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Replacing BH6 v 1.01 "caps"

 
 
Micke W
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      11-01-2006, 05:19 PM
My trusty old BH6 v 1.01 is having intermittent boot problems and
spontaneous reboots.
All capacitors look OK (no bulging, no leaking) but I'd like to
replace them to see if it cures the board...

There used to be a BH6 "kit information" (which ones to replace,
and their values) om "Homie's" homepage, but that's removed now
(and he hasn't responded to email), so I would like to know:

* Should I change/replace all 13 "large" (470 and 1000 uF)
capacitors located between the slot 1 and ATX sockets?

* If I recall correctly, "Homie" suggested that some "caps"
could/should be replaced with a larger capacitor (higher
capacitance) than the orginal ones. Correct? If so - which should
be "up-rated" and to what value?

I'd be very grateful for any help!!

/ mw
 
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Paul
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-01-2006, 07:12 PM
Micke W wrote:
> My trusty old BH6 v 1.01 is having intermittent boot problems and
> spontaneous reboots.
> All capacitors look OK (no bulging, no leaking) but I'd like to
> replace them to see if it cures the board...
>
> There used to be a BH6 "kit information" (which ones to replace,
> and their values) om "Homie's" homepage, but that's removed now
> (and he hasn't responded to email), so I would like to know:
>
> * Should I change/replace all 13 "large" (470 and 1000 uF)
> capacitors located between the slot 1 and ATX sockets?
>
> * If I recall correctly, "Homie" suggested that some "caps"
> could/should be replaced with a larger capacitor (higher
> capacitance) than the orginal ones. Correct? If so - which should
> be "up-rated" and to what value?
>
> I'd be very grateful for any help!!
>
> / mw


There is a FAQ here about caps. Check out the seventh paragraph
down. Larger caps are not always the answer.

http://www.motherboardrepair.com/faq.do

There is aome good advice on capacitor selection, in the datasheet
for the Vcore voltage regulator chip on your motherboard. They
explain in the datasheet, about ESR, ESL, capacitor AC current rating,
and capacitance. All of those can be factors in a Vcore design.
To get enough current rating, is one reason for using a large
number of capacitors in parallel. The actual capacitance value
in that case, is not what they are focused on.

In terms of some of the other (non-Vcore) caps, those caps can
be sitting across the PSU power rails. A PSU has a limit as to
how much capacitance it can drive, and maintain adequate phase
margin. Using more than that amount of capacitance could lead to
oscillation. Not that I expect you could add enough capacitors
to do that. (One of the specs from formfactors.org has
recommendations for PSU manufacturers, as to how much
capacitance a PSU should be able to stand, and remain stable.)

The safest thing to do, is stick with the existing values.
And don't "overengineer" your replacement. Replacing all
the "ordinary" caps, with Sanyo Oscons, would be changing
the circuit parameters in a radical way, and may not have
the results you would expect. If you are replacing ordinary
electrolytic caps, use more of the same type, and don't
change to, say, a solid electrolyte.

If you need info on sources of caps, good and bad types,
this site is another possible source of info.

http://www.badcaps.net/

And Gary also provided suggestions on capacitor type.

http://www.motherboardrepair.com/part_information.do

For ordinary electrolytic caps, the properties are
proportional to the volume occupied by the part.
Withstanding voltage and capacitance affect how large
a part will be. When you see "smaller than normal"
parts on a motherboard, and cannot find a same-sized
replacement, for the same capacitance and voltage,
it makes you wonder how the smaller component "cheated"
to do the job.

If you've never recapped a board before, be aware that
some circuit boards, use tiny holes for the cap wires.
This can make it difficult to replace them. It is easy
to damage the foil while doing it. Also, the holes are
plated with metal, and there can be internal conducting
layers touching the plated thru hole in the board.
Drilling out any arbitrary hole in a motherboard is
a no-no. The only tools you are allowed, are soldering
iron, and solder removal tools like solder-sucker or
solder wick. You may find, after trying to do just one
of the caps, that the effort isn't worth it. Practicing
on a duff board first, to get the hang of it,
is important. While I've had the misfortune to do
a few of these, even with the proper equipment (vacuum
desoldering station), the job is still difficult and
frustrating. The job would be easy, if the board makers
used larger holes for the caps.

