Re: Gateway Bro Essential 700c

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:12:39 -0600, jobicampbell wrote:

> My in-laws have a gateway Bro Essential 700c series with Windows ME and
> a Celeron processor. The thing will not load windows, it looks like it
> wants to. An error message comes up to insert boot disk. What do I
> need to do to get this computer up and running again? A new hard drive?
> A new lithum battery for the motherboard? Any help will be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> thanks
* * *

jobicampbell,

Question, what are they going to do with the computer if you could get it
to boot and run windows ME successfully? There is no anti-virus you can
install, there are no current malware cleaners that you can install to
remove any spyware/advertisng viruses - Trojans that are lurking in many
web sties waiting for a unprotected computer.

My suggestion would be to download a Linux operating system maybe, Puppy
and/or Mepis and burn the image file to CD. Then you will have a live CD,
or two Live CDs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_CD

Then change the boot order to boot from CD. Boot the system from the
live cd, to see if all the hardware works. I would boot puppy first and
see if you can power up the system and get it to work, then try setting
up your web connection...

Running a live CD does not write to the hard drive, or need a working
hard drive in the computer, it will run in memory. Puppy will ask you if
you want to write a configuration file to the hard drive to make it boot
faster next time, but you do not need to let it access the drive...

Puppy needs 64 MB of memory, but works more than twice as well in 128 MB,
Mepis requires 256 MB, and will perform well with 512 in that motherboard
and CPU...

MEPIS Live CD has a application, ms-sys, to restore Microsoft MBR on the
hard disk.

1. Download, create a live CD, and boot the MEPIS 6.5.02 Live CD, which
has ms-sys on it.
2. Download, create a live CD, and boot the MEPIS 7.0 Live CD and boot
using the aufs option, and install ms-sys from Synaptic (the open yellow
box in the taskbar).

Run the ms-sys command from the Terminal Program (Konsole).
Open menu> system>
terminal program (Konsole)>
type su (enter)>
type password (Using a live CD the password is always root) >
Type ms-sys -9 /dev/hda (enter)
That should restore your Windows ME MBR


ms-sys [options] [device]
Options:
-1, --fat12 Write a FAT12 floppy boot record to device
-2, --fat32nt Write a FAT32 partition NT boot record to device
-3, --fat32 Write a FAT32 partition DOS boot record to device
-6, --fat16 Write a FAT16 partition DOS boot record to device
-l, --wipelabel Reset partition disk label in boot record
-p, --partition Write partition info (hidden sectors and drive id) to
boot record
-m, --mbr Write a Windows 2000/XP/2003 MBR to device
-9, --mbr95b Write a Windows 95B/98/98SE/ME MBR to device
-d, --mbrdos Write a DOS/Windows NT MBR to device
-s, --mbrsyslinux Write a public domain syslinux MBR to device
-z, --mbrzero Write an empty (zeroed) MBR to device
-f, --force Force writing of boot record
-h, --help Display this help and exit
-v, --version Show program version
-w, --write Write automatically selected boot record to device

Default Inspect current boot record

Warning: Writing the wrong kind of boot record to a device might destroy
partition information or file system!

JR

In news:EDall.344$,
Postman Delivers typed on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:59:16 GMT:
> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:12:39 -0600, jobicampbell wrote:
>
>> My in-laws have a gateway Bro Essential 700c series with Windows ME
>> and a Celeron processor. The thing will not load windows, it looks
>> like it wants to. An error message comes up to insert boot disk.
>> What do I need to do to get this computer up and running again? A
>> new hard drive? A new lithum battery for the motherboard? Any help
>> will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> thanks
> * * *
>
> jobicampbell,
>
> Question, what are they going to do with the computer if you could
> get it to boot and run windows ME successfully? There is no
> anti-virus you can install, there are no current malware cleaners
> that you can install to remove any spyware/advertisng viruses -
> Trojans that are lurking in many web sties waiting for a unprotected
> computer.

I don't completely buy this. As there are firewalls, anti-virus, and
anti-malware utilities that still can run under Windows ME. And ME runs
just fine on some systems.

