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Sun Ultra 40 M2 hard drive sleds

 
 
Benjamin Gawert
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      09-17-2008, 07:57 PM
Are the SATA/SAS hard drive sleds in a Sun Ultra 40 M2 the same as the
ones used in the old Enterprise Servers (i.e. E250, E450), the Ultra 60,
and the Sun Blade 1000? I want to know if I can "recycle" old sleds for
use in a Ultra 40 M2.

Benjamin
 
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DoN. Nichols
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      09-18-2008, 01:05 AM
On 2008-09-17, Benjamin Gawert <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Are the SATA/SAS hard drive sleds in a Sun Ultra 40 M2 the same as the
> ones used in the old Enterprise Servers (i.e. E250, E450), the Ultra 60,
> and the Sun Blade 1000? I want to know if I can "recycle" old sleds for
> use in a Ultra 40 M2.


Hmm ... I've never seen the Ultra-40 (nor the E250 and E450,
FWIW), but the disk drive holders for the Ultra 60 and the Sun Blade
1000 (and 2000) are called "spuds" not "sleds" (and don't look enough
like what I would accept as "sleds" anyway, like the ones for the EMC
Fiber Channel rack trays.)

Now -- some drives will have a separate plate screwed onto the
bottom to control airflow for proper cooling. In the Ultra-60, and the
Sun Blade [12]000 these are fine. In a Multipack (which accepts the
same spuds) they are deadly for a drive in the bottom slot on each side,
as they get hung on the bottom plastic trim of the chassis. (You can get
away with them in other slots, but it is safer to not use them at all,
as there is a risk of someone in a hurry sticking one in the bottom
slot, where it will be until you can devote a lot of attention to
getting the drive back out. :-)

The simple thing to do is to try it. Will the drive slide in,
and will the connector line up and mate? If they will, you have the
answer to your question.

The Ultra-40 is also a bit too new to be covered by my Sun FEH
(Field Engineer's handbook), which could otherwise answer some of the
questions.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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Benjamin Gawert
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      09-18-2008, 05:30 AM
* DoN. Nichols:

> Hmm ... I've never seen the Ultra-40 (nor the E250 and E450,
> FWIW), but the disk drive holders for the Ultra 60 and the Sun Blade
> 1000 (and 2000) are called "spuds" not "sleds"


I more often see the term "sled" reffering to them, and I am sure people
understand what I mean.

The sleds/spuds are all the same for internal SCSI/FC hard drives in the
old UltraSPARC workstations and servers, bei it Ultra 2, Ultra 60, Ultra
80, SB 1000, SB2000, E250, E450, E3000, E3500 etc.


> Now -- some drives will have a separate plate screwed onto the
> bottom to control airflow for proper cooling. In the Ultra-60, and the
> Sun Blade [12]000 these are fine. In a Multipack (which accepts the
> same spuds) they are deadly for a drive in the bottom slot on each side,
> as they get hung on the bottom plastic trim of the chassis. (You can get
> away with them in other slots, but it is safer to not use them at all,
> as there is a risk of someone in a hurry sticking one in the bottom
> slot, where it will be until you can devote a lot of attention to
> getting the drive back out. :-)


I never used any of these cooling plates in any of my Suns, no problems
so far. They can't help cooling the drive anyways, all they can do is
prevent heat from another lower drive heating up the electronics.

> The simple thing to do is to try it. Will the drive slide in,
> and will the connector line up and mate? If they will, you have the
> answer to your question.


Which is definitely what I had done if I had a Ultra 40 M2. However, at
the moment I don't. I'm thinking of ordering one but besides other
factors it depends on if I can use these hard disk plastic thingies in
the Ultra 40 or if I had to buy new ones (which then probably are hard
to come by without hard drives). On the images I've seen they look the
same, however I'd prefer if someone with an Ultra 40 could very that for me.

Benjamin

> The Ultra-40 is also a bit too new to be covered by my Sun FEH
> (Field Engineer's handbook), which could otherwise answer some of the
> questions.
>
> Good Luck,
> DoN.
>

 
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Benjamin Gawert
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      09-18-2008, 04:08 PM
* Trinean:

> The SPUD Brackets are physically the same.


