Some tear-off browser menus would be nice

Looking at some style-switching menu in Firefox this morning I was
thinking, wouldn't it be nice if we could tear off the bit of the menu
that we wanted from browsers.

For those unfamiliar with this concept, some image manipulation
software has this: for example, Photoshop. You can drag off some of
the tools, with their optional variations to a convenient spot for
drawing and stuff, saving having to charge off to somewhere at the far
side or top.

The View menu comes to mind as a useful candidate for this, with its
different zoom settings, page display options.

For all I know, it may even be possible, either built in or addable
with some sort of extension or extra.

--
dorayme

dorayme wrote:
> Looking at some style-switching menu in Firefox this morning I was
> thinking, wouldn't it be nice if we could tear off the bit of the menu
> that we wanted from browsers.
>
> For those unfamiliar with this concept, some image manipulation
> software has this: for example, Photoshop. You can drag off some of
> the tools, with their optional variations to a convenient spot for
> drawing and stuff, saving having to charge off to somewhere at the far
> side or top.
>
> The View menu comes to mind as a useful candidate for this, with its
> different zoom settings, page display options.
>
> For all I know, it may even be possible, either built in or addable
> with some sort of extension or extra.
>

Well with Firefox you could probably create an extension to do it. I am
assuming that you mean putting the menu in a separate toolbox-window...
the only problem I see now is that browsers have tabs so it would be
difficultly linking the tab in focus with the satellite-menu window. I
think setting custom hot-keys for personal commonly used settings would
work out better.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> dorayme wrote:
>> Looking at some style-switching menu in Firefox this morning I was
>> thinking, wouldn't it be nice if we could tear off the bit of the menu
>> that we wanted from browsers.
>>
>> For those unfamiliar with this concept, some image manipulation
>> software has this: for example, Photoshop. You can drag off some of
>> the tools, with their optional variations to a convenient spot for
>> drawing and stuff, saving having to charge off to somewhere at the far
>> side or top.
>>
>> The View menu comes to mind as a useful candidate for this, with its
>> different zoom settings, page display options.
>>
>> For all I know, it may even be possible, either built in or addable
>> with some sort of extension or extra.
>>
>
> Well with Firefox you could probably create an extension to do it. I am
> assuming that you mean putting the menu in a separate toolbox-window...
> the only problem I see now is that browsers have tabs so it would be
> difficultly linking the tab in focus with the satellite-menu window. I
> think setting custom hot-keys for personal commonly used settings would
> work out better.
>


Oh I forgot, Macs rip the application menu off the application window
and stick it up in the desktop's top panel. A real PITA when you have a
non-maximized window in the lower-right corner of a large wide-screen
monitor. Something that I have been complaining about with Ubuntu's
adoption of this bone-head feature in Unity!

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 10:05:08 -0400, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

> Oh I forgot, Macs rip the application menu off the application window
> and stick it up in the desktop's top panel. A real PITA when you have a
> non-maximized window in the lower-right corner of a large wide-screen
> monitor. Something that I have been complaining about with Ubuntu's
> adoption of this bone-head feature in Unity!

Good luck with Unity :-)

Apparently the latest trend is towards maximized apps. Presumably
everyone is going to throw away the nice large screens that they have
acquired over the last few years and move to tablets <snigger>

<http://bit.ly/Hfamnh>

"GNOME 3.4 arrives, introducing significant design changes

GNOME designer Allan Day wrote a blog post in February describing the new
application style. Windows are maximized by default, emphasizing full-
screen layouts. Application functionality is separated into multiple
views that the user navigates between. Toolbars are pared down
considerably and are intended to be used mainly for navigation and the
traditional menubar is being phased out.

Several of the applications in GNOME 3.4 conform with that new style, but
there are still many applications that haven't been overhauled yet. The
applications that are designed in the new style are automatically
displayed in a maximized state when they launch. They can still easily be
snapped back into a normal floating state by dragging down from the top
bar."

