Recommendation aksed for embedded processor

I am looking for a processor/controller to be used in an embedded
system that offers the following:

- low costs (if possible < 30 $ @ 10k)
- stable and well-supported platform
- PCI integrated (33MHz/32bit, no PCI-X, maybe PCIe could be
interesting if it is already available as integrated peripheral)
- Gigabit LAN integrated (option: could be done via PCI with special
IC, but then it has to be included in the costs)
- support of linux (preferrably "standard" linux)
- at least 300MHz CPU clock, better more for performance reasons (may
depend on actual architecture)

Nice to have, but not crucial:
- USB 2.0 integrated (option: could be done via PCI with special IC,
but then it has to be included in the costs)
- hardware accelerated encryption
- hardware accelerated network operations, e.g. for TCP/IP etc.

On first view the Intel network processors looked interesting, but they
offer only 100Mb LAN (and most of them exceed the price limit
anyway...).

Any hints where to look are appreciated.

Matthias

Matthias wrote:
> I am looking for a processor/controller to be used in an embedded
> system that offers the following:
>
> - low costs (if possible < 30 $ @ 10k)

Difficult to do for the following reasons.

> - stable and well-supported platform
> - PCI integrated (33MHz/32bit, no PCI-X, maybe PCIe could be
> interesting if it is already available as integrated peripheral)
> - Gigabit LAN integrated (option: could be done via PCI with special

To support Gigabit, you probably need 64 bits PCI and faster than
300MHz CPU.
You also needs lots of RAM buffers, and things gets expensive beyond
64M.
What wrong with 100M plus a switch?

> IC, but then it has to be included in the costs)
> - support of linux (preferrably "standard" linux)
> - at least 300MHz CPU clock, better more for performance reasons (may
> depend on actual architecture)
>
> Nice to have, but not crucial:
> - USB 2.0 integrated (option: could be done via PCI with special IC,
> but then it has to be included in the costs)
> - hardware accelerated encryption
> - hardware accelerated network operations, e.g. for TCP/IP etc.
>
> On first view the Intel network processors looked interesting, but they
> offer only 100Mb LAN (and most of them exceed the price limit
> anyway...).
>
> Any hints where to look are appreciated.
>
> Matthias

linnix wrote:

> > - low costs (if possible < 30 $ @ 10k)
>
> Difficult to do for the following reasons.

Just to clarify: This amount is meant only for the processor, all other
things have an extra budget. But still, it is a tough constraint...
If there processors matching my wish list but costing something above
30$ then I would like to learn about them, too.


> > - stable and well-supported platform
> > - PCI integrated (33MHz/32bit, no PCI-X, maybe PCIe could be
> > interesting if it is already available as integrated peripheral)
> > - Gigabit LAN integrated (option: could be done via PCI with special
>
> To support Gigabit, you probably need 64 bits PCI and faster than
> 300MHz CPU.

Regarding PCI we have to assume that PCI 33MHz/32bit is sufficient,
since we do not need to transmit continously 1 Gbps, but the device
will experience periods where it has to transmit say 150-200 Mbps for
several minutes. Most of the time the data rate will be even below
100Mbps.
On the other hand, if the Gb-LAN interface would be an integrated
peripheral of the processor then the (external) PCI bus would not have
to carry the network load.

Regarding CPU I agree. 300MHz seems to be the absolute lower limit
assuming a powerful processor architecture, but more realistic are >=
500MHz.


> What wrong with 100M plus a switch?

Sometimes we need data rates above 100 Mbps directly from the
processor.

Any hints where to look are appreciated.

Matthias

On 10 Jan 2006 00:07:05 -0800, "Matthias" <> wrote:

>linnix wrote:
>
>> > - low costs (if possible < 30 $ @ 10k)
>>
>> Difficult to do for the following reasons.
>
>Just to clarify: This amount is meant only for the processor, all other
>things have an extra budget. But still, it is a tough constraint...
>If there processors matching my wish list but costing something above
>30$ then I would like to learn about them, too.
>
>
>> > - stable and well-supported platform
>> > - PCI integrated (33MHz/32bit, no PCI-X, maybe PCIe could be
>> > interesting if it is already available as integrated peripheral)
>> > - Gigabit LAN integrated (option: could be done via PCI with special
>>
>> To support Gigabit, you probably need 64 bits PCI and faster than
>> 300MHz CPU.
>
>Regarding PCI we have to assume that PCI 33MHz/32bit is sufficient,
>since we do not need to transmit continously 1 Gbps, but the device
>will experience periods where it has to transmit say 150-200 Mbps for
>several minutes. Most of the time the data rate will be even below
>100Mbps.
>On the other hand, if the Gb-LAN interface would be an integrated
>peripheral of the processor then the (external) PCI bus would not have
>to carry the network load.
>
>Regarding CPU I agree. 300MHz seems to be the absolute lower limit
>assuming a powerful processor architecture, but more realistic are >=
>500MHz.
>
>
>> What wrong with 100M plus a switch?
>
>Sometimes we need data rates above 100 Mbps directly from the
>processor.
>
>Any hints where to look are appreciated.

