Re: FPGA Soft Core CPUs

On Nov 6, 6:00*am, Jack Klein <jackkl...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Parts obsolescence is biting again, and at least one of my EEs is
> insisting that we spin replacement boards with soft-core processors in
> FPGAs.
>
> There are several things I don't like about that.
>
> First, how robust are these systems. *What if power is lost during
> updating the configuration device?
>
> Second, I don't like the holy wars among our EEs. *Most of them use
> Altera and wouldn't touch Xilinx to save their lives. *But one guy
> uses only Xilinx and won't give the Altera rep the time of day. *This
> hasn't bothered me up until now, when we put together a peripheral
> that is accessed to a microcontroller or DSP, because we define an
> interface and they meet it. *I don't need to care who the FPGA source
> is.
>
> But if we're talking soft core, I'm not going to allow our embedded
> software department get saddled with supporting both NIOS and Micro
> Blaze.
>
> So third, I'd be grateful for any experiences with either soft core,
> or even better both, with a comparison between the two.
>
> And does anybody have any experience with the synthesizable ARM soft
> core for FPGA? *Unless there's a serious handicap, I'd prefer ARM if
> we do soft core, we've already good tools and programmer experience.
>
> Any and all comments, real or delusional, welcome.
>
> --
> Jack Kleinhttp://JK-Technology.Com
> FAQs for
> news:comp.lang.chttp://c-faq.com/
> news:comp.lang.c++http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
> news:alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/docs/FAQ-acllc.html

Hi Jack,

I am one who loves to play around with soft-cores,
yet I would also stay unless you have REAL valid reasons
to use a soft-core do not go that path.
I bet your EE guys can not give valid reasons
(or that I would be able to invalidate their reasons)

1) obsolete - dont fool your self, FPGA vendor soft-core do get
obsoleted as well!
2) FPGA vendor soft-core is actually a client-trap vendor lock-in

now, Cortex-M3 RTL code is really beatiful, small and easy, basically
you just
select ITCM/DTCM sizes, number NVIC interrupts, and you are done
and it useable on any FPGA with enough resources, so truly vendor
independant

optionally there free Coldfire (original freescale) core available for
Cyclone-3
(for other FPGAs there is license fee)

Antti

Antti wrote:
> On Nov 6, 6:00 am, Jack Klein <jackkl...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> Parts obsolescence is biting again, and at least one of my EEs is
>> insisting that we spin replacement boards with soft-core processors in
>> FPGAs.
>>
>> There are several things I don't like about that.
>>
>> First, how robust are these systems. What if power is lost during
>> updating the configuration device?
>>
>> Second, I don't like the holy wars among our EEs. Most of them use
>> Altera and wouldn't touch Xilinx to save their lives. But one guy
>> uses only Xilinx and won't give the Altera rep the time of day. This
>> hasn't bothered me up until now, when we put together a peripheral
>> that is accessed to a microcontroller or DSP, because we define an
>> interface and they meet it. I don't need to care who the FPGA source
>> is.
>>
>> But if we're talking soft core, I'm not going to allow our embedded
>> software department get saddled with supporting both NIOS and Micro
>> Blaze.
>>
>> So third, I'd be grateful for any experiences with either soft core,
>> or even better both, with a comparison between the two.
>>
>> And does anybody have any experience with the synthesizable ARM soft
>> core for FPGA? Unless there's a serious handicap, I'd prefer ARM if
>> we do soft core, we've already good tools and programmer experience.
>>
>> Any and all comments, real or delusional, welcome.
>>
>> --
>> Jack Kleinhttp://JK-Technology.Com
>> FAQs for
>> news:comp.lang.chttp://c-faq.com/
>> news:comp.lang.c++http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
>> news:alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/docs/FAQ-acllc.html
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> I am one who loves to play around with soft-cores,
> yet I would also stay unless you have REAL valid reasons
> to use a soft-core do not go that path.
> I bet your EE guys can not give valid reasons
> (or that I would be able to invalidate their reasons)
>
> 1) obsolete - dont fool your self, FPGA vendor soft-core do get
> obsoleted as well!
> 2) FPGA vendor soft-core is actually a client-trap vendor lock-in
>
> now, Cortex-M3 RTL code is really beatiful, small and easy, basically
> you just
> select ITCM/DTCM sizes, number NVIC interrupts, and you are done
> and it useable on any FPGA with enough resources, so truly vendor
> independant
>
> optionally there free Coldfire (original freescale) core available for
> Cyclone-3
> (for other FPGAs there is license fee)
>
> Antti
>
>

Hi Antti,

Do you mean Cortex-M1?
(Cortex-M3 do not have TCM interface :-) )

Hi Jack,
Currently you can access Cortex-M1 with :
1) Actel
- Design using Libero and SoftConcole
- Library of AMBA components available
- Royality free
- Allow easy reuse of IP blocks with AMBA interface
Note: The early version of SoftConcole does not support TCM, please
check with distributor to see if this has been improved.

