Power Supply Recommendation A8V??

Would appreciate some suggestions if possible, don't want to overload
anything but have sufficient supply. At the moment I'm running a 350W
and I'm sure it's not adequate.

Thanks for any help............

Computer Specs:
---------------

Field Value
Computer
Computer Type ACPI Uniprocessor PC
Operating System Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
OS Service Pack Service Pack 4
Internet Explorer 6.0.2800.1106 (IE 6.0 SP1)
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)

Motherboard
CPU Type AMD Athlon 64, 2400 MHz (12 x 200) 4000+
Motherboard Name Asus A8V (5 PCI, 1 AGP, 4 DDR DIMM, Audio, Gigabit
LAN)
Motherboard Chipset VIA K8T800Pro, AMD Hammer
System Memory 1024 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM)
BIOS Type AMI (01/23/07)
Communication Port Communications Port (COM1)

Display
Video Adapter ALL-IN-WONDER 9600 SERIES - (256 MB)
Video Adapter ALL-IN-WONDER 9600 SERIES - (256 MB)
3D Accelerator ATI Radeon 9600 (RV350)
Monitor Plug and Play Monitor [NoDB]

Multimedia
Audio Adapter Realtek ALC850 @ VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio Controller

Storage
IDE Controller VIA Bus Master IDE Controller
SCSI/RAID Controller NERO IMAGEDRIVE SCSI Controller
SCSI/RAID Controller Silicon Image SiI 0680 Ultra-133 Medley ATA Raid
Controller
SCSI/RAID Controller VIA SATA RAID Controller
SCSI/RAID Controller Win2000 Promise Ultra100 TX2 (tm) IDE Controller
Floppy Drive Floppy disk drive
Disk Drive Maxtor 6E040L0 (40 GB, 7200 RPM, Ultra-ATA/133)
Disk Drive WDC WD1200BB-00CAA0 (111 GB, IDE)
Disk Drive WDC WD1200BB-00CAA1 (111 GB, IDE)
Disk Drive WDC WD20 00JB-00DUA1 SCSI Disk Device (186 GB)
Disk Drive WDC WD12 00JB-00FUA0 SCSI Disk Device (111 GB)
Disk Drive WDC WD25 00JB-00FUA0 SCSI Disk Device (232 GB)
Optical Drive DVDRW IDE1108 SCSI CdRom Device (DVD+RW:8x/4x, DVD-
RW:8x/4x, DVD-ROM:12x, CD:40x/24x/40x DVD+RW/DVD-RW)
Optical Drive NERO IMAGEDRIVE2 SCSI CdRom Device (Virtual CD-ROM)
Optical Drive PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W4012A SCSI CdRom Device (40x/12x/40x
CD-RW)
Optical Drive PLEXTOR DVDR PX-708A SCSI CdRom Device (DVD+RW:8x/4x,
DVD-RW:4x/2x, DVD-ROM:12x, CD:40x/24x/40x DVD+RW/DVD-RW)
Optical Drive SONY DVD-ROM DDU1621 (16x/40x DVD-ROM)
SMART Hard Disks Status OK

Partitions
C: (FAT32) 19597 MB (12885 MB free)
D: (NTFS) 114470 MB (12024 MB free)
E: (FAT32) 114442 MB (29334 MB free)
F: (FAT32) 180506 MB (28012 MB free)
G: (FAT32) 10161 MB (5821 MB free)
H: (FAT32) 46653 MB (2580 MB free)
I: (FAT32) 67788 MB (67788 MB free)
K: (NTFS) 119240 MB (41824 MB free)
L: (FAT32) 10211 MB (7551 MB free)
M: (NTFS) 88655 MB (65963 MB free)
N: (FAT32) 20345 MB (7420 MB free)
S: (NTFS) 3255 MB (1702 MB free)
Total Size 776.7 GB (276.3 GB free)

Input
Keyboard Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
Mouse Microsoft PS/2 Mouse

Peripherals
Printer \\PAVILION\Lexmark Z700-P700 Series
Printer Lexmark X73
Printer Microsoft Office Document Image Writer
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
USB2 Controller VIA USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
USB Device Philips Composite USB Device
USB Device Philips HID Audio Controls
USB Device Philips USB Audio

DMI
DMI BIOS Vendor American Megatrends Inc.
DMI BIOS Version 0228
DMI System Manufacturer System manufacturer
DMI System Product System Product Name
DMI System Version System Version
DMI Motherboard Manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
DMI Motherboard Product A8V
DMI Motherboard Version Rev 1.xx
DMI Chassis Manufacturer Chassis Manufacture
DMI Chassis Version Chassis Version
DMI Total / Free Memory Sockets 4 / 2