What about multiple 100M links ? There are quite a few 32-bit
processors with 4x embedded 100M ethernet interfaces. Used in
cheap switches AFAIK.

Regards
Anton Erasmus

I am not sure about the price, but what you describe will
be covered by one of the Freescale PPC based devices.
Have a look at the 8548 (I believe fastest) or the 5200 (only
10/100 Ethernet, though, but has PCI 32/66).
You will probably be able to find some Linux for those,
and before too long I'll probably release a fullblown DPS
for the 5200.

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments

http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------

Matthias wrote:
> linnix wrote:
>
> > > - low costs (if possible < 30 $ @ 10k)

May I suggest the AMD Geode GX2/CS5536 (533 MHz), for $40 @1K. $30
@10K is possible, if we buy together. We only need a few hundred of
them. We are using RTL8100 (100M, 100 QFP), but you can use RTL8169
(1G, 128 QFP).

>
> > > - stable and well-supported platform

Works with Linux 2.2 and 2.4, but have not try 2.6 yet. Works with Dos
and Window 98 (customer requirement, don't ask why), have not try XP
yet.

> > > - PCI integrated (33MHz/32bit, no PCI-X, maybe PCIe could be

Yes for PCI.

> > > interesting if it is already available as integrated peripheral)
> > > - Gigabit LAN integrated (option: could be done via PCI with special

RTL8169 is possible.

Other features: VGA and LCD, USB 2.0, 64 bits DDR SDRAM, less than 10W
total power.

Major drawback: no CPU cache and lower CPU performance.

Didi wrote:

> I am not sure about the price, but what you describe will
> be covered by one of the Freescale PPC based devices.

Thanks; I had a look on the Freescales devices and found some very
interesting ones. Although they exceed the original price limit they
will be taken into consideration since they offer features that may
reduce the total chip count significantly.

Particularly the MPC8349E is attracting me (seems to be around 60$, but
I do not have accurate prices yet). Any comments on that one?

Regards,
Matthias

linnix wrote:
> May I suggest the AMD Geode GX2/CS5536 (533 MHz), for $40 @1K. $30
> @10K is possible, if we buy together. We only need a few hundred of
> them. We are using RTL8100 (100M, 100 QFP), but you can use RTL8169
> (1G, 128 QFP).
> [...]
> Major drawback: no CPU cache and lower CPU performance.

Thanks for your reply. Since we are trying to reduce the number of
"complex" chips this approach does not exactly fit. Also, the
performance may be an issue, then.

Nevertheless, this information is appreciated as well, since it helps
in decision finding.

So it seems that I will have a closer look on the Freescale devices...

Regards,
Matthias

Hi Matthias,

> Particularly the MPC8349E is attracting me (seems to be around 60$, but
> I do not have accurate prices yet). Any comments on that one?

looks good to me. The core is 603e compatible, this gives you the
standard FPU etc., and the first DPS I am likely to release for
outside-tgi use will be based exactly on it.

Apart from the 1mm pitched BGA which will be a tough route (perhaps
impossible on only two signal layers), I see nothing scary.

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments

http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------

Didi wrote:
> Hi Matthias,
>
> > Particularly the MPC8349E is attracting me (seems to be around 60$, but
> > I do not have accurate prices yet). Any comments on that one?

This cost around the same as the GX2/5536 pair, and similiar
complexity.

>
> looks good to me. The core is 603e compatible, this gives you the
> standard FPU etc., and the first DPS I am likely to release for
> outside-tgi use will be based exactly on it.
>
> Apart from the 1mm pitched BGA which will be a tough route (perhaps
> impossible on only two signal layers), I see nothing scary.

It's possible, but expensive for 2 signals + 2 planes. You would need
0.4 pad, 0.2 holes and 0.2 spacing. We just got a batch of such
boards, with 30% failure (not passing the board testing) at the
factory.

>
> Dimiter
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
>
> http://www.tgi-sci.com
> ------------------------------------------------------