--
Paul Sture

In article <jlcbmb$8hs$>,
"Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

> Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> > dorayme wrote:
> >> Looking at some style-switching menu in Firefox this morning I was
> >> thinking, wouldn't it be nice if we could tear off the bit of the menu
> >> that we wanted from browsers.
> >>
> >> For those unfamiliar with this concept, some image manipulation
> >> software has this: for example, Photoshop. You can drag off some of
> >> the tools, with their optional variations to a convenient spot for
> >> drawing and stuff, saving having to charge off to somewhere at the far
> >> side or top.
> >>
> >> The View menu comes to mind as a useful candidate for this, with its
> >> different zoom settings, page display options.
> >>
> >> For all I know, it may even be possible, either built in or addable
> >> with some sort of extension or extra.
> >>
> >
> > Well with Firefox you could probably create an extension to do it. I am
> > assuming that you mean putting the menu in a separate toolbox-window...


It is actually Illustrator that I have experience with tearing off
tools, not Photoshop. Seems I just assumed you could in latter but
this seems not to be so. In Illustrator, I have the tools in a tall
skinny, mainly two col table. This table floats and can be moved
about. That is one thing and good. The more detailed thing I was
thinking about though was the way you can drag, for instance, just the
pen tool off to float on its lonesome, (its variations then get
displayed in a tiny horizontal strip that can be moved to be wherever
you want on the desktop. Very handy!

> > the only problem I see now is that browsers have tabs so it would be
> > difficultly linking the tab in focus with the satellite-menu window. I
> > think setting custom hot-keys for personal commonly used settings would
> > work out better.
> >
>

Well, I can't see that as a theoretical problem, maybe a practical
coding developer prob. Let's take a specific case, OK? You tear off
the Page Style menu and it displays, like Illustrator pen, all under
it. It would have No Style and a line under this and then a list of
author styles that you could switch between.

If you focussed on another tab, the little floating menu could
disappear permanently or temporarily till you reengaged the tab it was
working on. Or, better, but harder to develop I imagine, it changes to
apply to the new tab. All sorts of smart possibilities.

>
> Oh I forgot, Macs rip the application menu off the application window
> and stick it up in the desktop's top panel. A real PITA when you have a
> non-maximized window in the lower-right corner of a large wide-screen
> monitor. Something that I have been complaining about with Ubuntu's
> adoption of this bone-head feature in Unity!

You can look at this another way. Macs don't *rip* the application
menu off the application window. Rather Windows kidnaps the menu and
forces it into slavery.

There are swings and roundabouts in all of this. On a Mac you can drag
Illustrator tools and options to *anywhere* on the *desktop*. On Win
Illustrator, maybe tools have to be confined to the Application
window? For graphic work I find two screens useful, the "app area",
where the real product is fashioned can be on one screen and the tools
and options on another. Perhaps you can do this with Windows without
needing to spread the canvas window over two screens, I have an older
Illustrator on a winbox somewhere, I should look before I throw it
out.

--
dorayme

dorayme wrote:
> In article<jlcbmb$8hs$>,
> "Jonathan N. Little"<> wrote:

>>> Well with Firefox you could probably create an extension to do it. I am
>>> assuming that you mean putting the menu in a separate toolbox-window...
>
>
> It is actually Illustrator that I have experience with tearing off
> tools, not Photoshop. Seems I just assumed you could in latter but
> this seems not to be so. In Illustrator, I have the tools in a tall
> skinny, mainly two col table. This table floats and can be moved
> about. That is one thing and good. The more detailed thing I was
> thinking about though was the way you can drag, for instance, just the
> pen tool off to float on its lonesome, (its variations then get
> displayed in a tiny horizontal strip that can be moved to be wherever
> you want on the desktop. Very handy!

I have the feature in CorelDraw, it is called tear off dockers. They can
either be docked or "torn-off" to maximize layout workspace.

<http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/tearoffdockers.jpg>

What I like it the *option* unlike GIMP where everything is a satellite
window. Been available for a decade in Corel, plus it has had a context
adjusting toolbars that change with the operation to help maximize
workspace.

>
>>> the only problem I see now is that browsers have tabs so it would be
>>> difficultly linking the tab in focus with the satellite-menu window. I
>>> think setting custom hot-keys for personal commonly used settings would
>>> work out better.
>>>
>>
>
> Well, I can't see that as a theoretical problem, maybe a practical
> coding developer prob. Let's take a specific case, OK? You tear off
> the Page Style menu and it displays, like Illustrator pen, all under
> it. It would have No Style and a line under this and then a list of
> author styles that you could switch between.
>
> If you focussed on another tab, the little floating menu could
> disappear permanently or temporarily till you reengaged the tab it was
> working on. Or, better, but harder to develop I imagine, it changes to
> apply to the new tab. All sorts of smart possibilities.
>

It could be done, but it was just an issue to be addressed. The problem
with web browsers and windows and tabs is the need to keep cross
communication strictly controlled. You do *not* want a tab with your
bank account "talking" to that other one with the website hijacked by
underworld hackers...

