Saffire XP1600 driver install problems / how does ATI driver handle OEM cards?

I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
explain or correct my conclusions.

We've been round the houses several times restoring the Standard VGA
drivers, purging any old ATI stuff etc. etc. and I'm confident that's
not the problem with running the Easy Install (neither V6.2 or V6.6 as
supplied will work).

What interests me, is that none of the .INF files (we have C2_30152 and
C2_34393 from different versions) have entries that match our card's PCI
Vendor ID (0x71CD). This explains why it's not possible to install the
drivers in the usual way from Device manager using Plug and Play.

I note that the INSTALL.INI and C2_*****.INI files have a large number
of entries which appear to map device ID's to SubVendor and SubId codes.
I can imagine that this might be a mechanism for linking the OEM card ID
to the standard type - though it seems a cack-handed way to do it. Does
anybody know if this is indeed how it works?

In any event, our Device ID and Sub-IDs do not appear in either of these
..INIs so I don't think it can work anyway, even if that was the
intention.

But ATI tech support, who aren't really into it as this level, assure me
that it "just works" and given that this doesn't seem to be a common
complaint in the various forums I have to doubt my own conclusions.

Can somebody put me out of my misery?

PS by modifying the .inf to include my card Device ID, I can load the
drivers from Device Manager, but end up with a Code 10 error.

TIA
--
Alan Hall

On Feb 16, 11:40 am, usen...@databuzz.co.uk wrote:
> I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
> XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
> now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
> explain or correct my conclusions.
>
> We've been round the houses several times restoring the Standard VGA
> drivers, purging any old ATI stuff etc. etc. and I'm confident that's
> not the problem with running the Easy Install (neither V6.2 or V6.6 as
> supplied will work).
>
> What interests me, is that none of the .INF files (we have C2_30152 and
> C2_34393 from different versions) have entries that match our card's PCI
> Vendor ID (0x71CD). This explains why it's not possible to install the
> drivers in the usual way from Device manager using Plug and Play.
>
> I note that the INSTALL.INI and C2_*****.INI files have a large number
> of entries which appear to map device ID's to SubVendor and SubId codes.
> I can imagine that this might be a mechanism for linking the OEM card ID
> to the standard type - though it seems a cack-handed way to do it. Does
> anybody know if this is indeed how it works?
>
> In any event, our Device ID and Sub-IDs do not appear in either of these
> .INIs so I don't think it can work anyway, even if that was the
> intention.
>
> But ATI tech support, who aren't really into it as this level, assure me
> that it "just works" and given that this doesn't seem to be a common
> complaint in the various forums I have to doubt my own conclusions.
>
> Can somebody put me out of my misery?
>
> PS by modifying the .inf to include my card Device ID, I can load the
> drivers from Device Manager, but end up with a Code 10 error.
>
> TIA
> --
> Alan Hall

Have you tried Omega Drivers? They bascially have a core ATI driver
with different tools, and work with all Radeon cards regardless of
manufacturer. www.omegadrivers.net

James

In message < .com>,
James <> writes
>On Feb 16, 11:40 am, usen...@databuzz.co.uk wrote:
>> I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
>> XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
>> now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
>> explain or correct my conclusions.
>>
>> We've been round the houses several times restoring the Standard VGA
>> drivers, purging any old ATI stuff etc. etc. and I'm confident that's
>> not the problem with running the Easy Install (neither V6.2 or V6.6 as
>> supplied will work).
>>
>> What interests me, is that none of the .INF files (we have C2_30152 and
>> C2_34393 from different versions) have entries that match our card's PCI
>> Vendor ID (0x71CD). This explains why it's not possible to install the
>> drivers in the usual way from Device manager using Plug and Play.
>>
>> I note that the INSTALL.INI and C2_*****.INI files have a large number
>> of entries which appear to map device ID's to SubVendor and SubId codes.
>> I can imagine that this might be a mechanism for linking the OEM card ID
>> to the standard type - though it seems a cack-handed way to do it. Does
>> anybody know if this is indeed how it works?
>>
>> In any event, our Device ID and Sub-IDs do not appear in either of these
>> .INIs so I don't think it can work anyway, even if that was the
>> intention.
>>
>> But ATI tech support, who aren't really into it as this level, assure me
>> that it "just works" and given that this doesn't seem to be a common
>> complaint in the various forums I have to doubt my own conclusions.
>>
>> Can somebody put me out of my misery?
>>
>> PS by modifying the .inf to include my card Device ID, I can load the
>> drivers from Device Manager, but end up with a Code 10 error.
>>
>> TIA
>> --
>> Alan Hall
>
>Have you tried Omega Drivers? They bascially have a core ATI driver
>with different tools, and work with all Radeon cards regardless of
>manufacturer. www.omegadrivers.net
>
>James