> My suggestion would be to download a Linux operating system maybe,
> Puppy and/or Mepis and burn the image file to CD. Then you will have
> a live CD, or two Live CDs.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_CD

While suggesting a Linux distro seems to be a popular recommendation
among many, I disagree. Linux has a huge learning curve for one. And if
you are not willing to put in the time into it, what good is going to
be? And Linux is dangerous even from a Live CD on a Windows computer in
the wrong hands. And sometimes even in the right hands.

> Then change the boot order to boot from CD. Boot the system from the
> live cd, to see if all the hardware works. I would boot puppy first
> and see if you can power up the system and get it to work, then try
> setting up your web connection...

Settings up a web connection might not be possible. As Linux isn't
complete with hardware drivers and what they do have... well some of
those are too buggy to be of much use. And Puppy Linux for me toggles my
LCD brightness up to max. Very annoying! As I need sunglasses just to
boot up.

> Running a live CD does not write to the hard drive, or need a working
> hard drive in the computer, it will run in memory. Puppy will ask
> you if you want to write a configuration file to the hard drive to
> make it boot faster next time, but you do not need to let it access
> the drive...
>
> Puppy needs 64 MB of memory, but works more than twice as well in 128
> MB, Mepis requires 256 MB, and will perform well with 512 in that
> motherboard and CPU...

Not all Live CDs this can be said. As Ubuntu Live corrupts my Windows XP
registry every time. I didn't believe it at first, but I did it two more
times to be sure. Yup, Ubuntu Live does something to the Windows
registry and makes it unbootable. As Windows will lockup before it gets
to the desktop. I had to repair it with BartPE and ERUNT.

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

BillW50 wrote:
> In news:EDall.344$,
> Postman Delivers typed on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:59:16 GMT:
>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:12:39 -0600, jobicampbell wrote:
>>
>>> My in-laws have a gateway Bro Essential 700c series with Windows ME
>>> and a Celeron processor. The thing will not load windows, it looks
>>> like it wants to. An error message comes up to insert boot disk.
>>> What do I need to do to get this computer up and running again? A
>>> new hard drive? A new lithum battery for the motherboard? Any help
>>> will be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> thanks
>> * * *
>>
>> jobicampbell,
>>
>> Question, what are they going to do with the computer if you could
>> get it to boot and run windows ME successfully? There is no
>> anti-virus you can install, there are no current malware cleaners
>> that you can install to remove any spyware/advertisng viruses -
>> Trojans that are lurking in many web sties waiting for a unprotected
>> computer.
>
> I don't completely buy this. As there are firewalls, anti-virus, and
> anti-malware utilities that still can run under Windows ME. And ME runs
> just fine on some systems.
>
>> My suggestion would be to download a Linux operating system maybe,
>> Puppy and/or Mepis and burn the image file to CD. Then you will have
>> a live CD, or two Live CDs.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_CD
>
> While suggesting a Linux distro seems to be a popular recommendation
> among many, I disagree. Linux has a huge learning curve for one. And if
> you are not willing to put in the time into it, what good is going to
> be? And Linux is dangerous even from a Live CD on a Windows computer in
> the wrong hands. And sometimes even in the right hands.
>
>> Then change the boot order to boot from CD. Boot the system from the
>> live cd, to see if all the hardware works. I would boot puppy first
>> and see if you can power up the system and get it to work, then try
>> setting up your web connection...
>
> Settings up a web connection might not be possible. As Linux isn't
> complete with hardware drivers and what they do have... well some of
> those are too buggy to be of much use. And Puppy Linux for me toggles my
> LCD brightness up to max. Very annoying! As I need sunglasses just to
> boot up.
>
>> Running a live CD does not write to the hard drive, or need a working
>> hard drive in the computer, it will run in memory. Puppy will ask
>> you if you want to write a configuration file to the hard drive to
>> make it boot faster next time, but you do not need to let it access
>> the drive...
>>
>> Puppy needs 64 MB of memory, but works more than twice as well in 128
>> MB, Mepis requires 256 MB, and will perform well with 512 in that
>> motherboard and CPU...
>
> Not all Live CDs this can be said. As Ubuntu Live corrupts my Windows XP
> registry every time. I didn't believe it at first, but I did it two more
> times to be sure. Yup, Ubuntu Live does something to the Windows
> registry and makes it unbootable. As Windows will lockup before it gets
> to the desktop. I had to repair it with BartPE and ERUNT.
>

OMG, here we go again with the canard about Ubuntu corrupting the
Windows registry when Ubuntu is booted from a FLASH DRIVE!!!! Did you
ever repeat your experiment with an Ubuntu CD ????