ByTor wrote:
> Would appreciate some suggestions if possible, don't want to overload
> anything but have sufficient supply. At the moment I'm running a 350W
> and I'm sure it's not adequate.
>
> Thanks for any help............
>
> Computer Specs:
> ---------------
>
> Field Value
> Computer
> Computer Type ACPI Uniprocessor PC
> Operating System Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
> OS Service Pack Service Pack 4
> Internet Explorer 6.0.2800.1106 (IE 6.0 SP1)
> DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
>
> Motherboard
> CPU Type AMD Athlon 64, 2400 MHz (12 x 200) 4000+
> Motherboard Name Asus A8V (5 PCI, 1 AGP, 4 DDR DIMM, Audio, Gigabit
> LAN)
> Motherboard Chipset VIA K8T800Pro, AMD Hammer
> System Memory 1024 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM)
> BIOS Type AMI (01/23/07)
> Communication Port Communications Port (COM1)
>
> Display
> Video Adapter ALL-IN-WONDER 9600 SERIES - (256 MB)
> Video Adapter ALL-IN-WONDER 9600 SERIES - (256 MB)
> 3D Accelerator ATI Radeon 9600 (RV350)
> Monitor Plug and Play Monitor [NoDB]
>
> Multimedia
> Audio Adapter Realtek ALC850 @ VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio Controller
>
> Storage
> IDE Controller VIA Bus Master IDE Controller
> SCSI/RAID Controller NERO IMAGEDRIVE SCSI Controller
> SCSI/RAID Controller Silicon Image SiI 0680 Ultra-133 Medley ATA Raid
> Controller
> SCSI/RAID Controller VIA SATA RAID Controller
> SCSI/RAID Controller Win2000 Promise Ultra100 TX2 (tm) IDE Controller
> Floppy Drive Floppy disk drive
> Disk Drive Maxtor 6E040L0 (40 GB, 7200 RPM, Ultra-ATA/133)
> Disk Drive WDC WD1200BB-00CAA0 (111 GB, IDE)
> Disk Drive WDC WD1200BB-00CAA1 (111 GB, IDE)
> Disk Drive WDC WD20 00JB-00DUA1 SCSI Disk Device (186 GB)
> Disk Drive WDC WD12 00JB-00FUA0 SCSI Disk Device (111 GB)
> Disk Drive WDC WD25 00JB-00FUA0 SCSI Disk Device (232 GB)
> Optical Drive DVDRW IDE1108 SCSI CdRom Device (DVD+RW:8x/4x, DVD-
> RW:8x/4x, DVD-ROM:12x, CD:40x/24x/40x DVD+RW/DVD-RW)
> Optical Drive NERO IMAGEDRIVE2 SCSI CdRom Device (Virtual CD-ROM)
> Optical Drive PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W4012A SCSI CdRom Device (40x/12x/40x
> CD-RW)
> Optical Drive PLEXTOR DVDR PX-708A SCSI CdRom Device (DVD+RW:8x/4x,
> DVD-RW:4x/2x, DVD-ROM:12x, CD:40x/24x/40x DVD+RW/DVD-RW)
> Optical Drive SONY DVD-ROM DDU1621 (16x/40x DVD-ROM)
> SMART Hard Disks Status OK
>
> Partitions
> C: (FAT32) 19597 MB (12885 MB free)
> D: (NTFS) 114470 MB (12024 MB free)
> E: (FAT32) 114442 MB (29334 MB free)
> F: (FAT32) 180506 MB (28012 MB free)
> G: (FAT32) 10161 MB (5821 MB free)
> H: (FAT32) 46653 MB (2580 MB free)
> I: (FAT32) 67788 MB (67788 MB free)
> K: (NTFS) 119240 MB (41824 MB free)
> L: (FAT32) 10211 MB (7551 MB free)
> M: (NTFS) 88655 MB (65963 MB free)
> N: (FAT32) 20345 MB (7420 MB free)
> S: (NTFS) 3255 MB (1702 MB free)
> Total Size 776.7 GB (276.3 GB free)
>
> Input
> Keyboard Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
> Mouse Microsoft PS/2 Mouse
>
> Peripherals
> Printer \\PAVILION\Lexmark Z700-P700 Series
> Printer Lexmark X73
> Printer Microsoft Office Document Image Writer
> USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
> USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
> USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
> USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
> USB2 Controller VIA USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
> USB Device Philips Composite USB Device
> USB Device Philips HID Audio Controls
> USB Device Philips USB Audio
>
> DMI
> DMI BIOS Vendor American Megatrends Inc.
> DMI BIOS Version 0228
> DMI System Manufacturer System manufacturer
> DMI System Product System Product Name
> DMI System Version System Version
> DMI Motherboard Manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
> DMI Motherboard Product A8V
> DMI Motherboard Version Rev 1.xx
> DMI Chassis Manufacturer Chassis Manufacture
> DMI Chassis Version Chassis Version
> DMI Total / Free Memory Sockets 4 / 2
>

Processor 89W. (89W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 8.24A at 90% Vcore eff (assumed)
http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desk...=ADA4000DAA5BN

I cannot get exact power figures for every card, but the 9600 here
is only drawing 20W. Which means your card is probably not a glutton.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...ercons_10.html

And half of the video card power, comes from the 3.3V rail. Only
0.5A from the 12V rail:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video...wercons/t6.GIF

I count six disk drives above. During the first 10 seconds after
power on, drives can draw 2 to 2.5A a piece. Say 6 * 2.5A = 15A
to be safe. After the first 10 seconds has passed, they draw about
0.5A or 0.6A each on +12V. Which is 12V @ 3A.

I count five optical drives. Optical drives usually have a pretty
high "boiler plate" value, like 12V @ 1.5A and 5V @ 1.5A. A good
portion of the 12V might go into the motor, so if the drives don't
have media, at power up, then the 12V should be pretty light.

You have two power calculations to do. The first calculation is
for the first 10 seconds after power up. The second calculation
is when the system has been running for some time (all drives
are spun up).

During the first 10 seconds, the processor may not run at full
power. I've measured the thing running at half power. But you can
assume it runs at full power, just to be safe. I'd assume a
CD in one of the drives.

CPU + 6 * HDD + 1 * ODD + video + fans_estimated =
8.24A + (6 * 2.5A) + (1 * 1.5A) + 0.4A + 0.5A = 25.64A on 12V

After 10 seconds have passed, the HDDs don't draw nearly as much.
I'll assuming gaming is going on here, and the CPU is at 100%.
One CD loaded and spinning.

CPU + 6 * HDD + 1 * ODD + video + fans_estimated =
8.24A + (6 * 0.6A) + (1 * 1.5A) + 0.5A + 0.5A = 14.34A on 12V

Now, for fun, assume all opticals have a CD spinning. I don't
know why the CPU is maxxed out here, but I have to assume
something to complete the calculation.

