PIC Development Help - compiler and IDE

I am just starting to learn PIC programming. I have some experience with
Motorola processors so it's not brand new to me. I was wondering what C
compilers are best for PIC's, what are you guys using. I was also looking
for an IDE. I am especially interested in low cost products. I have the
PICKit 2 (USB interface) and the MP Labs IDE. Unfortunately I am having some
compatibility issues:

1) The MP Labs IDE does not support the PICKit 2. I have to code in the IDE,
then switch to the basic PIC programming to write the file. No programming
or debugging can be done with the IDE.

2) The Pic lite compiler I have does not support the chip I am using - the
PIC16F690. Maybe the solution is to create a header file for the specific
chip. Maybe you know a site that has files like this.

I was surprised that the package I ordered did not have compatible products,
all the items were bundled together in a kit. I would like to get it up and
running because the PIC's have some nice features on them. My plan B is to
go back to the Motorola chips.

Thanks for any help.

"js1180" <> wrote in message
news:1129254708.6ff4ae6e3352ecfbdb3a17b35ff36f85@t eranews...
>I am just starting to learn PIC programming. I have some experience with
>Motorola processors so it's not brand new to me. I was wondering what C
>compilers are best for PIC's, what are you guys using. I was also looking
>for an IDE. I am especially interested in low cost products. I have the
>PICKit 2 (USB interface) and the MP Labs IDE. Unfortunately I am having
>some compatibility issues:
>
> 1) The MP Labs IDE does not support the PICKit 2. I have to code in the
> IDE, then switch to the basic PIC programming to write the file. No
> programming or debugging can be done with the IDE.

You can use MPLAB SIM in the IDE to simulate your code. If you get into
really complicated projects that require debugging in circuit with various
peripherals running, you should buy the MPLAB ICD2, which will interface
directly with MPLAB IDE. You'd then be able to program your PIC and debug
real time without switching applications.

> 2) The Pic lite compiler I have does not support the chip I am using -
the
> PIC16F690. Maybe the solution is to create a header file for the specific
> chip. Maybe you know a site that has files like this.

The HI-TECH PICC-Lite compiler was purposely crippled so it could be
released for free. If you want a C compiler for that particular chip, you
should buy the HI-TECH PICC compiler.

Personally, I don't recommend that you program PIC16's in C. The PIC16
architecture isn't optimized for C code. Hand written asm code will likely
run faster and take less space. If you are bent on using C, I would
recommend using a PIC18 part instead, which was designed with C in mind.
(The PICKit 2 may not be able to program PIC18s yet) Also, if you used a
PIC18 part, you could download and use the Microchip MPLAB C18 C compiler,
which is a very good C compiler. The free version of C18 disables the
procedurable abstraction optimization, which is of no consequence unless you
are completely out of FLASM memory. Otherwise, the free version is
uncrippled and supports all current and future PIC18s.

Although I've never used PICC-Lite, my guess is that you would have to
compile for one of the PICs that are supported in addition to modifying the
header file.

> I was surprised that the package I ordered did not have compatible
> products, all the items were bundled together in a kit.

The PICKit 2, true to it's name, is a starter kit. PICC-Lite is a 3rd party
product, so it strikes me as reasonable that it does not support the
PIC16F690, despite there being a copy of it on the CD. Also, the PICKit 2
is very new. While it may not be supported in MPLAB IDE yet, full source
code for the host application and the internal firmware is available, so one
day it may be interfaceable directly to MPLAB.

Hi,

js1180 wrote:

> 2) The Pic lite compiler I have does not support the chip I am using
> - the PIC16F690. Maybe the solution is to create a header file for
> the specific chip. Maybe you know a site that has files like this.

There are no cheap/free reasonable C compilers for most PICs. As Howard
wrote, the PIC architecture is not compiler friendly.
>
> I was surprised that the package I ordered did not have compatible
> products, all the items were bundled together in a kit. I would like
> to get it up and running because the PIC's have some nice features on
> them. My plan B is to go back to the Motorola chips.

