Re: Damn HP!!!

> Just ran across this article
>
http://www.alotofthings.com/inkjetin...arketplace.htm
> some HP (and Lexmark) cartridges have the expiration dates burned in
> at the time of manufacture, not the time of installation.

I think there might be two dates 'burned' into the HP 14 c5010a ink
cartridges.
1. FINAL EXPIRATION DATE (dies 4.5 years from date of manufacture)
2. IN-SERVICE DATE (dies 2.5 years from date of initial installation)
The "actual" HP14 ink cartrdige expiry date is the first of these two!

I think the 4.5 year expiry date is burned in at manufacture time;
I think the 30-month expiry date is burned in when you install it.

I don't think HP burns in a serial number;
I think it burns the actual date!

Witness these facts:
Today, Christmas Eve, my color cartridge said it was out of ink.
When I put a second cartridge in, it said the SAME THING even though
the cartridge was full of OEM ink (it was only used ONCE on the day I
bought it). Same with a third OEM full HP 14 color ink cartridge.

I infer that the 30-months contiguous service is burned into the smart
chip at the time of install.

Interesting, since all three cartridges were put in service on the same
day in the same machine, and all three are saying "out of ink" even
though only one can possibly be out of ink, I suspect the date burned
into each cartridge is the SAME DATE (and not some unique serial
number).

That is, I'm surmising, the HP D145 printer is seeing the second and
third ink cartridges EXACTLY the same as the first (it appears). If I
had only put them in service on a DIFFERENT DATE, then perhaps it would
recognize the second and third cartridges as different.

In summary, I think the HP D145 printer is assuming the three ink
cartridges are one and the same because all the HP ojd145 "sees" is
the same date burned into the smart chip on all three (which were put
in initial service in the same machine on that same date months ago).
Does this make any sense?

Not really !!!
"Orak Listalavostok" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> > Just ran across this article
> >
> http://www.alotofthings.com/inkjetin...arketplace.htm
> > some HP (and Lexmark) cartridges have the expiration dates burned in
> > at the time of manufacture, not the time of installation.
>
> I think there might be two dates 'burned' into the HP 14 c5010a ink
> cartridges.
> 1. FINAL EXPIRATION DATE (dies 4.5 years from date of manufacture)
> 2. IN-SERVICE DATE (dies 2.5 years from date of initial installation)
> The "actual" HP14 ink cartrdige expiry date is the first of these two!
>
> I think the 4.5 year expiry date is burned in at manufacture time;
> I think the 30-month expiry date is burned in when you install it.
>
> I don't think HP burns in a serial number;
> I think it burns the actual date!
>
> Witness these facts:
> Today, Christmas Eve, my color cartridge said it was out of ink.
> When I put a second cartridge in, it said the SAME THING even though
> the cartridge was full of OEM ink (it was only used ONCE on the day I
> bought it). Same with a third OEM full HP 14 color ink cartridge.
>
> I infer that the 30-months contiguous service is burned into the smart
> chip at the time of install.
>
> Interesting, since all three cartridges were put in service on the same
> day in the same machine, and all three are saying "out of ink" even
> though only one can possibly be out of ink, I suspect the date burned
> into each cartridge is the SAME DATE (and not some unique serial
> number).
>
> That is, I'm surmising, the HP D145 printer is seeing the second and
> third ink cartridges EXACTLY the same as the first (it appears). If I
> had only put them in service on a DIFFERENT DATE, then perhaps it would
> recognize the second and third cartridges as different.
>
> In summary, I think the HP D145 printer is assuming the three ink
> cartridges are one and the same because all the HP ojd145 "sees" is
> the same date burned into the smart chip on all three (which were put
> in initial service in the same machine on that same date months ago).
> Does this make any sense?
>

Before you burst a blood vessel (which might solve the problem of the
magenta ink ;-)) I think HP may have a policy of replacing outdated
full or nearly full cartridges.

I know someone here will have your answer, if you are patient. I would
not remove the battery, especially f it is precarious, until at least
hearing from someone who knows HP's policy.

Art



Orak Listalavostok wrote:

>>Just ran across this article
>>
>
> http://www.alotofthings.com/inkjetin...arketplace.htm
>
>>some HP (and Lexmark) cartridges have the expiration dates burned in
>>at the time of manufacture, not the time of installation.
>
>
> I think there might be two dates 'burned' into the HP 14 c5010a ink
> cartridges.
> 1. FINAL EXPIRATION DATE (dies 4.5 years from date of manufacture)
> 2. IN-SERVICE DATE (dies 2.5 years from date of initial installation)
> The "actual" HP14 ink cartrdige expiry date is the first of these two!
>
> I think the 4.5 year expiry date is burned in at manufacture time;
> I think the 30-month expiry date is burned in when you install it.
>
> I don't think HP burns in a serial number;
> I think it burns the actual date!
>
> Witness these facts:
> Today, Christmas Eve, my color cartridge said it was out of ink.
> When I put a second cartridge in, it said the SAME THING even though
> the cartridge was full of OEM ink (it was only used ONCE on the day I
> bought it). Same with a third OEM full HP 14 color ink cartridge.
>
> I infer that the 30-months contiguous service is burned into the smart
> chip at the time of install.
>
> Interesting, since all three cartridges were put in service on the same
> day in the same machine, and all three are saying "out of ink" even
> though only one can possibly be out of ink, I suspect the date burned
> into each cartridge is the SAME DATE (and not some unique serial
> number).
>
> That is, I'm surmising, the HP D145 printer is seeing the second and
> third ink cartridges EXACTLY the same as the first (it appears). If I
> had only put them in service on a DIFFERENT DATE, then perhaps it would
> recognize the second and third cartridges as different.
>
> In summary, I think the HP D145 printer is assuming the three ink
> cartridges are one and the same because all the HP ojd145 "sees" is
> the same date burned into the smart chip on all three (which were put
> in initial service in the same machine on that same date months ago).
> Does this make any sense?
>

I should make it clear I did NOT say the "darn HP" header.
I was merely responding to a header I found in GOOGLE groups
(i.e., nntp on the web). The response looks like it came from me
because the original dozen or more prior activity for some reason
doesn't show up.

So, I'm not bursting a blood vessel although I agree it might
re-fill my magenta tanks (it's cold, so maybe the cyan too)

I'm a scientist so I would really love to figure out WHY this
happened.

Wierdly, after replacing the battery last night (Christmas eve),
nothing changed; but this morning I received an unexpected
Christmas gift from HP. One of the three cartridges now works!

I immediately refilled it (so as to not damage the separate
print heads). Here is all I know.

- 12 hours ago, all three cartridges failed to print.
- I removed the battery & finished wrapping the kid's presents
- More than an hour later, I put the battery back.
- Nothing seemed to have changed; it still would not print.
- However, accidentally, I had forgotten to test the ORIGINAL ink
- Today, at 7am the kids awoke to hand-written laels
- Later, I tried printing (LCD now-dated JAN 00 00 00:00a)
- The completely full HP 14 C1050a ink said "Color Ink Out"
- However ... a strange thing happened next ...
- I found the original HP14 tri-color accidentally set aside
- It printed!
- Huh? Surprised, I immediatly took it out of service
- As it was indeed low on cyan ink
- I flipped the cartridge upside down & refilled all three
- I added 1 ml or so (assuming 15 drops per milliliter) slowly
- This originally "Color Ink Out" cartridge now prints better than
before!
- I guess it's the high quality ink that replaces the HP OEM ink
- Either way, I am desperately trying to figure out WHY this happens?

My hypothesis (stated to see if it stands the test of scrutiny):
- The 4.5 year expiry date is burned into the HP14 at time of
manufacture
- The 30-month service date is burned into the HP14 at time of 1st
service
- The low-ink condition is saved (somehow) in the printer computer
- Note this is not the Windows computer but the OJ d145 computer
- Somehow, I needed to change TWO variables (I am guessing)
- The first variable was removing the CMOS battery
- Somehow, the second variable was chaning the date by 12 hours
- This last part doesn't make sense so I ask HP printing experts:

QUESTION:
When the "color ink out" message appears, where is that data stored?"

I also heard there is a device that can reset the smartchip cartridge. This
can probably be found through the ink cartridge refilling kit vendors.

