UltraSPARC: mixing wide and narrow scsi devices externally

Hi Community,

after "Googling around" for several days and trying a few things
without success I now ask for help.

I have probs with the SCSI Interface while combining 68-pole with
50-pole SCSI targets although it should work at least somehow.
OK, I know that having those mixed devices the speed of the scsi bus
goes down to the speed of the slowest component but about that I don't
care. Speed is only a minor problem to me as this machine is a "night
worker" ...

Here's the setup:
Sun Ultra 1 UPA/SBus (UltraSPARC 200MHz), No Keyboard
OpenBoot 3.11, 512 MB memory installed, Serial #3873118.
SunOS Release 5.8 Version Generic 32-bit
(used as a server without graphical interface)
with fast/wide scsi host adaptor onboard and 1 internal HD:
4 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DCAS-34330W) sd0 at fas0: target 0 lun 0
External 4 Slot Housing, connected to a SBus SCSI Card via a UltraWide
shielded 68-pole cable:
1. 4 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DCAS-34330W) sd16 at isp0: target 1 lun 0
2. 36 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DPSS-336950N) sd17 at isp0: target 2 lun 0
3. CD ROM SCSI II 50-pin sd20 at isp0: target 5 lun 0
attached via 68-pin to 50-pin adaptor (upper bits terminated)
4. HP DDS3 DAT SCSI II 50-pin st13 at isp0: target 6 lun 0
attached via 68-pin to 50-pin adaptor (upper bits terminated)
5. Ended by an external active Terminator (68 pin)

When I don't use the DAT or CD-ROM drives everything works fine.
I use the machine as a Bachup Server for nightly rsyncs to the
external 36 GB disk, where as the other 4 GB external Disk is a Backup
disk for the boot HD.

When I try to do a mt command it takes extremly long until the prompt
comes back
mt -f /dev/rmt/0m status
HP DDS-3 4mm DAT tape drive:
sense key(0x6)= Unit Attention residual= 0 retries= 0
file no= 0 block no= 0

and the following entries can be found in the messages log:
Jul 2 21:41:11 sparc scsi: [ID 107833 kern.warning] WARNING:
/sbus@1f,0/QLGC,isp@0,10000 (isp0):
Jul 2 21:41:11 sparc Target 6 reducing transfer rate
Jul 2 21:41:13 sparc scsi: [ID 107833 kern.warning] WARNING:
/sbus@1f,0/QLGC,isp@0,10000 (isp0):
Jul 2 21:41:13 sparc Target 6 disabled wide SCSI mode
Jul 2 21:47:57 sparc scsi: [ID 107833 kern.warning] WARNING:
/sbus@1f,0/QLGC,isp@0,10000 (isp0):
Jul 2 21:47:57 sparc Target 6 reducing transfer rate
Jul 2 21:47:59 sparc scsi: [ID 107833 kern.warning] WARNING:
/sbus@1f,0/QLGC,isp@0,10000 (isp0):
Jul 2 21:47:59 sparc Target 6 disabled wide SCSI mode

Also while booting the machine I see this warning when I access the
sparc via a serial cable:
WARNING: /sbus@1f,0/QLGC,isp@0,10000 (isp0):
Target 6 reducing transfer rate
WARNING: /sbus@1f,0/QLGC,isp@0,10000 (isp0):
Target 6 disabled wide SCSI mode


Up to now I tried step by step to alter the scsi option in
/etc/system, touched /reconfigure and rebooted the machine.
But nothing changes.

I tried:
scsi_options=0x58
scsi_options=0x78
scsi_options=0x178

Set the Jumper on the back of the DAT for Term Power on and off
Adjusted the 8 DIP Switches on the bottom side of the DAT to
PC Config settings all on but 3
Sun specific settings all on but 6 and 7.

In /usr/include/sys/scsi/conf/autoconf.h I couldn't find something
helpful.
I made sure that the narrow devices are at the end of the SCSI chain.
The devices are attached to the cable coresponding to their SCSI IDs
1, 2, 5 and 6, while 5 and 6 are the 50-pin devices.
The adaptors 68 to 50 pin are terminated (upper bits terminated) and
so is the end of the SCSI Bus.

If anyone has any suggestion, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,
Axel

Axel Dahmen wrote:

> I have probs with the SCSI Interface while combining 68-pole with
> 50-pole SCSI targets although it should work at least somehow.
> OK, I know that having those mixed devices the speed of the scsi bus
> goes down to the speed of the slowest component but about that I don't
> care. Speed is only a minor problem to me as this machine is a "night
> worker" ...
>
> Here's the setup:
> Sun Ultra 1 UPA/SBus (UltraSPARC 200MHz), No Keyboard
> with fast/wide scsi host adaptor onboard and 1 internal HD:
> 4 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DCAS-34330W) sd0 at fas0: target 0 lun 0
> External 4 Slot Housing, connected to a SBus SCSI Card via a UltraWide
> shielded 68-pole cable:
> 1. 4 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DCAS-34330W) sd16 at isp0: target 1 lun 0

In addition to Thomas's comment I would suggest you look at
installing this disk internally. The U1 has 2 hard disk slots.
You may as well use them both.

> 2. 36 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DPSS-336950N) sd17 at isp0: target 2 lun 0
> 3. CD ROM SCSI II 50-pin sd20 at isp0: target 5 lun 0
> attached via 68-pin to 50-pin adaptor (upper bits terminated)

Why not install this CD-ROM internally as well?

> 4. HP DDS3 DAT SCSI II 50-pin st13 at isp0: target 6 lun 0
> attached via 68-pin to 50-pin adaptor (upper bits terminated)

Is it really a DDS3? I would have expected it to have a 68 pin
rather than 50 pin interface.

-am © 2003

Anthony Mandic <> wrote in message news:<>...
> Axel Dahmen wrote:
>
> > I have probs with the SCSI Interface while combining 68-pole with
> > 50-pole SCSI targets although it should work at least somehow.
> > OK, I know that having those mixed devices the speed of the scsi bus
> > goes down to the speed of the slowest component but about that I don't
> > care. Speed is only a minor problem to me as this machine is a "night
> > worker" ...
> >
> > Here's the setup:
> > Sun Ultra 1 UPA/SBus (UltraSPARC 200MHz), No Keyboard
> > with fast/wide scsi host adaptor onboard and 1 internal HD:
> > 4 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DCAS-34330W) sd0 at fas0: target 0 lun 0
> > External 4 Slot Housing, connected to a SBus SCSI Card via a UltraWide
> > shielded 68-pole cable:
> > 1. 4 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DCAS-34330W) sd16 at isp0: target 1 lun 0
>
> In addition to Thomas's comment I would suggest you look at
> installing this disk internally. The U1 has 2 hard disk slots.
> You may as well use them both.
>
> > 2. 36 GB 68 pin disk (IBM-DPSS-336950N) sd17 at isp0: target 2 lun 0
> > 3. CD ROM SCSI II 50-pin sd20 at isp0: target 5 lun 0
> > attached via 68-pin to 50-pin adaptor (upper bits terminated)
>
> Why not install this CD-ROM internally as well?
>
> > 4. HP DDS3 DAT SCSI II 50-pin st13 at isp0: target 6 lun 0
> > attached via 68-pin to 50-pin adaptor (upper bits terminated)
>
> Is it really a DDS3? I would have expected it to have a 68 pin
> rather than 50 pin interface.
>
> -am © 2003

Hi Thomas and Anthony,

trying Thomas advice to disable the termination of the 68 to 50 Pin
connectors actually didn't made a difference although it is clearly
false to have 3 terminations on the bus.
The warning messages remained the same ...
After opening the external box to correct the termination I recognized
that the external cable eventually could have been faulty (1 of the 68
pins was fairly low and didn't reach out as far as the others).
I took another cable, but that didn't change anything.
While changing the external cable I saw, that the cable wasn't
connected to the mainboards external SCSI port but to a sbus card
port.
I changed it to the mainboard scsi port and from then on everything
went fine.
I can reach every device in the external box wether it is wide or
narrow scsi!