I had a deep look at Motorola and Philips and 8051-processors coming
from PIC/assembly. I ended up with Atmel AVR-processors and avr-gcc
using eclipse as IDE. Thats free and works very well.

Regards, Kurt
--
Kurt Harders
PiN -Präsenz im Netz GITmbH
private.php?do=newpm&u=
http://www.pin-gmbh.com

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:17:52 +0000, Kurt Harders wrote:

I ended up with Atmel AVR-processors and avr-gcc using
> eclipse as IDE. Thats free and works very well.

GCC is an excellent compiler. I use it for the Hitachi processors. It's
amazing that something that good is free.

Dan

js1180 wrote:

> I am just starting to learn PIC programming. I have some experience with
> Motorola processors so it's not brand new to me. I was wondering what C
> compilers are best for PIC's, what are you guys using. I was also looking
> for an IDE. I am especially interested in low cost products. I have the
> PICKit 2 (USB interface) and the MP Labs IDE. Unfortunately I am having some
> compatibility issues:
>
I have been using the CCS compiler for a few years. It cost $A200, which
is quite cheap. Works great. You can simulate and step through with MPLAB

--
Angelo Fraietta
http://www.smartcontroller.com.au/~angelo/

Hi Dan,

Dan N wrote:

> GCC is an excellent compiler. I use it for the Hitachi processors.
> It's amazing that something that good is free.

It has a development of > 15 years with permanent innovation :-).

Regards, Kurt
--
Kurt Harders
PiN -Präsenz im Netz GITmbH
private.php?do=newpm&u=
http://www.pin-gmbh.com

Howard Henry Schlunder wrote:

> "js1180" <> wrote in message
> news:1129254708.6ff4ae6e3352ecfbdb3a17b35ff36f85@t eranews...
> >I am just starting to learn PIC programming. I have some experience with
> >Motorola processors so it's not brand new to me. I was wondering what C
> >compilers are best for PIC's, what are you guys using. I was also looking
> >for an IDE. I am especially interested in low cost products. I have the
> >PICKit 2 (USB interface) and the MP Labs IDE. Unfortunately I am having
> >some compatibility issues:
> >
> > 1) The MP Labs IDE does not support the PICKit 2. I have to code in the
> > IDE, then switch to the basic PIC programming to write the file. No
> > programming or debugging can be done with the IDE.
>
> You can use MPLAB SIM in the IDE to simulate your code. If you get into
> really complicated projects that require debugging in circuit with various
> peripherals running, you should buy the MPLAB ICD2, which will interface
> directly with MPLAB IDE. You'd then be able to program your PIC and debug
> real time without switching applications.
>
> > 2) The Pic lite compiler I have does not support the chip I am using -
> the
> > PIC16F690. Maybe the solution is to create a header file for the specific
> > chip. Maybe you know a site that has files like this.
>
> The HI-TECH PICC-Lite compiler was purposely crippled so it could be
> released for free. If you want a C compiler for that particular chip, you
> should buy the HI-TECH PICC compiler.
>
> Personally, I don't recommend that you program PIC16's in C. The PIC16
> architecture isn't optimized for C code. Hand written asm code will likely
> run faster and take less space. If you are bent on using C, I would
> recommend using a PIC18 part instead, which was designed with C in mind.
> (The PICKit 2 may not be able to program PIC18s yet) Also, if you used a
> PIC18 part, you could download and use the Microchip MPLAB C18 C compiler,
> which is a very good C compiler. The free version of C18 disables the
> procedurable abstraction optimization, which is of no consequence unless you
> are completely out of FLASM memory. Otherwise, the free version is
> uncrippled and supports all current and future PIC18s.
>
> Although I've never used PICC-Lite, my guess is that you would have to
> compile for one of the PICs that are supported in addition to modifying the
> header file.
>
> > I was surprised that the package I ordered did not have compatible
> > products, all the items were bundled together in a kit.
>
> The PICKit 2, true to it's name, is a starter kit. PICC-Lite is a 3rd party
> product, so it strikes me as reasonable that it does not support the
> PIC16F690, despite there being a copy of it on the CD. Also, the PICKit 2
> is very new. While it may not be supported in MPLAB IDE yet, full source
> code for the host application and the internal firmware is available, so one
> day it may be interfaceable directly to MPLAB.

