Are RAMsinks worth a damn?

I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I
can OC the **** out of the core.
Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory?
I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they
would be worth installing.

Thanks for any opinions,
Rick

"dorkus.erectus" <> wrote:

>I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
>I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I
>can OC the **** out of the core.
>Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory?
>I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they
>would be worth installing.
>
>Thanks for any opinions,
>Rick
>
>

Yes, it's worth it. I was able to OC my memory on my Ti4600 another
30Mghz. From 720 to 750. Added 125 points to my 3DMark scrores.
Card runs cooler too.

Its largely a placebo effect for mainboard memory:
This type of memory does not usally fail because it is hot. It fails because you are shortening the
read-hold-write cycles so far that the memory flip-flops do not have enough time to get to a stable
state, and start to lose data. So its a timing issue, not a heat issue, and the memory is never too
hot to touch (try it and see). A blue anodized 'heat spreader' is just a good looking wrapper to
make your memory look nice. Cool for window PCs, but thats about it.

For graphic memory, its perhaps less clearcut, because this grade of memory *does* get somewhat hot,
because the same memory bits are constantly and rapidly accessed. As a rule of thumb, if a chip
gets too hot to touch when it is being max stable OC'ed, then it is being limited by heat, not
timing (max stable surface temp of modern silicon is around 60-70 degC - too hot to touch
comfortably). The memory on my 9800 pro does not get this hot, so I assumed it would not benefit
from cooling, and didnt bother with ramsinks.

There is variability in memory, and yours may be different - touch it and see is the best advice.
if its too hot for you to be able to comfortably press your finger down on the chip and leave it,
then that chip's performance may be limited by heat. If its simply warm (40-50degC) when you OC it
to just below the point where it fails, then heat is not a factor in that failure.

the biggest effect on additional performance by far will be the arctic cooler (+25% better on my rig
in terms of clocks, but in real terms, its a case of more constant frame rates than faster frame
rates). The law of dimishing returns will certainly kick in for the ramsinks, and will be at best,
not noticeable (0- 5% are the sort of figures I hear about on the NGs). 720 to 750 seems like its
within this ballpark, and I'd spend the money elsewhere if performance is the main concern.

Small 3DMark gains are a moot point. I got 100 3DMarks just by moving from cat 4.4 to 4.5. I didnt
notice the extra perfrormance, but at least it was free

S



EGA wrote:
> "dorkus.erectus" <> wrote:
>
>> I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
>> I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly
>> so I can OC the **** out of the core.
>> Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory?
>> I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering
>> if they would be worth installing.
>>
>> Thanks for any opinions,
>> Rick
>>
>>
>
> Yes, it's worth it. I was able to OC my memory on my Ti4600 another
> 30Mghz. From 720 to 750. Added 125 points to my 3DMark scrores.
> Card runs cooler too.

"Sham B" <> wrote in message
news:40c96331$0$20824$ t.net...
> Its largely a placebo effect for mainboard memory:
> This type of memory does not usally fail because it is hot. It fails
> because you are shortening the
> read-hold-write cycles so far that the memory flip-flops do not have
> enough time to get to a stable
> state, and start to lose data. So its a timing issue, not a heat issue,
> and the memory is never too
> hot to touch (try it and see). A blue anodized 'heat spreader' is just a
> good looking wrapper to
> make your memory look nice. Cool for window PCs, but thats about it.
>
> For graphic memory, its perhaps less clearcut, because this grade of
> memory *does* get somewhat hot,
> because the same memory bits are constantly and rapidly accessed. As a
> rule of thumb, if a chip
> gets too hot to touch when it is being max stable OC'ed, then it is being
> limited by heat, not
> timing (max stable surface temp of modern silicon is around 60-70 degC -
> too hot to touch
> comfortably). The memory on my 9800 pro does not get this hot, so I
> assumed it would not benefit
> from cooling, and didnt bother with ramsinks.
>
> There is variability in memory, and yours may be different - touch it and
> see is the best advice.
> if its too hot for you to be able to comfortably press your finger down on
> the chip and leave it,
> then that chip's performance may be limited by heat. If its simply warm
> (40-50degC) when you OC it
> to just below the point where it fails, then heat is not a factor in that
> failure.
>
> the biggest effect on additional performance by far will be the arctic
> cooler (+25% better on my rig
> in terms of clocks, but in real terms, its a case of more constant frame
> rates than faster frame
> rates). The law of dimishing returns will certainly kick in for the
> ramsinks, and will be at best,
> not noticeable (0- 5% are the sort of figures I hear about on the NGs).
> 720 to 750 seems like its
> within this ballpark, and I'd spend the money elsewhere if performance is
> the main concern.
>
> Small 3DMark gains are a moot point. I got 100 3DMarks just by moving
> from cat 4.4 to 4.5. I didnt
> notice the extra perfrormance, but at least it was free
>
> S
>
>
>
> EGA wrote:
>> "dorkus.erectus" <> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
>>> I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly
>>> so I can OC the **** out of the core.
>>> Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory?
>>> I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering
>>> if they would be worth installing.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any opinions,
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, it's worth it. I was able to OC my memory on my Ti4600 another
>> 30Mghz. From 720 to 750. Added 125 points to my 3DMark scrores.
>> Card runs cooler too.
>

A MOS transistor has a maximum operating frequency. The maximum operating
frequency drops as you increase temperature, even if it does not burn your
fingers. A MOS device at -40 degrees is faster than the same transistor
at -39 degrees. Is it a timing issue or a heat issue!!? It is the maximum
operating frequency issue that is a function of temperature.

