1. This forum section is a read-only archive which contains old newsgroup posts. If you wish to post a query, please do so in one of our main forum sections (here). This way you will get a faster, better response from the members on Motherboard Point.

2nd CPU on a Sun Blade 2000 problem

Discussion in 'Sun Hardware' started by pne.chomko@comcast.net, Sep 28, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Hi All,

    I have a Sun Blade 2000 with a single 900 Mhz. I added another CPU
    module and now my system won't boot. I tried to go back to the
    original configuration and my system still will not boot.

    Any suggestions?

    Eric
     
    , Sep 28, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. DoN. Nichols Guest

    On 2008-09-28, <> wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I have a Sun Blade 2000 with a single 900 Mhz. I added another CPU
    > module and now my system won't boot. I tried to go back to the
    > original configuration and my system still will not boot.


    Hmm ... first off -- does the original CPU have a label on it
    saying: "US-III Cu"?

    Second -- does the new CPU have the same label on it?

    You can't mix CU and non-CU CPUs, but you can mix speeds. The
    only place where this is a problem is the 900 MHz CPUs, because those
    come in both Cu and non-Cu versions.

    Non-Cu 501-4999 600 MHz

    Non-Cu 501-5675 750 MHz
    Non-Cu 501-5895 750 MHz
    Non-Cu 501-5969 750 MHz
    Non-Cu 501-5988 750 MHz
    Non-Cu 501-6196 750 MHz
    Non-Cu 501-6248 750 MHz (Netra 20)

    Non-Cu 501-5770 900 MHz
    Non-Cu 501-6197 900 MHz
    Non-Cu 501-6286 900 MHz

    ==================================================

    Cu 501-6002 900 MHz

    Cu 501-6395 1015 MHz

    Cu 501-6254 1050 MHz
    Cu 501-6749 1050 MHz


    Cu 501-6485 1200 MHz
    Cu 501-6745 1200 MHz
    Cu 501-6690 1200 MHz
    Cu 501-6750 1200 MHz
    Cu 501-6805 1200 MHz (Netra also)

    Don't mix CPUs from above and below the line of "==="

    > Any suggestions?


    Have you removed the CPU in the '1' slot? (most distant from the
    memory) and left the original in the '0' slot (closest to the memory)?

    Did you use the special (green matching the color of the ring on
    the CPU screws) torque wrench for removing, and especially for
    installing the CPUs? This is typically stored in a clip in the
    compartment where the DVD-ROM drive is mounted. Look for dayglo green.
    Older systems (SB-1000) have a different form of torque wrench -- a ring
    of steel wire bent so when you approach the proper torque, two ends of
    the ring get very close to touching. This is stored in a green plastic
    holder between the two disk drives.

    If you don't have either, you need to get a torque wrench which
    will handle a 5 inch pounds setting. The Utica TS-30 torque screwdriver
    supposedly goes from a max of 30 inch-pounds down to a minimum of 6 inch
    pounds, but it can be set one notch below that to give 5 inch-pounds.
    (The Utica label reads "LB IN" instead, but it means the same.)
    Comparing my TS-30 set at 5 inch-pounds to my TS-100 (calibrated in
    IN-OZ instead shows them to be matched at 60 IN-OZ, instead of the
    expected 80 IN-OZ. I guess that I need to properly calibrate them both
    to be sure. You then need a bit for it which fits the Robertson (square
    drive) screws -- and in particular the one which your CPU has.

    When removing, you should turn each screw no more than one full
    turn before moving to the other to turn it one full turn and then back
    to the first. (If you don't do this, you are likely to pop off the
    C-clip which holds the screw in place and retains the Teflon or Nylon
    washer under the ear of the CPU.)

    When *installing*, I also use a full turn per side, but
    something which I recently read from Sun says that it should be 1/4 turn
    per side -- takes forever.

    If the screws are not torqued correctly (either too loose or too
    tight) you can have problems. Too loose makes for unreliable
    connections, which can prevent booting. Too tight makes for damaged
    connectors -- either on the CPU module or the system board, and can
    prevent booting.

    Also -- poorly seated memory modules can prevent booting.

    And -- I had a system board (motherboard) which had been damaged
    by slightly bent pins on one CPU resulting in a board which could boot
    with either CPU in slot zero -- but only so long as nothing was in slot
    one. Put something in slot one, and it would not boot. I picked up a
    replacement system board for that system. It took an examination in
    good light and with a magnifier to spot the bent pins (they were simply
    leaning over perhaps ten degrees towards the center of the CPU module.
    I straightened them and it worked fine with another CPU in the
    replacement system board.

    So -- these are some things to check out.

    I don't know whether a mix of Cu and non-Cu CPUs will damage
    anything, or just prevent booting. But Sun makes a big deal about not
    mixing them, so I have not. (Yes, I have an older SB-1000 with 750 MHz
    CPUs, but I am currently running with a pair of 1200 MHz ones in this
    SB-2000. My wife is running another SB-1000 with the two 900 MHz ones
    which I had been using before.

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: <> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
     
    DoN. Nichols, Sep 28, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Guest

    On Sep 28, 12:47 am, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > On 2008-09-28, <> wrote:
    >
    > > Hi All,

    >
    > > I have a Sun Blade 2000 with a single 900 Mhz. I added another CPU
    > > module and now my system won't boot. I tried to go back to the
    > > original configuration and my system still will not boot.

    >
    >         Hmm ... first off -- does the original CPU have a label on it
    > saying: "US-III Cu"?


    Yes.

    >
    >         Second -- does the new CPU have the same label on it?
    >


    All three are US-III Cu CPUs.

    >         You can't mix CU and non-CU CPUs, but you can mix speeds. The
    > only place where this is a problem is the 900 MHz CPUs, because those
    > come in both Cu and non-Cu versions.
    >
    >         Non-Cu  501-4999 600 MHz
    >
    >         Non-Cu  501-5675 750 MHz
    >         Non-Cu  501-5895 750 MHz
    >         Non-Cu  501-5969 750 MHz
    >         Non-Cu  501-5988 750 MHz
    >         Non-Cu  501-6196 750 MHz
    >         Non-Cu  501-6248 750 MHz (Netra 20)
    >
    >         Non-Cu  501-5770 900 MHz
    >         Non-Cu  501-6197 900 MHz
    >         Non-Cu  501-6286 900 MHz
    >
    >  ==================================================
    >
    >         Cu      501-6002 900 MHz
    >


    All three are Cu 501-6002 900 MHz

    >         Cu      501-6395 1015 MHz
    >
    >         Cu      501-6254 1050 MHz
    >         Cu      501-6749 1050 MHz
    >
    >         Cu      501-6485 1200 MHz
    >         Cu      501-6745 1200 MHz
    >         Cu      501-6690 1200 MHz
    >         Cu      501-6750 1200 MHz
    >         Cu      501-6805 1200 MHz (Netra also)
    >
    > Don't mix CPUs from above and below the line of "==="
    >
    > > Any suggestions?