Paul
 
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Puddin' Man
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-02-2006, 08:29 PM
On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 18:19:30 +0100, "Micke W" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>My trusty old BH6 v 1.01 is having intermittent boot problems and
>spontaneous reboots.
>All capacitors look OK (no bulging, no leaking) but I'd like to
>replace them to see if it cures the board...


Safe to assume that either the unit was not overclocked
-or- you reset it to spec and got the same problems?

Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old.
 
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Micke W
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2006, 03:24 PM
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 18:19:30 +0100, "Micke W"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> My trusty old BH6 v 1.01 is having intermittent boot problems
>> and spontaneous reboots.
>> All capacitors look OK (no bulging, no leaking) but I'd like to
>> replace them to see if it cures the board...

>
> Safe to assume that either the unit was not overclocked
> -or- you reset it to spec and got the same problems?
>
> Puddin'--


Thanks for your reply!

Well, I actually had forgotten, but my Celeron Tualatin 1.2 GHz
CPU is (quite modestly) overclocked...
It's been running @ 1344 MHz (112 MHz bus, default core voltage),
for the past four years without any problems at all.

But... could that small overclocking (12%) really cause these boot
problems after four years??

I haven't yet tried to run it @ 1200 MHz, but I will.
Will also try "upping" the core voltage from the default 1.50V to
1.55 or 1.60V to see if that would help. (According to the specs,
max core voltage is 1.75V.)

/ mw

 
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Micke W
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2006, 03:24 PM
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> There is a FAQ here about caps. Check out the seventh paragraph
> down. Larger caps are not always the answer.
>
> http://www.motherboardrepair.com/faq.do

...

> The safest thing to do, is stick with the existing values.
> And don't "overengineer" your replacement. Replacing all
> the "ordinary" caps, with Sanyo Oscons, would be changing
> the circuit parameters in a radical way, and may not have
> the results you would expect. If you are replacing ordinary
> electrolytic caps, use more of the same type, and don't
> change to, say, a solid electrolyte.
>
> If you need info on sources of caps, good and bad types,
> this site is another possible source of info.
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/
>
> And Gary also provided suggestions on capacitor type.
>
> http://www.motherboardrepair.com/part_information.do

...

> Paul


Thanks for your reply!

Read and understood. If I go on changing the caps, I will use
Rubycon ZL-series, according to "Homie's" recommendations.
(Panasonic and Nichicon seems unavailable in Sweden.)

I'm well aware of the fact that it's safest to stick with the
original values (assuming the engineers at Abit knew what they
were doing... :-).
I am, however, more or less convinced that "Homie" (Gary)
recommended changing the values of some of the capacitors. I hoped
that someone would remember this, but apparently not...

Anyway, I had forgotten :-) that I was mildly overclocking the CPU
(see another posting), so I will try running it at specified speed
before deciding how to proceed.

In the mean time, I keep on hoping for a reply from "Homie".

/ mw

 
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Puddin' Man
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2006, 03:55 PM
On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 16:24:06 +0100, "Micke W" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 18:19:30 +0100, "Micke W"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> My trusty old BH6 v 1.01 is having intermittent boot problems
>>> and spontaneous reboots.
>>> All capacitors look OK (no bulging, no leaking) but I'd like to
>>> replace them to see if it cures the board...

>>
>> Safe to assume that either the unit was not overclocked
>> -or- you reset it to spec and got the same problems?
>>
>> Puddin'--

>
>Thanks for your reply!
>
>Well, I actually had forgotten,


As did I, a few years ago ...

>but my Celeron Tualatin 1.2 GHz
>CPU is (quite modestly) overclocked...
>It's been running @ 1344 MHz (112 MHz bus, default core voltage),
>for the past four years without any problems at all.
>
>But... could that small overclocking (12%) really cause these boot
>problems after four years??