CPU + 6 * HDD + 1 * ODD + video + fans_estimated =
8.24A + (6 * 0.6A) + (5 * 1.5A) + 0.4A + 0.5A = 20.34A on 12V

My assumption for the "unaccountable" bits of power, is the
combined 3.3V and 5V consumption is 50W. This would cover the
low voltage requirements of the video card, and cover the
stuff on the motherboard. I can throw in 6 * 1A for the hard
drive controllers. I can throw in 5 * 1.5A for the optical
controllers.

50W = 3.3V @ 14A + 5V @ 1A (just some basic consumption)
Now, calculate a new value for 5V, including the drives.
6 * 1A + 5 * 1.5A + (1A motherboard) = 5V @ 14.5A
And my assumption is 3.3V @ 14A, to power things like RAM
and the chipset.

So, that looks like
3.3V @ 14A, 5V @ 14.5A, 12V @ 14.34A (CPU busy, other HW idling)
3.3V @ 14A, 5V @ 14.5A, 12V @ 20.34A (CPU busy, all CDs busy)
3.3V @ 14A, 5V @ 14.5A, 12V @ 25.64A (CPU busy, HDD spinup)

Total power 425W during first 10 seconds (and is likely less
than that, in reality, as CPU could be at half power).

Daily average maybe 290W, and a bit less if the CPU is not
actually running at 100%. Cool N' Quiet can make quite a saving.

If you buy a dual rail supply, 12V2 is the CPU, and 12V1 is
the rest. During spinup, 8.24A max on 12V2. 25.64 - 8.24 = 17.4A
on 12V1. If you buy a single rail supply, then all it needs
is a 25.64 amp 12V rail, for the first 10 seconds.

This is almost enough for the job, and only the total power
during spinup is too much for it. It all depends on what is
assumed for the CPU power, as to whether this would tip over
or not. And that is the problem, with systems with a large
complement of drives - what to do about peak power, and buying
enough supply to handle it. The supply might be "mostly wasted",
once the 10 second peak is over. At least someone thought of that,
with SCSI drives, and it was possible with SCSI, to get sequential
spinup. But doing that with IDE would be a lot harder (as the
user doesn't control how the BIOS works).

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...103-455-02.JPG

I'd probably select something a little stronger than that.

This one just barely meets 12V1, but since the peak load only
lasts for 10 seconds, would be strong enough for later. This might
be as small as I'd go, spec-wise.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...101-111-03.JPG

One similar to the last one. 12V1 @ 18A should be fine. And no
problems expected with the lower voltage rails.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...103-512-03.jpg

Hope I didn't miss anything :-) That is a pile of hardware.

Paul

You certainly have a packed comp there :-)

If your comp runs without problem then you have enough power.
Random reboots can be a sign your PSU can't handle it.

Most PSUs have an internal fuse and will just shut down if you overload
them. Many computers don't need huge power supplies, SLI rigs need lots of
amps occasionally, but you don't need 500 watts to supply that, it comes
down to the construction of the PSU.

At start up is when your drives draw the most current, once running they
draw less.

Maybe run Prime95 or similar using the torture test that uses maximum power
to the CPU, or some intensive game demo.

However I would suggest you get a UPS or power filter.


"ByTor" <> wrote in message
news:SShFh.23769$...
>
> Would appreciate some suggestions if possible, don't want to overload
> anything but have sufficient supply. At the moment I'm running a 350W
> and I'm sure it's not adequate.
>
> Thanks for any help............
>
><snip>
>
>