    >
    >         Have you removed the CPU in the '1' slot? (most distant from the
    > memory) and left the original in the '0' slot (closest to the memory)?
    >


    I tried two together, no luck, then
    I tried all three one at a time and right now the orignal is back in
    the system alone.

    >         Did you use the special (green matching the color of the ring on
    > the CPU screws) torque wrench for removing, and especially for
    > installing the CPUs?  This is typically stored in a clip in the
    > compartment where the DVD-ROM drive is mounted.  Look for dayglo green.


    I have the dayglo green torque wrench, which I used to remove and
    install each CPU. Heard click at the end to indicate properly seated.
    The first time I did this the power was off but the power cord was
    still connected to the box. I am fearing the worst with that fact.

    > Older systems (SB-1000) have a different form of torque wrench -- a ring
    > of steel wire bent so when you approach the proper torque, two ends of
    > the ring get very close to touching.  This is stored in a green plastic
    > holder between the two disk drives.
    >
    >         If you don't have either, you need to get a torque wrenchwhich
    > will handle a 5 inch pounds setting.  The Utica TS-30 torque screwdriver
    > supposedly goes from a max of 30 inch-pounds down to a minimum of 6 inch
    > pounds, but it can be set one notch below that to give 5 inch-pounds.
    > (The Utica label reads "LB IN" instead, but it means the same.)
    > Comparing my TS-30 set at 5 inch-pounds to my TS-100 (calibrated in
    > IN-OZ instead shows them to be matched at 60 IN-OZ, instead of the
    > expected 80 IN-OZ.  I guess that I need to properly calibrate them both
    > to be sure.  You then need a bit for it which fits the Robertson (square
    > drive) screws -- and in particular the one which your CPU has.


    No, I have the dayglo torque wrench as stated.

    >
    >         When removing, you should turn each screw no more than one full
    > turn before moving to the other to turn it one full turn and then back
    > to the first.  (If you don't do this, you are likely to pop off the
    > C-clip which holds the screw in place and retains the Teflon or Nylon
    > washer under the ear of the CPU.)
    >
    >         When *installing*, I also use a full turn per side, but
    > something which I recently read from Sun says that it should be 1/4 turn
    > per side -- takes forever.
    >
    >         If the screws are not torqued correctly (either too looseor too
    > tight) you can have problems.  Too loose makes for unreliable
    > connections, which can prevent booting.  Too tight makes for damaged
    > connectors -- either on the CPU module or the system board, and can
    > prevent booting.
    >
    >         Also -- poorly seated memory modules can prevent booting.
    >


    Checked that.

    >         And -- I had a system board (motherboard) which had been damaged
    > by slightly bent pins on one CPU resulting in a board which could boot
    > with either CPU in slot zero -- but only so long as nothing was in slot
    > one.  Put something in slot one, and it would not boot.  I picked up a
    > replacement system board for that system.  It took an examination in
    > good light and with a magnifier to spot the bent pins (they were simply
    > leaning over perhaps ten degrees towards the center of the CPU module.
    > I straightened them and it worked fine with another CPU in the
    > replacement system board.
    >


    I checked that based upon your recommendation and found nothing that
    looked damaged or bent.

    >         So -- these are some things to check out.
    >
    >         I don't know whether a mix of Cu and non-Cu CPUs will damage
    > anything, or just prevent booting.  But Sun makes a big deal about not
    > mixing them, so I have not.  (Yes, I have an older SB-1000 with 750 MHz
    > CPUs, but I am currently running with a pair of 1200 MHz ones in this
    > SB-2000.  My wife is running another SB-1000 with the two 900 MHz ones
    > which I had been using before.
    >


    I'm certain that I have 900 Mhz US-III Cu CPUs. Given that I am
    fearing the worst, namely that I inadvertently damaged something else
    that prevents the system from booting.

    More about the boot process. When I push the power button on the SB
    2000 the front light comes on, the disk drives comes on and I hear the
    monitor click but no memory beep. The system just hums and nothing
    ever comes on the monitor screen. I am using a KVM switch scenario
    with a PC. Perhaps I should use each I/O device stand-alone, but I
    don;t see how that can be a problem. Maybe it is.

    Is there anyway I can test the system board or check for a blown fuse,
    bad battery, something beyond what I am now doing?

    >         Good Luck,
    >                 DoN.
    >


    Thanks, for your help. It is always much appreciated.

    Eric

    > --
    >  Email:   <>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    >         (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    >            --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
     
    , Sep 30, 2008
    #3
  4. DoN. Nichols Guest

    On 2008-09-30, <> wrote:
    > On Sep 28, 12:47 am, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    >> On 2008-09-28, <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > Hi All,

    >>
    >> > I have a Sun Blade 2000 with a single 900 Mhz. I added another CPU
    >> > module and now my system won't boot. I tried to go back to the
    >> > original configuration and my system still will not boot.

    >>
    >>         Hmm ... first off -- does the original CPU have a label on it
    >> saying: "US-III Cu"?

    >
    > Yes.
    >
    >>
    >>         Second -- does the new CPU have the same label on it?
    >>

    >
    > All three are US-III Cu CPUs.


    Good --- that eliminates that, and I can trim that part out of
    the quoted material.

    [ ... ]

    >> > Any suggestions?

    >>
    >>         Have you removed the CPU in the '1' slot? (most distant from the
    >> memory) and left the original in the '0' slot (closest to the memory)?
    >>

    >
    > I tried two together, no luck, then
    > I tried all three one at a time and right now the original is back in
    > the system alone.


    In slot 0? Slot 1 alone won't work.

    >>         Did you use the special (green matching the color of the ring on
    >> the CPU screws) torque wrench for removing, and especially for
    >> installing the CPUs?  This is typically stored in a clip in the
    >> compartment where the DVD-ROM drive is mounted.  Look for dayglo green.

    >
    > I have the dayglo green torque wrench, which I used to remove and
    > install each CPU. Heard click at the end to indicate properly seated.


    I specified that because of someone who was selling a SB-2000 on
    eBay who said that he could not check whether the CPUs were 900 MHz or
    1200 MHz because they needed a special wrench -- and his photos of the
    system open showed the wrench plainly visible, so I don't assume that
    anyone knows where it is until they say so. :)

    O.K. I usually go back after the first click on each side to
    get a couple of more clicks, just in case there is a little more motion
    available. You can't over-torque it this way.

    > The first time I did this the power was off but the power cord was
    > still connected to the box. I am fearing the worst with that fact.


    Hmm ... I'm pretty sure that I have changed a CPU with power on,
    even though I should not. Everything survived.

    But this *may* be a function of which end of the connector lifted
    clear first. You may need a new system board.