>>
>> Oh I forgot, Macs rip the application menu off the application window
>> and stick it up in the desktop's top panel. A real PITA when you have a
>> non-maximized window in the lower-right corner of a large wide-screen
>> monitor. Something that I have been complaining about with Ubuntu's
>> adoption of this bone-head feature in Unity!
>
> You can look at this another way. Macs don't *rip* the application
> menu off the application window. Rather Windows kidnaps the menu and
> forces it into slavery.

Okay, here is my complaint in a nutshell. The Mac uni-menu is efficient
if your screen real-estate is limited and if you tend to only have one
or two applications open at a time. My screenshot shows that is rarely
how I work. I often have several things open at once because my work
requires multiple references. Like in the old days when you did research
papers for school with many open books, note cards and a notebook open
across a large table.

I have two monitors, so if the app-menu is *always* in the far left-hand
corner regardless of the window's location the association is a bit
obscure. I guess I could get use to it, but it also means to switch
access from one window to another requires you must *first* click the
desired window first to put it in focus to switch the uni-menu. If it is
in the right monitor in the corner, well that means sweep over then
click go all the way over to the left monitor to the upper-left to make
the choice. Now to the next window in the right monitor click it to
switch the uni-menu again and then back again to the left....RIIIIIGHT!

Whereas now I click *directly* on the window's menu wherever it happens
to be, to the next maybe just above it with *one* click. No playing Pong
with my mouse!

Now for an iPhone or iPad, iToy, or whatever jabbing your finger here
and there and everywhere is no big deal, but not with my computing
requirements. It is the one-size-fits-all UI that I object to...


>
> There are swings and roundabouts in all of this. On a Mac you can drag
> Illustrator tools and options to *anywhere* on the *desktop*. On Win
> Illustrator, maybe tools have to be confined to the Application
> window?

Probably the same. Haven't used Illustrator in years. As I said before I
use Corel where this feature has been available for some time.

> For graphic work I find two screens useful, the "app area",
> where the real product is fashioned can be on one screen and the tools
> and options on another. Perhaps you can do this with Windows without
> needing to spread the canvas window over two screens, I have an older
> Illustrator on a winbox somewhere, I should look before I throw it
> out.
>

Again it depends on the app.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

In article <jlcu61$thn$>,
"Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

> dorayme wrote:
> > In article<jlcbmb$8hs$>,
> > "Jonathan N. Little"<> wrote:
>
> >>> Well with Firefox you could probably create an extension to do it. I am
> >>> assuming that you mean putting the menu in a separate toolbox-window...
> >
> >
> > It is actually Illustrator that I have experience with tearing off
> > tools, not Photoshop. Seems I just assumed you could in latter but
> > this seems not to be so. In Illustrator, I have the tools in a tall
> > skinny, mainly two col table. This table floats and can be moved
> > about. That is one thing and good. The more detailed thing I was
> > thinking about though was the way you can drag, for instance, just the
> > pen tool off to float on its lonesome, (its variations then get
> > displayed in a tiny horizontal strip that can be moved to be wherever
> > you want on the desktop. Very handy!
>
> I have the feature in CorelDraw, it is called tear off dockers. They can
> either be docked or "torn-off" to maximize layout workspace.
>
> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/tearoffdockers.jpg>

I see the floating options/tools windows but can't quite see the other
more detailed thing I was referring to, floating off a particular tool
(or closely related set of tools). In Mac Illus.

<http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/justPics/floatingTools.png>

See the pen tool ripped off from the already floating tool menu.

....

> >...Let's take a specific case, OK? You tear off
> > the Page Style menu and it displays, like Illustrator pen, all under
> > it. It would have No Style and a line under this and then a list of
> > author styles that you could switch between.
> >
> > If you focussed on another tab, the little floating menu could
> > disappear permanently or temporarily till you reengaged the tab it was
> > working on. Or, better, but harder to develop I imagine, it changes to
> > apply to the new tab. All sorts of smart possibilities.
> >
>
> It could be done, but it was just an issue to be addressed. The problem
> with web browsers and windows and tabs is the need to keep cross
> communication strictly controlled. You do *not* want a tab with your
> bank account "talking" to that other one with the website hijacked by
> underworld hackers...
>

Well, fine, but I can't see why it would be so hard to have the
simplest implementation: the floating facility but it quits completely
if another tab is focussed on. That would do if it can't be made to
safely logically attach itself to a particular tab and lose focus or
lose visibility and refocus when the tab comes back.


> >>
> >> Oh I forgot, Macs rip the application menu off the application window
> >> and stick it up in the desktop's top panel. A real PITA when you have a
> >> non-maximized window in the lower-right corner of a large wide-screen
> >> monitor. Something that I have been complaining about with Ubuntu's
> >> adoption of this bone-head feature in Unity!
> >
> > You can look at this another way. Macs don't *rip* the application
> > menu off the application window. Rather Windows kidnaps the menu and
> > forces it into slavery.
>
> Okay, here is my complaint in a nutshell.


It's OK, I understand your complaint. There have been calls by others
in Mac groups to be able to duplicate the menu on whatever screen is
wanted, fair enough. I think there are actually facilities you can add
to do this.

I am used to having the main menu on the screen directly in front of
me, the other one or two screens are never central (I don't sit
*between* screens, I did that once and worried too much about getting
sucked through the crack). The sorts of things I do on the non-mains,
I have this clever way of turning my eyes (or neck if I am feeling
athletic) to see what is what on them and the mouse happily goes
wherever at a nudge. And there is always keyboard commands to help
out.

> The Mac uni-menu is efficient
> if your screen real-estate is limited and if you tend to only have one
> or two applications open at a time. My screenshot shows that is rarely
> how I work. I often have several things open at once because my work
> requires multiple references. Like in the old days when you did research
> papers for school with many open books, note cards and a notebook open
> across a large table.
>
> I have two monitors, so if the app-menu is *always* in the far left-hand
> corner regardless of the window's location the association is a bit
> obscure. I guess I could get use to it, but it also means to switch
> access from one window to another requires you must *first* click the
> desired window first to put it in focus to switch the uni-menu. If it is
> in the right monitor in the corner, well that means sweep over then
> click go all the way over to the left monitor to the upper-left to make
> the choice. Now to the next window in the right monitor click it to
> switch the uni-menu again and then back again to the left....RIIIIIGHT!
>
> Whereas now I click *directly* on the window's menu wherever it happens
> to be, to the next maybe just above it with *one* click. No playing Pong
> with my mouse!
>

Jonathan, I know are you are getting close to succumbing to the
temptations of the delicious Macs, these your final gasps of protest
before surrender. <g>

About many apps open, many of us have to do this. but the number of
visible app windows gets to have a limit for those of us needing more
than tiny screen fonts, or who get confused easily. I use the dock
(minimization) a lot and other facilities to clear the apps
temporarily. I use the tab key to clear some programs of all floating
tools. We all work differently and, as I said, there are swings and
roundabouts.

--
dorayme

dorayme wrote:
> In article<jlcu61$thn$>,
> "Jonathan N. Little"<> wrote:

<snip>

>> I have the feature in CorelDraw, it is called tear off dockers. They can
>> either be docked or "torn-off" to maximize layout workspace.
>>
>> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/tearoffdockers.jpg>
>
> I see the floating options/tools windows but can't quite see the other
> more detailed thing I was referring to, floating off a particular tool
> (or closely related set of tools). In Mac Illus.
>
> <http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/justPics/floatingTools.png>
>
> See the pen tool ripped off from the already floating tool menu.
>

Can do the same, including toolbox and menus

<http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/floating.jpg>

>
>>> ...Let's take a specific case, OK? You tear off
>>> the Page Style menu and it displays, like Illustrator pen, all under
>>> it. It would have No Style and a line under this and then a list of
>>> author styles that you could switch between.
>>>
>>> If you focussed on another tab, the little floating menu could
>>> disappear permanently or temporarily till you reengaged the tab it was
>>> working on. Or, better, but harder to develop I imagine, it changes to
>>> apply to the new tab. All sorts of smart possibilities.
>>>
>>
>> It could be done, but it was just an issue to be addressed. The problem
>> with web browsers and windows and tabs is the need to keep cross
>> communication strictly controlled. You do *not* want a tab with your
>> bank account "talking" to that other one with the website hijacked by
>> underworld hackers...
>>
>
> Well, fine, but I can't see why it would be so hard to have the
> simplest implementation: the floating facility but it quits completely
> if another tab is focussed on. That would do if it can't be made to
> safely logically attach itself to a particular tab and lose focus or
> lose visibility and refocus when the tab comes back.

It would depend on how the "windows" are generated and linked.

[tab or window with URL1] <=== messages ===> [tab or window with menu1]

but you wouldn't want

[tab or window with URL2] <=== messages ===> [tab or window with menu1]

or

[tab or window with URL1] <=== messages ===> [tab or window with URL2]

With your graphics app messaging among all its associated windows is not
a security risk, but for a web browser it is not the case. It may not be
so simple without rewriting the browser app.


>>>>
>>>> Oh I forgot, Macs rip the application menu off the application window
>>>> and stick it up in the desktop's top panel. A real PITA when you have a
>>>> non-maximized window in the lower-right corner of a large wide-screen
>>>> monitor. Something that I have been complaining about with Ubuntu's
>>>> adoption of this bone-head feature in Unity!
>>>
>>> You can look at this another way. Macs don't *rip* the application
>>> menu off the application window. Rather Windows kidnaps the menu and
>>> forces it into slavery.
>>
>> Okay, here is my complaint in a nutshell.
>
>
> It's OK, I understand your complaint. There have been calls by others
> in Mac groups to be able to duplicate the menu on whatever screen is
> wanted, fair enough. I think there are actually facilities you can add
> to do this.

Yeah in Ubuntu it's call Cinnamon.

>
> I am used to having the main menu on the screen directly in front of
> me, the other one or two screens are never central (I don't sit
> *between* screens, I did that once and worried too much about getting
> sucked through the crack). The sorts of things I do on the non-mains,
> I have this clever way of turning my eyes (or neck if I am feeling
> athletic) to see what is what on them and the mouse happily goes
> wherever at a nudge. And there is always keyboard commands to help
> out.

True, but there was a *design* reason for redundancy of keyboard and
pointer commands. If you hand is on the mouse, it is less convenient to
switch to the keyboard to finish the action, and the converse is also
true. That is "search" is not a total substitute for a start menu imo


>
>> The Mac uni-menu is efficient
>> if your screen real-estate is limited and if you tend to only have one
>> or two applications open at a time. My screenshot shows that is rarely
>> how I work. I often have several things open at once because my work
>> requires multiple references. Like in the old days when you did research
>> papers for school with many open books, note cards and a notebook open
>> across a large table.
>>
>> I have two monitors, so if the app-menu is *always* in the far left-hand
>> corner regardless of the window's location the association is a bit
>> obscure. I guess I could get use to it, but it also means to switch
>> access from one window to another requires you must *first* click the
>> desired window first to put it in focus to switch the uni-menu. If it is
>> in the right monitor in the corner, well that means sweep over then
>> click go all the way over to the left monitor to the upper-left to make
>> the choice. Now to the next window in the right monitor click it to
>> switch the uni-menu again and then back again to the left....RIIIIIGHT!
>>
>> Whereas now I click *directly* on the window's menu wherever it happens
>> to be, to the next maybe just above it with *one* click. No playing Pong
>> with my mouse!
>>
>
> Jonathan, I know are you are getting close to succumbing to the
> temptations of the delicious Macs, these your final gasps of protest
> before surrender.<g>

Now that is funny!

>
> About many apps open, many of us have to do this. but the number of
> visible app windows gets to have a limit for those of us needing more
> than tiny screen fonts, or who get confused easily. I use the dock
> (minimization) a lot and other facilities to clear the apps
> temporarily. I use the tab key to clear some programs of all floating
> tools. We all work differently and, as I said, there are swings and
> roundabouts.
>

Well when I am putting together newsletter and pamphlets and such I am
pulling from several sources, from emails, word docs, images, then my
layout in CorelDraw so a have a few open with some folders...even when
doing websites I have a code window, resource windows and browsers
going... I am just used to visually composing with all laid out. I
haven't gotten used to the Win7 taskbar yet. I am more at home with
Linux multiple desktops.


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

In article <jldfmm$6fd$>,
"Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

> dorayme wrote:
> > In article<jlcu61$thn$>,
> > "Jonathan N. Little"<> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> I have the feature in CorelDraw, it is called tear off dockers. They can
> >> either be docked or "torn-off" to maximize layout workspace.
> >>
> >> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/tearoffdockers.jpg>
> >
> > I see the floating options/tools windows but can't quite see the other
> > more detailed thing I was referring to, floating off a particular tool
> > (or closely related set of tools). In Mac Illus.
> >
> > <http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/justPics/floatingTools.png>
> >
> > See the pen tool ripped off from the already floating tool menu.
> >
>
> Can do the same, including toolbox and menus
>
> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/floating.jpg>
>
That does not look to me quite the same? I don't mean exactly the
same, OK. I mean some equivalent level of detail. Let me put it this
way: can you tear off the pen tool set like illustrated in my url
above?

With the browser case, it is a level of detail that would be very
useful; for example, tearing off the zoom set from the menu, tearing
off Page Style from the FF menu.

> >
> >>> ...Let's take a specific case, OK? You tear off
> >>> the Page Style menu and it displays, like Illustrator pen, all under
> >>> it. It would have No Style and a line under this and then a list of
> >>> author styles that you could switch between.
> >>>
> >>> If you focussed on another tab, the little floating menu could
> >>> disappear permanently or temporarily till you reengaged the tab it was
> >>> working on. Or, better, but harder to develop I imagine, it changes to
> >>> apply to the new tab. All sorts of smart possibilities.
> >>>
> >>
> >> It could be done, but it was just an issue to be addressed. The problem
> >> with web browsers and windows and tabs is the need to keep cross
> >> communication strictly controlled. You do *not* want a tab with your
> >> bank account "talking" to that other one with the website hijacked by
> >> underworld hackers...
> >>
> >
> > Well, fine, but I can't see why it would be so hard to have the
> > simplest implementation: the floating facility but it quits completely
> > if another tab is focussed on. That would do if it can't be made to
> > safely logically attach itself to a particular tab and lose focus or
> > lose visibility and refocus when the tab comes back.
>
> It would depend on how the "windows" are generated and linked.
>
> [tab or window with URL1] <=== messages ===> [tab or window with menu1]
>
> but you wouldn't want
>
> [tab or window with URL2] <=== messages ===> [tab or window with menu1]
>
> or
>
> [tab or window with URL1] <=== messages ===> [tab or window with URL2]
>
> With your graphics app messaging among all its associated windows is not
> a security risk, but for a web browser it is not the case. It may not be
> so simple without rewriting the browser app.
>
>

Well, maybe it would be hard, I just don't know. But I wonder if
anyone has thought to do this? Perhaps not many see a use for it? All
I can say is that it would be a nice enhancement

....

> >
> > About many apps open, many of us have to do this. but the number of
> > visible app windows gets to have a limit for those of us needing more
> > than tiny screen fonts, or who get confused easily. I use the dock
> > (minimization) a lot and other facilities to clear the apps
> > temporarily. I use the tab key to clear some programs of all floating
> > tools. We all work differently and, as I said, there are swings and
> > roundabouts.
> >
>
> Well when I am putting together newsletter and pamphlets and such I am
> pulling from several sources, from emails, word docs, images, then my
> layout in CorelDraw so a have a few open with some folders...even when
> doing websites I have a code window, resource windows and browsers
> going... I am just used to visually composing with all laid out. I
> haven't gotten used to the Win7 taskbar yet. I am more at home with
> Linux multiple desktops.

Fair enough. There are pluses and minuses to open app windows having
their own menus. Me, I like that space is not wasted on them, the
relevant menu (and dropdowns) appearing at top of desktop when an app
is active, (click on the browser window, or click on the Image
software window). on Macs, btw, one can Command Tab through apps, they
come up as a strip of big icons, you stop on the one you want to do
something on, let go and you are on and the icons disappear. There are
other facilities to help too.

Jonathan, trust me, watching a skilled Mac user operate is like
watching a concert pianist perform, a beautiful sight to behold. I am
trying to organise a performance of this in some big theatre, Carnegie
Hall maybe, I will shout you a ticket if it ever happens. It's OK, I
know, you can't wait!