In article <es517p$4d1$>, says...
> ByTor wrote:
> > Would appreciate some suggestions if possible, don't want to overload
> > anything but have sufficient supply. At the moment I'm running a 350W
> > and I'm sure it's not adequate.
> >
> > Thanks for any help............
> >
> > Computer Specs:
> > ---------------
> >
> > Field Value
> > Computer
> > Computer Type ACPI Uniprocessor PC
> > Operating System Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional
> > OS Service Pack Service Pack 4
> > Internet Explorer 6.0.2800.1106 (IE 6.0 SP1)
> > DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
> >
> > Motherboard
> > CPU Type AMD Athlon 64, 2400 MHz (12 x 200) 4000+
> > Motherboard Name Asus A8V (5 PCI, 1 AGP, 4 DDR DIMM, Audio, Gigabit
> > LAN)
> > Motherboard Chipset VIA K8T800Pro, AMD Hammer
> > System Memory 1024 MB (PC3200 DDR SDRAM)
> > BIOS Type AMI (01/23/07)
> > Communication Port Communications Port (COM1)
> >
> > Display
> > Video Adapter ALL-IN-WONDER 9600 SERIES - (256 MB)
> > Video Adapter ALL-IN-WONDER 9600 SERIES - (256 MB)
> > 3D Accelerator ATI Radeon 9600 (RV350)
> > Monitor Plug and Play Monitor [NoDB]
> >
> > Multimedia
> > Audio Adapter Realtek ALC850 @ VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio Controller
> >
> > Storage
> > IDE Controller VIA Bus Master IDE Controller
> > SCSI/RAID Controller NERO IMAGEDRIVE SCSI Controller
> > SCSI/RAID Controller Silicon Image SiI 0680 Ultra-133 Medley ATA Raid
> > Controller
> > SCSI/RAID Controller VIA SATA RAID Controller
> > SCSI/RAID Controller Win2000 Promise Ultra100 TX2 (tm) IDE Controller
> > Floppy Drive Floppy disk drive
> > Disk Drive Maxtor 6E040L0 (40 GB, 7200 RPM, Ultra-ATA/133)
> > Disk Drive WDC WD1200BB-00CAA0 (111 GB, IDE)
> > Disk Drive WDC WD1200BB-00CAA1 (111 GB, IDE)
> > Disk Drive WDC WD20 00JB-00DUA1 SCSI Disk Device (186 GB)
> > Disk Drive WDC WD12 00JB-00FUA0 SCSI Disk Device (111 GB)
> > Disk Drive WDC WD25 00JB-00FUA0 SCSI Disk Device (232 GB)
> > Optical Drive DVDRW IDE1108 SCSI CdRom Device (DVD+RW:8x/4x, DVD-
> > RW:8x/4x, DVD-ROM:12x, CD:40x/24x/40x DVD+RW/DVD-RW)
> > Optical Drive NERO IMAGEDRIVE2 SCSI CdRom Device (Virtual CD-ROM)
> > Optical Drive PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W4012A SCSI CdRom Device (40x/12x/40x
> > CD-RW)
> > Optical Drive PLEXTOR DVDR PX-708A SCSI CdRom Device (DVD+RW:8x/4x,
> > DVD-RW:4x/2x, DVD-ROM:12x, CD:40x/24x/40x DVD+RW/DVD-RW)
> > Optical Drive SONY DVD-ROM DDU1621 (16x/40x DVD-ROM)
> > SMART Hard Disks Status OK
> >
> > Partitions
> > C: (FAT32) 19597 MB (12885 MB free)
> > D: (NTFS) 114470 MB (12024 MB free)
> > E: (FAT32) 114442 MB (29334 MB free)
> > F: (FAT32) 180506 MB (28012 MB free)
> > G: (FAT32) 10161 MB (5821 MB free)
> > H: (FAT32) 46653 MB (2580 MB free)
> > I: (FAT32) 67788 MB (67788 MB free)
> > K: (NTFS) 119240 MB (41824 MB free)
> > L: (FAT32) 10211 MB (7551 MB free)
> > M: (NTFS) 88655 MB (65963 MB free)
> > N: (FAT32) 20345 MB (7420 MB free)
> > S: (NTFS) 3255 MB (1702 MB free)
> > Total Size 776.7 GB (276.3 GB free)
> >
> > Input
> > Keyboard Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
> > Mouse Microsoft PS/2 Mouse
> >
> > Peripherals
> > Printer \\PAVILION\Lexmark Z700-P700 Series
> > Printer Lexmark X73
> > Printer Microsoft Office Document Image Writer
> > USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
> > USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
> > USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
> > USB1 Controller VIA VT83C572 PCI-USB Controller
> > USB2 Controller VIA USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
> > USB Device Philips Composite USB Device
> > USB Device Philips HID Audio Controls
> > USB Device Philips USB Audio
> >
> > DMI
> > DMI BIOS Vendor American Megatrends Inc.
> > DMI BIOS Version 0228
> > DMI System Manufacturer System manufacturer
> > DMI System Product System Product Name
> > DMI System Version System Version
> > DMI Motherboard Manufacturer ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
> > DMI Motherboard Product A8V
> > DMI Motherboard Version Rev 1.xx
> > DMI Chassis Manufacturer Chassis Manufacture
> > DMI Chassis Version Chassis Version
> > DMI Total / Free Memory Sockets 4 / 2
> >
>
> Processor 89W. (89W/12V) * (1/0.90) = 8.24A at 90% Vcore eff (assumed)
> http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desk...=ADA4000DAA5BN
>
> I cannot get exact power figures for every card, but the 9600 here
> is only drawing 20W. Which means your card is probably not a glutton.
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...ercons_10.html
>
> And half of the video card power, comes from the 3.3V rail. Only
> 0.5A from the 12V rail:
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video...wercons/t6.GIF
>
> I count six disk drives above. During the first 10 seconds after
> power on, drives can draw 2 to 2.5A a piece. Say 6 * 2.5A = 15A
> to be safe. After the first 10 seconds has passed, they draw about
> 0.5A or 0.6A each on +12V. Which is 12V @ 3A.
>
> I count five optical drives. Optical drives usually have a pretty
> high "boiler plate" value, like 12V @ 1.5A and 5V @ 1.5A. A good
> portion of the 12V might go into the motor, so if the drives don't
> have media, at power up, then the 12V should be pretty light.
>
> You have two power calculations to do. The first calculation is
> for the first 10 seconds after power up. The second calculation
> is when the system has been running for some time (all drives
> are spun up).
>
> During the first 10 seconds, the processor may not run at full
> power. I've measured the thing running at half power. But you can
> assume it runs at full power, just to be safe. I'd assume a
> CD in one of the drives.
>
> CPU + 6 * HDD + 1 * ODD + video + fans_estimated =
> 8.24A + (6 * 2.5A) + (1 * 1.5A) + 0.4A + 0.5A = 25.64A on 12V
>
> After 10 seconds have passed, the HDDs don't draw nearly as much.
> I'll assuming gaming is going on here, and the CPU is at 100%.
> One CD loaded and spinning.
>
> CPU + 6 * HDD + 1 * ODD + video + fans_estimated =
> 8.24A + (6 * 0.6A) + (1 * 1.5A) + 0.5A + 0.5A = 14.34A on 12V
>
> Now, for fun, assume all opticals have a CD spinning. I don't
> know why the CPU is maxxed out here, but I have to assume
> something to complete the calculation.
>
> CPU + 6 * HDD + 1 * ODD + video + fans_estimated =
> 8.24A + (6 * 0.6A) + (5 * 1.5A) + 0.4A + 0.5A = 20.34A on 12V
>
> My assumption for the "unaccountable" bits of power, is the
> combined 3.3V and 5V consumption is 50W. This would cover the
> low voltage requirements of the video card, and cover the
> stuff on the motherboard. I can throw in 6 * 1A for the hard
> drive controllers. I can throw in 5 * 1.5A for the optical
> controllers.
>
> 50W = 3.3V @ 14A + 5V @ 1A (just some basic consumption)
> Now, calculate a new value for 5V, including the drives.
> 6 * 1A + 5 * 1.5A + (1A motherboard) = 5V @ 14.5A
> And my assumption is 3.3V @ 14A, to power things like RAM
> and the chipset.
>
> So, that looks like
> 3.3V @ 14A, 5V @ 14.5A, 12V @ 14.34A (CPU busy, other HW idling)
> 3.3V @ 14A, 5V @ 14.5A, 12V @ 20.34A (CPU busy, all CDs busy)
> 3.3V @ 14A, 5V @ 14.5A, 12V @ 25.64A (CPU busy, HDD spinup)
>
> Total power 425W during first 10 seconds (and is likely less
> than that, in reality, as CPU could be at half power).
>
> Daily average maybe 290W, and a bit less if the CPU is not
> actually running at 100%. Cool N' Quiet can make quite a saving.
>
> If you buy a dual rail supply, 12V2 is the CPU, and 12V1 is
> the rest. During spinup, 8.24A max on 12V2. 25.64 - 8.24 = 17.4A
> on 12V1. If you buy a single rail supply, then all it needs
> is a 25.64 amp 12V rail, for the first 10 seconds.
>
> This is almost enough for the job, and only the total power
> during spinup is too much for it. It all depends on what is
> assumed for the CPU power, as to whether this would tip over
> or not. And that is the problem, with systems with a large
> complement of drives - what to do about peak power, and buying
> enough supply to handle it. The supply might be "mostly wasted",
> once the 10 second peak is over. At least someone thought of that,
> with SCSI drives, and it was possible with SCSI, to get sequential
> spinup. But doing that with IDE would be a lot harder (as the
> user doesn't control how the BIOS works).
>
> http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...103-455-02.JPG
>
> I'd probably select something a little stronger than that.
>
> This one just barely meets 12V1, but since the peak load only
> lasts for 10 seconds, would be strong enough for later. This might
> be as small as I'd go, spec-wise.
>
> http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...101-111-03.JPG
>
> One similar to the last one. 12V1 @ 18A should be fine. And no
> problems expected with the lower voltage rails.
>
> http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...103-512-03.jpg
>
> Hope I didn't miss anything :-) That is a pile of hardware.
>
> Paul
>