Hi James,

In fact, since my original post, I downloaded the Omega Drivers but
can't try them as I don't have the machine here with me.

Interestingly, the Omega .INF file has got many more PCI_DEV_ID entries
than the ATI one. Several entries are very close to mine, but no exact
match. So I'd bet it won't work either. I guess the Omega author has
done a good job of gathering the 3rd party card data, but inevitably
it's not complete. I've sent him my card details in case it helps.

I also see that the Omega .INI files do not have the lengthy tables
involving sub-ID's.

Happy to be proved wrong!

--
Alan Hall

On Feb 16, 2:37 pm, Alan Hall <a...@databuzz.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <1171650013.589377.196...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups .com>,
> James <j...@idirect.com> writes
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Feb 16, 11:40 am, usen...@databuzz.co.uk wrote:
> >> I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
> >> XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
> >> now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
> >> explain or correct my conclusions.
>
> >> We've been round the houses several times restoring the Standard VGA
> >> drivers, purging any old ATI stuff etc. etc. and I'm confident that's
> >> not the problem with running the Easy Install (neither V6.2 or V6.6 as
> >> supplied will work).
>
> >> What interests me, is that none of the .INF files (we have C2_30152 and
> >> C2_34393 from different versions) have entries that match our card's PCI
> >> Vendor ID (0x71CD). This explains why it's not possible to install the
> >> drivers in the usual way from Device manager using Plug and Play.
>
> >> I note that the INSTALL.INI and C2_*****.INI files have a large number
> >> of entries which appear to map device ID's to SubVendor and SubId codes.
> >> I can imagine that this might be a mechanism for linking the OEM card ID
> >> to the standard type - though it seems a cack-handed way to do it. Does
> >> anybody know if this is indeed how it works?
>
> >> In any event, our Device ID and Sub-IDs do not appear in either of these
> >> .INIs so I don't think it can work anyway, even if that was the
> >> intention.
>
> >> But ATI tech support, who aren't really into it as this level, assure me
> >> that it "just works" and given that this doesn't seem to be a common
> >> complaint in the various forums I have to doubt my own conclusions.
>
> >> Can somebody put me out of my misery?
>
> >> PS by modifying the .inf to include my card Device ID, I can load the
> >> drivers from Device Manager, but end up with a Code 10 error.
>
> >> TIA
> >> --
> >> Alan Hall
>
> >Have you tried Omega Drivers? They bascially have a core ATI driver
> >with different tools, and work with all Radeon cards regardless of
> >manufacturer.www.omegadrivers.net
>
> >James
>
> Hi James,
>
> In fact, since my original post, I downloaded the Omega Drivers but
> can't try them as I don't have the machine here with me.
>
> Interestingly, the Omega .INF file has got many more PCI_DEV_ID entries
> than the ATI one. Several entries are very close to mine, but no exact
> match. So I'd bet it won't work either. I guess the Omega author has
> done a good job of gathering the 3rd party card data, but inevitably
> it's not complete. I've sent him my card details in case it helps.
>
> I also see that the Omega .INI files do not have the lengthy tables
> involving sub-ID's.
>
> Happy to be proved wrong!
>

As a datapoint I had no problem using Omega drivers on a Sapphire x850
card and an HIS x1600 XT card.

