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Running laptop on AC power with battery removed

 
 
starved@rock.com
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      08-13-2009, 01:22 PM
Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this time
the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power continously.

According to http://www.batteryuniversity.com and other sources,
leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and never on
battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.

So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's in a
ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.

The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it back in
the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store it in the
refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated indefinitely.

My questions are:

1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator before
it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?

2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
buildup in an empty battery compartment?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

- Dave
 
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BillW50
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      08-13-2009, 02:04 PM
In
news:(E-Mail Removed),
(E-Mail Removed) typed on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:22:15 -0700 (PDT):
> Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this time
> the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power continously.
>
> According to http://www.batteryuniversity.com and other sources,
> leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and never on
> battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.
>
> So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's in a
> ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.
>
> The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it back in
> the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store it in the
> refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated indefinitely.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator before
> it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?
>
> 2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
> buildup in an empty battery compartment?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


You don't need to keep it in the refrigerator for one. I keep my dozen
or so Li-Ion batteries in a drawer. While keeping the battery 40%
charged figure is thrown around as being best, I use 80% to 90% range
for storing and the batteries has lasted over 10 years this way.

How often to recharge them? It depends on how much the internal
resistance is. This varies from battery to battery. Typically most loses
1% to 2% per month. So every 3, 6, or even 12 months should be okay.
Pushing them 3 years in storage is where I find is often the trip point.
As the voltage of the cells are close to or has exceeded the minimum
safe levels and maybe too far gone by then.

Contacts? I never had a problem with corrosion with the battery
contacts.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2


 
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starved@rock.com
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2009, 02:19 PM
On Aug 13, 9:04*am, "BillW50" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Innews:(E-Mail Removed),
> (E-Mail Removed) typed on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:22:15 -0700 (PDT):
>
>
>
>
>
> > Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this time
> > the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power continously.

>
> > According tohttp://www.batteryuniversity.comand other sources,
> > leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and never on
> > battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.

>
> > So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's in a
> > ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.

>
> > The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it back in
> > the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store it in the
> > refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated indefinitely.

>
> > My questions are:

>
> > 1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator before
> > it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?

>
> > 2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
> > buildup in an empty battery compartment?

>
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

>
> You don't need to keep it in the refrigerator for one. I keep my dozen
> or so Li-Ion batteries in a drawer. While keeping the battery 40%
> charged figure is thrown around as being best, I use 80% to 90% range
> for storing and the batteries has lasted over 10 years this way.
>
> How often to recharge them? It depends on how much the internal
> resistance is. This varies from battery to battery. Typically most loses
> 1% to 2% per month. So every 3, 6, or even 12 months should be okay.
> Pushing them 3 years in storage is where I find is often the trip point.
> As the voltage of the cells are close to or has exceeded the minimum
> safe levels and maybe too far gone by then.
>
> Contacts? I never had a problem with corrosion with the battery
> contacts.
>
> --
> Bill
> Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Thanks for the responses.

My plan is based on this information that I've found:

http://laptopbatterynews.com/2009/04...ry-performance

Remove Battery when Using AC/DC Power Source
Laptop batteries are in constant charge and discharge state when you
have the AC/DC adapter plugged into the computer and using the
computer with the battery installed. Removing the battery while using
the AC/DC adapter will help prolong the life span of the battey since
most last 500-800 charging cycles or 18-24 months. These frequent
shallow charges do not allow all of the battery cells to properly
condition for optimum battery performance.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-19.htm

Keep batteries in a cool and dry storage area. Refrigeration is
recommended but freezers should be avoided. When refrigerated, the
battery should be placed in a plastic bag to protect against
condensation

Do not fully charge lithium and nickel-based batteries before storage.
Keep them partially charged and apply a full charge before use. Store
lithium-ion at about 40% state-of-charge (3.75-3.80V/cell open
terminal). Lead-acid batteries must be stored fully charged.

 
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Buffalo
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      08-13-2009, 02:34 PM


Meat Plow wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:22:15 -0700 (PDT), (E-Mail Removed)te:
>
>> Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this time
>> the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power
>> continously.
>>
>> According to http://www.batteryuniversity.com and other sources,
>> leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and never
>> on battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.
>>
>> So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's in a
>> ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.
>>
>> The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it back in
>> the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store it in the
>> refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated indefinitely.
>>
>> My questions are:
>>
>> 1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator before
>> it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?
>>
>> 2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
>> buildup in an empty battery compartment?
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
>>
>> - Dave

>
> Lithium Ion batteries have a finite number of charges. Has nothing to
> do with leaving it in the laptop while on AC provided the power
> functions of the laptop work as designed.