WOW, thank you Paul for that incredible breakdown......While I am
somewhat of a computer geeko (have 8 of them in my home) I've never
quite got that involved in the power calculations.....Awesome
explanation & recommendations, thank you......

I've recently had a 400W power supply in this machine & it blew. I've
temp replaced it with a 350W (my daughter was not happy as I yanked it
from her machine) which is practicly brand new. On occassion before it
blew I would lose drives, opticals upon bootup occassionally & chalked
it up as possible bad splitters or insufficient power, re-seating the
power plugs seemed to have fixed the issue but only to return later,
finally the PS blew. I was always under the assumption that even 400W
was not sufficient as a friend once tried to tell me that being I had so
much hardware it wasn't. But it appears according to your calculations,
if I'm reading it right, 400W can be good. I don't want to buy let's say
an over 500W if it's not neccessary, than again I may add more HD's to
this system and remove some of the opticals.......which BTW I only have
4 physical opticals (3 burners & DVD only player), the other is a
Virtual drive installed by Nero. I also have 7 80mm fans blowing in this
machine also but I'm sure that uses very little power...... ;0)

I'm having issues now that I wonder if they are power related because my
CPU seems to be quite stressed when I'm running a particular program or
certain functions of it(actually the computer in general seems to be
dragging a bit). I download a lot of binaries from the newsgroups and
the decoding & updating header process damn near KILLS my CPU (runs at
100%) & memory reandering the machine damn near useless until it's
finished. I cleared the caches of the program & it still does the same
thing, it's a real pain in the ass and is becoming quite irratating. You
mentioned Cool & Quiet but for some reason when I enable it in the BIOS
the machine runs only at 1 ghz proc speed of 2.4ghz??? I have not been
able to figure out why this happens so I leave it disabled.

Sorry for the long winded story here but your info & help is enormously
helpful. I do have 2 other machines almost identical to this one but
lesser vid cards & not as many HD's......I plan on adding more & your
breakdown of the voltage involved is very very helpful.

In article <45e6ab15$0$31055$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-
01.iinet.net.au>, says...

> You certainly have a packed comp there :-)

You should see my others......... ;0)

> If your comp runs without problem then you have enough power.
> Random reboots can be a sign your PSU can't handle it.
>
> Most PSUs have an internal fuse and will just shut down if you overload
> them. Many computers don't need huge power supplies, SLI rigs need lots of
> amps occasionally, but you don't need 500 watts to supply that, it comes
> down to the construction of the PSU.

If you see my reply to Paul I am becoming a little concerned with my CPU
use in certain stressed areas of program use & am wondering if limited
power supply will endanger the life of my CPU???

> At start up is when your drives draw the most current, once running they
> draw less.
>
> Maybe run Prime95 or similar using the torture test that uses maximum power
> to the CPU, or some intensive game demo.

Great suggestion, prime95 saved my ass a few times with bad memory
sticks when I couldn't figure out why my files were corrupting copying
over my network........that was a head scratcher.....OY!!!! ;0)

> However I would suggest you get a UPS or power filter.