I didn't have to do anything other than run the installer, after
insuring the ATI drivers were truly gone.

James

On Feb 16, 10:40 am, usen...@databuzz.co.uk wrote:
> I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
> XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
> now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
> explain or correct my conclusions.
>

Maybe...
http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/support/drivers.php

In message <. com>, James
<> writes
>On Feb 16, 2:37 pm, Alan Hall <a...@databuzz.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <1171650013.589377.196...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups .com>,
>> James <j...@idirect.com> writes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Feb 16, 11:40 am, usen...@databuzz.co.uk wrote:
>> >> I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
>> >> XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
>> >> now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
>> >> explain or correct my conclusions.
>>
>> >> We've been round the houses several times restoring the Standard VGA
>> >> drivers, purging any old ATI stuff etc. etc. and I'm confident that's
>> >> not the problem with running the Easy Install (neither V6.2 or V6.6 as
>> >> supplied will work).
>>
>> >> What interests me, is that none of the .INF files (we have C2_30152 and
>> >> C2_34393 from different versions) have entries that match our card's PCI
>> >> Vendor ID (0x71CD). This explains why it's not possible to install the
>> >> drivers in the usual way from Device manager using Plug and Play.
>>
>> >> I note that the INSTALL.INI and C2_*****.INI files have a large number
>> >> of entries which appear to map device ID's to SubVendor and SubId codes.
>> >> I can imagine that this might be a mechanism for linking the OEM card ID
>> >> to the standard type - though it seems a cack-handed way to do it. Does
>> >> anybody know if this is indeed how it works?
>>
>> >> In any event, our Device ID and Sub-IDs do not appear in either of these
>> >> .INIs so I don't think it can work anyway, even if that was the
>> >> intention.
>>
>> >> But ATI tech support, who aren't really into it as this level, assure me
>> >> that it "just works" and given that this doesn't seem to be a common
>> >> complaint in the various forums I have to doubt my own conclusions.
>>
>> >> Can somebody put me out of my misery?
>>
>> >> PS by modifying the .inf to include my card Device ID, I can load the
>> >> drivers from Device Manager, but end up with a Code 10 error.
>>
>> >> TIA
>> >> --
>> >> Alan Hall
>>
>> >Have you tried Omega Drivers? They bascially have a core ATI driver
>> >with different tools, and work with all Radeon cards regardless of
>> >manufacturer.www.omegadrivers.net
>>
>> >James
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> In fact, since my original post, I downloaded the Omega Drivers but
>> can't try them as I don't have the machine here with me.
>>
>> Interestingly, the Omega .INF file has got many more PCI_DEV_ID entries
>> than the ATI one. Several entries are very close to mine, but no exact
>> match. So I'd bet it won't work either. I guess the Omega author has
>> done a good job of gathering the 3rd party card data, but inevitably
>> it's not complete. I've sent him my card details in case it helps.
>>
>> I also see that the Omega .INI files do not have the lengthy tables
>> involving sub-ID's.
>>
>> Happy to be proved wrong!
>>
>
>As a datapoint I had no problem using Omega drivers on a Sapphire x850
>card and an HIS x1600 XT card.
>
>I didn't have to do anything other than run the installer, after
>insuring the ATI drivers were truly gone.
>
>James

Thanks that's interesting. The Omega .INF file has no explicit mention
of a Sapphire X850, but of course it might be that it has the same
DEV_ID as one of the many other X850s. I don't know who HIS are!

--
Alan Hall

In message <. com>, Davej
<> writes
>On Feb 16, 10:40 am, usen...@databuzz.co.uk wrote:
>> I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
>> XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
>> now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
>> explain or correct my conclusions.
>>
>
>Maybe...
>http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/support/drivers.php

Hi Dave,

Thanks, but that seems to lead to the same V6.2 drivers (INF file
version 30152) that I mentioned.