Despite your comment that Linux has a learning curve (huge? really?),
with which I somewhat agree, the OP has an almost unusable system with
Windows ME, the absolute worst of the Windows 9x family with old DOS
underpinnings.

Systems of this vintage may or may not have an Ethernet adapter. If
not, then the OP needs to add a PCI Ethernet card, preferably a
mainstream one like an Intel one, or even a once-upon-a-time mainstream
one like a 3COM 3C905, for which most any flavor of Linux has built-in
drivers. I cannot speak for what Linux does when confronted by Realtek,
D-Link, or Linksys NICs.

Rather than generalities and motherhood, how about very specific
"firewalls, anti-virus, and anti-malware utilities" that run under ME?
I would, except I have worked extra hard to forget most everything I
know about Windows ME, and I have pretty much succeeded. I discourage
people from continuing to use Windows 95/98/ME because they are very
much obsolete, and the hardware of one of these systems is pretty old...
Ben Myers

In news:gn47et$r2v$,
Ben Myers typed on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:34:34 -0500:
> BillW50 wrote:
>> In news:EDall.344$,
>> Postman Delivers typed on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:59:16 GMT:
>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:12:39 -0600, jobicampbell wrote:
>>>
>>>> My in-laws have a gateway Bro Essential 700c series with Windows ME
>>>> and a Celeron processor. The thing will not load windows, it looks
>>>> like it wants to. An error message comes up to insert boot disk.
>>>> What do I need to do to get this computer up and running again? A
>>>> new hard drive? A new lithum battery for the motherboard? Any help
>>>> will be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>> * * *
>>>
>>> jobicampbell,
>>>
>>> Question, what are they going to do with the computer if you could
>>> get it to boot and run windows ME successfully? There is no
>>> anti-virus you can install, there are no current malware cleaners
>>> that you can install to remove any spyware/advertisng viruses -
>>> Trojans that are lurking in many web sties waiting for a unprotected
>>> computer.
>>
>> I don't completely buy this. As there are firewalls, anti-virus, and
>> anti-malware utilities that still can run under Windows ME. And ME
>> runs just fine on some systems.
>>
>>> My suggestion would be to download a Linux operating system maybe,
>>> Puppy and/or Mepis and burn the image file to CD. Then you will have
>>> a live CD, or two Live CDs.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_CD
>>
>> While suggesting a Linux distro seems to be a popular recommendation
>> among many, I disagree. Linux has a huge learning curve for one. And
>> if you are not willing to put in the time into it, what good is
>> going to be? And Linux is dangerous even from a Live CD on a Windows
>> computer in the wrong hands. And sometimes even in the right hands.
>>
>>> Then change the boot order to boot from CD. Boot the system from
>>> the live cd, to see if all the hardware works. I would boot puppy
>>> first and see if you can power up the system and get it to work,
>>> then try setting up your web connection...
>>
>> Settings up a web connection might not be possible. As Linux isn't
>> complete with hardware drivers and what they do have... well some of
>> those are too buggy to be of much use. And Puppy Linux for me
>> toggles my LCD brightness up to max. Very annoying! As I need
>> sunglasses just to boot up.
>>
>>> Running a live CD does not write to the hard drive, or need a
>>> working hard drive in the computer, it will run in memory. Puppy
>>> will ask you if you want to write a configuration file to the hard
>>> drive to make it boot faster next time, but you do not need to let
>>> it access the drive...
>>>
>>> Puppy needs 64 MB of memory, but works more than twice as well in
>>> 128 MB, Mepis requires 256 MB, and will perform well with 512 in
>>> that motherboard and CPU...
>>
>> Not all Live CDs this can be said. As Ubuntu Live corrupts my
>> Windows XP registry every time. I didn't believe it at first, but I
>> did it two more times to be sure. Yup, Ubuntu Live does something to
>> the Windows registry and makes it unbootable. As Windows will lockup
>> before it gets to the desktop. I had to repair it with BartPE and
>> ERUNT.
>
> OMG, here we go again with the canard about Ubuntu corrupting the
> Windows registry when Ubuntu is booted from a FLASH DRIVE!!!! Did you
> ever repeat your experiment with an Ubuntu CD ????
>
> Despite your comment that Linux has a learning curve (huge? really?),
> with which I somewhat agree, the OP has an almost unusable system with
> Windows ME, the absolute worst of the Windows 9x family with old DOS
> underpinnings.
>
> Systems of this vintage may or may not have an Ethernet adapter. If
> not, then the OP needs to add a PCI Ethernet card, preferably a
> mainstream one like an Intel one, or even a once-upon-a-time
> mainstream one like a 3COM 3C905, for which most any flavor of Linux
> has built-in drivers. I cannot speak for what Linux does when
> confronted by Realtek, D-Link, or Linksys NICs.
>
> Rather than generalities and motherhood, how about very specific
> "firewalls, anti-virus, and anti-malware utilities" that run under ME?
> I would, except I have worked extra hard to forget most everything I
> know about Windows ME, and I have pretty much succeeded. I discourage
> people from continuing to use Windows 95/98/ME because they are very
> much obsolete, and the hardware of one of these systems is pretty
> old... Ben Myers