--
dorayme

dorayme wrote:
> In article<jldfmm$6fd$>,
> "Jonathan N. Little"<> wrote:
>
>> dorayme wrote:
>>> In article<jlcu61$thn$>,
>>> "Jonathan N. Little"<> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> I have the feature in CorelDraw, it is called tear off dockers. They can
>>>> either be docked or "torn-off" to maximize layout workspace.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/tearoffdockers.jpg>
>>>
>>> I see the floating options/tools windows but can't quite see the other
>>> more detailed thing I was referring to, floating off a particular tool
>>> (or closely related set of tools). In Mac Illus.
>>>
>>> <http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/justPics/floatingTools.png>
>>>
>>> See the pen tool ripped off from the already floating tool menu.
>>>
>>
>> Can do the same, including toolbox and menus
>>
>> <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/floating.jpg>
>>
> That does not look to me quite the same? I don't mean exactly the
> same, OK. I mean some equivalent level of detail. Let me put it this
> way: can you tear off the pen tool set like illustrated in my url
> above?

Like this?

<http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/curveflyout.jpg>

Yes I can. Now each application has different naming convention and
arrangement. BTW I can customize everything and can "theme" my Corel
workspace to be like Illustrator if I wished. I have my own custom
toolbars with automation VBA function that I developed to assist my
workflow.


>
> With the browser case, it is a level of detail that would be very
> useful; for example, tearing off the zoom set from the menu, tearing
> off Page Style from the FF menu.

I guess I am just used to CTRL+Scollwheel or CTRL +/- and I have the Web
Developers Bar for the style changer but other that debugging posts
here. The only time I need to change/disable the style is if the page am
on is a styling train wreck and I would really need the info for I would
just typically bail on it.

<snip>

>> With your graphics app messaging among all its associated windows is not
>> a security risk, but for a web browser it is not the case. It may not be
>> so simple without rewriting the browser app.
>>
>>
>
> Well, maybe it would be hard, I just don't know. But I wonder if
> anyone has thought to do this? Perhaps not many see a use for it? All
> I can say is that it would be a nice enhancement
>

I remember in the early days of tabs the security issue of
cross-communication that allow XSS issues that had to be patched. It may
have be considered, but frankly I don't see the the enhancement value.

<snip>

>> Well when I am putting together newsletter and pamphlets and such I am
>> pulling from several sources, from emails, word docs, images, then my
>> layout in CorelDraw so a have a few open with some folders...even when
>> doing websites I have a code window, resource windows and browsers
>> going... I am just used to visually composing with all laid out. I
>> haven't gotten used to the Win7 taskbar yet. I am more at home with
>> Linux multiple desktops.
>
> Fair enough. There are pluses and minuses to open app windows having
> their own menus. Me, I like that space is not wasted on them, the
> relevant menu (and dropdowns) appearing at top of desktop when an app
> is active, (click on the browser window, or click on the Image
> software window). on Macs, btw, one can Command Tab through apps, they
> come up as a strip of big icons, you stop on the one you want to do
> something on, let go and you are on and the icons disappear. There are
> other facilities to help too.

Same with Windows and Linux. When I am doing more than one thing that
process works well. Actually for that scenario Linux's multiple desktops
works best for me...I really used the compiz cube! MS's implementation
of multiple desktops just sucks. But when I am doing one then that the
creative composing process pulls from multiple sources flipping through
windows is not as efficient as seeing them all at once. Just the way I
work. As soon and I can swing it I will probably get a third monitor.

>
> Jonathan, trust me, watching a skilled Mac user operate is like
> watching a concert pianist perform, a beautiful sight to behold. I am
> trying to organise a performance of this in some big theatre, Carnegie
> Hall maybe, I will shout you a ticket if it ever happens. It's OK, I
> know, you can't wait!
>

Again it depends on what you are doing, and what you are doing it with.
My fear is, and this is OS-independent because they are all trending
this way, that the quest for the single universal UI is folly. What
works for a phone may not for a desktop. Touch is the new sexy thing,
but I have no need for a touch for my work, but all the new UI are
leaning towards touch at the *expense* of mouse and keyboard. I just
want choice and control of how I work.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com