.
>
>William
>

OK,,,,, I'll give the 20-40 GB disk on the IDE a try and see what
happens,,,,,,,

Also, still looking for any newer BIOS for this PB600 Motherboard
----that is if any exists and the upgrades would benifit the BIOS
update.


William-------Thanks for your time, advice, and help!!!!!


Jerry

On Feb 20, 8:08*pm, "philo" <ph...@privacy.net> wrote:
> "jglong3" <jglo...@att.net> wrote in message
>
> news:...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello,,,,,
>
> > I have a (circa)1995 Packard Bell Legend 822CDT with the PB600
> > Motherboard.
>
> > The original BIOS has been upgraded. The files included in the update
> > are PHFLASH.EXE, Autoexec.bak (a bat file to execute the PBFLASH),
> > BIOS.ROM, BUILD.MAP, CRISDISK.BAT, MAKEBOOT.EXE, MINIDOS.SYS, and
> > PLATFORM.BIN. There is a README.TXT which contains the following:
>
> > *Short Description: PB600 Agoura Flash BIOS Version 1.20 Disk 1 of 1
> > *Long Description : PB600 Agoura Flash BIOS Version 1.20 Disk 1 of 1
> > *Note: This BIOS upgrade is to resolve the Year 2000 issue.
>
> > On Boot the BIOS displays the following:
>
> > * PhoenixBios Version 4.04
> > * Copyright 1987-1995,,,,,,,,
> > * AGOURA release 1.20
>
> > Also, this system has been upgraded to the Windows98SE and is running
> > as expected (GREAT) with 88MB RAM. No problems with the *CIRRUS
> > 5430/40 Graphics PCI card, the Axtech Sound Galaxy Washington 16 PCI
> > card, or other devices.
>
> > Several years back when disks greater than 5GB were evolving, I think
> > Ben Meyrs, etc. commented on disk drive inserts relative to the IDE
> > .vs. PCI controllers and drivers as well as the maximum *size BIOS's
> > and Windows could handle on the IDE. I tried looking for these
> > comments but could not find them in this Newsgroup.
>
> > Also, around 1999-2003 I found an artivcle that mentioned if a BIOS
> > date is 1998 or newer all of the GBs on the larger size IDE *drives
> > should be available. At that time several systems with BIOS's 1998 or
> > newer were upgraded with 20 and 40 gb drives on the IDE and the BIOS
> > and Operating systems used all GBs on these IDE drives.
>
> > For this PackardBell Legend 822CDT inserting more IDE Hard disks
> > should not be a problem (IDE 1 Slave, IDE 2 MASTER and IDE 2 Slave are
> > available).
>
> > But, can this BIOS version handle a disk drive that is at or greater
> > than 5GB?????
>
> > If not, is there a BIOS update to allow IDE hard disks greater than
> > 5GB????
>
> > If so, can you provide a link to that location?????
>
> > THANKS for your Time, Advice, and Help. * *
>
> > Jerry
>
> I have a PB Legend circa 1995
> that came with an 850 meg HD
>
> The bios could recognize 8 gigs...
> but with drive overlay software you can go bigger...(such a EZ bios)
> as I later put in a 20 gig drive with no problems.
>
> For whatever reason...the machine would not recognize a PCI controller card.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Your PCI controller card may or may not be supported by the pci
version on your computer.
Circa 1995 is to vague.
Download Sandra sisoft for more detailed info about you motherboard

Socket 4& 5 motherboards by PB in general support pci 2.0
Socket 7 support pci 2.1

486 motherboards that do have the PCI riser card


Most newer pci hd controller cards are PCI are pci 2.2
I think they once made a pci 2.0 card that supported 10.4 gigs ata
33/66