    The thing which is
    proably most sensitive is the RSC (Remote System Control) card which you
    will only find in a Sun Fire 280R (uses the same CPUs and system board,
    but is a rack mount server, and the RSC card allows "LOM" (Lights Out
    Management) -- that is you can reboot the system remotely with an
    ethernet connected to the RSC card. This gets power full time -- even
    when the system is off so it *can* control the system through reboot.
    (And the 280R has dual hot-swap power supplies, so you have *two* power
    cords to unplug at once.) The RSC card plugs into the second UPA
    framebuffer slot -- and there is no way to use a UPA framebuffer in the
    Sun Fire 280R -- just PCI-based framebuffers. The RPC card has a PCMCIA
    modem card installed in a socket and connected to a jack in the back.
    And it has a rechargeable battery to keep its settings through a certain
    amount of power loss.

    [ ... ]

    > No, I have the dayglo torque wrench as stated.


    Good.

    [ ... ]

    >>         Also -- poorly seated memory modules can prevent booting.
    >>

    >
    > Checked that.


    Good!

    >>         And -- I had a system board (motherboard) which had been damaged
    >> by slightly bent pins on one CPU resulting in a board which could boot


    [ ... ]

    > I checked that based upon your recommendation and found nothing that
    > looked damaged or bent.


    Good.

    [ ... ]

    > I'm certain that I have 900 Mhz US-III Cu CPUs. Given that I am
    > fearing the worst, namely that I inadvertently damaged something else
    > that prevents the system from booting.
    >
    > More about the boot process. When I push the power button on the SB
    > 2000 the front light comes on, the disk drives comes on and I hear the
    > monitor click but no memory beep. The system just hums and nothing
    > ever comes on the monitor screen. I am using a KVM switch scenario
    > with a PC. Perhaps I should use each I/O device stand-alone, but I
    > don;t see how that can be a problem. Maybe it is.
    >
    > Is there anyway I can test the system board or check for a blown fuse,
    > bad battery, something beyond what I am now doing?


    When trying to troubleshoot a system -- bring it down to the
    absolute minimum, and if that works, start adding things one at a time.
    This means in this case you want:

    One CPU in slot 0

    Memory DIMMs in every other memory slot starting with the one
    closest to the CPUs. (This is bank 0 of RAM.) Before you plug them in,
    spread them all out (on an anti-static surface) and check the barcode
    numbers. These are on a label which starts "501", and goes on for some
    number of digits. The first four after the 501 count. The rest make up
    the serial number of the DIMM (or other part). I've discovered that
    when I accidentally mix say the 512 MB and the 256 MB ones in a single
    bank, they are all treated as being 256 MB ones -- though that might be
    a function of what size was in the first slot checked, and it might have
    complained bitterly if the larger one was seen first. Some mixes may
    keep it from booting.

    Anyway -- one CPU, half load of memory, no keyboard, no
    framebuffer, no other PCI cards, no disks (internal or external) other
    than the DVD-ROM and floppy if you have them.

    Then plug a crossover cable between ttya on the system giving
    problems and a tty port on another system -- or a serial ASCII terminal,
    set to 9600 baud 8 data bits, 1 stop bit. The crossover is pin 2 on
    one end to pin 3 on the other and vise versa -- plus a straight through
    wire from pin 7 to pin 7. This should be enough. Then use the terminal
    (or the other system through tip(1)) to watch the serial port. It may
    take a minute or so to go through the POST, and in the absence of both a
    keyboard and a framebuffer (actually, the keyboard alone is enough) it
    will switch to ttya as the console, and will start feeding POST data to
    it -- even data which you never see otherwise, because the monitor and
    keyboard are not yet alive.

    Shortly before you would normally get the keyboard and monitor
    enabled, you should see the LED in the power button flashing a few
    times. If necessary, you can hit the button during this time one quick
    push, wait a full second, then another quick push which should reset the
    environment variables to the default values. Note that they will reset
    to whatever they were next boot -- unless you type "set-defaults" to the
    "ok" prompt.

    Once you get to the "ok" prompt, type "printenv" and get the
    list of parameters. The ones which you really are interested in are:

    ======================================================================
    diag-level=min
    diag-switch?=false
    ======================================================================

    type:

    setenv diag-level max
    setenv diag-switch? true
    reset-all

    and you will now be in for an apparently interminable set of
    diagnostics. Best to view them through tip, so you can scroll the
    window back to read it all -- or capture it in a file. Mostly, it will
    be puzzling lists of things being checked -- but all you need to do is
    to look for "error" or "fail" in that flow of text.

    Once you have that run, be sure to reset the first two to:

    ======================================================================
    diag-level=min
    diag-switch?=false
    ======================================================================

    or you will have the interminable test run every time you reboot. It
    takes perhaps a half hour with full memory and both CPUs installed.

    While you are pulling cards out of the system, note the barcode
    number on the system board. It is along the back edge where the PCI
    card brackets bolt to the chassis.

    You *may* need to find a replacement system board on eBay. The
    barcode number may be 5016230????, that is what mine is. Anyway, the
    various ones are interchangeable.

    A quick search on those finds (at present):

    150297795889 $90.00

    180293473616 $95.00

    both vendors are apparently shipping them removed from the steel frame
    which they should come with, so you will have to transfer the one you
    have from the other system board.

    The other two listed for the SB-2000 are:

    501-5938
    501-4143

    which have older versions of the SCIZO chip -- for whatever difference
    that makes. The 501-6230 is the latest listed.

    Or -- you could go the way I did to get two SB-2000 systems,
    with 2 GB of RAM, and (supposedly) a 900 MHz CPU. As it turned out,
    both systems had 1200 MHz CPUs, which have been combined into a single
    system. He's starting the auction at $99.99. The auction number is:

    260292699541

    The shipping cost will be higher, but you will get lots of spares.

    Oh yes -- if you *do* get the "ok" prompt, you might want to
    look at the value of "output-device=". If it is just "screen", fine.
    If it is something like "screen:r1440x900x76" then it is setting the
    framebuffer to a specific resolution -- which may or may not be the
    right one for your monitor.

    Anyway -- if you get the "ok" prompt, once you have passed all
    the tests -- and perhaps reset the "output-device" to the default value,
    you start adding things one at a time to see if things stop working.
    First, I think, would be the memory. Then the framebuffer. Power it up
    after each of these, so you know whether it stops working. Do you have
    a separate monitor and keyboard which you can use with this system,
    avoid the KVM until you have everything else tested, since it is the
    most unknown part of the equation.

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: <> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
     
    DoN. Nichols, Oct 1, 2008
    #4
  5. Guest

    On Sep 30, 10:43 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > On 2008-09-30, <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Sep 28, 12:47 am, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > >> On 2008-09-28, <> wrote:

    >
    > >> > Hi All,

    >
    > >> > I have a Sun Blade 2000 with a single 900 Mhz. I added another CPU
    > >> > module and now my system won't boot. I tried to go back to the
    > >> > original configuration and my system still will not boot.

    >

    [...]

    > >> > Any suggestions?

    >
    > >>         Have you removed the CPU in the '1' slot? (most distant from the
    > >> memory) and left the original in the '0' slot (closest to the memory)?

    >
    > > I tried two together, no luck, then
    > > I tried all three one at a time and right now the original is back in
    > > the system alone.

    >
    >         In slot 0?  Slot 1 alone won't work.


    Yep, I knew that.

    [...]

    >
    > > I have the dayglo green torque wrench, which I used to remove and
    > > install each CPU. Heard click at the end to indicate properly seated.

    >
    >         I specified that because of someone who was selling a SB-2000 on
    > eBay who said that he could not check whether the CPUs were 900 MHz or
    > 1200 MHz because they needed a special wrench -- and his photos of the
    > system open showed the wrench plainly visible, so I don't assume that
    > anyone knows where it is until they say so. :)
    >
    >         O.K.  I usually go back after the first click on each side to
    > get a couple of more clicks, just in case there is a little more motion
    > available.  You can't over-torque it this way.
    >
    > > The first time I did this the power was off but the power cord was
    > > still connected to the box. I am fearing the worst with that fact.

    >
    >         Hmm ... I'm pretty sure that I have changed a CPU with power on,
    > even though I should not.  Everything survived.
    >
    >         But this *may* be a function of which end of the connector lifted
    > clear first.  You may need a new system board.
    >


    Yes, this what I was afraid of.

    >                                                  The thing which is
    > proably most sensitive is the RSC (Remote System Control) card which you
    > will only find in a Sun Fire 280R (uses the same CPUs and system board,
    > but is a rack mount server, and the RSC card allows "LOM" (Lights Out
    > Management) -- that is you can reboot the system remotely with an
    > ethernet connected to the RSC card.  This gets power full time -- even
    > when the system is off so it *can* control the system through reboot.
    > (And the 280R has dual hot-swap power supplies, so you have *two* power
    > cords to unplug at once.)  The RSC card plugs into the second UPA
    > framebuffer slot -- and there is no way to use a UPA framebuffer in the
    > Sun Fire 280R -- just PCI-based framebuffers.  The RPC card has a PCMCIA
    > modem card installed in a socket and connected to a jack in the back.
    > And it has a rechargeable battery to keep its settings through a certain
    > amount of power loss.
    >
    >         [ ... ]
    >
    > > No, I have the dayglo torque wrench as stated.

    >
    >         Good.
    >
    >         [ ... ]
    >
    > >>         Also -- poorly seated memory modules can prevent booting.

    >
    > > Checked that.

    >
    >         Good!
    >
    > >>         And -- I had a system board (motherboard) which had been damaged
    > >> by slightly bent pins on one CPU resulting in a board which could boot

    >
    >         [ ... ]
    >
    > > I checked that based upon your recommendation and found nothing that
    > > looked damaged or bent.

    >
    >         Good.
    >
    >         [ ... ]
    >
    > > I'm certain that I have 900 Mhz US-III Cu CPUs. Given that I am
    > > fearing the worst, namely that I inadvertently damaged something else
    > > that prevents the system from booting.

    >
    > > More about the boot process. When I push the power button on the SB
    > > 2000 the front light comes on, the disk drives comes on and I hear the
    > > monitor click but no memory beep. The system just hums and nothing
    > > ever comes on the monitor screen. I am using a KVM switch scenario
    > > with a PC. Perhaps I should use each I/O device stand-alone, but I
    > > don;t see how that can be a problem. Maybe it is.

    >
    > > Is there anyway I can test the system board or check for a blown fuse,
    > > bad battery, something beyond what I am now doing?

    >
    >         When trying to troubleshoot a system -- bring it down to the
    > absolute minimum, and if that works, start adding things one at a time.
    > This means in this case you want:
    >
    >         One CPU in slot 0
    >
    >         Memory DIMMs in every other memory slot starting with theone
    > closest to the CPUs. (This is bank 0 of RAM.)  Before you plug them in,
    > spread them all out (on an anti-static surface) and check the barcode
    > numbers.  These are on a label which starts "501", and goes on for some
    > number of digits.  The first four after the 501 count.  The rest makeup
    > the serial number of the DIMM (or other part).  I've discovered that
    > when I accidentally mix say the 512 MB and the 256 MB ones in a single
    > bank, they are all treated as being 256 MB ones -- though that might be
    > a function of what size was in the first slot checked, and it might have
    > complained bitterly if the larger one was seen first.  Some mixes may
    > keep it from booting.
    >
    >         Anyway -- one CPU, half load of memory, no keyboard, no
    > framebuffer, no other PCI cards, no disks (internal or external) other
    > than the DVD-ROM and floppy if you have them.
    >
    >         Then plug a crossover cable between ttya on the system giving
    > problems and a tty port on another system -- or a serial ASCII terminal,
    > set to 9600 baud 8 data bits, 1 stop bit.  The crossover is pin 2 on
    > one end to pin 3 on the other and vise versa -- plus a straight through
    > wire from pin 7 to pin 7.  This should be enough.  


    Yes I have a null-modem.

    > Then use the terminal
    > (or the other system through tip(1)) to watch the serial port.  It may
    > take a minute or so to go through the POST, and in the absence of both a
    > keyboard and a framebuffer (actually, the keyboard alone is enough) it
    > will switch to ttya as the console, and will start feeding POST data to
    > it -- even data which you never see otherwise, because the monitor and
    > keyboard are not yet alive.


    Okay, I have an RS-232 terminal (Televideo 910) with a null modem on
    the cable.

    >         Shortly before you would normally get the keyboard and monitor
    > enabled, you should see the LED in the power button flashing a few
    > times.  If necessary, you can hit the button during this time one quick
    > push, wait a full second, then another quick push which should reset the
    > environment variables to the default values.  Note that they will reset
    > to whatever they were next boot -- unless you type "set-defaults" to the
    > "ok" prompt.


    This is how I originally installed Solaris 9 on the system.

    I assume the following happens if my system board is not dead, or can
    it be partially dead and still work with the serial port and RS-232
    terminal?

    >
    >         Once you get to the "ok" prompt, type "printenv" and get the
    > list of parameters.  The ones which you really are interested in are:
    >
    >  ======================================================================
    > diag-level=min
    > diag-switch?=false
    >  ======================================================================
    >
    > type:
    >
    >         setenv diag-level max
    >         setenv diag-switch? true
    >         reset-all
    >
    > and you will now be in for an apparently interminable set of
    > diagnostics.  Best to view them through tip, so you can scroll the
    > window back to read it all -- or capture it in a file.  Mostly, it will
    > be puzzling lists of things being checked -- but all you need to do is
    > to look for "error" or "fail" in that flow of text.
    >
    >         Once you have that run, be sure to reset the first two to:
    >
    >  ======================================================================
    > diag-level=min
    > diag-switch?=false
    >  ======================================================================
    >
    > or you will have the interminable test run every time you reboot.  It
    > takes perhaps a half hour with full memory and both CPUs installed.
    >
    >         While you are pulling cards out of the system, note the barcode
    > number on the system board.  It is along the back edge where the PCI
    > card brackets bolt to the chassis.
    >
    >         You *may* need to find a replacement system board on eBay..  The
    > barcode number may be 5016230????, that is what mine is.  Anyway, the
    > various ones are interchangeable.
    >
    >         A quick search on those finds (at present):
    >
    >         150297795889    $90.00
    >
    >         180293473616    $95.00
    >
    > both vendors are apparently shipping them removed from the steel frame
    > which they should come with, so you will have to transfer the one you
    > have from the other system board.
    >
    >         The other two listed for the SB-2000 are:
    >
    >         501-5938
    >         501-4143
    >
    > which have older versions of the SCIZO chip -- for whatever difference
    > that makes.  The 501-6230 is the latest listed.
    >
    >         Or -- you could go the way I did to get two SB-2000 systems,
    > with 2 GB of RAM, and (supposedly) a 900 MHz CPU.  As it turned out,
    > both systems had 1200 MHz CPUs, which have been combined into a single
    > system.  He's  starting the auction at $99.99.  The auction number is:
    >
    >         260292699541
    >
    > The shipping cost will be higher, but you will get lots of spares.
    >
    >         Oh yes -- if you *do* get the "ok" prompt, you might wantto
    > look at the value of "output-device=".  If it is just "screen", fine.
    > If it is something like "screen:r1440x900x76" then it is setting the
    > framebuffer to a specific resolution -- which may or may not be the
    > right one for your monitor.
    >


    Will do.

    >         Anyway -- if you get the "ok" prompt, once you have passed all
    > the tests -- and perhaps reset the "output-device" to the default value,
    > you start adding things one at a time to see if things stop working.
    > First, I think, would be the memory.  Then the framebuffer.  Power itup
    > after each of these, so you know whether it stops working.  Do you have
    > a separate monitor and keyboard which you can use with this system,
    > avoid the KVM until you have everything else tested, since it is the
    > most unknown part of the equation.


    Yes, I can hook the Sun system up without the PC and KVM switch. I
    might try this before I hook up a terminal but sort of what to know
    how to troubleshoot the system using a terminal anyway.

    >         Good Luck,
    >                 DoN.
    >


    Thanks.
     
    , Oct 7, 2008
    #5
  6. DoN. Nichols Guest

    On 2008-10-07, <> wrote:
    > On Sep 30, 10:43 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:


    [ ... ]

    >>         Hmm ... I'm pretty sure that I have changed a CPU with power on,
    >> even though I should not.  Everything survived.
    >>
    >>         But this *may* be a function of which end of the connector lifted
    >> clear first.  You may need a new system board.
    >>

    >
    > Yes, this what I was afraid of.


    I've made it a practice to unplug the power cord and loop it
    through the handle on the power supply when changing CPUs.

    [ ... ]

    >>         Shortly before you would normally get the keyboard and monitor
    >> enabled, you should see the LED in the power button flashing a few
    >> times.  If necessary, you can hit the button during this time one quick
    >> push, wait a full second, then another quick push which should reset the
    >> environment variables to the default values.  Note that they will reset
    >> to whatever they were next boot -- unless you type "set-defaults" to the
    >> "ok" prompt.

    >
    > This is how I originally installed Solaris 9 on the system.
    >
    > I assume the following happens if my system board is not dead, or can
    > it be partially dead and still work with the serial port and RS-232
    > terminal?


    It can be partially dead -- but dead from hot-swapping CPUs
    would probably keep this from showing anything.

    1) I've seen systems which would only work with a single CPU in
    slot 0 -- two CPUs and it locks up.

    2) I've seen systems which work fine until I plug in the
    external fibre channel -- at which point the internal disks
    won't work because the loop is incomplete.

    3) I've exchanged e-mail with a friend troubleshooting
    a system which turned out to have the on-board fibre channel
    drives not working.

    4) The same fellow later wound up with a system board which worked
    fine for the on-board fibre channel drives, but which could
    not see the internal SCSI DVD-ROM drive. The same drive, when
    installed in an external box and connected to the external fibre
    channel worked fine.

    So -- yes the system board can be only partially functional. I
    could see the PCI bus dead (so a PCI framebuffer would not work), or
    with the UPA bus dead (so the Creator-3D framebuffer would not work).

    Hmm ... I just pulled a SUN-PC board out of a Sun Blade 100
    which looks like something which was described in a thread here. On the
    main bracket it has (from the top)

    Audio input
    Audio output
    single USB
    Twisted Pair Ethernet
    VGA connector

    and on the secondary bracket:

    Parallel port (DB-25 F)
    Serial port (DE-9 M)

    Obviously, this would not work to drive the KVM until it booted fully
    and got access to a virtual disk with MS-DOS or Windows on it. But it
    *could* be installed in a SB-2000, and lead to confusion.

    [ ... ]

    >>         Or -- you could go the way I did to get two SB-2000 systems,
    >> with 2 GB of RAM, and (supposedly) a 900 MHz CPU.  As it turned out,
    >> both systems had 1200 MHz CPUs, which have been combined into a single
    >> system.  He's  starting the auction at $99.99.  The auction number is:
    >>
    >>         260292699541
    >>
    >> The shipping cost will be higher, but you will get lots of spares.


    That one closed at $99.99 with the winning bidder named
    "titin_fl".

    If that wasn't you, he's got another one up at the same starting
    price ($99.99) which closes on the 14th of October.

    >>         Oh yes -- if you *do* get the "ok" prompt, you might want to
    >> look at the value of "output-device=".  If it is just "screen", fine.
    >> If it is something like "screen:r1440x900x76" then it is setting the
    >> framebuffer to a specific resolution -- which may or may not be the
    >> right one for your monitor.
    >>

    >
    > Will do.
    >
    >>         Anyway -- if you get the "ok" prompt, once you have passed all
    >> the tests -- and perhaps reset the "output-device" to the default value,
    >> you start adding things one at a time to see if things stop working.
    >> First, I think, would be the memory.  Then the framebuffer.  Power it up
    >> after each of these, so you know whether it stops working.  Do you have
    >> a separate monitor and keyboard which you can use with this system,
    >> avoid the KVM until you have everything else tested, since it is the
    >> most unknown part of the equation.

    >
    > Yes, I can hook the Sun system up without the PC and KVM switch. I
    > might try this before I hook up a terminal but sort of what to know
    > how to troubleshoot the system using a terminal anyway.


    O.K. The basic rule of reduce the system under test to the
    minimum number of parts needed at first. :)

    Good Luck,
    Don.

    --
    Email: <> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
     
    DoN. Nichols, Oct 8, 2008
    #6
  7. Guest

    On Sep 30, 10:43 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    [...]
    >         Then plug a crossover cable between ttya on the system giving
    > problems and a tty port on another system -- or a serial ASCII terminal,
    > set to 9600 baud 8 data bits, 1 stop bit.  The crossover is pin 2 on
    > one end to pin 3 on the other and vise versa -- plus a straight through
    > wire from pin 7 to pin 7.  This should be enough.  Then use the terminal
    > (or the other system through tip(1)) to watch the serial port.  It may
    > take a minute or so to go through the POST, and in the absence of both a
    > keyboard and a framebuffer (actually, the keyboard alone is enough) it
    > will switch to ttya as the console, and will start feeding POST data to
    > it -- even data which you never see otherwise, because the monitor and
    > keyboard are not yet alive.
    >


    Got out my old Televideo 910 and fired it up at 9600 baud, 8 data bits
    and one stop bit. Found a null modem 25-pin DB -25.

    >         Shortly before you would normally get the keyboard and monitor
    > enabled, you should see the LED in the power button flashing a few
    > times.  If necessary, you can hit the button during this time one quick
    > push, wait a full second, then another quick push which should reset the
    > environment variables to the default values.  Note that they will reset
    > to whatever they were next boot -- unless you type "set-defaults" to the
    > "ok" prompt.
    >
    >         Once you get to the "ok" prompt, type "printenv" and get the
    > list of parameters.  The ones which you really are interested in are:
    >
    >  ======================================================================
    > diag-level=min
    > diag-switch?=false
    >  ======================================================================
    >
    > type:
    >
    >         setenv diag-level max


    system responded with "diag-level = min" - as if to defy my
    command!

    >         setenv diag-switch? true


    system responded with "diag-switch? = false" - same comment as the
    one above

    >         reset-all


    system responded with "Fast Data Access MMU Miss"

    I looked this up on the internet to find that "Fast Data Access MMU
    Miss" is quite notorious. I read several different suggestions and
    responses to others asking about it, but I fear that the worst is
    true. Need a new motherboard. I'd love to hear otherwise.

    >
    > and you will now be in for an apparently interminable set of
    > diagnostics.  Best to view them through tip, so you can scroll the
    > window back to read it all -- or capture it in a file.  Mostly, it will
    > be puzzling lists of things being checked -- but all you need to do is
    > to look for "error" or "fail" in that flow of text.


    I never got to this point due to the above error.

    Any suggestions at this point are welcome. If I have to bite the
    bullet and get a new system board, then so be it. Again, I'd love to
    hear otherwise.

    I will say that it has been sort of fun using the serial A port for
    debugging even though the system doesn't appear to be able to do much.
    Once fixed I plan to get a in-depth understaning about the POST via
    the serial port and the whole diagnostic process. But until then I
    need to fix the system.

    Thanks again for your help.

    Eric

    P.S. I was browsing the older alt.folklore.computers posts for
    Southwest Technical Products (SWTPC) and Smoke Signal Broadcasting
    (SSB) and saw that you and I actually posted on that topic over a
    decade ago. I recently been play with my SWTPC and SSB and much of the
    stuff I have still works. Do you still have your system or any stuff
    related, etc.? - Sorry for the OT, just curious.
     
    , Oct 30, 2008
    #7
  8. DoN. Nichols Guest

    On 2008-10-30, <> wrote:
    > On Sep 30, 10:43 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > [...]
    >>         Then plug a crossover cable between ttya on the system giving
    >> problems and a tty port on another system -- or a serial ASCII terminal,


    [ ... ]

    > Got out my old Televideo 910 and fired it up at 9600 baud, 8 data bits
    > and one stop bit. Found a null modem 25-pin DB -25.


    Good!

    >>         Shortly before you would normally get the keyboard and monitor
    >> enabled, you should see the LED in the power button flashing a few
    >> times.  If necessary, you can hit the button during this time one quick
    >> push, wait a full second, then another quick push which should reset the
    >> environment variables to the default values.  Note that they will reset
    >> to whatever they were next boot -- unless you type "set-defaults" to the
    >> "ok" prompt.
    >>
    >>         Once you get to the "ok" prompt, type "printenv" and get the
    >> list of parameters.  The ones which you really are interested in are:
    >>
    >>  ======================================================================
    >> diag-level=min
    >> diag-switch?=false
    >>  ======================================================================
    >>
    >> type:
    >>
    >>         setenv diag-level max

    >
    > system responded with "diag-level = min" - as if to defy my
    > command!
    >
    >>         setenv diag-switch? true

    >
    > system responded with "diag-switch? = false" - same comment as the
    > one above


    Hmm ... have you checked the coin cell near the "UPA Graphics
    slot 0". Do you have a copy of the drawing of the system board? If
    not, go to:

    <http://www.sunshack.org/data/sh/2.1.8/infoserver.central/data/syshbk/index.html>

    Click on "Systems: "

    Scroll down to "EOL systems" and find (and click on) "Sun Blade 2000 (A29)"

    Click on "Full Components List" in the "Information Areas"
    section.

    Scroll down to just above the exploded system view, and click on
    one of the four boards there -- probably 501-6230 for a starter -- or
    look for the barcode label along the edge where the PCI card brackets
    go, which should be one of the four listed there). Actually -- they all
    seem to lead to the same page. Print out that page, and in particular
    the drawing of the system board.

    Anyway -- that coin cell (A CR1362) should measure 3V. Also,
    make sure that the IDPROM next to it is fully seated.

    Those may be what is preventing your setting the environment
    variables. (To be honest, I've never seen that happen before.)

    Also -- check the listing of jumpers, and make sure that all are
    set as the default says they should be.

    Hmm ... I wonder whether someone was trying to upgrade the flash
    image of the OBP and POST and interrupted it part way through?

    >>         reset-all

    >
    > system responded with "Fast Data Access MMU Miss"


    Hmm ... MMU -- I wonder whether that is in the system board, or
    the CPU boards? It has been a while -- are both the CPU set with the
    same barcode version? If not, are they at least all marked "USIII-Cu"
    or both *not* marked such (stick-on labels on the plastic panel on each
    CPU). The system is supposed to not be happy with a mix of Cu and
    non-Cu CPU modules.

    > I looked this up on the internet to find that "Fast Data Access MMU
    > Miss" is quite notorious. I read several different suggestions and
    > responses to others asking about it, but I fear that the worst is
    > true. Need a new motherboard. I'd love to hear otherwise.


    Check out the coin cell and the IDPROM seating as I mentioned
    above -- just in case.

    Search for

    (501-4143, 501-5938, 501-6230, 501-6560, 501-6768) -714-501-6768

    on eBay. (The last part starting with the '-' eliminates someone who
    has a lot of auctions for auto parts, and has his phone number in there.
    It added about 55 hits to what was otherwise only five hits.

    The most affordable one comes with a compete system wrapped
    around it -- with 750 MHz CPUs -- 350113254924 -- $74.99 "buy-it-now".
    The shipping cost almost doubles the cost. :)

    The first hit -- 150297795889 -- $90.00 is more affordable with
    only $15.00 for shipping.

    Dropping down into the "Store" offerings, the first one whose
    photos show that it is being shipped as it *should* be -- with the metal
    frame on the underside -- is this one: 380075793026 at $150.00 plus
    $25.00 shipping.

    The difference is that with the bracket, you only have to remove
    three screws from the back panel, slide the board and bracket towards
    the front, and lift it out (of course after unplugging a bunch of
    cables. :)

    Without the bracket, you have to do that, then unscrew about ten
    or twelve screws, remove the old board from the bracket, place the new
    one on there, replace the ten or twelve screws, and then re-install in
    the system.

    And the bracket keeps the board supported during shipping, so it
    is less likely to suffer from flexure.

    >> and you will now be in for an apparently interminable set of
    >> diagnostics.  Best to view them through tip, so you can scroll the
    >> window back to read it all -- or capture it in a file.  Mostly, it will
    >> be puzzling lists of things being checked -- but all you need to do is
    >> to look for "error" or "fail" in that flow of text.

    >
    > I never got to this point due to the above error.


    Try the coin cell and the IDPROM -- if not, off to eBay for a
    replacement system board. I've had to replace a couple -- one which
    would not work with a second CPU module installed, the other which would
    not talk to external FC-AL devices -- just internal.

    > Any suggestions at this point are welcome. If I have to bite the
    > bullet and get a new system board, then so be it. Again, I'd love to
    > hear otherwise.


    Well ... "new" system board -- no. "Used" system board is a lot
    more affordable.

    But as suggested above -- check the coin cell and the IDPROM
    seating first.

    > I will say that it has been sort of fun using the serial A port for
    > debugging even though the system doesn't appear to be able to do much.
    > Once fixed I plan to get a in-depth understaning about the POST via
    > the serial port and the whole diagnostic process. But until then I
    > need to fix the system.


    Plan to download a full document about your version of the OBP
    to learn all the commands available -- and what they do.

    > Thanks again for your help.


    You're welcome.

    [ ... ]

    > P.S. I was browsing the older alt.folklore.computers posts for
    > Southwest Technical Products (SWTPC) and Smoke Signal Broadcasting
    > (SSB) and saw that you and I actually posted on that topic over a
    > decade ago. I recently been play with my SWTPC and SSB and much of the
    > stuff I have still works. Do you still have your system or any stuff
    > related, etc.? - Sorry for the OT, just curious.


    I still have it -- but it has not been run for quite a while
    now. There were two SWTPs -- one the 6800, which wound up eventually
    with a wire-wrapped CPU board to split the CPU clock from the baud rate
    clocks, so I could run a 68B00 at the full 2.0 MHz. The other was a
    SWTP 6809, in which I shared both SSB's DOS-69, and Microware's OS-9, my
    introduction to a unix-like OS. I wound up wire-wrapping a SASI
    (predecessor to SCSI) interface to hang 25 MB disks on the system. I
    started with IMI 5.6 MB disks with something sort of like SASI, but
    different connectors, etc. I wound up using those disks on the OS-9
    system, because without subdirectories, even 5.6 MB made for an
    amazingly cluttered directory on a 6.3 all upper case name format
    filesystem. :)

    The 6809 system had a front-panel switch to select between SSB
    and OS-9 boot EPROMs. (The SSB one, of course, also had the system
    monitor.

    Enjoy,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: <> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
     
    DoN. Nichols, Oct 31, 2008
    #8
  9. Guest

    On Oct 30, 7:13 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > On 2008-10-30, <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Sep 30, 10:43 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > > [...]
    > >>         Then plug a crossover cable between ttya on the systemgiving
    > >> problems and a tty port on another system -- or a serial ASCII terminal,

    >
    >         [ ... ]
    >
    > > Got out my old Televideo 910 and fired it up at 9600 baud, 8 data bits
    > > and one stop bit. Found a null modem 25-pin DB -25.

    >
    >         Good!
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >>         Shortly before you would normally get the keyboard andmonitor
    > >> enabled, you should see the LED in the power button flashing a few
    > >> times.  If necessary, you can hit the button during this time one quick
    > >> push, wait a full second, then another quick push which should reset the
    > >> environment variables to the default values.  Note that they will reset
    > >> to whatever they were next boot -- unless you type "set-defaults" to the
    > >> "ok" prompt.

    >
    > >>         Once you get to the "ok" prompt, type "printenv" and get the
    > >> list of parameters.  The ones which you really are interested in are:

    >
    > >>  ======================================================================
    > >> diag-level=min
    > >> diag-switch?=false
    > >>  ======================================================================

    >
    > >> type:

    >
    > >>         setenv diag-level max

    >
    > > system responded with "diag-level = min"           - as if to defy my
    > > command!

    >
    > >>         setenv diag-switch? true

    >
    > > system responded with "diag-switch? = false"    - same comment asthe
    > > one above

    >
    >         Hmm ... have you checked the coin cell near the "UPA Graphics
    > slot 0".  Do you have a copy of the drawing of the system board?  If



    Battery is good.

    > not, go to:
    >
    > <http://www.sunshack.org/data/sh/2.1.8/infoserver.central/data/syshbk/...>
    >
    >         Click on "Systems: "
    >
    >         Scroll down to "EOL systems" and find (and click on) "SunBlade 2000 (A29)"
    >
    >         Click on "Full Components List" in the "Information Areas"
    > section.
    >
    >         Scroll down to just above the exploded system view, and click on
    > one of the four boards there -- probably 501-6230 for a starter -- or
    > look for the barcode label along the edge where the PCI card brackets
    > go, which should be one of the four listed there).  Actually -- they all
    > seem to lead to the same page.  Print out that page, and in particular
    > the drawing of the system board.
    >
    >         Anyway -- that coin cell (A CR1362) should measure 3V.  Also,
    > make sure that the IDPROM next to it is fully seated.
    >
    >         Those may be what is preventing your setting the environment
    > variables.  (To be honest, I've never seen that happen before.)
    >
    >         Also -- check the listing of jumpers, and make sure that all are
    > set as the default says they should be.
    >
    >         Hmm ... I wonder whether someone was trying to upgrade the flash
    > image of the OBP and POST and interrupted it part way through?
    >
    > >>         reset-all

    >
    > > system responded with "Fast Data Access MMU Miss"

    >
    >         Hmm ... MMU -- I wonder whether that is in the system board, or
    > the CPU boards?  It has been a while -- are both the CPU set with the
    > same barcode version?  If not, are they at least all marked "USIII-Cu"
    > or both *not* marked such (stick-on labels on the plastic panel on each
    > CPU).  The system is supposed to not be happy with a mix of Cu and
    > non-Cu CPU modules.
    >


    All are marked USIII-Cu. Are there different versions of USIII-CU?
    Ones that work and ones that don't work?!

    I couldn't get the two that I bought to even POST. I wonder if they or
    one of them broke something?

    > > I looked this up on the internet to find that "Fast Data Access MMU
    > > Miss" is quite notorious. I read several different suggestions and
    > > responses to others asking about it, but I fear that the worst is
    > > true. Need a new motherboard. I'd love to hear otherwise.

    >
    >         Check out the coin cell and the IDPROM seating as I mentioned
    > above -- just in case.


    Done. I don't think either is an issue.

    >         Search for
    >
    >         (501-4143, 501-5938, 501-6230, 501-6560, 501-6768) -714-501-6768
    >
    > on eBay.  (The last part starting with the '-' eliminates someone who
    > has a lot of auctions for auto parts, and has his phone number in there.
    > It added about 55 hits to what was otherwise only five hits.