These I do have..... ;0) Too much money invested in my machines not to
have em....(LOL)

ByTor wrote:
>
> WOW, thank you Paul for that incredible breakdown......While I am
> somewhat of a computer geeko (have 8 of them in my home) I've never
> quite got that involved in the power calculations.....Awesome
> explanation & recommendations, thank you......
>
> I've recently had a 400W power supply in this machine & it blew. I've
> temp replaced it with a 350W (my daughter was not happy as I yanked it
> from her machine) which is practicly brand new. On occassion before it
> blew I would lose drives, opticals upon bootup occassionally & chalked
> it up as possible bad splitters or insufficient power, re-seating the
> power plugs seemed to have fixed the issue but only to return later,
> finally the PS blew. I was always under the assumption that even 400W
> was not sufficient as a friend once tried to tell me that being I had so
> much hardware it wasn't. But it appears according to your calculations,
> if I'm reading it right, 400W can be good. I don't want to buy let's say
> an over 500W if it's not neccessary, than again I may add more HD's to
> this system and remove some of the opticals.......which BTW I only have
> 4 physical opticals (3 burners & DVD only player), the other is a
> Virtual drive installed by Nero. I also have 7 80mm fans blowing in this
> machine also but I'm sure that uses very little power...... ;0)
>
> I'm having issues now that I wonder if they are power related because my
> CPU seems to be quite stressed when I'm running a particular program or
> certain functions of it(actually the computer in general seems to be
> dragging a bit). I download a lot of binaries from the newsgroups and
> the decoding & updating header process damn near KILLS my CPU (runs at
> 100%) & memory reandering the machine damn near useless until it's
> finished. I cleared the caches of the program & it still does the same
> thing, it's a real pain in the ass and is becoming quite irratating. You
> mentioned Cool & Quiet but for some reason when I enable it in the BIOS
> the machine runs only at 1 ghz proc speed of 2.4ghz??? I have not been
> able to figure out why this happens so I leave it disabled.
>
> Sorry for the long winded story here but your info & help is enormously
> helpful. I do have 2 other machines almost identical to this one but
> lesser vid cards & not as many HD's......I plan on adding more & your
> breakdown of the voltage involved is very very helpful.
>

I think I'd try for something bigger than 350W. A 500W that has enough
current on 12V1, would cover the power required, and the current at startup.

For dual rail supplies, companies have been pretty good at limiting the
size of 12V1 and 12V2 to 20 amps max. So it is hard to get much margin
in terms of peak power, with the commodity dual rail supplies. The ones
with 18A output are getting about as large as those can get.

There is a more expensive tier of power supplies, that tend not to follow
the rules about max power per output. For example, PCPowerandCooling makes
the Silencer 750, which is labelled as using a single rail for all 12V
output, and something like 60A of current. Many other exotic power supply
makers have not been as honest - the labels on some of the other >500W
supplies claim multiple separate outputs, yet when a review site lifts the
lid, they only find a single rail (and no current limiting circuitry to
apply the current limits printed on the label). This makes it hard to
recommend supplies, as the documentation is not specific enough about
how they work.

One other thing to look for in a supply, is the efficiency rating. There
are some supplies rated at 80% plus efficiency. The benefit of such supplies,
is the insides of the supply don't get as hot. This is important if you
keep a sustained high level of power consumption on the machine. The
Seasonic S12 600W might have been one of the first series to do a good
job of that. Seasonic has also manufactured supplies for other companies
as well. These supplies are more expensive (and hard to say whether that
is justified in parts cost or not), but depending on the price of your
electricity, might pay off after enough years have passed.

Cool and Quiet dynamically adjusts the performance level of the processor
according to the load. You could try running Prime95 or CPUburn or whatever
you know puts a good load on the CPU, and then check the speed. And if you
need yet another utility, something like RMclock might display what is going
on.

http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml

I don't know what to tell you with regard to the decoding thing. But if
a process uses all the system memory, then you may end up swapping out
to disk, and that cannot be good for performance. Have you looked at
Task Manager and what processes are running, for any hints ?

Paul

In article <es6ut5$8c5$>, says...
> ByTor wrote:
> >
> > WOW, thank you Paul for that incredible breakdown......While I am
> > somewhat of a computer geeko (have 8 of them in my home) I've never
> > quite got that involved in the power calculations.....Awesome
> > explanation & recommendations, thank you......
> >
> > I've recently had a 400W power supply in this machine & it blew. I've
> > temp replaced it with a 350W (my daughter was not happy as I yanked it
> > from her machine) which is practicly brand new. On occassion before it
> > blew I would lose drives, opticals upon bootup occassionally & chalked
> > it up as possible bad splitters or insufficient power, re-seating the
> > power plugs seemed to have fixed the issue but only to return later,
> > finally the PS blew. I was always under the assumption that even 400W
> > was not sufficient as a friend once tried to tell me that being I had so
> > much hardware it wasn't. But it appears according to your calculations,
> > if I'm reading it right, 400W can be good. I don't want to buy let's say
> > an over 500W if it's not neccessary, than again I may add more HD's to
> > this system and remove some of the opticals.......which BTW I only have
> > 4 physical opticals (3 burners & DVD only player), the other is a
> > Virtual drive installed by Nero. I also have 7 80mm fans blowing in this
> > machine also but I'm sure that uses very little power...... ;0)
> >
> > I'm having issues now that I wonder if they are power related because my
> > CPU seems to be quite stressed when I'm running a particular program or
> > certain functions of it(actually the computer in general seems to be
> > dragging a bit). I download a lot of binaries from the newsgroups and
> > the decoding & updating header process damn near KILLS my CPU (runs at
> > 100%) & memory reandering the machine damn near useless until it's
> > finished. I cleared the caches of the program & it still does the same
> > thing, it's a real pain in the ass and is becoming quite irratating. You
> > mentioned Cool & Quiet but for some reason when I enable it in the BIOS
> > the machine runs only at 1 ghz proc speed of 2.4ghz??? I have not been
> > able to figure out why this happens so I leave it disabled.
> >
> > Sorry for the long winded story here but your info & help is enormously
> > helpful. I do have 2 other machines almost identical to this one but
> > lesser vid cards & not as many HD's......I plan on adding more & your
> > breakdown of the voltage involved is very very helpful.
> >
>
> I think I'd try for something bigger than 350W. A 500W that has enough
> current on 12V1, would cover the power required, and the current at startup.

Exactly what I'll be looking for, BIG thank you for the suggestion.

> For dual rail supplies, companies have been pretty good at limiting the
> size of 12V1 and 12V2 to 20 amps max. So it is hard to get much margin
> in terms of peak power, with the commodity dual rail supplies. The ones
> with 18A output are getting about as large as those can get.

Great, thanks for the heads up.

> There is a more expensive tier of power supplies, that tend not to follow
> the rules about max power per output. For example, PCPowerandCooling makes
> the Silencer 750, which is labelled as using a single rail for all 12V
> output, and something like 60A of current. Many other exotic power supply
> makers have not been as honest - the labels on some of the other >500W
> supplies claim multiple separate outputs, yet when a review site lifts the
> lid, they only find a single rail (and no current limiting circuitry to
> apply the current limits printed on the label). This makes it hard to
> recommend supplies, as the documentation is not specific enough about
> how they work.

My friend I discussed earlier swears up & down about PCPower & Cooling,
gets all his supplies from there.....Again, thanks for the caution in
what to look for.

> One other thing to look for in a supply, is the efficiency rating. There
> are some supplies rated at 80% plus efficiency. The benefit of such supplies,
> is the insides of the supply don't get as hot. This is important if you
> keep a sustained high level of power consumption on the machine. The
> Seasonic S12 600W might have been one of the first series to do a good
> job of that. Seasonic has also manufactured supplies for other companies
> as well. These supplies are more expensive (and hard to say whether that
> is justified in parts cost or not), but depending on the price of your
> electricity, might pay off after enough years have passed.

Excellent point....I have thought about heat factors but never realy
considered which is better.

> Cool and Quiet dynamically adjusts the performance level of the processor
> according to the load. You could try running Prime95 or CPUburn or whatever
> you know puts a good load on the CPU, and then check the speed. And if you
> need yet another utility, something like RMclock might display what is going
> on.
>
> http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml

This is a BIG Duuuuuuuh on my part. I did not realize that it actually
**fluctuates** as to why I assumed it only ran at 1000MHz.....I watched
the ASUS Cool & Quiet prog and watched it peek up & down so it does
work. Guess I'll chalk it up as a brain fart on my part..... ;0)

> I don't know what to tell you with regard to the decoding thing. But if
> a process uses all the system memory, then you may end up swapping out
> to disk, and that cannot be good for performance. Have you looked at
> Task Manager and what processes are running, for any hints ?
>
> Paul

I moniter my background progs very carefully and hardly let anything run
that's not real important. I even created a seperate partition just to
hold the swap file, it helped a little bit. With my previous PS I don't
remember this issue being as bad as it is now as to why I assumed it was
a power issue. I guess when I get the new PS & than it works much better
it'll answer the question. I suppose ya may not doing much binary
downloading but the decoding process is very very intense when updating
a million plus headers & grabbing individual files.....very very intense
on the CPU & memory. But hey I'm not complaining as I get lots of good
stuff....... ;0)

Paul, seriously, thank you for taking the time & helping out, your info
& knowledge is right on the money.........I'll keep ya posted on my end
results.

