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ST62K boots with incorrect fsb

 
 
ozwald@operamail.com
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      12-28-2004, 05:46 PM
I have recently had an ST62K built for me by a firm in Plymouth, Devon
UK. (But tha's another story.) I have a 3.0 GHz Prescott and I find
that from time to time when starting up, the bios incorrectly sets the
multiplier & FSB to 15 x 166 MHz instead of 15 x 200 MHz, giving me a
2.49 GHz cpu clock. The RAM is always correctly recognised as 400 MHz
dual channel.

The error occurs when I explicitly set the multiplier & fsb to 15 x 200
and also if I set it to "auto".

I have flashed the bios to what I believe is the latest revision
(suffix 'X'). (It had 'P' when I got it.)

I have seen this error mentioned before; has anybody any idea if it is
fixable, or will I just have to live with it?

Also, what are good cpu temps? I am getting 54-56 on idle, and about 62
on load. If I set the fan to 'ultra-low' in the bios, it hardly ever
ramps up)

 
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Dodgy
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      01-19-2005, 06:36 PM
On 28 Dec 2004 09:46:55 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) waffled on about
something:

>I have recently had an ST62K built for me by a firm in Plymouth, Devon
>UK. (But tha's another story.) I have a 3.0 GHz Prescott and I find
>that from time to time when starting up, the bios incorrectly sets the
>multiplier & FSB to 15 x 166 MHz instead of 15 x 200 MHz, giving me a
>2.49 GHz cpu clock. The RAM is always correctly recognised as 400 MHz
>dual channel.
>
>The error occurs when I explicitly set the multiplier & fsb to 15 x 200
>and also if I set it to "auto".
>
>I have flashed the bios to what I believe is the latest revision
>(suffix 'X'). (It had 'P' when I got it.)
>
>I have seen this error mentioned before; has anybody any idea if it is
>fixable, or will I just have to live with it?
>
>Also, what are good cpu temps? I am getting 54-56 on idle, and about 62
>on load. If I set the fan to 'ultra-low' in the bios, it hardly ever
>ramps up)


I have a P4-2.8 (533FSB), sometimes it gets booted with 166Mhz clock
instead of 133Mhz, amazingly enough it actually gets into windows and
will work for a while before going a bit wobbly! (21x166=3.48Ghz!).

Reported it to shuttle a few months ago, no reply, not even an
automatic one... So no change there! I eventually wrote a little
program (me being a programmer) that checked the speed and just
rebooted the machine if it was wrong.

Anyway, just found a new BIOS,

FT62S00Z
1. Fixed sometimes detect Fsb(front side bus) irregularly at boot up.

http://global.shuttle.com/Download/D...asp?Item=ST62K

I'm gonna try it when I get home (well after I've found why the
machine is now reporting NTLDR failure!)

D0d6y.
--
MUSHROOMS ARE THE OPIATE OF THE MOOSES
 
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Dodgy
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      01-25-2005, 02:33 AM
On 24 Jan 2005 02:35:56 -0800, "Freddo_2005" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Here are your answers :
>
>1. CPU fsb problem : sorry, you have a defective motherboard... Search
>sudhian forums for st62k
>(http://forums.sudhian.com/messagevie...keyword1=st62k)
>
>2. Temperatures : you could lower this by at least 5C. Reboot, enter
>the bios setup, advanced chipset config, and set the CPU voltage to
>1.175V (instead of Auto). Then save and exit. Once logged into windows,
>download prime95 and launch a 2hrs torture test. If ever you
>exprerience a "fatal error", get back to the bios and increase CPU
>voltage by one step. Don't worry: undervolting will not harm your CPU
>in any way. Anyway, a 3.0GHz P4 Prescott should be perfectly stable at
>1.175V (and even stable at 1.100V if you run it @2.5GHz). And DON'T
>FORGET to disable the spectrum spreading (default 0.5%). You'll see
>your shuttle dramatically cool down!!!


Well I don't know about the OP, but the FT62S00Z bios update sorted my
2.8Ghz p4... It hasn't booted with the wrong FSB since I flashed it.