I use Hi-Tech C on PIC16's the results are acceptable. Not Very cheap however.

"js1180" <> wrote in message
news:1129254708.6ff4ae6e3352ecfbdb3a17b35ff36f85@t eranews...
>I am just starting to learn PIC programming. I have some experience with
>Motorola processors so it's not brand new to me. I was wondering what C
>compilers are best for PIC's, what are you guys using. I was also looking
>for an IDE. I am especially interested in low cost products. I have the
>PICKit 2 (USB interface) and the MP Labs IDE. Unfortunately I am having
>some compatibility issues:

low cost compilers

for good number of flash pics -sourceboost/boostc
www.picant.com
has a seperate ide or can work from inside mplab
http://www.sourceboost.ipbhost.com/

supported devices
<http://sourceboost.ipbhost.com/index...&showtopic=961
>
does support 16f690


for 18f only
microchip C18 compiler free student version
works from inside mplab.

Picclite also can work from inside mplab.

Mplab from microchip - windows only ide includes assembler
<http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName =en019469&part=SW007002>

to debug from mplab you need either a microchip idc2 or compatable device
<http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName =en010046&part=DV164005>

Getting started with mplab and C18 compiler
<http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2123&param=en 024282>


Olimex sells some cheap pic boards and also a icd clone
much easier to buy online from one of their US distributors
www.sparkfun.com who also have some very easy to use and
great little sensor and radio boards

Futurlec.com have some cheap pic , avr, and 8051 development boards
http://www.futurlec.com/DevelopmentBoards.shtml
http://www.futurlec.com/DevelopmentBoards.shtml
http://www.futurlec.com/TrainingBoards.shtml
http://www.futurlec.com/BasicControllers.shtml

>
> 1) The MP Labs IDE does not support the PICKit 2. I have to code in the
> IDE, then switch to the basic PIC programming to write the file. No
> programming or debugging can be done with the IDE.
>
> 2) The Pic lite compiler I have does not support the chip I am using - the
> PIC16F690. Maybe the solution is to create a header file for the specific
> chip. Maybe you know a site that has files like this.
>
> I was surprised that the package I ordered did not have compatible
> products, all the items were bundled together in a kit. I would like to
> get it up and running because the PIC's have some nice features on them.
> My plan B is to go back to the Motorola chips.
>
> Thanks for any help.

Take a look at the Philips lpc21xx range of arm7 chips
http://www.semiconductors.philips.co...bit/index.html
From 2- 64K ram , 32 - 512k flash , 60 or 70MHz , 10 bit adc , dac , pwm

2148 has usb

For a cross platform tools and ide use armgcc + eclipse
http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/ARM...th_Eclipse.pdf
http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/ARM...e_programs.zip

or
http://www.newmicros.com/download/ap...ev_Eclipse.pdf
http://www.newmicros.com/store/produ...M/GNUfiles.zip

http://www.hitex.co.uk/arm/lpc2000book/index.html

One of new micros tini arm or plug an arm modules
http://www.newmicros.com/cgi-bin/sto...od&cat=tiniarm
http://www.newmicros.com/cgi-bin/sto...od&cat=plugarm

Or one of the many arm7 boards available from Olimex
(easier to buy from Sparkfun)
<http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?rec=0&shop=1&cart=429930&cat=73&keywords =&match_criteria=&searchCat=>


Alex

> I was also looking for an IDE.

Zeus is a language neutral IDE for the Windows platform:

http://www.zeusedit.com/features.html

It has features like class browsing, syntax highlighting,
smart indent, code folding, project/workspace management,
integrated version control etc and can be configured for
almost any language and any tool set.

Note: Zeus is shareware (45 day trial).

Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows