somewhat of a n00b

"EzAk" <> wrote in message
news:k7mdnRW_HrrVv6_cRVn-...
> Not sure but have you seen this:
> http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/AXP_mu...Multiplier.htm
> (about half way down the page look for the caption "How to create Mobile
> Athlon (desktop to mobile change)"
> ive thought about trying it just have gone that far yet, i hate removing
> everything from the case

Forget it... your chip is unlocked anyway, so there is nothing to be gained
by the mobile convertion.
--
*****Replace 'NOSPAM' with 'btinternet' in the reply address*****>

ok thats what i was looking for, thank you Badger

BigBadger wrote:

> "EzAk" <> wrote in message
> news:k7mdnRW_HrrVv6_cRVn-...
>
>>Not sure but have you seen this:
>>http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/AXP_mu...Multiplier.htm
>>(about half way down the page look for the caption "How to create Mobile
>>Athlon (desktop to mobile change)"
>>ive thought about trying it just have gone that far yet, i hate removing
>>everything from the case
>
>
> Forget it... your chip is unlocked anyway, so there is nothing to be gained
> by the mobile convertion.

"EzAk" <> wrote in message
news:k7mdnRW_HrrVv6_cRVn-...
> Not sure but have you seen this:
> http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/AXP_mu...Multiplier.htm
> (about half way down the page look for the caption "How to create Mobile
> Athlon (desktop to mobile change)"

Thanks, but I know this already.

I think you are perhaps a little confused: This process does not turn a
normal CPU into a mobile one. It enables a normal CPU to run as if it were
a mobile one. See the difference?

Mobile processors will tend to be able to clock higher and have the added
benefits that they are unlocked and run on lower voltages (and have higher
heat tolerance too.) They don't clock higher *because* they run on lower
voltages and have higher heat tolerances. So fooling a normal CPU into
thinking its a mobile doesn't "magically" make it a better overclocker.

Chip

"EzAk" <> wrote in message
newsumdnbysDZlQu6_cRVn-...
> ok thats what i was looking for, thank you Badger

Note he is not saying there is no benefit in getting a mobile processor.
Merely that there is no point in trying to get your CPU to behave like one.

Chip

>
> BigBadger wrote:
>
> > "EzAk" <> wrote in message
> > news:k7mdnRW_HrrVv6_cRVn-...
> >
> >>Not sure but have you seen this:
> >>http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/AXP_mu...Multiplier.htm
> >>(about half way down the page look for the caption "How to create Mobile
> >>Athlon (desktop to mobile change)"
> >>ive thought about trying it just have gone that far yet, i hate removing
> >>everything from the case
> >
> >
> > Forget it... your chip is unlocked anyway, so there is nothing to be
gained
> > by the mobile convertion.
>

(Pedant on/)

I'm not one to pick holes, but this one is particularly unforgivable - for
it should be 'someTHING of a noob'.
One can say I'm "somewhat new" or "something of A noob", but never "somewhat
OF".
It's like people who say "equally as X" instead of "as good as X" or
"equally X" - it's sounds as wrong as it is.
That's all.
As you were, men.

(Pedant off/)

"crucom" <> wrote in message
news:YqednXnByLkIha3cRVn-...
> somewhat of a n00b
>
> Barton 2500+ pre week 39
> zalman 7000 cu
> Arctic Silver 3
> Abit Max2 mobo <1 (latest bios)
> 9800 pro 128mb (r350 & Infineon memory *damn* who knew; when i got it)
> stock chipset cooler (zalman overlaps the chipset so cant put anything to
> big.
> 1gb kingston value memory (2x 512)
> Vantec Stealth 520w ps
> some sound card.
> 36gb Raptor 10,000 rpm *sucks* w/ BLUE Monster Heatsink HardDrive Cooler
> 160gb Maxtor 133
> Asus Dvdrw +/-
> Plextor 52x24x52
> chen ming tower 601ae
> 2x 80mm fans at back blowing
> 2x 92mm vantec tornado fans at front bottom stacked sucking rated at
> 119cfm on a vantec baybus
>
> motherboard info
> AT7 MAX2
> SOFTMENU in bios for ocing
>
> CPU FSB range
> - CPU FSB range: 100, 101, 102....MHz by 1MHz every step
>
> DDR Vcc adjustment range
> - 2.55V, 2.65V, 2.75V, 2.85V, 2.95V, 3.05V, 3.15V, 3.25V (i think 2.65 is
> default
>
> FSB:AGP:PCI Ratio
> - [3:2:1], [4:2:1], [5:2:1], [6:2:1 but the chipset doesn't support it so
> it doesn't show as an option...5:2:1 is default
>
> Multiplier Factor
> [x5], [x5.5] , [x6], [x6.5], [x7], [x7.5], [x8], [x8.5], [x9], .., [x17],
> [x18], etc.
>
> CPU Core Voltage
> [1.100V]~[1.800V], by 0.025V every Step
>
> CPU FSB/DRAM ratio
> - [1:1], [3:4], [3:5], [3:6], [4:3], [4:5], [4:6], [5:3], [5:4], [5:6],
> [6:3], [6:4], [6:5], [By SPD]
>
> Multiplier Factor
> - [x8], [x10], [x11], [x12], .., [x22], [x23], [x24], etc..
>
> ABIT O.C.P. CPU Over Temperature Protect
> - 85°C, 95°C, 100°C
>
> Voltage
> - 1.5 ~ 1.8V
>
>
> I have been researching overclocking for over a year now (reading posts
> and websites, etc.) and have been playing with it a bit. Im tired of
> playing. I want to be able to overclock this thing to 2.49+.
>
>
> im going to be cutting a hole in the bottom of the case to blow up and a
> blow hole at the top using the same Vantec. to create some what of a wind
> tunnel..
>
> +++++++what im looking for is some direction.++++++
>
> 1. I can go over the 200fsb (not sure if its stable though)
> 2. I can also go over the 11x multiplier
> to be honest i have never run any programs to check stability, and any of
> the programs i seem to get that ask for the board never have the max2. I
> have dl'ed some prog's but never took the time to test. always tried to
> push further until i had to reset the bios, lol
> 3. Do you know of any programs that mention support for the MAX2?
> 4. What programs do you like?
> 5. What is the BEST after market cooler for the 9800 pro? looked at
> zalman and AC ATI Silencer 1 OR 3 (if the 3 will fit).
>
> i have thought about changing out the board and going to a cheaper more
> popular board like the NF7 that i keep hearing about or what about the
> newer AN7? the last time i spend over $250 cad on a board...
>
>
> for now i would like to see how far i can go with air. I will be making
> the jump to h2o if air doesn't do what i want. Also i have no problem with
> chopping anything up (ex. new copper sinks etc.)
>
> i have spent lots on this computer and would like to be done with it. but
> not until i am please with the end result.
>
> i would say over the past 2 years i have spent over 1500 - 2000 just on
> cooling. (including the volcano 9 that i had for 1 week before sticking my
> finger in the blades while it was on. (believe me i was not happy)
> and endless hd coolers and other useless crap yeah even uv crap.. lol
> no lights or pretty junk in there now and am trying to get a new side with
> no window.... "ITS ALL ABOUT COOLING BABY"
>
>
> I do not want to spend 2000 on a prebuilt water cooling setup, And would
> not like to talk about water cooling YET. That will come in due time;
> might not be with this comp but will be with the next and not prebuilt.
>
> ok hope i gave enough info, if not let me know. This is my gaming system
> and noise is not a issue. I use headphone when i play...
>
> Thanks for the help I really appreciate it.
>
> OMEN_EzAk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

ok you got me there...
i guess i need to go get an eg-e-ma-ka-tion

Scumball wrote:

> (Pedant on/)
>
> I'm not one to pick holes, but this one is particularly unforgivable - for
> it should be 'someTHING of a noob'.
> One can say I'm "somewhat new" or "something of A noob", but never "somewhat
> OF".
> It's like people who say "equally as X" instead of "as good as X" or
> "equally X" - it's sounds as wrong as it is.
> That's all.
> As you were, men.
>
> (Pedant off/)
>
> "crucom" <> wrote in message
> news:YqednXnByLkIha3cRVn-...
>
>>somewhat of a n00b
>>
>>Barton 2500+ pre week 39
>>zalman 7000 cu
>>Arctic Silver 3
>>Abit Max2 mobo <1 (latest bios)
>>9800 pro 128mb (r350 & Infineon memory *damn* who knew; when i got it)
>>stock chipset cooler (zalman overlaps the chipset so cant put anything to
>>big.
>>1gb kingston value memory (2x 512)
>>Vantec Stealth 520w ps
>>some sound card.
>>36gb Raptor 10,000 rpm *sucks* w/ BLUE Monster Heatsink HardDrive Cooler
>>160gb Maxtor 133
>>Asus Dvdrw +/-
>>Plextor 52x24x52
>>chen ming tower 601ae
>>2x 80mm fans at back blowing
>>2x 92mm vantec tornado fans at front bottom stacked sucking rated at
>>119cfm on a vantec baybus
>>
>>motherboard info
>>AT7 MAX2
>>SOFTMENU in bios for ocing
>>
>>CPU FSB range
>>- CPU FSB range: 100, 101, 102....MHz by 1MHz every step
>>
>>DDR Vcc adjustment range
>>- 2.55V, 2.65V, 2.75V, 2.85V, 2.95V, 3.05V, 3.15V, 3.25V (i think 2.65 is
>>default
>>
>>FSB:AGP:PCI Ratio
>>- [3:2:1], [4:2:1], [5:2:1], [6:2:1 but the chipset doesn't support it so
>>it doesn't show as an option...5:2:1 is default
>>
>>Multiplier Factor
>>[x5], [x5.5] , [x6], [x6.5], [x7], [x7.5], [x8], [x8.5], [x9], .., [x17],
>>[x18], etc.
>>
>>CPU Core Voltage
>>[1.100V]~[1.800V], by 0.025V every Step
>>
>>CPU FSB/DRAM ratio
>>- [1:1], [3:4], [3:5], [3:6], [4:3], [4:5], [4:6], [5:3], [5:4], [5:6],
>>[6:3], [6:4], [6:5], [By SPD]
>>
>>Multiplier Factor
>>- [x8], [x10], [x11], [x12], .., [x22], [x23], [x24], etc..
>>
>>ABIT O.C.P. CPU Over Temperature Protect
>>- 85°C, 95°C, 100°C
>>
>>Voltage
>>- 1.5 ~ 1.8V
>>
>>
>>I have been researching overclocking for over a year now (reading posts
>>and websites, etc.) and have been playing with it a bit. Im tired of
>>playing. I want to be able to overclock this thing to 2.49+.
>>
>>
>>im going to be cutting a hole in the bottom of the case to blow up and a
>>blow hole at the top using the same Vantec. to create some what of a wind
>>tunnel..
>>
>>+++++++what im looking for is some direction.++++++
>>
>>1. I can go over the 200fsb (not sure if its stable though)
>>2. I can also go over the 11x multiplier
>>to be honest i have never run any programs to check stability, and any of
>>the programs i seem to get that ask for the board never have the max2. I
>>have dl'ed some prog's but never took the time to test. always tried to
>>push further until i had to reset the bios, lol
>>3. Do you know of any programs that mention support for the MAX2?
>>4. What programs do you like?
>>5. What is the BEST after market cooler for the 9800 pro? looked at
>>zalman and AC ATI Silencer 1 OR 3 (if the 3 will fit).
>>
>>i have thought about changing out the board and going to a cheaper more
>>popular board like the NF7 that i keep hearing about or what about the
>>newer AN7? the last time i spend over $250 cad on a board...
>>
>>
>>for now i would like to see how far i can go with air. I will be making
>>the jump to h2o if air doesn't do what i want. Also i have no problem with
>>chopping anything up (ex. new copper sinks etc.)
>>
>>i have spent lots on this computer and would like to be done with it. but
>>not until i am please with the end result.
>>
>>i would say over the past 2 years i have spent over 1500 - 2000 just on
>>cooling. (including the volcano 9 that i had for 1 week before sticking my
>>finger in the blades while it was on. (believe me i was not happy)
>>and endless hd coolers and other useless crap yeah even uv crap.. lol
>>no lights or pretty junk in there now and am trying to get a new side with
>>no window.... "ITS ALL ABOUT COOLING BABY"
>>
>>
>>I do not want to spend 2000 on a prebuilt water cooling setup, And would
>>not like to talk about water cooling YET. That will come in due time;
>>might not be with this comp but will be with the next and not prebuilt.
>>
>>ok hope i gave enough info, if not let me know. This is my gaming system
>>and noise is not a issue. I use headphone when i play...
>>
>>Thanks for the help I really appreciate it.
>>
>>OMEN_EzAk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

i see what you are saying now, thank you
now without touching the processor,
Is the only problem with raising the voltage heat?
if so in "thery" could i raise the vcore up to 4 if the processor was
running >20c and everything be ok?

Chip wrote:

> "EzAk" <> wrote in message
> news:k7mdnRW_HrrVv6_cRVn-...
>
>>Not sure but have you seen this:
>>http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/AXP_mu...Multiplier.htm
>>(about half way down the page look for the caption "How to create Mobile
>>Athlon (desktop to mobile change)"
>
>
> Thanks, but I know this already.
>
> I think you are perhaps a little confused: This process does not turn a
> normal CPU into a mobile one. It enables a normal CPU to run as if it were
> a mobile one. See the difference?
>
> Mobile processors will tend to be able to clock higher and have the added
> benefits that they are unlocked and run on lower voltages (and have higher
> heat tolerance too.) They don't clock higher *because* they run on lower
> voltages and have higher heat tolerances. So fooling a normal CPU into
> thinking its a mobile doesn't "magically" make it a better overclocker.
>
> Chip
>
>

"EzAk" <> wrote in message
news:QLudnSFCPdlc8a7cRVn-...
> i see what you are saying now, thank you

No probs

> now without touching the processor,
> Is the only problem with raising the voltage heat?
> if so in "thery" could i raise the vcore up to 4 if the processor was
> running >20c and everything be ok?

I am not sure. If you had said 2.5v, I would have said yes, "in theory".
But as you get higher and higher voltages, I am not sure what the
theoretical limits are.

I am very rusty on all this stuff, so please forgive the lack of detail and
specific numbers, but the principle is this:

Think of all the transistors in a CPU representing "0"'s and "1"'s,
depending on what voltage they are outputting. The reality is that the
voltage doesn't switch from "low" to "high" (or vica versa) instantly. It
takes time. This is because of capacitance in the system. As electrons
flow in to part of the CPU, the voltage rises steadily as the capacitance is
filled up.

The speed at which the voltage ramps up determines how fast the chip can
run. Consider an individual component that is supposed to be saying "1".
Its voltage is rising up quickly - so that it can represent a "1" - but you
come along an try to measure it too fast and the voltage hasn't got high
enough yet and you read some intermediate value. Which gets interpreted as
a "0". The chip is producing errors because you are trying to run it too
fast.

Slow the MHz down and the problem goes away: the components now have time
to charge up properly.

So how can you make the chip run faster? Well you can do 2 things.

1. You can increase the voltage supplying the chip. This makes things
charge up faster, and therefore they reach the "1" state quicker and
therefore you can run it faster.
2. You can try to decrease the resistance of the chip's internal tracks.
This also enables things to charge up faster. You do this by cooling the
chip, becuase the resistance is lower at lower temperatures. This also
helps with 1. The trouble with increasing the voltage is that it also
increases the amount of heat generated inside the chip.

But so much for the "theory". In reality, there are real limits. You reach
a point where you can't remove enough heat. The problem is that the heat is
generated inside the CPU and yet the heatsink sits outside the CPU. So the
heat generated inside each tiny little component inside the CPU can only
escape so fast, because its got the rest of the CPU to travel through. So
even if you have a liquid-helium cooled heatsink, you still reach a point
where the heat generated will burn it out. It might be -273C on the
outside, but it will still be too hot at the CPU component level.

So, yes "in theory", if you could keep the *internal* CPU temps around 20C
everything would be OK. But its impossible.

Chip


>
> Chip wrote:
>
> > "EzAk" <> wrote in message
> > news:k7mdnRW_HrrVv6_cRVn-...
> >
> >>Not sure but have you seen this:
> >>http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/AXP_mu...Multiplier.htm
> >>(about half way down the page look for the caption "How to create Mobile
> >>Athlon (desktop to mobile change)"
> >
> >
> > Thanks, but I know this already.
> >
> > I think you are perhaps a little confused: This process does not turn a
> > normal CPU into a mobile one. It enables a normal CPU to run as if it
were
> > a mobile one. See the difference?
> >
> > Mobile processors will tend to be able to clock higher and have the
added
> > benefits that they are unlocked and run on lower voltages (and have
higher
> > heat tolerance too.) They don't clock higher *because* they run on
lower
> > voltages and have higher heat tolerances. So fooling a normal CPU into
> > thinking its a mobile doesn't "magically" make it a better overclocker.
> >
> > Chip
> >
> >
>

wow what a perfect description, thanks
that was like night and day...

