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Re: Matrox & Asus Being Jerks! P4C800-E Dlx + P650/P750 Fails During Boot!

 
 
Rapu Rapala
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      04-05-2004, 01:57 AM
> Normally BIOS code by definition IS in host CPU code. Such code is NOT
CPU
> independent and therefore most PCI or ISA bus PC cards are NOT CPU
> independent! They are x86 CPU dependent.


Ron, the cards are connected to the motherboard using a bus such as ISA,
EIDE, VESA, PCI, PCI-X, AGP.. the host system processor does send commands
to the card using either input/output ports or memory mapping, where writes
to specific address are sent to the card through the bus.

If the host processor wants to execute code from the BIOS, it can do this,
but the results are in CPU local registers and address space. If the CPU
wants something to happen, it must again write back to the memory mapped
region or use output ports.

The device must be able to respond to the command stream from the host
system and do whatever it is this device is supposed to be doing. The host
processor can only send command stream to the device. This code is very
rarely x86 specific in any way or form, it is more often hardware specific
values which change the hardware state.

You seriously don't try to make anyone belive that most PC add-on boards
have x86 compatible processor on them!? If not, what precisely is the factor
that you feel that does make them (all?) x86 CPU dependent? Please come
again, this is going to be very interesting.


 
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Rapu Rapala
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      04-05-2004, 02:36 AM
FWIW, IBM PC compatible BIOS for a motherboard is example of device which
*does* have a x86 compatible CPU very often. Stating that all add-on boards
do, is naive- why would they need to store driver code in ROM when it can be
loaded off the hard-drive by the OS and thereby even upgraded without
flashing? ;-)

As far as I know of, most cards do have a Windows drivers for instance which
are NOT loaded off ROM. ;-)




 
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Rapu Rapala
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      04-05-2004, 02:41 AM
> As far as I know of, most cards do have a Windows drivers for instance
which
> are NOT loaded off ROM. ;-)


... except the VGA/VBE bios which is used through interrupt 0x10 .. which is
required feature only on IBM PC compatible systems.. if you drop such PCI
card to another architechture, you can still command it through the bus..
just more code to write, on the other hand the VBE BIOS is not very commonly
used anymore except for booting, maybe by the motherboard BIOS (int 0x21)
and some archaic "SVGA generic" drivers in Linux and MS-DOS, if you happen
to boot it for some bizarre reason.

Some text-mode tools also propably find it more convenient to use int 0x10
rather than write driver for all possible gfx card.. but again.. this is
just IBM PC compatible proprietary feature for cards which are supposed to
work on one.

But I don't see any technical reason why you couldn't use virtually any PCI
card meant for "IBM PC" in any system which has PCI bus, as long as you have
the software for the feat. Ron seemingly does, what a strange fellow!


 
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Ron Reaugh
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      04-05-2004, 04:07 AM

"Rapu Rapala" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:c4qeff$436$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Normally BIOS code by definition IS in host CPU code. Such code is NOT

> CPU
> > independent and therefore most PCI or ISA bus PC cards are NOT CPU
> > independent! They are x86 CPU dependent.

>
> Ron, the cards are connected to the motherboard using a bus such as ISA,
> EIDE, VESA, PCI, PCI-X, AGP.. the host system processor does send

commands
> to the card using either input/output ports or memory mapping, where

writes
> to specific address are sent to the card through the bus.
>
> If the host processor wants to execute code from the BIOS, it can do this,
> but the results are in CPU local registers and address space. If the CPU
> wants something to happen, it must again write back to the memory mapped
> region or use output ports.
>
> The device must be able to respond to the command stream from the host
> system and do whatever it is this device is supposed to be doing. The host
> processor can only send command stream to the device. This code is very
> rarely x86 specific in any way or form, it is more often hardware specific
> values which change the hardware state.
>
> You seriously don't try to make anyone belive that most PC add-on boards
> have x86 compatible processor on them!? If not, what precisely is the

factor
> that you feel that does make them (all?) x86 CPU dependent? Please come
> again, this is going to be very interesting.


HUH, reread the thread.


 
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Ron Reaugh
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      04-05-2004, 04:07 AM

"Rapu Rapala" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:c4qgoo$5b6$(E-Mail Removed)...
> FWIW, IBM PC compatible BIOS for a motherboard is example of device which
> *does* have a x86 compatible CPU very often.


DUH!

> Stating that all add-on boards
> do,


No one ever stated that especially me. If you read the whole thread you'd
see that. The code on a card/controller is specific to the CPU on that
card, which could even be an 80186, such code is referred to as firmware
and not BIOS.