Thanks for the info! I already suspected that by looking at pictures of
both brackets, but it could have been that there are small differences
which are not noticeable by looking on pictures. Thanks for clarification!

> The part number for the drive written on the bracket will differ if you
> reuse them for other systems.
> The Ultra 40 doesn't need the heat plate like some systems have on the
> bottom of the disks.


I doubt that any hard drives made in the last 8+ years or so do really
put up enough heat to require a heat plate to prevent the heat from
melting other drives' electronics.

Benjamin
 
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DoN. Nichols
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      09-18-2008, 07:48 PM
On 2008-09-18, Benjamin Gawert <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> * DoN. Nichols:
>
>> Hmm ... I've never seen the Ultra-40 (nor the E250 and E450,
>> FWIW), but the disk drive holders for the Ultra 60 and the Sun Blade
>> 1000 (and 2000) are called "spuds" not "sleds"

>
> I more often see the term "sled" reffering to them, and I am sure people
> understand what I mean.
>
> The sleds/spuds are all the same for internal SCSI/FC hard drives in the
> old UltraSPARC workstations and servers, bei it Ultra 2, Ultra 60, Ultra
> 80, SB 1000, SB2000, E250, E450, E3000, E3500 etc.


Also the Sun Fire 280R (which is really a SB-2000 in rack-mount
format, with the drives moved to the front panel for hot swap, and
dual hot-swap power supplies.

>> Now -- some drives will have a separate plate screwed onto the
>> bottom to control airflow for proper cooling.


[ ... ]

> I never used any of these cooling plates in any of my Suns, no problems
> so far. They can't help cooling the drive anyways, all they can do is
> prevent heat from another lower drive heating up the electronics.


The ones with louvers angled oppositely at either end will also
redirect airflow (assuming that it is flowing from connector to spud
lever end) so it flows over the chips to keep it a bit cooler. However,
if the airflow is from side to side, that particular style would not do
anything useful.

The other style, with fingers at the sides, will probably only
do some radiated heat control, and perhaps reduce turbulence with air
flowing from side to side.

The MultiPack has the airflow along the drive's length.

The SB-[12]000 has it side to side. (I think that the Ultra-60
does as well, but I would have to go dig one up to check for sure.

The Ultra-2 is back-to-front, I think.

So is the Sun Fire 280R.

And the A-1000 RAID box and the D-1000 JBOD (same box, different
logic card).

>> The simple thing to do is to try it. Will the drive slide in,
>> and will the connector line up and mate? If they will, you have the
>> answer to your question.

>
> Which is definitely what I had done if I had a Ultra 40 M2. However, at
> the moment I don't. I'm thinking of ordering one but besides other
> factors it depends on if I can use these hard disk plastic thingies


You have the ones which are all plastic -- or the ones with the
metal extraction lever in front? I far prefer the latter.

> in
> the Ultra 40 or if I had to buy new ones (which then probably are hard
> to come by without hard drives).


You could always find out what Sun charges for them. :-) I think
that there is a separate barcode number for a bare spud, as well as one
for spuds with specific drives pre-installed.

> On the images I've seen they look the
> same, however I'd prefer if someone with an Ultra 40 could very that for me.


Well ... I can't do that I'm afraid. My newest machines are
SB-2000, with SB-1000 and Sun Fire 280R coming close to that. :-)

Note that my FEH covers the SB-1000, but not the SB-2000 or the
Sun Fire 280R. (The FEH has a 2000 date, and the badge on the SB-2000
say "2002" and "Twenty years of innovation". :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

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DoN. Nichols
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      09-18-2008, 07:52 PM
On 2008-09-18, Trinean <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

[ ... ]

> The SPUD Brackets are physically the same.
> The part number for the drive written on the bracket will differ if you
> reuse them for other systems.


Good! That solves the OP's problem

> The Ultra 40 doesn't need the heat plate like some systems have on the
> bottom of the disks.


Just out of curiosity -- which systems *do* need them? I've
found them on drives in Ultra-2, and in a SB-2000, as well as some
drives which I believe were in a A-1000 prior to them being offered by a
local used computer store. :-) But I don't think that I've ever found a
situation where they were *needed*.

Thanks,
DoN.

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Benjamin Gawert
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      09-18-2008, 08:12 PM
* DoN. Nichols:
> You have the ones which are all plastic -- or the ones with the metal
> extraction lever in front? I far prefer the latter.


I do prefer them, too. But I only have seen the ones with platic lever
once, and found it somewhat cheap made. I also had some 3rd party spuds
which were also completely plastic and already deformed when pulling
them out during removal of a hard drive from a system.

I find the ones with metal lever quite good, much better than most other
sled/tray/rail system used by other manufacturers. They are simple,
don't take up much space, and reliable.

>> the Ultra 40 or if I had to buy new ones (which then probably are
>> hard to come by without hard drives).

>
> You could always find out what Sun charges for them. :-) I think that
> there is a separate barcode number for a bare spud, as well as one
> for spuds with specific drives pre-installed.


Right, but I'm not really prepared to pay more for the spud than for the
drive it should hold ;-)

And since the only thing that seems to be different between the old
FC/SCSI spuds and the Ultra 40 spuds is the color, well...

> Well ... I can't do that I'm afraid. My newest machines are SB-2000,
> with SB-1000 and Sun Fire 280R coming close to that. :-)
>
> Note that my FEH covers the SB-1000, but not the SB-2000 or the Sun
> Fire 280R. (The FEH has a 2000 date, and the badge on the SB-2000
> say "2002" and "Twenty years of innovation". :-)


When speaking about the SB2000: do you know if all SB2000 had the "20
years of innovation" writing, or where there certain "anniversary
models" only?

Benjamin, thinking of getting a SB200 front cover for his SB1000
 
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DoN. Nichols
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      09-19-2008, 02:04 AM
On 2008-09-18, Benjamin Gawert <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> * DoN. Nichols:
>> You have the ones which are all plastic -- or the ones with the metal
>> extraction lever in front? I far prefer the latter.

>
> I do prefer them, too. But I only have seen the ones with platic lever
> once, and found it somewhat cheap made.


I've got a few. They came with the drives in a 6-hole Multipack
(9 GB drives), and I've had some failures when pulling drives using
them. So they are not as satisfactory.

I have seen *one* failure in the "good" kind. It broke along
the left side, just behind the hinge. Unfortunately, it was one with
the WWN for the drive on the lever's label. I wound up figuring out how
to move the label to an unbroken body so the drive is properly labeled
again. :-)

> I also had some 3rd party spuds
> which were also completely plastic and already deformed when pulling
> them out during removal of a hard drive from a system.


Ouch!

> I find the ones with metal lever quite good, much better than most other
> sled/tray/rail system used by other manufacturers. They are simple,
> don't take up much space, and reliable.


Agreed. Not totally perfect, as evidence above. The drive came
in a SB-1000 FWIW.

>>> the Ultra 40 or if I had to buy new ones (which then probably are
>>> hard to come by without hard drives).

>>
>> You could always find out what Sun charges for them. :-) I think that
>> there is a separate barcode number for a bare spud, as well as one
>> for spuds with specific drives pre-installed.

>
> Right, but I'm not really prepared to pay more for the spud than for the
> drive it should hold ;-)


Understood.

> And since the only thing that seems to be different between the old
> FC/SCSI spuds and the Ultra 40 spuds is the color, well...


Hmm ... color of the side rails and body under the metal lever?

>> Well ... I can't do that I'm afraid. My newest machines are SB-2000,
>> with SB-1000 and Sun Fire 280R coming close to that. :-)
>>
>> Note that my FEH covers the SB-1000, but not the SB-2000 or the Sun
>> Fire 280R. (The FEH has a 2000 date, and the badge on the SB-2000
>> say "2002" and "Twenty years of innovation". :-)

>
> When speaking about the SB2000: do you know if all SB2000 had the "20
> years of innovation" writing, or where there certain "anniversary
> models" only?


I can only speak with certainty about three.

The one which a friend and neighbor has had for a while.

The one which I got from an eBay vendor which happened to have a
1.2 GHz CPU instead of the stated 900 MHz one.