So my last question now is:
What type of scsi Interface is integrated on the mainboard and which
sbus card is installed, that is, does any one of you know how I could
identify the scsi interface and eventually find out it's speed (if
possible by software, so I don't have to open the cover again)?

Anthony, I couldn't mount the drives or some of the drives in the
housing, because I always use special carriers (ICY Dock MB988) with
backed up HDs mounted in so that if I have a problem (disk crash or
similar) I just power off the machine, replace the HD with a spare,
power it on and have it running again within a minute.
To have the ICY Dock mounted in the sparc housing the only place to go
was the CD-ROM bay, so everything else had to go into a separate box.

Yes, it is a 50-pin DDS3 Streamer: HP C1537. I have never seen a HP
DDS3 Streamer with a 68-pin Interface. As far as I know there are only
the HP DDS4 types which are coming with 68-pins.

Thank you very much for your suggestions and help.

Axel

(Axel Dahmen) writes:

> Hi Thomas and Anthony,
>
> trying Thomas advice to disable the termination of the 68 to 50 Pin
> connectors actually didn't made a difference although it is clearly
> false to have 3 terminations on the bus.
> The warning messages remained the same ...
> After opening the external box to correct the termination I recognized
> that the external cable eventually could have been faulty (1 of the 68
> pins was fairly low and didn't reach out as far as the others).
> I took another cable, but that didn't change anything.
> While changing the external cable I saw, that the cable wasn't
> connected to the mainboards external SCSI port but to a sbus card
> port.
> I changed it to the mainboard scsi port and from then on everything
> went fine.
> I can reach every device in the external box wether it is wide or
> narrow scsi!
>
> So my last question now is:
> What type of scsi Interface is integrated on the mainboard and which
> sbus card is installed, that is, does any one of you know how I could
> identify the scsi interface and eventually find out it's speed (if
> possible by software, so I don't have to open the cover again)?

Check the SCSI logo besides the connector. If it has an extra angle
besides the square, then it is a differential controller, and likely
HVD (High Voltage Differential), which won't work with single ended
devices.

Run /usr/platform/sun4u/sbin/prtdiag and you will see what's in the
box. Here's what's contained in my U2:

spiff:~ (202)> /usr/platform/sun4u/sbin/prtdiag
System Configuration: Sun Microsystems sun4u Sun Ultra 2 UPA/SBus (2 X UltraSPARC-II 400MHz)
System clock frequency: 100 MHz
Memory size: 512 Megabytes

========================= CPUs =========================

Run Ecache CPU CPU
Brd CPU Module MHz MB Impl. Mask
--- --- ------- ----- ------ ------ ----
0 0 0 400 2.0 US-II 9.0
0 1 1 400 2.0 US-II 9.0


========================= IO Cards =========================

Bus Freq
Brd Type MHz Slot Name Model
--- ---- ---- ---------- ---------------------------- --------------------
0 SBus 25 0 SUNW,DBRIe
0 SBus 25 1 SUNW,pcmcia
0 SBus 25 2 MAGMA_Sp
0 SBus 25 3 dma/esp (scsi) 500-1869-01
0 SBus 25 3 lebuffer/le (network) 500-1869-01
0 SBus 25 14 SUNW,fas/sd (block)
0 SBus 25 14 SUNW,hme
0 SBus 25 14 SUNW,bpp
0 UPA 100 30 FFB, Double Buffered SUNW,501-3129

No failures found in System
===========================

Cheers,
Thomas

In article <>,
Anthony Mandic <> wrote:
>
> OK, all the Sun Unipacks are 68-pin. I believe Sun OEM the
> tape drives from HP (as well as other sources) so perhaps
> they are 50-pin internally (I seem to recall that the DDS2
> unit was while the Unipack itself was 68-pin).