From the link the OP supplied:

"Storage in a cool place slows the aging process of lithium-ion (and other
chemistries). Manufacturers recommend storage temperatures of 15C (59F).
In addition, the battery should be partially charged during storage. The
manufacturer recommends a 40% charge."

"Lithium-ion offers good charging performance at cold and hot temperatures.
The acceptable charge range is 0 to 45C (32F to 113F). It is
recommended, however, to reduce the charge rate to less than 1C at
temperatures of 5C to 0C (41F to 32F).
It is important to know that consumer grade lithium-ion batteries cannot be
charged below 0C (32F). Although the packs appear to be charging normally
at freezing temperatures, the cell impedance goes up and the acceptance of
the ions on the anode is drastically reduced."

" Quality chargers reduce the charge current at cold temperatures and avert
a charge altogether below 0C (32F). When charging a cold battery, allow
the pack to warm up before putting it into the charger. Discharging a
lithium-ion battery at cold temperature does not cause any harm. The lower
performance will only be noticeable while the pack is dwelling in the cold
state."

" The recommended storage temperature for most batteries is 15C (59F).
While lead-acid batteries must always be kept at full charge, nickel and
lithium-based chemistries should be stored at 40% state-of-charge (SoC)."

"Lithium-ion powers most of today's laptop computers. The battery
compartment on many laptops rises to about 45C (113F) during operation.
The combination of high charge level and elevated ambient temperature
presents an unfavorable condition for the battery. This explains the short
lifespan of many laptop batteries."

Buffalo


 
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Happy Oyster
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-13-2009, 02:45 PM
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:22:15 -0700 (PDT), (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this time
>the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power continously.
>
>According to http://www.batteryuniversity.com and other sources,
>leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and never on
>battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.
>
>So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's in a
>ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.



HELLO, NO! Not in the fridge!!!

You have to look at the optimum storage temprature. That - so my guess - is
somewhere between 14 to 20 C

Also, I would have loaded it fully before taking it into storage.


>The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it back in
>the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store it in the
>refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated indefinitely.


No, all the time up to at leat 90 percent!


>My questions are:
>
>1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator before
>it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?


In the cold it degrades fast.


>2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
>buildup in an empty battery compartment?


YES! It must be a DRY place.

--
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credit card account. If you are a customer of Globat.com, never give
them any credit card information. If you can't erase the information,
then do delete the old card and get a new one! **** WARNING ****
 
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Buffalo
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      08-13-2009, 02:49 PM


(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this time
> the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power continously.
>
> According to http://www.batteryuniversity.com and other sources,
> leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and never on
> battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.
>
> So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's in a
> ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.
>
> The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it back in
> the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store it in the
> refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated indefinitely.
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator before
> it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?


According to the article in the above posted link, it states that a
Lithium-ion battery stored at 40% charge in a cool place will be able to
recover 98% of its capacity after 1 year.
If it is stored at 100% charge, it will be able to recover only 94% of its
capacity after 1 year.
If stored a 25C (around room temp, but much cooler than it would be in the
laptop):
40% charge = 96% after 1 yr
100% charge = 80% after 1 yr
If stored in the laptop (around 45C+) it would probably lose over 40% of its
capacity after 1 yr or less; it would be at full charge most of the time it
was in the laptop.



> 2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
> buildup in an empty battery compartment?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
>
> - Dave


I think you are doing the right thing to prolong the laptop battery.
When you take it out of the fridge, leave it in the ziplock bag until it
warms up and don't charge it until it is around room temp and there is no
moisture on the battery or its contacts.
Putting a cold object in a warm moist room will cause a lot of condensation
to form on the cold object.
Buffalo



 
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Buffalo
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      08-13-2009, 02:52 PM


Meat Plow wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:34:41 -0600, "Buffalo"
> <(E-Mail Removed)>wrote:
>
>>
>> Meat Plow wrote:
>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:22:15 -0700 (PDT), (E-Mail Removed)te:
>>>
>>>> Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this
>>>> time the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power
>>>> continously.
>>>>
>>>> According to http://www.batteryuniversity.com and other sources,
>>>> leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and never
>>>> on battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.
>>>>
>>>> So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's
>>>> in a ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.
>>>>
>>>> The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it back
>>>> in the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store it in the
>>>> refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated indefinitely.
>>>>
>>>> My questions are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator
>>>> before it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?
>>>>
>>>> 2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
>>>> buildup in an empty battery compartment?
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> - Dave
>>>
>>> Lithium Ion batteries have a finite number of charges. Has nothing
>>> to do with leaving it in the laptop while on AC provided the power
>>> functions of the laptop work as designed.

>>
>> From the link the OP supplied:

>
> <snip>
>
> Doesn't apply to my experience, YMMV. Refrigeration may increase the
> shelf life but the bottom line is still charge cycles.