Chip wrote:
> "EzAk" <> wrote in message
> news:QLudnSFCPdlc8a7cRVn-...
>
>>i see what you are saying now, thank you
>
>
> No probs
>
>
>>now without touching the processor,
>>Is the only problem with raising the voltage heat?
>>if so in "thery" could i raise the vcore up to 4 if the processor was
>>running >20c and everything be ok?
>
>
> I am not sure. If you had said 2.5v, I would have said yes, "in theory".
> But as you get higher and higher voltages, I am not sure what the
> theoretical limits are.
>
> I am very rusty on all this stuff, so please forgive the lack of detail and
> specific numbers, but the principle is this:
>
> Think of all the transistors in a CPU representing "0"'s and "1"'s,
> depending on what voltage they are outputting. The reality is that the
> voltage doesn't switch from "low" to "high" (or vica versa) instantly. It
> takes time. This is because of capacitance in the system. As electrons
> flow in to part of the CPU, the voltage rises steadily as the capacitance is
> filled up.
>
> The speed at which the voltage ramps up determines how fast the chip can
> run. Consider an individual component that is supposed to be saying "1".
> Its voltage is rising up quickly - so that it can represent a "1" - but you
> come along an try to measure it too fast and the voltage hasn't got high
> enough yet and you read some intermediate value. Which gets interpreted as
> a "0". The chip is producing errors because you are trying to run it too
> fast.
>
> Slow the MHz down and the problem goes away: the components now have time
> to charge up properly.
>
> So how can you make the chip run faster? Well you can do 2 things.
>
> 1. You can increase the voltage supplying the chip. This makes things
> charge up faster, and therefore they reach the "1" state quicker and
> therefore you can run it faster.
> 2. You can try to decrease the resistance of the chip's internal tracks.
> This also enables things to charge up faster. You do this by cooling the
> chip, becuase the resistance is lower at lower temperatures. This also
> helps with 1. The trouble with increasing the voltage is that it also
> increases the amount of heat generated inside the chip.
>
> But so much for the "theory". In reality, there are real limits. You reach
> a point where you can't remove enough heat. The problem is that the heat is
> generated inside the CPU and yet the heatsink sits outside the CPU. So the
> heat generated inside each tiny little component inside the CPU can only
> escape so fast, because its got the rest of the CPU to travel through. So
> even if you have a liquid-helium cooled heatsink, you still reach a point
> where the heat generated will burn it out. It might be -273C on the
> outside, but it will still be too hot at the CPU component level.
>
> So, yes "in theory", if you could keep the *internal* CPU temps around 20C
> everything would be OK. But its impossible.
>
> Chip
>
>
>
>>Chip wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"EzAk" <> wrote in message
>>>news:k7mdnRW_HrrVv6_cRVn-...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Not sure but have you seen this:
>>>>http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/AXP_mu...Multiplier.htm
>>>>(about half way down the page look for the caption "How to create Mobile
>>>>Athlon (desktop to mobile change)"
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks, but I know this already.
>>>
>>>I think you are perhaps a little confused: This process does not turn a
>>>normal CPU into a mobile one. It enables a normal CPU to run as if it
>
> were
>
>>>a mobile one. See the difference?
>>>
>>>Mobile processors will tend to be able to clock higher and have the
>
> added
>
>>>benefits that they are unlocked and run on lower voltages (and have
>
> higher
>
>>>heat tolerance too.) They don't clock higher *because* they run on
>
> lower
>
>>>voltages and have higher heat tolerances. So fooling a normal CPU into
>>>thinking its a mobile doesn't "magically" make it a better overclocker.
>>>
>>>Chip
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

In article <cguofd$sjd$>, Scumball
<> writes
>(Pedant on/)
>
>I'm not one to pick holes, but this one is particularly unforgivable - for
>it should be 'someTHING of a noob'.
>One can say I'm "somewhat new" or "something of A noob", but never "somewhat
>OF".
>It's like people who say "equally as X" instead of "as good as X" or
>"equally X" - it's sounds as wrong as it is.
>That's all.
>As you were, men.
>
>(Pedant off/)
>
Ah - so "somewhat pedantic" or "something of a pedant" would be equally
acceptable.
--
Roger Hunt