"Arthur Entlich" <> wrote in message
news:Sefzd.21302$KO5.5822@clgrps13...
> Before you burst a blood vessel (which might solve the problem of the
> magenta ink ;-)) I think HP may have a policy of replacing outdated full
> or nearly full cartridges.
>
> I know someone here will have your answer, if you are patient. I would
> not remove the battery, especially f it is precarious, until at least
> hearing from someone who knows HP's policy.
>
> Art
>
>
>
> Orak Listalavostok wrote:
>
>>>Just ran across this article
>>>
>>
>> http://www.alotofthings.com/inkjetin...arketplace.htm
>>
>>>some HP (and Lexmark) cartridges have the expiration dates burned in
>>>at the time of manufacture, not the time of installation.
>>
>>
>> I think there might be two dates 'burned' into the HP 14 c5010a ink
>> cartridges.
>> 1. FINAL EXPIRATION DATE (dies 4.5 years from date of manufacture)
>> 2. IN-SERVICE DATE (dies 2.5 years from date of initial installation)
>> The "actual" HP14 ink cartrdige expiry date is the first of these two!
>>
>> I think the 4.5 year expiry date is burned in at manufacture time;
>> I think the 30-month expiry date is burned in when you install it.
>>
>> I don't think HP burns in a serial number;
>> I think it burns the actual date!
>>
>> Witness these facts:
>> Today, Christmas Eve, my color cartridge said it was out of ink.
>> When I put a second cartridge in, it said the SAME THING even though
>> the cartridge was full of OEM ink (it was only used ONCE on the day I
>> bought it). Same with a third OEM full HP 14 color ink cartridge.
>>
>> I infer that the 30-months contiguous service is burned into the smart
>> chip at the time of install.
>>
>> Interesting, since all three cartridges were put in service on the same
>> day in the same machine, and all three are saying "out of ink" even
>> though only one can possibly be out of ink, I suspect the date burned
>> into each cartridge is the SAME DATE (and not some unique serial
>> number).
>>
>> That is, I'm surmising, the HP D145 printer is seeing the second and
>> third ink cartridges EXACTLY the same as the first (it appears). If I
>> had only put them in service on a DIFFERENT DATE, then perhaps it would
>> recognize the second and third cartridges as different.
>>
>> In summary, I think the HP D145 printer is assuming the three ink
>> cartridges are one and the same because all the HP ojd145 "sees" is
>> the same date burned into the smart chip on all three (which were put
>> in initial service in the same machine on that same date months ago).
>> Does this make any sense?
>>
>

Orak Listalavostok wrote:
> The unexplained HP engineering is why did three HP14 c5010a ink
> tanks (all of which were placed in service on the same date with
> all but one of which were immediately removed from service) report
> "COLOR INK OUT" (even when 2 of the 3 were full of HP OEM ink!)?

.... twas the night before Christmas ... my HP ink level sank ...
.... not a printer was printing ... nary one of 3 tanks ...

The good news:
- We're back printing beautifully (better than before) scores of prints
- Using (strangely) the original HP14 c5010a tri-color cartridge
- Which previously exhibited the correct "COLOR INK OUT" message!

The bad news:
- I have no idea what particular event "cleared" the HP "memory"

The lessons learned:
- Switching the three cartridges Dec 24 had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
- Filling the one empty cartridge also had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
- Removing the CR2032 3V CMOS battery had no immediate efect ...

The day after:
- Yet, about 12 hours later (on Christmas day)
- The completely full cartridge was removed ...
- And then replaced with the original empty cartridge ...

And it printed without error!
After subsequent refilling ... the original PRINTER INK OUT HP14
tri-color ink cartridge is printing beautifully vibrant photos even
after scores of sheets of paper (and multiple refills).

I guess it's the first Christmas present from HP to all of us.
I can't explain it; if you can - please do!

Orak Listalavostok

Without "being there", I am going to suggest there was a dirty contact
somewhere, that once the system read a low ink level, the other
cartridges did not register to remedy because that contact was not
getting new data from the new cartridges.

I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
other two might also work now.

However, although I don't know enough about HP printers, they might have
a problem similar to that which can crop up on Epsons with the Inteledge
chip. Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement
cartridge due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink
tanks for each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but
due to a mess up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new
cartridge (likely due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem).
When this happens with the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it
will write the level of the last known cartridge to the chip on the new
one, and therefore deeming the new cartridge as "empty" also. This
cartridge is then read as empty unless the chip is reset with an
external or software resetting device, which many people do not own.

I am unsure if HP printers can create the same scenario or not.


Art

Orak Listalavostok wrote:

> Orak Listalavostok wrote:
>
>>The unexplained HP engineering is why did three HP14 c5010a ink
>>tanks (all of which were placed in service on the same date with
>>all but one of which were immediately removed from service) report
>>"COLOR INK OUT" (even when 2 of the 3 were full of HP OEM ink!)?
>
>
> ... twas the night before Christmas ... my HP ink level sank ...
> ... not a printer was printing ... nary one of 3 tanks ...
>
> The good news:
> - We're back printing beautifully (better than before) scores of prints
> - Using (strangely) the original HP14 c5010a tri-color cartridge
> - Which previously exhibited the correct "COLOR INK OUT" message!
>
> The bad news:
> - I have no idea what particular event "cleared" the HP "memory"
>
> The lessons learned:
> - Switching the three cartridges Dec 24 had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
> - Filling the one empty cartridge also had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
> - Removing the CR2032 3V CMOS battery had no immediate efect ...
>
> The day after:
> - Yet, about 12 hours later (on Christmas day)
> - The completely full cartridge was removed ...
> - And then replaced with the original empty cartridge ...
>
> And it printed without error!
> After subsequent refilling ... the original PRINTER INK OUT HP14
> tri-color ink cartridge is printing beautifully vibrant photos even
> after scores of sheets of paper (and multiple refills).
>
> I guess it's the first Christmas present from HP to all of us.
> I can't explain it; if you can - please do!
>
> Orak Listalavostok
>

Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
> Without "being there", I am going to suggest there was a dirty contact
> somewhere, that once the system read a low ink level, the other
> cartridges did not register to remedy because that contact was not
> getting new data from the new cartridges.
>
> I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
> during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
> other two might also work now.
>
> However, although I don't know enough about HP printers, they might have
> a problem similar to that which can crop up on Epsons with the Inteledge
> chip. Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement
> cartridge due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink
> tanks for each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but
> due to a mess up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new
> cartridge (likely due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem).
> When this happens with the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it
> will write the level of the last known cartridge to the chip on the new
> one, and therefore deeming the new cartridge as "empty" also. This
> cartridge is then read as empty unless the chip is reset with an
> external or software resetting device, which many people do not own.
>
> I am unsure if HP printers can create the same scenario or not.
>
> Art
>
> Orak Listalavostok wrote:
>
> > Orak Listalavostok wrote:
> >
> >>The unexplained HP engineering is why did three HP14 c5010a ink
> >>tanks (all of which were placed in service on the same date with
> >>all but one of which were immediately removed from service) report
> >>"COLOR INK OUT" (even when 2 of the 3 were full of HP OEM ink!)?
> >
> >
> > ... twas the night before Christmas ... my HP ink level sank ...
> > ... not a printer was printing ... nary one of 3 tanks ...
> >
> > The good news:
> > - We're back printing beautifully (better than before) scores of prints
> > - Using (strangely) the original HP14 c5010a tri-color cartridge
> > - Which previously exhibited the correct "COLOR INK OUT" message!
> >
> > The bad news:
> > - I have no idea what particular event "cleared" the HP "memory"
> >
> > The lessons learned:
> > - Switching the three cartridges Dec 24 had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
> > - Filling the one empty cartridge also had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
> > - Removing the CR2032 3V CMOS battery had no immediate efect ...
> >
> > The day after:
> > - Yet, about 12 hours later (on Christmas day)
> > - The completely full cartridge was removed ...
> > - And then replaced with the original empty cartridge ...
> >
> > And it printed without error!
> > After subsequent refilling ... the original PRINTER INK OUT HP14
> > tri-color ink cartridge is printing beautifully vibrant photos even
> > after scores of sheets of paper (and multiple refills).
> >
> > I guess it's the first Christmas present from HP to all of us.
> > I can't explain it; if you can - please do!
> >
> > Orak Listalavostok
> >

It is not easy to mess up a *gold* contact...

"Arthur Entlich" <> wrote in message
news:IUxzd.28542$dv1.27080@edtnps89...
> I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
> during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
> other two might also work now.
>
> Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement cartridge
> due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink tanks for
> each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but due to a mess
> up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new cartridge (likely
> due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem). When this happens with
> the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it will write the level of
> the last known cartridge to the chip on the new one, and therefore deeming
> the new cartridge as "empty" also. This cartridge is then read as empty
> unless the chip is reset with an external or software resetting device,
> which many people do not own.

This sounds like what happened to his HP office jet.
I'm guessing the HP printer's COPPER (not gold!) contacts are dirty.

Best to get some sandpaper of a decent grit, say 300 grit, and scrape
down the contacts in both the printer and on the cartridge until they lose
their copper color and turn a metalic gray color.

This is what is recommended on the HP site anyway.

Sharon Smith wrote:
>
> "Arthur Entlich" <> wrote in message
> news:IUxzd.28542$dv1.27080@edtnps89...
> > I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
> > during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
> > other two might also work now.
> >
> > Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement cartridge
> > due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink tanks for
> > each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but due to a mess
> > up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new cartridge (likely
> > due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem). When this happens with
> > the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it will write the level of
> > the last known cartridge to the chip on the new one, and therefore deeming
> > the new cartridge as "empty" also. This cartridge is then read as empty
> > unless the chip is reset with an external or software resetting device,
> > which many people do not own.
>
> This sounds like what happened to his HP office jet.
> I'm guessing the HP printer's COPPER (not gold!) contacts are dirty.
>
> Best to get some sandpaper of a decent grit, say 300 grit, and scrape
> down the contacts in both the printer and on the cartridge until they lose
> their copper color and turn a metalic gray color.
>
> This is what is recommended on the HP site anyway.

All of the HP, Lexmart, Cannon and Epson inkjet cartridges that i have
had gold contacts.
Copper can get a rather non-conductive oxide and/or sulfide film
rather fast in some areas.
If you can easily sandpaper off that color, it ain't copper; no
manufacturer would plate a thin film of copper onto any other metal -
but they would plate a thin film of gold.
Copper has a "reddish" color (look at a new uncirculated penny for
reference), and gold has a "yellowish" color (look at a 24 carat gold
coin, like a standing liberty or a maple leaf for reference).

I would suggest that you do some research.