2) Altera
Cortex-M1 Altera kit (contact Arrow Electronics)
- Design using SOPC builder
- Library of peripheral components available
- Free royal for 1000 units
(according to
http://www.altera.com/products/ip/pr...cortex-m1.html)
Note: Use Avalon interface with SOPC builder rather than AMBA

3) Synplicity used to have a program called ReadyIP.
Not sure if they are still doing it.

4) License it directly from ARM
- access to RTL so you can retarget to any FPGA
- include scripts for major FPGA tools and FPGA devices
- Use AMBA interface, and TCM support
- peripheral IP not included (you can possible find those in your FPGA
development tools, on the Internet, books, or develop them on your own).

Hope this helps.
regards,
Joseph

On Nov 6, 1:53*pm, Joseph Yiu <joseph....@somewhereinarm.com> wrote:
> Antti wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 6:00 am, Jack Klein <jackkl...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >> Parts obsolescence is biting again, and at least one of my EEs is
> >> insisting that we spin replacement boards with soft-core processors in
> >> FPGAs.
>
> >> There are several things I don't like about that.
>
> >> First, how robust are these systems. *What if power is lost during
> >> updating the configuration device?
>
> >> Second, I don't like the holy wars among our EEs. *Most of them use
> >> Altera and wouldn't touch Xilinx to save their lives. *But one guy
> >> uses only Xilinx and won't give the Altera rep the time of day. *This
> >> hasn't bothered me up until now, when we put together a peripheral
> >> that is accessed to a microcontroller or DSP, because we define an
> >> interface and they meet it. *I don't need to care who the FPGA source
> >> is.
>
> >> But if we're talking soft core, I'm not going to allow our embedded
> >> software department get saddled with supporting both NIOS and Micro
> >> Blaze.
>
> >> So third, I'd be grateful for any experiences with either soft core,
> >> or even better both, with a comparison between the two.
>
> >> And does anybody have any experience with the synthesizable ARM soft
> >> core for FPGA? *Unless there's a serious handicap, I'd prefer ARM if
> >> we do soft core, we've already good tools and programmer experience.
>
> >> Any and all comments, real or delusional, welcome.
>
> >> --
> >> Jack Kleinhttp://JK-Technology.Com
> >> FAQs for
> >> news:comp.lang.chttp://c-faq.com/
> >> news:comp.lang.c++http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
> >> news:alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/docs/FAQ-acllc.html
>
> > Hi Jack,
>
> > I am one who loves to play around with soft-cores,
> > yet I would also stay unless you have REAL valid reasons
> > to use a soft-core do not go that path.
> > I bet your EE guys can not give valid reasons
> > (or that I would be able to invalidate their reasons)
>
> > 1) obsolete - dont fool your self, FPGA vendor soft-core do get
> > obsoleted as well!
> > 2) FPGA vendor soft-core is actually a client-trap vendor lock-in
>
> > now, Cortex-M3 RTL code is really beatiful, small and easy, basically
> > you just
> > select ITCM/DTCM sizes, number NVIC interrupts, and you are done
> > and it useable on any FPGA with enough resources, so truly vendor
> > independant
>
> > optionally there free Coldfire (original freescale) core available for
> > Cyclone-3
> > (for other FPGAs there is license fee)
>
> > Antti
>
> Hi Antti,
>
> Do you mean Cortex-M1?
> (Cortex-M3 do not have TCM interface :-) )
>
> Hi Jack,
> Currently you can access Cortex-M1 with :
> 1) Actel
> - Design using Libero and SoftConcole
> - Library of AMBA components available
> - Royality free
> - Allow easy reuse of IP blocks with AMBA interface
> Note: The early version of SoftConcole does not support TCM, please
> check with distributor to see if this has been improved.
>
> 2) Altera
> Cortex-M1 Altera kit (contact Arrow Electronics)
> - Design using SOPC builder
> - Library of peripheral components available
> - Free royal for 1000 units
> (according tohttp://www.altera.com/products/ip/processors/32_16bit/m-arm-cortex-m1...)
> Note: Use Avalon interface with SOPC builder rather than AMBA
>
> 3) Synplicity used to have a program called ReadyIP.
> Not sure if they are still doing it.
>
> 4) License it directly from ARM
> - access to RTL so you can retarget to any FPGA
> - include scripts for major FPGA tools and FPGA devices
> - Use AMBA interface, and TCM support
> - peripheral IP not included (you can possible find those in your FPGA
> development tools, on the Internet, books, or develop them on your own).
>
> Hope this helps.
> regards,
> Joseph

sorry, my mistake of course M1
I have synthesized M3 for Xilinx too, but it far more larger and too
complicated (too much resources)

M1 however is real nice thing, real small too, in terms of FPGA
resources

Antti