I agree with you on the charge cycles being finite and one of the limiting
factors.
Leaving it in the laptop subjects it to above room temps and shortens its
ability to regain its capacity.
The chart on the link posted by Dave was pretty enlightening.
Buffalo


 
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BillW50
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      08-13-2009, 03:17 PM
In
news:(E-Mail Removed),
(E-Mail Removed) typed on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:19:47 -0700 (PDT):
> Thanks for the responses.
>
> My plan is based on this information that I've found:
>
> http://laptopbatterynews.com/2009/04...ry-performance
>
> Remove Battery when Using AC/DC Power Source
> Laptop batteries are in constant charge and discharge state when you
> have the AC/DC adapter plugged into the computer and using the
> computer with the battery installed. Removing the battery while using
> the AC/DC adapter will help prolong the life span of the battey since
> most last 500-800 charging cycles or 18-24 months. These frequent
> shallow charges do not allow all of the battery cells to properly
> condition for optimum battery performance.
>
> http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-19.htm
>
> Keep batteries in a cool and dry storage area. Refrigeration is
> recommended but freezers should be avoided. When refrigerated, the
> battery should be placed in a plastic bag to protect against
> condensation
>
> Do not fully charge lithium and nickel-based batteries before storage.
> Keep them partially charged and apply a full charge before use. Store
> lithium-ion at about 40% state-of-charge (3.75-3.80V/cell open
> terminal). Lead-acid batteries must be stored fully charged.


I agree with most everything. Although that 500-800 recharges are
partial recharges IMHO. As if you run them down all of the time before
recharging, the number is usually within 200 to 250 range. And that 18
to 24 month figure is true if left in the laptop. Not true if left out
of the laptop. As it will last 3 or more times longer than that.

The reason being is that the heat from the laptop (some are cooler than
others) keeps the battery at higher temperatures. Which in the short run
doesn't mean much. But day after day does degrade the battery which
makes it useless in about 18 to 24 months for most laptops.

Another side effect of leaving the battery in all of the time on AC, is
that most laptops will recharge the battery again once it drops down to
96%. So the battery will be in this 96% to 100% charged state the whole
time it is left in the laptop on AC. Also not so good for the battery.

And this last reason why not to leave it in the laptop which I am pretty
much alone with this opinion. Is that laptop manufactures want to boost
long battery life. And to do this, they charge the cells to 4.2v per
cell. Great for longer running times. Bad for battery longevity. As
stopping the charge when the battery hits 4.1v per cell makes it lasts
so much longer IMHO.

So there you go and good luck!

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) - Windows XP SP2


 
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iws
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      08-13-2009, 03:26 PM
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
| Brand new Dell Inspiron 1545 laptop purchased last week. At this time
| the system will be used as a desktop, running on AC power continously.
|
| According to http://www.batteryuniversity.com and other sources,
| leaving the battery in - while always running on AC power and never on
| battery power - will shorten the life of the battery.
|
| So the battery's been removed, and with a 40% charge on it, it's in a
| ziplock bag and stored in the refrigerator.
|
| The plan is to remove it from storage after some time, put it back in
| the laptop, recharge it back up to 40%, and then store it in the
| refrigerator again. This cycle will be repeated indefinitely.
|
| My questions are:
|
| 1. How long can the battery remain stored in the refrigerator before
| it has to be recharged? One month? Two months?
|
| 2. Should I be concerned about corrosion of the contacts or dust
| buildup in an empty battery compartment?
|
| Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
|
| - Dave

If you remove the battery while on AC, make sure you use a UPS to avoid
unexpected power loss and data loss/corruption. Frankly, I would not keep a
battery at 40% charge because then I'm screwed if I have to use the laptop
on battery power on short notice without time to fully charge it. I've found
that my laptop batteries typically last longer than two years albeit with a
somewhat reduced capacity. But then I don't use my laptop as a desktop
substitute. If I get 2-3 years of useful life without all fuss of storing
half charged batteries, then I'm happy. After all, the cost of a new $100
battery amortized over three years is $0.09 a day.


 
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chuckcar
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      08-13-2009, 03:43 PM
(E-Mail Removed) wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On Aug 13, 9:04*am, "BillW50" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Innews:(E-Mail Removed)
>> , (E-Mail Removed) typed on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:22:15 -0700 (PDT):


> http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-19.htm
>
> Keep batteries in a cool and dry storage area. Refrigeration is
> recommended but freezers should be avoided. When refrigerated, the
> battery should be placed in a plastic bag to protect against
> condensation
>

Wouldn't the water condense out of the air in the bag? Evacuating the bag
in some way would seem prudent if possible even if just with a straw.


--
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