Some cards also(in addition) may have actual BIOS code(x86 code) that is
registered with the mobo BIOS and essentailly becomes part of that x86 boot
code set.



 
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Ron Reaugh
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      04-05-2004, 04:07 AM

"Rapu Rapala" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:c4qh29$5j0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > As far as I know of, most cards do have a Windows drivers for instance

> which
> > are NOT loaded off ROM. ;-)

>
> .. except the VGA/VBE bios which is used through interrupt 0x10 ..


OH, so now you are saying x86 code entry...now you got it.

>which is
> required feature only on IBM PC compatible systems.. if you drop such PCI
> card to another architechture, you can still command it through the bus..
> just more code to write, on the other hand the VBE BIOS



That's x86 code

> is not very commonly
> used anymore except for booting,


Now you got it.

> maybe by the motherboard BIOS (int 0x21)
> and some archaic "SVGA generic" drivers in Linux and MS-DOS, if you happen
> to boot it for some bizarre reason.
>
> Some text-mode tools also propably find it more convenient to use int 0x10
> rather than write driver for all possible gfx card.. but again.. this is
> just IBM PC compatible proprietary feature for cards which are supposed to
> work on one.
>
> But I don't see any technical reason why you couldn't use virtually any

PCI
> card meant for "IBM PC" in any system which has PCI bus, as long as you

have
> the software for the feat. Ron seemingly does, what a strange fellow!


Get a clue cretin.


 
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Rapu Rapala
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      04-05-2004, 05:17 AM
>> .. except the VGA/VBE bios which is used through interrupt 0x10 ..
> OH, so now you are saying x86 code entry...now you got it.


No... I was covering every contingency, unlike you, loser. With assholes
like you that is mandatory, otherwise little ****-ant loser like you can
point out even tiniest omission.. next you propably are going to point out
how poor grammar I've got, because that's all you are going to be able to
complain about, loser.

Oh, hey, loser, while at it.. the VGA/VBE bios on gfx cards is required only
on IBM PC compatibles.. now you *might* get it.. I think you won't, because
you have shown consistently being stupid, loser.


> > required feature only on IBM PC compatible systems.. if you drop such

PCI
> > card to another architechture, you can still command it through the

bus..
> > just more code to write, on the other hand the VBE BIOS

>
> That's x86 code


Wrong, loser, the PCI specification is not tied to x86 specificly, loser. It
is just so, that IBM PC compatibles expect the gfx card for example to have
VGA/VBE BIOS. Other architechtures are not so much concerned about presense
of VGA/VBE BIOS than IBM PC compatibles, they will accept the cards just
fine, unless they have their own requirements, which are less likely to be
port-level hardware level compatibility. As long as you got driver, you're
all set. No hardware obstacle for anything like you claim, loser.

> > is not very commonly
> > used anymore except for booting,

>
> Now you got it.


You little piece of ****, if you knew this all along how come I am the one
who had to write it down for the record? Even if you know this stuff, you
sure suck at putting it down in writing, loser. Should be trivial for you as
it is for me, you little worthless ****.


> Get a clue cretin.


So far you have been saying that "now you got it" and so on, as if I were
right. Now you ask me to get a clue.. so which is it going to be, you little
weasel? I'm sorry, did I get your feelings hurt by proving you're wrong? Oh
my..


 
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Rapu Rapala
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      04-05-2004, 05:18 AM
> No one ever stated that especially me. If you read the whole thread you'd
> see that. The code on a card/controller is specific to the CPU on that
> card, which could even be an 80186, such code is referred to as firmware
> and not BIOS.


Now you finally got it.


> Some cards also(in addition) may have actual BIOS code(x86 code) that is
> registered with the mobo BIOS and essentailly becomes part of that x86

boot
> code set.


About time you start making sense, loser.


 
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Rapu Rapala
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      04-05-2004, 05:19 AM
> HUH, reread the thread.

I rather cross dress to woman's lingerie while masturbating watching woman
getting ****ed by a pony, but thanks anyway.


 
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Ron Reaugh
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      04-05-2004, 06:04 AM
Ah, I see...more of the Matrox marketing tag team.

"Rapu Rapala" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:c4qq73


 
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Re: Matrox & Asus Being Jerks! P4C800-E Dlx + P650/P750 Fails During Boot! Rapu Rapala Asus 10 04-05-2004 06:11 AM
Re: Matrox & Asus Being Jerks! P4C800-E Dlx + P650/P750 Fails During Boot! Ron Reaugh Matrox 0 04-05-2004 04:20 AM
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