In article <aTdGh.16$E%>,
says...
> In article <es6ut5$8c5$>, says...
> > ByTor wrote:
> > >
> > > WOW, thank you Paul for that incredible breakdown......While I am
> > > somewhat of a computer geeko (have 8 of them in my home) I've never
> > > quite got that involved in the power calculations.....Awesome
> > > explanation & recommendations, thank you......
> > >
> > > I've recently had a 400W power supply in this machine & it blew. I've
> > > temp replaced it with a 350W (my daughter was not happy as I yanked it
> > > from her machine) which is practicly brand new. On occassion before it
> > > blew I would lose drives, opticals upon bootup occassionally & chalked
> > > it up as possible bad splitters or insufficient power, re-seating the
> > > power plugs seemed to have fixed the issue but only to return later,
> > > finally the PS blew. I was always under the assumption that even 400W
> > > was not sufficient as a friend once tried to tell me that being I had so
> > > much hardware it wasn't. But it appears according to your calculations,
> > > if I'm reading it right, 400W can be good. I don't want to buy let's say
> > > an over 500W if it's not neccessary, than again I may add more HD's to
> > > this system and remove some of the opticals.......which BTW I only have
> > > 4 physical opticals (3 burners & DVD only player), the other is a
> > > Virtual drive installed by Nero. I also have 7 80mm fans blowing in this
> > > machine also but I'm sure that uses very little power...... ;0)
> > >
> > > I'm having issues now that I wonder if they are power related because my
> > > CPU seems to be quite stressed when I'm running a particular program or
> > > certain functions of it(actually the computer in general seems to be
> > > dragging a bit). I download a lot of binaries from the newsgroups and
> > > the decoding & updating header process damn near KILLS my CPU (runs at
> > > 100%) & memory reandering the machine damn near useless until it's
> > > finished. I cleared the caches of the program & it still does the same
> > > thing, it's a real pain in the ass and is becoming quite irratating. You
> > > mentioned Cool & Quiet but for some reason when I enable it in the BIOS
> > > the machine runs only at 1 ghz proc speed of 2.4ghz??? I have not been
> > > able to figure out why this happens so I leave it disabled.
> > >
> > > Sorry for the long winded story here but your info & help is enormously
> > > helpful. I do have 2 other machines almost identical to this one but
> > > lesser vid cards & not as many HD's......I plan on adding more & your
> > > breakdown of the voltage involved is very very helpful.
> > >
> >
> > I think I'd try for something bigger than 350W. A 500W that has enough
> > current on 12V1, would cover the power required, and the current at startup.
>
> Exactly what I'll be looking for, BIG thank you for the suggestion.
>
> > For dual rail supplies, companies have been pretty good at limiting the
> > size of 12V1 and 12V2 to 20 amps max. So it is hard to get much margin
> > in terms of peak power, with the commodity dual rail supplies. The ones
> > with 18A output are getting about as large as those can get.
>
> Great, thanks for the heads up.
>
> > There is a more expensive tier of power supplies, that tend not to follow
> > the rules about max power per output. For example, PCPowerandCooling makes
> > the Silencer 750, which is labelled as using a single rail for all 12V
> > output, and something like 60A of current. Many other exotic power supply
> > makers have not been as honest - the labels on some of the other >500W
> > supplies claim multiple separate outputs, yet when a review site lifts the
> > lid, they only find a single rail (and no current limiting circuitry to
> > apply the current limits printed on the label). This makes it hard to
> > recommend supplies, as the documentation is not specific enough about
> > how they work.
>
> My friend I discussed earlier swears up & down about PCPower & Cooling,
> gets all his supplies from there.....Again, thanks for the caution in
> what to look for.
>
> > One other thing to look for in a supply, is the efficiency rating. There
> > are some supplies rated at 80% plus efficiency. The benefit of such supplies,
> > is the insides of the supply don't get as hot. This is important if you
> > keep a sustained high level of power consumption on the machine. The
> > Seasonic S12 600W might have been one of the first series to do a good
> > job of that. Seasonic has also manufactured supplies for other companies
> > as well. These supplies are more expensive (and hard to say whether that
> > is justified in parts cost or not), but depending on the price of your
> > electricity, might pay off after enough years have passed.
>
> Excellent point....I have thought about heat factors but never realy
> considered which is better.
>
> > Cool and Quiet dynamically adjusts the performance level of the processor
> > according to the load. You could try running Prime95 or CPUburn or whatever
> > you know puts a good load on the CPU, and then check the speed. And if you
> > need yet another utility, something like RMclock might display what is going
> > on.
> >
> > http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml
>
> This is a BIG Duuuuuuuh on my part. I did not realize that it actually
> **fluctuates** as to why I assumed it only ran at 1000MHz.....I watched
> the ASUS Cool & Quiet prog and watched it peek up & down so it does
> work. Guess I'll chalk it up as a brain fart on my part..... ;0)
>
> > I don't know what to tell you with regard to the decoding thing. But if
> > a process uses all the system memory, then you may end up swapping out
> > to disk, and that cannot be good for performance. Have you looked at
> > Task Manager and what processes are running, for any hints ?
> >
> > Paul
>
> I moniter my background progs very carefully and hardly let anything run
> that's not real important. I even created a seperate partition just to
> hold the swap file, it helped a little bit. With my previous PS I don't
> remember this issue being as bad as it is now as to why I assumed it was
> a power issue. I guess when I get the new PS & than it works much better
> it'll answer the question. I suppose ya may not doing much binary
> downloading but the decoding process is very very intense when updating
> a million plus headers & grabbing individual files.....very very intense
> on the CPU & memory. But hey I'm not complaining as I get lots of good
> stuff....... ;0)
>
> Paul, seriously, thank you for taking the time & helping out, your info
> & knowledge is right on the money.........I'll keep ya posted on my end
> results.

Just a thought here....If you had to narrow it down for me which would
you select? I was actually looking into the Silencer 610 EPS12V....the
750 seems a bit much.....I kinda got mixed info from the site on dual
rail though unless I'm reading it wrong.....But the 610 does come
recommended for the A8V though.

Would copper be better?? (I'm sure it would but how much a difference it
would make I'm not sure)

ByTor wrote:
> In article <aTdGh.16$E%>,
> says...
>
> Just a thought here....If you had to narrow it down for me which would
> you select? I was actually looking into the Silencer 610 EPS12V....the
> 750 seems a bit much.....I kinda got mixed info from the site on dual
> rail though unless I'm reading it wrong.....But the 610 does come
> recommended for the A8V though.
>
> Would copper be better?? (I'm sure it would but how much a difference it
> would make I'm not sure)
>

The copper refers to a copper colored finish (paint job ?) on the outside
of the PSU casing. Purely a matter of taste. The cooling mainly comes
from the heatsinks and fan used.

Looking at the specs, it seems to be designed with the same thinking in
mind as the 750W. It is still a single 12V output, feeding all the
wiring, so no ambiguity about how it works. Take a look around and see
if anyone has reviewed it yet.

Paul

In article <essune$178$>, says...
> ByTor wrote:
> > In article <aTdGh.16$E%>,
> > says...
> >
> > Just a thought here....If you had to narrow it down for me which would
> > you select? I was actually looking into the Silencer 610 EPS12V....the
> > 750 seems a bit much.....I kinda got mixed info from the site on dual
> > rail though unless I'm reading it wrong.....But the 610 does come
> > recommended for the A8V though.
> >
> > Would copper be better?? (I'm sure it would but how much a difference it
> > would make I'm not sure)
> >
>
> The copper refers to a copper colored finish (paint job ?) on the outside
> of the PSU casing. Purely a matter of taste. The cooling mainly comes
> from the heatsinks and fan used.
>
> Looking at the specs, it seems to be designed with the same thinking in
> mind as the 750W. It is still a single 12V output, feeding all the
> wiring, so no ambiguity about how it works. Take a look around and see
> if anyone has reviewed it yet.
>
> Paul
>

Thanks again Paul, have gotten some good info on the PS & looks good.
I'll be ordering it very soon........

BTW: Turns out the decoding, slamming the memory & CPU, appears to be a
cache issue with the program I use......I usually run this prog on 3
different machines & once in awhile I'll transfer the cache folders
between them & reg entiries so they may have corrupted along the way.
Had a wierd situation with a HDrive though, HDTach reported the
read/access portion as horrendously slow.....I pulled it & replaced with
another drive from another machine & it works perfect now, I put the
drive in another machine and now it works fine????? Oh well, chalk it up
as another computer mystery.........Thanks for **all** your help I
really appreciate it!