Open front 611 Unipack boxes are 50-pin narrow SCSI internally.
They are used with CD drives, and DDS or QIC tape drives.
They have 68-pin wide SCSI connectors externally, and
automatic termination for both the upper and lower half of
the SCSI bus if used as directed. (instructions inside the
top cover).

Closed front 611 Unipack boxes are fitted for 80-pin SCA disk drives.

carl
--
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego

Anthony Mandic <> wrote in message news:<>...
> Axel Dahmen wrote:
>
> > While changing the external cable I saw, that the cable wasn't
> > connected to the mainboards external SCSI port but to a sbus card
> > port.
> > I changed it to the mainboard scsi port and from then on everything
> > went fine.
> > I can reach every device in the external box wether it is wide or
> > narrow scsi!
>
> Since you changed the SCSI HBA you'd also need to have a
> reconfigure (which I gather you did). I don't see how that
> would have made any difference though.
>
> > So my last question now is:
> > What type of scsi Interface is integrated on the mainboard and which
> > sbus card is installed, that is, does any one of you know how I could
> > identify the scsi interface and eventually find out it's speed (if
> > possible by software, so I don't have to open the cover again)?
>
> prtconf will tell you. The SCSI SBUS card should also have
> some text stamped on it edge plate's face. You should be
> able to see this when looking at it from the back of the
> machine.
>
> > Anthony, I couldn't mount the drives or some of the drives in the
> > housing, because I always use special carriers (ICY Dock MB988) with
> > backed up HDs mounted in so that if I have a problem (disk crash or
> > similar) I just power off the machine, replace the HD with a spare,
> > power it on and have it running again within a minute.
>
> Yes, that's reasonable but it would only apply to the hard disks
> since read only devices don't "crash".
>
> > To have the ICY Dock mounted in the sparc housing the only place to go
> > was the CD-ROM bay, so everything else had to go into a separate box.
>
> You'd probably need a Sun mounting kit to put in the CD-ROM or
> DVD player. Perhaps best to leave it as is (but its useful to
> know that you do have more capacity).
>
> > Yes, it is a 50-pin DDS3 Streamer: HP C1537. I have never seen a HP
> > DDS3 Streamer with a 68-pin Interface. As far as I know there are only
> > the HP DDS4 types which are coming with 68-pins.
>
> OK, all the Sun Unipacks are 68-pin. I believe Sun OEM the
> tape drives from HP (as well as other sources) so perhaps
> they are 50-pin internally (I seem to recall that the DDS2
> unit was while the Unipack itself was 68-pin).
>
> -am © 2003

Thanks for the advice.
After running prtdiag I got the following output:

/usr/platform/sun4u/sbin/prtdiag
System Configuration: Sun Microsystems sun4u Sun Ultra 1 UPA/SBus
(UltraSPARC 200MHz)
System clock frequency: 100 MHz
Memory size: 512 Megabytes

========================= CPUs =========================

Run Ecache CPU CPU
Brd CPU Module MHz MB Impl. Mask
--- --- ------- ----- ------ ------ ----
0 0 0 200 0.5 US-I 4.0


========================= IO Cards =========================

Bus Freq
Brd Type MHz Slot Name Model
--- ---- ---- ---- --------------------------------
----------------------
0 SBus 25 0 QLGC,isp/sd (block) QLGC,ISP1000U
0 SBus 25 14 SUNW,fas/sd (block)
0 SBus 25 14 SUNW,hme
0 SBus 25 14 SUNW,bpp

No failures found in System
===========================

I guess the SUNW,fas/sd is the external Sbus SCSI Card, but what else
does it tell me?

Axel