On Feb 22, 7:32*am, "philo" <ph...@privacy.net> wrote:
> "metronid" <metro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c75b8edf-d5b3-4fd8-9b61-...
> On Feb 20, 8:08 pm, "philo" <ph...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "jglong3" <jglo...@att.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:.. .
>
> > > Hello,,,,,
>
> > > I have a (circa)1995 Packard Bell Legend 822CDT with the PB600
> > > Motherboard.
>
> > > The original BIOS has been upgraded. The files included in the update
> > > are PHFLASH.EXE, Autoexec.bak (a bat file to execute the PBFLASH),
> > > BIOS.ROM, BUILD.MAP, CRISDISK.BAT, MAKEBOOT.EXE, MINIDOS.SYS, and
> > > PLATFORM.BIN. There is a README.TXT which contains the following:
>
> > > Short Description: PB600 Agoura Flash BIOS Version 1.20 Disk 1 of 1
> > > Long Description : PB600 Agoura Flash BIOS Version 1.20 Disk 1 of 1
> > > Note: This BIOS upgrade is to resolve the Year 2000 issue.
>
> > > On Boot the BIOS displays the following:
>
> > > PhoenixBios Version 4.04
> > > Copyright 1987-1995,,,,,,,,
> > > AGOURA release 1.20
>
> > > Also, this system has been upgraded to the Windows98SE and is running
> > > as expected (GREAT) with 88MB RAM. No problems with the CIRRUS
> > > 5430/40 Graphics PCI card, the Axtech Sound Galaxy Washington 16 PCI
> > > card, or other devices.
>
> > > Several years back when disks greater than 5GB were evolving, I think
> > > Ben Meyrs, etc. commented on disk drive inserts relative to the IDE
> > > .vs. PCI controllers and drivers as well as the maximum size BIOS's
> > > and Windows could handle on the IDE. I tried looking for these
> > > comments but could not find them in this Newsgroup.
>
> > > Also, around 1999-2003 I found an artivcle that mentioned if a BIOS
> > > date is 1998 or newer all of the GBs on the larger size IDE drives
> > > should be available. At that time several systems with BIOS's 1998 or
> > > newer were upgraded with 20 and 40 gb drives on the IDE and the BIOS
> > > and Operating systems used all GBs on these IDE drives.
>
> > > For this PackardBell Legend 822CDT inserting more IDE Hard disks
> > > should not be a problem (IDE 1 Slave, IDE 2 MASTER and IDE 2 Slave are
> > > available).
>
> > > But, can this BIOS version handle a disk drive that is at or greater
> > > than 5GB?????
>
> > > If not, is there a BIOS update to allow IDE hard disks greater than
> > > 5GB????
>
> > > If so, can you provide a link to that location?????
>
> > > THANKS for your Time, Advice, and Help.
>
> > > Jerry
>
> > I have a PB Legend circa 1995
> > that came with an 850 meg HD
>
> > The bios could recognize 8 gigs...
> > but with drive overlay software you can go bigger...(such a EZ bios)
> > as I later put in a 20 gig drive with no problems.
>
> > For whatever reason...the machine would not recognize a PCI controller
> > card.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> *Your PCI controller card may or may not be supported by the pci
> version on your computer.
> *Circa 1995 is to vague.
> *Download Sandra sisoft for more detailed info about you motherboard
>
> *Socket 4& *5 motherboards by PB *in general support pci 2.0
> *Socket 7 support pci 2.1
>
> *486 motherboards that do have the PCI riser card
>
> Most newer pci hd controller cards are PCI are pci 2.2
> I think they once made a pci 2.0 card *that supported *10.4 gigs ata
> 33/66
>
> Well, when I retired my machine I returned it pretty much the way it
> was originally.
>
> One other thing I might was well mention is that when I got the 20 gig
> drive...
> If I partitioned and formatted it on another machine...
> then put it in the PB...the OS *(Win98) could use the full 20 gigs
> even without the overlay software.
>
> The only thing is, dos utilites saw the drive as mis-configured...
> I imagine because the bios only reported the first 8 gigs...
> so to avoid any possible problems I used the overlay- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have no problem with using overlay bios.
It slows it down a little.
Is it really not as bad a people say.
If you keep your unit tuned with a program like registry mechanic or
such as opposed
to one that does not but has normal bios then the one with the
registry optimizer is probably faster.