The second one which I got form the same vendor, to see whether
there was another 1.2 GHz in it. (There was.) But that one
arrived with the anti-theft block in place, and had been hit
hard enough there to bend the back and stress the connector
stack for TTYA and TTYB (and render the FC-AL disk invisible
form the CPU, even though it was there.) Well ... it had the
1.2 GHz in it, which was what mattered to me. Once I pulled the
system board and installed it in a SB-1000 chassis the system
would recognize the FC-AL drives again.

Anyway -- all three have the "2002" and the text. I have no
idea whether there were any which did not have that. But they also all
seem to have that front panel which looks so different (and so gaudy)
when illuminated by electronic flash. :-) You've probably noticed this
in many eBay auctions. :-) A few auctions even have some shots with
electronic flash, and some with the natural lighting in the room.

> Benjamin, thinking of getting a SB200 front cover for his SB1000


The front panel only needs two screws (in the CD-ROM cage) and a
little clearance under the front to disconnect the hooks at the bottom
to remove it and move it over.

However -- note that it will look a little strange. The SB-2000
also has a different color plastic "skin" over the metal chassis. The
SB-1000 has a fairly light gray skin, while that on the SB-2000 is a
dark gray-purple.

If you strip the skin off and move it too, then you will look
normal. There are tricks to getting them off intact, and the clips for
the top skin were both broken in the impact which damaged the chassis.
To get the right-side (the bulge side) off, you have to pull
*everything* out of the rear chassis. The system board to free the
power supply connectors, then the power supply itself, then you have to
reach in with two small screwdrivers to lift two clips (once you figure
out how they differ from other guides which are part of the skin), and
then you can slide the skin forward and remove it. It helps to have
three hands to do this. :-) This is also easier to do when the front
panel is already removed. I *think* that one of the clips for the top
skin also has to be accessed through the power supply cavity.

All in all -- if you have a chassis with the skin and front
panel of an SB-2000 -- just move everything into it. It is easier. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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DoN. Nichols
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      09-19-2008, 02:20 AM
On 2008-09-18, Trinean <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> "DoN. Nichols" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)-and-d.com...
>> Just out of curiosity -- which systems *do* need them? I've
>> found them on drives in Ultra-2, and in a SB-2000, as well as some
>> drives which I believe were in a A-1000 prior to them being offered by a
>> local used computer store. :-) But I don't think that I've ever found a
>> situation where they were *needed*.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> DoN.

>
> Servers like Sun Fire V210/240 have them.
> Storage like the A1000/D1000, A5x00, S1 and D240 all have them.
> Workstations like the Sun Blade 1000 and 2000 have them.


O.K. I have only one in a Sun Blade 2000 which has one, and
several drives without. But these are lower power 1" hight drives, so
it does not matter.

And I've run a nearly full 12-slot D-1000 with only a very few
drives fitted with plates. No problems.

My Sun Fire 280R came with no drives (picked up at a hamfest),
so it has never had any drives with cooling plates. Granted, I'm
running it with fairly recent 146 GB drives, so there is less heat than
with older drives. (1" high drives are all that will fit in that
system. :-)

FWIW, the lower drive (drive 0) is at 36 C, and the upper drive
is at 38 C. The environmental status (according to RSC) is 35 C for the
interior of the chassis, and 56 C and 55 C for the two 900 MHz Cu CPUs.

The SB-2000 is running the disks at 32 C (drive 1) and no
information from drive 1 (Seagate/Hitachi) ST3146807FC.

And -- for the drives which specify maximum temperature, there
is quite a bit of elbow room.

> This is not a comprehensive list.
> Just what I could think of without going through every system in the
> handbook.


Understood.

> I don't know that they "need" them, but Sun ships the drives for these
> systems with them on.


:-)

> My guess is storage like the A1000/D1000 and A5x00 need them the most since
> the drives are right up against one another.


Especially the 12-slot A1000/D1000 fully loaded with drives. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Benjamin Gawert
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      09-19-2008, 05:40 PM
* DoN. Nichols:

> And I've run a nearly full 12-slot D-1000 with only a very few
> drives fitted with plates. No problems.


The reason today is probably more to prevent people from touching the
drive's electronics when pluging them in or removing them. I strongly
doubt that they are necessary for heat dissipation or protection.

Benjamin
 
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