Hi Ben! No I haven't done anymore experimenting with Ubuntu, but maybe I
will get to it this weekend.

As for feelings of Windows ME, I have mixed feelings about it. As I have
seen systems where it runs very well and systems that it is far too
buggy. I can't say whether it is the OS itself or just the drivers.

As for old OS, I must say I really like to run Windows 3.1 and Windows
95 someday once again. As they were really small and I would like to see
small OS once again. Although since there is no USB support and no
drivers available for my modern hardware, I don't think I'll see them
running here in the future. Maybe in a virtual desktop, maybe that would
work.

Also the problem about changing the OS that came with the computer...
well there is that driver problem that one is bound to run into. I see
this all of the time. And a lot of times, it is more trouble than it is
worth. I only had one easy time. That is with a Toshiba 2595XDVD that
came with Windows 98FE. And that was putting Windows 2000 on it and
Windows 2000 had all of the drivers for it. Nothing to hunt for and
Windows 2000 detected everything correctly. This is indeed very rare.

As for an anti-virus for Windows ME, Avast 4.8 will still run on Windows
95/98/ME.

http://www.avast.com/eng/system-requ...vast-home.html

SUPER AntiSpyware runs under Windows 98/ME
http://www.superantispyware.com/superantispyware.html

Windows 98/ME-Friendly Security Tools
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/sec...efriendly.html

--
Bill
2 Gateway MX6124 - Windows XP SP2
3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux - Puppy - Ubuntu

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:18:54 -0600, BillW50 wrote:

> In news:gn47et$r2v$, Ben Myers typed on Fri, 13 Feb
> 2009 11:34:34 -0500:
>> BillW50 wrote:
>>> In news:EDall.344$, Postman Delivers typed on Fri,
>>> 13 Feb 2009 08:59:16 GMT:
>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:12:39 -0600, jobicampbell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My in-laws have a gateway Bro Essential 700c series with Windows ME
>>>>> and a Celeron processor. The thing will not load windows, it looks
>>>>> like it wants to. An error message comes up to insert boot disk.
>>>>> What do I need to do to get this computer up and running again? A
>>>>> new hard drive? A new lithum battery for the motherboard? Any help
>>>>> will be greatly appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>> * * *
>>>>
>>>> jobicampbell,
>>>>
>>>> Question, what are they going to do with the computer if you could
>>>> get it to boot and run windows ME successfully? There is no
>>>> anti-virus you can install, there are no current malware cleaners
>>>> that you can install to remove any spyware/advertisng viruses -
>>>> Trojans that are lurking in many web sties waiting for a unprotected
>>>> computer.
>>>
>>> I don't completely buy this. As there are firewalls, anti-virus, and
>>> anti-malware utilities that still can run under Windows ME. And ME
>>> runs just fine on some systems.
>>>
>>>> My suggestion would be to download a Linux operating system maybe,
>>>> Puppy and/or Mepis and burn the image file to CD. Then you will have
>>>> a live CD, or two Live CDs.
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_CD
>>>
>>> While suggesting a Linux distro seems to be a popular recommendation
>>> among many, I disagree. Linux has a huge learning curve for one. And
>>> if you are not willing to put in the time into it, what good is going
>>> to be? And Linux is dangerous even from a Live CD on a Windows
>>> computer in the wrong hands. And sometimes even in the right hands.
>>>
>>>> Then change the boot order to boot from CD. Boot the system from the
>>>> live cd, to see if all the hardware works. I would boot puppy first
>>>> and see if you can power up the system and get it to work, then try
>>>> setting up your web connection...
>>>
>>> Settings up a web connection might not be possible. As Linux isn't
>>> complete with hardware drivers and what they do have... well some of
>>> those are too buggy to be of much use. And Puppy Linux for me toggles
>>> my LCD brightness up to max. Very annoying! As I need sunglasses just
>>> to boot up.
>>>
>>>> Running a live CD does not write to the hard drive, or need a working
>>>> hard drive in the computer, it will run in memory. Puppy will ask
>>>> you if you want to write a configuration file to the hard drive to
>>>> make it boot faster next time, but you do not need to let it access
>>>> the drive...
>>>>
>>>> Puppy needs 64 MB of memory, but works more than twice as well in 128
>>>> MB, Mepis requires 256 MB, and will perform well with 512 in that
>>>> motherboard and CPU...
>>>
>>> Not all Live CDs this can be said. As Ubuntu Live corrupts my Windows
>>> XP registry every time. I didn't believe it at first, but I did it two
>>> more times to be sure. Yup, Ubuntu Live does something to the Windows
>>> registry and makes it unbootable. As Windows will lockup before it
>>> gets to the desktop. I had to repair it with BartPE and ERUNT.
>>
>> OMG, here we go again with the canard about Ubuntu corrupting the
>> Windows registry when Ubuntu is booted from a FLASH DRIVE!!!! Did you
>> ever repeat your experiment with an Ubuntu CD ????
>>
>> Despite your comment that Linux has a learning curve (huge? really?),
>> with which I somewhat agree, the OP has an almost unusable system with
>> Windows ME, the absolute worst of the Windows 9x family with old DOS
>> underpinnings.
>>
>> Systems of this vintage may or may not have an Ethernet adapter. If
>> not, then the OP needs to add a PCI Ethernet card, preferably a
>> mainstream one like an Intel one, or even a once-upon-a-time mainstream
>> one like a 3COM 3C905, for which most any flavor of Linux has built-in
>> drivers. I cannot speak for what Linux does when confronted by
>> Realtek, D-Link, or Linksys NICs.
>>
>> Rather than generalities and motherhood, how about very specific
>> "firewalls, anti-virus, and anti-malware utilities" that run under ME?
>> I would, except I have worked extra hard to forget most everything I
>> know about Windows ME, and I have pretty much succeeded. I discourage
>> people from continuing to use Windows 95/98/ME because they are very
>> much obsolete, and the hardware of one of these systems is pretty
>> old... Ben Myers
>
> Hi Ben! No I haven't done anymore experimenting with Ubuntu, but maybe I
> will get to it this weekend.
>
> As for feelings of Windows ME, I have mixed feelings about it. As I have
> seen systems where it runs very well and systems that it is far too
> buggy. I can't say whether it is the OS itself or just the drivers.
>
> As for old OS, I must say I really like to run Windows 3.1 and Windows
> 95 someday once again. As they were really small and I would like to see
> small OS once again. Although since there is no USB support and no
> drivers available for my modern hardware, I don't think I'll see them
> running here in the future. Maybe in a virtual desktop, maybe that would
> work.
>
> Also the problem about changing the OS that came with the computer...
> well there is that driver problem that one is bound to run into. I see
> this all of the time. And a lot of times, it is more trouble than it is
> worth. I only had one easy time. That is with a Toshiba 2595XDVD that
> came with Windows 98FE. And that was putting Windows 2000 on it and
> Windows 2000 had all of the drivers for it. Nothing to hunt for and
> Windows 2000 detected everything correctly. This is indeed very rare.
>
> As for an anti-virus for Windows ME, Avast 4.8 will still run on Windows
> 95/98/ME.
>
> http://www.avast.com/eng/system-requ...vast-home.html
>
> SUPER AntiSpyware runs under Windows 98/ME
> http://www.superantispyware.com/superantispyware.html
>
> Windows 98/ME-Friendly Security Tools
> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2006/07/
a_look_at_windows_98mefriendly.html