Your caps *look* OK, and you don't know what causes
the problem? Could be "most anything".

>I haven't yet tried to run it @ 1200 MHz, but I will.
>Will also try "upping" the core voltage from the default 1.50V to
>1.55 or 1.60V to see if that would help. (According to the specs,
>max core voltage is 1.75V.)


Reason I mentioned it, I ran a BH6 with Coppermine 566 at
850 mhz for 2+ years, no problem. Then it became unstable.
Caps looked fine, etc. I finally set it back to 566 and
it became stable. I ran it like that for another year
or so.

Anytime you've got a unit OC'd and with a mysterious
problem, set it back to spec for testing. You can
always set it back to OC.

Let us know what you find ...

Cheers,
Puddin'

>/ mw


Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old.
 
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Micke W
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-04-2006, 03:05 PM
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2006 16:24:06 +0100, "Micke W"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 18:19:30 +0100, "Micke W"
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My trusty old BH6 v 1.01 is having intermittent boot problems
>>>> and spontaneous reboots.
>>>> All capacitors look OK (no bulging, no leaking) but I'd like
>>>> to replace them to see if it cures the board...
>>>
>>> Safe to assume that either the unit was not overclocked
>>> -or- you reset it to spec and got the same problems?
>>>
>>> Puddin'--

>>
>> Thanks for your reply!
>>
>> Well, I actually had forgotten,

>
> As did I, a few years ago ...
>
>> but my Celeron Tualatin 1.2 GHz
>> CPU is (quite modestly) overclocked...
>> It's been running @ 1344 MHz (112 MHz bus, default core
>> voltage), for the past four years without any problems at all.
>>
>> But... could that small overclocking (12%) really cause these
>> boot problems after four years??

>
> Your caps *look* OK, and you don't know what causes
> the problem? Could be "most anything".
>
>> I haven't yet tried to run it @ 1200 MHz, but I will.
>> Will also try "upping" the core voltage from the default 1.50V
>> to
>> 1.55 or 1.60V to see if that would help. (According to the
>> specs, max core voltage is 1.75V.)

>
> Reason I mentioned it, I ran a BH6 with Coppermine 566 at
> 850 mhz for 2+ years, no problem. Then it became unstable.
> Caps looked fine, etc. I finally set it back to 566 and
> it became stable. I ran it like that for another year
> or so.
>
> Anytime you've got a unit OC'd and with a mysterious
> problem, set it back to spec for testing. You can
> always set it back to OC.
>
> Let us know what you find ...
>
> Cheers,
> Puddin'


I *think* (and hope...) I have found the cause of the
instability...

Running the CPU at specified speed didn't change a thing. Same
behaviour.
Next step was trying a core voltage raise to 1.55 V.
When I should change the setting (strappings on the Upgradeware
adapter) I noticed that one of the flimsy "universal retention"
brackets (originally supplied with the BH6) was slighty loose.
After 4 yrs of faithful service, one of the two lousy plastic
"expansion pins" couldn't hold the retention bracket firmly to the
PCB...
The adapter + cpu + heatsink + fan assembly is quite heavy, and
just very slightly touching the heatsink, moving the whole
assembly in any direction, made the computer reboot and/or
"hang"...

Got an old Pentium II retention bracket, which is mounted to the
motherboard with brass screws, from a friend.
Now the mobo runs stably again, and applying mild pressure to the
"CPU-adapter assembly" does "nada".
I'm happy - at least for the time being... :-)

/ mw

 
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sdlomi2
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-07-2006, 05:30 AM



"Micke W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eifn0f$nnl$(E-Mail Removed)...
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> There is a FAQ here about caps. Check out the seventh paragraph
>> down. Larger caps are not always the answer.
>>
>> http://www.motherboardrepair.com/faq.do