D0d6y.
 
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ozwald@operamail.com
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      01-28-2005, 08:29 PM
Here I am, the OP. I am not convinced the mobo is faulty. BIOS updates
exist to correct mobo/cpu incompatibilities. I would not rush to call a
mobo 'faulty' if it displayed a problem such as this. Hell, my old Abit
and the Jetway before that were known to do things like this. I posted
this same question on the Hexus.net SFF forum, and an ST62K user told
me that the 00Z bios did not cure his case. (It did not cure mine
either.)

BUT!!! What did cure his, and also after I read it, mine, was a very
bizarre thing. He wrote that switching the cpu fan connector from FAN1
header to FAN3 stopped the wrong fsb problem completely. I don't know
what made him try it. He said he did not know why it worked.

So far I have had about 16 boots all correct.

I had to change the settings in Speedfan of course.

I have undervolted down to 1.200 and I am getting idle temp 39 C and
100% cpu stabilises at 54 C after about 20 minutes slow climb, so I'm
pleased considering it's a Prescott in a Shuttle case.

 
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Dodgy
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      01-29-2005, 05:04 AM
On 28 Jan 2005 12:29:32 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Here I am, the OP. I am not convinced the mobo is faulty. BIOS updates
>exist to correct mobo/cpu incompatibilities. I would not rush to call a
>mobo 'faulty' if it displayed a problem such as this. Hell, my old Abit
>and the Jetway before that were known to do things like this. I posted
>this same question on the Hexus.net SFF forum, and an ST62K user told
>me that the 00Z bios did not cure his case. (It did not cure mine
>either.)
>
>BUT!!! What did cure his, and also after I read it, mine, was a very
>bizarre thing. He wrote that switching the cpu fan connector from FAN1
>header to FAN3 stopped the wrong fsb problem completely. I don't know
>what made him try it. He said he did not know why it worked.
>
>So far I have had about 16 boots all correct.
>
>I had to change the settings in Speedfan of course.
>
>I have undervolted down to 1.200 and I am getting idle temp 39 C and
>100% cpu stabilises at 54 C after about 20 minutes slow climb, so I'm
>pleased considering it's a Prescott in a Shuttle case.


Okay, you get the prize for weird!

Glad you got it sorted, pity about shuttle's support, it really will
effect my choice of compact PC next time.

D0d6y.
 
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ozwald@operamail.com
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      01-29-2005, 09:59 AM

Dodgy wrote:
> On 28 Jan 2005 12:29:32 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> >an ST62K user told
> >me that the 00Z bios did not cure his case. (It did not cure mine
> >either.)
> >
> >BUT!!! What did cure his, and also after I read it, mine, was a very
> >bizarre thing. He wrote that switching the cpu fan connector from

FAN1
> >header to FAN3 stopped the wrong fsb problem completely. I don't

know
> >what made him try it. He said he did not know why it worked.
> >
> >So far I have had about 16 boots all correct.
> >

>
> Okay, you get the prize for weird!
>
> Glad you got it sorted, pity about shuttle's support, it really will
> effect my choice of compact PC next time.
>
> D0d6y.


D0d6y, I spoke too soon! The next day the Zen was back to booting at
2.49 GHz. I am wondering if the reason for the seeming cure was not so
much the change of fan header, but the fact that the pc was moved, case
was opened, the motherboard was maybe flexed slightly. So I am going to
see if the RAM modules are seated properly.

Still

 
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Dodgy
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      01-30-2005, 02:11 AM
On 29 Jan 2005 01:59:03 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>
>Dodgy wrote:
>> On 28 Jan 2005 12:29:32 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>
>> >an ST62K user told
>> >me that the 00Z bios did not cure his case. (It did not cure mine
>> >either.)
>> >
>> >BUT!!! What did cure his, and also after I read it, mine, was a very
>> >bizarre thing. He wrote that switching the cpu fan connector from

>FAN1
>> >header to FAN3 stopped the wrong fsb problem completely. I don't

>know
>> >what made him try it. He said he did not know why it worked.
>> >
>> >So far I have had about 16 boots all correct.
>> >

>>
>> Okay, you get the prize for weird!
>>
>> Glad you got it sorted, pity about shuttle's support, it really will
>> effect my choice of compact PC next time.
>>
>> D0d6y.