* * *
BillW50,

You might look, the Washington post security fix link was closed in
2006...

Try and load up a windows ME operating system and load the current ad-
aware that will update today... Try and find a Windows ME printer driver
for for a current inkjet printer avaaible in Fry's Electronic, Wal-Mart
or Best Buy. Billw50 no one except a die hard restorer will spend the
necessary hours each week to keep the old windows operating system
running safely, and few would try to keep the ME version running...
(Windows 98se maybe because of its decent performance in older small
memory systems, along with USB support)

jobicampbell, is doing this for his in-laws, and if they can not boot the
system I am certain they are not going to do all the repetitive
maintenance required to keep a Microsoft operating system running,
especially not a obsolete windows ME operating system.

As you know I posted here previously about installing Puppy on a Gateway
PROFILE III CX with 120 MB of memory... It is essentially a dual boot
system and windows ME never goes on line. With all the software the
neighbor uses it works well with his printer/scanner, but for the
internet it is running Puppy or Slitaz Cooking that is much safer than
trying to use windows ME on the internet...

I have run Ubunta several times from a live CD, and I have run 10 or 12
other Linux distros with various levels of success and comfort. Slitaz
is a great Live CD to keep in your CD drive, it boots up with a "Firefox"
icon in the middle of the desktop, far better for friends that need to
use the web than letting them mess about in a Microsoft operating system.

Tis funny, I have used Linux as a Live USB drive, and Live CDs on several
hundred systems and never had or heard about a Linux running in memory
touching the hard drive (registry) unless you deliberately take action to
mount and access the hard drive... I find coaching a new users with a
KDE Linux, there is less of a Learning curve, than trying to help them
learn Microsoft's Vista operating system...

I alway have several/two Linux computers running 24/7, recently I
rebooted one system that had been running continually for 102 days
(incluiding doing the required updates), try performing that feat with a
microsoft operating system new or old. I do use two dual boot systems,
one a desktop system I run occasionally when I dust if off, and a
notebook I will run more often when I need to visually guide/help someone
on the phone...

Every computer that touches my workbench is tested with Mepis 7, and
recently Mepis 8 beta RC3. If the video/graphic card is an odd one then
I will use Puppy 3.1/4.0 or Slitaz cooking, because it is easy to test
the various 16 bit video drivers as I discovered to be a problem
experimenting with a Gateway PROFILE III CX.

I also think you might find it difficult to find a method to repair the
MBR for windows ME on the Microsoft website... Yet it is still possible
using a modern or current Mepis Linux, I provided instructions for
jobicampbell...

BillW50, there is a lot of good older computer hardware sitting in
garages, and closets that will run rapidly using a modern web safe Linux
operating system. There is no reason to cast these perfectly good
systems into the landfills, when they can run 24/7 as a music box, video
player, internet firewall, student system or used to surf the web without
the vulnerabilities of a Microsoft operating system.

Our opinions differ, and that is one reason we have different makes,
models and colors of automobiles on our roads...

JR the postman