> ...
>
>> The safest thing to do, is stick with the existing values.
>> And don't "overengineer" your replacement. Replacing all
>> the "ordinary" caps, with Sanyo Oscons, would be changing
>> the circuit parameters in a radical way, and may not have
>> the results you would expect. If you are replacing ordinary
>> electrolytic caps, use more of the same type, and don't
>> change to, say, a solid electrolyte.
>>
>> If you need info on sources of caps, good and bad types,
>> this site is another possible source of info.
>>
>> http://www.badcaps.net/
>>
>> And Gary also provided suggestions on capacitor type.
>>
>> http://www.motherboardrepair.com/part_information.do

> ...
>
>> Paul

>
> Thanks for your reply!
>
> Read and understood. If I go on changing the caps, I will use
> Rubycon ZL-series, according to "Homie's" recommendations.
> (Panasonic and Nichicon seems unavailable in Sweden.)
>
> I'm well aware of the fact that it's safest to stick with the
> original values (assuming the engineers at Abit knew what they
> were doing... :-).
> I am, however, more or less convinced that "Homie" (Gary)
> recommended changing the values of some of the capacitors. I hoped
> that someone would remember this, but apparently not...
>
> Anyway, I had forgotten :-) that I was mildly overclocking the CPU
> (see another posting), so I will try running it at specified speed
> before deciding how to proceed.
>
> In the mean time, I keep on hoping for a reply from "Homie".
>
> / mw
>

Try looking for info from "Shep"--Google ought to find him if you
combine his name with bulging mobo-caps. He's got a teriffic site that has
helped me with my BE-6 Abits, BX-6 Abits, Powerleap adaptors to install
Tualatins, etc. Got good service for an extra year or 2 by adapting faster
cpu's to those boards--both for me and for my girls. HTH, s


 
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sdlomi2
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-07-2006, 05:43 AM



"Micke W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eifn0f$nnl$(E-Mail Removed)...
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> There is a FAQ here about caps. Check out the seventh paragraph
>> down. Larger caps are not always the answer.
>>
>> http://www.motherboardrepair.com/faq.do

> ...
>
>> The safest thing to do, is stick with the existing values.
>> And don't "overengineer" your replacement. Replacing all
>> the "ordinary" caps, with Sanyo Oscons, would be changing
>> the circuit parameters in a radical way, and may not have
>> the results you would expect. If you are replacing ordinary
>> electrolytic caps, use more of the same type, and don't
>> change to, say, a solid electrolyte.
>>
>> If you need info on sources of caps, good and bad types,
>> this site is another possible source of info.
>>
>> http://www.badcaps.net/
>>
>> And Gary also provided suggestions on capacitor type.
>>
>> http://www.motherboardrepair.com/part_information.do

> ...
>
>> Paul

>
> Thanks for your reply!
>
> Read and understood. If I go on changing the caps, I will use
> Rubycon ZL-series, according to "Homie's" recommendations.
> (Panasonic and Nichicon seems unavailable in Sweden.)
>
> I'm well aware of the fact that it's safest to stick with the
> original values (assuming the engineers at Abit knew what they
> were doing... :-).
> I am, however, more or less convinced that "Homie" (Gary)
> recommended changing the values of some of the capacitors. I hoped
> that someone would remember this, but apparently not...
>
> Anyway, I had forgotten :-) that I was mildly overclocking the CPU
> (see another posting), so I will try running it at specified speed
> before deciding how to proceed.
>
> In the mean time, I keep on hoping for a reply from "Homie".
>
> / mw
>


Micke, here's a neat site showing replacing the caps. HTH, s. >
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1081/ <


 
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Micke W
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-07-2006, 02:14 PM
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Micke, here's a neat site showing replacing the caps. HTH,
> s. > http://www.overclockers.com/tips1081/ <


Thanks for your replies, "sdlomi2"!

Seems like my BH6 was suffering from "bad contact" in the CPU Slot
(see my posting from 2006-11-04) caused by a defect CPU retainer.
After fixing that, everything has been working OK!
I will, however, follow your advice - search for "Shep" and study
the link you provided.
Who knows if/when I need to change the capacitors...? :-)

/ mw

 
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