--
Alan Hall

On Feb 16, 5:35 pm, Alan Hall <a...@databuzz.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <1171658660.019213.75...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups. com>, Davej
> <galt...@hotmail.com> writes
>
> >On Feb 16, 10:40 am, usen...@databuzz.co.uk wrote:
> >> I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
> >> XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
> >> now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
> >> explain or correct my conclusions.
>
> >Maybe...
> >http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/support/drivers.php
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Thanks, but that seems to lead to the same V6.2 drivers (INF file
> version 30152) that I mentioned.
>
> --
> Alan Hall

Are you trying to install using the Sapphire software installer ?? or
the add new hardware control panel?

James

In message < om>, James
<> writes
>On Feb 16, 5:35 pm, Alan Hall <a...@databuzz.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <1171658660.019213.75...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups. com>, Davej
>> <galt...@hotmail.com> writes
>>
>> >On Feb 16, 10:40 am, usen...@databuzz.co.uk wrote:
>> >> I have been struggling for several days to install drivers for a Saffire
>> >> XP1600PRO on an ASUS P5GZ-MX under W2K. I suspect we'll give up on it
>> >> now and get something else, but was still curious if anybody could
>> >> explain or correct my conclusions.
>>
>> >Maybe...
>> >http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/support/drivers.php
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Thanks, but that seems to lead to the same V6.2 drivers (INF file
>> version 30152) that I mentioned.
>>
>> --
>> Alan Hall
>
>Are you trying to install using the Sapphire software installer ?? or
>the add new hardware control panel?

Hi James,

Nice to know somebody's still interested! Tried it both ways:

1) With the Sapphire installer (Both the V6.2 and V6.6 ones).

V6.6 (supplied with the card) requests I reinstall the "Standard VGA"
driver before it can continue. I have done this very carefully several
times, following all the advice I could find from multiple sources, and
am pretty sure I did it OK. But it makes no difference, the installer
still requests the standard VGA driver to be restored.

V6.2 (latest official W2K support from ATI/Sapphire) is different - it
consistently says a hardware or software component is missing, but
doesn't specify what. I suspect it's the card itself that is missing (as
far as the installer is concerned) since:

Neither of the install suites have an entry for my card's PCI DEVID in
their .INF files. I have since noticed that these install packages also
contain two .INI files. These files contain many entries which appear to
associate DEV ID's with SUB VENDOR and SUB IDs. The exact purpose of
these isn't clear to me, but obviously the installer software must use
this in some way to manage things. However my card's SUB VENDOR and SUB
ID do not appear anywhere in these entries either.

Now in principle the Sapphire installer could, by some other magic,
detect the type of card and setup appropriate drivers for it, but this
would be a pretty perverse way of doing things. Given that there is both
the standard, .INF based method, and the proprietary .INI files
containing additional ID information, I can't really believe there is
some other backdoor.

2) With the standard "add new hardware" wizard (in it's various guises).

Clearly this can't work without a valid .inf file entry. When I hacked
the supplied .inf file to give it one (just edited the ATI standard
X1600 PRO entry), then a driver is installed and the Dev Manager entry
moves from "Unknown Device" to Display Adapters". Unfortunately it has a
"Code 10" error (driver cannot start).

My feeling is that this setup /should/ now work, and there maybe some
other hardware compatibility issue (or a dud X1600PRO). But it would be
nice to have some confirmation that the drivers are indeed correct
before wasting more time on it.

So my current thinking:

1) The install package is flawed as it doesn't know about my card.

AND/OR

2) My card is dud, and reporting an incorrect DEVID. Seems unlikely, as
it is otherwise working to an extent at least (i.e. VGA mode) and also
the DEVID is in the correct range (similar to other OEM card's entries
in the Omega drivers).

I am still (after several days) awaiting any sensible response to this
from either ATI or Sapphire. They must know if a card with the PCI DEVID
I quoted has ever been made by them, and if so then should be able to
explain how this can be installed without matching file entries.

Thanks again,
--
Alan Hall