>
>D0d6y, I spoke too soon! The next day the Zen was back to booting at
>2.49 GHz. I am wondering if the reason for the seeming cure was not so
>much the change of fan header, but the fact that the pc was moved, case
>was opened, the motherboard was maybe flexed slightly. So I am going to
>see if the RAM modules are seated properly.
>
>Still


If movement is the cause, and everything is seated, it's starting to
sound like a dodgy motherboard again, maybe a hairline crack on a
track, or a dry joint.

D0d6y.
 
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ozwald@operamail.com
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      01-30-2005, 10:44 AM
> If movement is the cause, and everything is seated, it's sta*rting
to sound
> like a dodgy motherboard again, maybe a hairline crack* on a
> track, or a dry joint.


> D0d6y.


It looks like just changing the fan header is enough to cause a change
temporarily.
I found that changing the fan header back again from FAN3 to FAN1
brought a number of correct boots but the next day (today) it is back
to 15 x 166.

 
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Dodgy
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      01-31-2005, 04:40 AM
On 30 Jan 2005 02:44:29 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>> If movement is the cause, and everything is seated, it's sta*rting

>to sound
>> like a dodgy motherboard again, maybe a hairline crack* on a
>> track, or a dry joint.

>
>> D0d6y.

>
>It looks like just changing the fan header is enough to cause a change
>temporarily.
>I found that changing the fan header back again from FAN3 to FAN1
>brought a number of correct boots but the next day (today) it is back
>to 15 x 166.


Me and my big mouth...

Guess what I just noticed... Yeap, I've got the Z bios, and booted at
166x21 (3.4ghz). I just happened to go into regedit for a nose, and
saw the CPU speed. I don't get to see it very often as my monitor
takes too long to wake up, so the PC is already past the front bios
screen before I get a picture appear. I'm amazed my little 2.8Ghz P4
runs so well at that speed!

Back to the shuttle fault reporting... Oh joy.

D0d6y.
 
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ozwald@operamail.com
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      02-01-2005, 12:07 PM
Update... I don't have to change the fan header or clear the CMOS (and
go back to 00:00 Dec 21st 2004!!!); I spent half an hour experimenting,
for example since i seemed to be stuck with a 166 MHz bus speed, I
tried to see how far I could overclock in the BIOS, and it seemed
stable at 10-12 MHz overclock, giving me about 2.8 GHz, but a couple of
boots later I was was surprised to see my 200 MHz fsb back again, with
the overclock it made Windows unstartable. After removing the overclock
it stayed OK all day over about 6 reboots at intervals. Next day
(today) I got the bad fsb at first boot, but after a couple of entries
into the bios, changing things like RAM frequency up and down, I had a
good fsb at boot which seems to have stuck again...

I have twice made wildly optimistic overclock & RAM speed settings in
the BIOS, rendering the system totally unbootable, so that I HAD to
remove power and use the clear CMOS button, then load bios failsafe
defaults, I both times got my 200 MHz fsb back.

One can get awfully subjective about these things - prone to imagine
that one's own efforts are changing the situation when really it's
random or thermal. However I have a feeling (irrational?) that a
straight series of boot cycles alone are not going to throw up a good
fsb, I was trying that before & getting long runs of consistently
erroneous starts.

I wonder if the fix that Shuttle thought they had found for version Z
needs to be made more aggressive or something.

Or the voltages at boot are fluctuating too wildly for a correct
hardware detection to happen every time. I could try taking loads off
the psu like my 2nd hdd & see what happens...

Incidentally I have undervolted down to 1.175 volts, and the rig seems
stable and cool at 3 GHz - 39 C (idle) 54 C ( arduous mpeg4 encoding in
VirtualDub) with Speedfan set for very quiet operation (desired temp
62, min fan 1% max fan 15%)
These temps are about 10 degrees cooler than setting cpu voltage to
Auto in the BIOS.

 
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