If the chip temperature is much higher than the case air temperature, it is
very beneficial to add a heat sink since the difference in temperature
results in heat transfer and makes the chip cooler. On the other hand, if
the chip is almost at the case air temperature, a heat sink is not going to
make much difference. In fact, in such cases, if the sink is not mounted
perfectly, it may actually result in an increase in temperature by impeding
the heat transfer.

I have got the impression, from my card, that overclocking the graphics DDR
does not improve the fps as much as overclocking the core does. That may be
why some online overclocking guides I have seen suggest to overclock the
core first and find its max, and then, overclock the DDR. They both
generate heat and contribute to increasing the temperature of the case.
They both use the same case air to cool down. If you overclock your DDR too
much, you will have to reduce your core frequency to get stable, and vise
versa.

Overall, I agree with you that adding a heatsink to graphics DDR may not
give you as much improvement for the money you spend. But, I suspect, this
may vary depending on card and case cooling.

Regards

"dorkus.erectus" <> wrote in
<is8yc.11066$>:

>I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
>I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so
>I can OC the **** out of the core.
>Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory?
>I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if
>they would be worth installing.
>
>Thanks for any opinions,
>Rick
>
>
>

Ramsinks self do nothing, they just store heat. What does helps is air
flowing over the card, thus the ramsinks..that will allow the ramsinks to
lose the excess heat to the air and keep on drawing heat out of the memory.

And yes ramsinks help but in some cases not much since there is not enough
airflow in such cases.

A ramsink self can't help much without airflow....

Fact is, when DDR memory first appeared a couple of years ago, it really did
used to get hot, this is when RAM sinks became fashionable. Provided your
case can provide a decent flow and you use more recent DDR memory, RAM sinks
are usually unnecessary.

CrimsonLiar

"dorkus.erectus" <> wrote in message
news:is8yc.11066$...
> I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
> I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I
> can OC the **** out of the core.
> Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory?
> I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if
they
> would be worth installing.
>
> Thanks for any opinions,
> Rick
>
>
>

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:01:40 -0700, EGA <EGA@> wrote:

>"dorkus.erectus" <> wrote:
>
>>I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
>>I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I
>>can OC the **** out of the core.
>>Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory?
>>I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if they
>>would be worth installing.
>>
>>Thanks for any opinions,
>>Rick
>>
>>
>
>Yes, it's worth it. I was able to OC my memory on my Ti4600 another
>30Mghz. From 720 to 750. Added 125 points to my 3DMark scrores.
>Card runs cooler too.

120 3DMark points.... Like that would be noticable?

"dorkus.erectus" <> wrote in message
news:is8yc.11066$...
> I have a Sapphire 9800Pro/128MB.
> I'll be installing an Arctic-Cooler VGA Silencer this weekend mainly so I
> can OC the **** out of the core.
> Do RAMsinks really help at all as far as OC'ing the memory?
> I already have pretty good air cooling in the case and am wondering if
they
> would be worth installing.
>
> Thanks for any opinions,
> Rick
>
>
>


Thanks all.
I think I'll skip the ramsinks.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:23:10 +0100, "CrimsonLiar" <>
wrote:

>Fact is, when DDR memory first appeared a couple of years ago, it really did
>used to get hot, this is when RAM sinks became fashionable. Provided your
>case can provide a decent flow and you use more recent DDR memory, RAM sinks
>are usually unnecessary.

???

DDR? Nooo... or doubtful... The RD-RAM typically came with
heatsinks because of their high speed (and high latency). I've yet to
buy and install a RAM-SYND DDR stick (I know they make them) - A
friend bitched about wanting me to ADD the heatsinks to his DDR that
he bought from Newegg... I say WHY? I did anyways... oh well.


- - - - -
Remember: In the USA - it is dangeroud to draw or write about Heir Bush in a negative way. The police or SS are called, people threaten to kill you. (What country is this again?)

- 15yr old boy in Washington was disciplined for drawing such images.
- White House blows cover of an undercover agent because her husband said there were no WMD (before the USA started the war) - her job was finding terrorist. (This makes sense?)
God bless the land of the free. Where you can burn the Constitution... Ashcroft does it every day.

9800pro's come with DDR ram not RD-RAM.

Crimson Liar

"Darthy" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:23:10 +0100, "CrimsonLiar" <>
> wrote:
>
> >Fact is, when DDR memory first appeared a couple of years ago, it really
did
> >used to get hot, this is when RAM sinks became fashionable. Provided
your
> >case can provide a decent flow and you use more recent DDR memory, RAM
sinks
> >are usually unnecessary.
>
> ???
>
> DDR? Nooo... or doubtful... The RD-RAM typically came with
> heatsinks because of their high speed (and high latency). I've yet to
> buy and install a RAM-SYND DDR stick (I know they make them) - A
> friend bitched about wanting me to ADD the heatsinks to his DDR that
> he bought from Newegg... I say WHY? I did anyways... oh well.
>
>
> - - - - -
> Remember: In the USA - it is dangeroud to draw or write about Heir Bush in
a negative way. The police or SS are called, people threaten to kill you.
(What country is this again?)
>
> - 15yr old boy in Washington was disciplined for drawing such images.
> - White House blows cover of an undercover agent because her husband said
there were no WMD (before the USA started the war) - her job was finding
terrorist. (This makes sense?)
> God bless the land of the free. Where you can burn the Constitution...
Ashcroft does it every day.