    I broke down and bought a SB 2000 parts box- item 320313744310. I'm
    hoping this will fix my problem and then I'll eBay what I don't use
    for a similar price.

    >
    >         The most affordable one comes with a compete system wrapped
    > around it -- with 750 MHz CPUs -- 350113254924 -- $74.99 "buy-it-now".
    > The shipping cost almost doubles the cost.  :)
    >
    >         The first hit -- 150297795889 -- $90.00 is more affordable with
    > only $15.00 for shipping.
    >
    >         Dropping down into the "Store" offerings, the first one whose
    > photos show that it is being shipped as it *should* be -- with the metal
    > frame on the underside -- is this one: 380075793026 at $150.00 plus
    > $25.00 shipping.
    >
    >         The difference is that with the bracket, you only have toremove
    > three screws from the back panel, slide the board and bracket towards
    > the front, and lift it out (of course after unplugging a bunch of
    > cables. :)
    >
    >         Without the bracket, you have to do that, then unscrew about ten
    > or twelve screws, remove the old board from the bracket, place the new
    > one on there, replace the ten or twelve screws, and then re-install in
    > the system.
    >
    >         And the bracket keeps the board supported during shipping, so it
    > is less likely to suffer from flexure.
    >
    > >> and you will now be in for an apparently interminable set of
    > >> diagnostics.  Best to view them through tip, so you can scroll the
    > >> window back to read it all -- or capture it in a file.  Mostly, it will
    > >> be puzzling lists of things being checked -- but all you need to do is
    > >> to look for "error" or "fail" in that flow of text.

    >
    > > I never got to this point due to the above error.

    >
    >         Try the coin cell and the IDPROM -- if not, off to eBay for a
    > replacement system board.  I've had to replace a couple -- one which
    > would not work with a second CPU module installed, the other which would
    > not talk to external FC-AL devices -- just internal.
    >


    Yep, went to eBay.

    > > Any suggestions at this point are welcome. If I have to bite the
    > > bullet and get a new system board, then so be it. Again, I'd love to
    > > hear otherwise.

    >
    >         Well ... "new" system board -- no.  "Used" system boardis a lot
    > more affordable.
    >
    >         But as suggested above -- check the coin cell and the IDPROM
    > seating first.
    >
    > > I will say that it has been sort of fun using the serial A port for
    > > debugging even though the system doesn't appear to be able to do much.
    > > Once fixed I plan to get a in-depth understaning about the POST via
    > > the serial port and the whole diagnostic process. But until then I
    > > need to fix the system.

    >
    >         Plan to download a full document about your version of the OBP
    > to learn all the commands available -- and what they do.
    >
    > > Thanks again for your help.

    >
    >         You're welcome.
    >
    >         [ ... ]
    >
    > > P.S. I was browsing the older alt.folklore.computers posts for
    > > Southwest Technical Products (SWTPC) and Smoke Signal Broadcasting
    > > (SSB) and saw that you and I actually posted on that topic over a
    > > decade ago. I recently been play with my SWTPC and SSB and much of the
    > > stuff I have still works. Do you still have your system or any stuff
    > > related, etc.? - Sorry for the OT, just curious.

    >
    >         I still have it -- but it has not been run for quite a while
    > now.  There were two SWTPs -- one the 6800, which wound up eventually
    > with a wire-wrapped CPU board to split the CPU clock from the baud rate
    > clocks, so I could run a 68B00 at the full 2.0 MHz.  The other was a
    > SWTP 6809, in which I shared both SSB's DOS-69, and Microware's OS-9, my
    > introduction to a unix-like OS.  I wound up wire-wrapping a SASI
    > (predecessor to SCSI) interface to hang 25 MB disks on the system.  I
    > started with IMI 5.6 MB disks with something sort of like SASI, but
    > different connectors, etc.  I wound up using those disks on the OS-9
    > system, because without subdirectories, even 5.6 MB made for an
    > amazingly cluttered directory on a 6.3 all upper case name format
    > filesystem. :)
    >


    Sounds interesting. I'd like to talk to you more about these systems
    as I started a vintage computer club (3 of us!) that meet once a week.
    Lots of fun! The SWTPC/SSB systems that I have were the first we
    played with.

    >         The 6809 system had a front-panel switch to select between SSB
    > and OS-9 boot EPROMs.  (The SSB one, of course, also had the system
    > monitor.
    >
    >         Enjoy,
    >                 DoN.
    >
    > --
    >  Email:   <>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    >         (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    >            --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -
     
    , Nov 5, 2008
    #9
  10. DoN. Nichols Guest

    On 2008-11-05, <> wrote:
    > On Oct 30, 7:13 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    >> On 2008-10-30, <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Sep 30, 10:43 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:


    [ ... ]

    >> >>         Once you get to the "ok" prompt, type "printenv" and get the
    >> >> list of parameters.  The ones which you really are interested in are:

    >>
    >> >>  ======================================================================
    >> >> diag-level=min
    >> >> diag-switch?=false
    >> >>  ======================================================================

    >>
    >> >> type:

    >>
    >> >>         setenv diag-level max

    >>
    >> > system responded with "diag-level = min"           - as if to defy my
    >> > command!

    >>
    >> >>         setenv diag-switch? true

    >>
    >> > system responded with "diag-switch? = false"    - same comment as the
    >> > one above

    >>
    >>         Hmm ... have you checked the coin cell near the "UPA Graphics
    >> slot 0".  Do you have a copy of the drawing of the system board?  If

    >
    >
    > Battery is good.


    O.K.

    [ ... ]

    >> >>         reset-all

    >>
    >> > system responded with "Fast Data Access MMU Miss"

    >>
    >>         Hmm ... MMU -- I wonder whether that is in the system board, or
    >> the CPU boards?  It has been a while -- are both the CPU set with the
    >> same barcode version?  If not, are they at least all marked "USIII-Cu"
    >> or both *not* marked such (stick-on labels on the plastic panel on each
    >> CPU).  The system is supposed to not be happy with a mix of Cu and
    >> non-Cu CPU modules.
    >>

    >
    > All are marked USIII-Cu. Are there different versions of USIII-CU?
    > Ones that work and ones that don't work?!


    Nope -- I've even mixed a 900 MHz USIII-Cu and a 1200 MHz
    USIII-Cu in the same system, and they both worked -- with measured speed
    jumping all over the place for subsequent runs of an ancient Dhrystone
    benchmark -- as I got different mix of time on the different CPUs.
    (Both are now 1200 MHz ones, so it is now stable.)

    > I couldn't get the two that I bought to even POST. I wonder if they or
    > one of them broke something?


    What happens with one CPU at a time in slot 0, with nothing in
    slot 1 either time? If they each work by themselves, then it is
    something in the circuitry which allows them to share the system between
    two CPUs.

    >> > I looked this up on the internet to find that "Fast Data Access MMU
    >> > Miss" is quite notorious. I read several different suggestions and
    >> > responses to others asking about it, but I fear that the worst is
    >> > true. Need a new motherboard. I'd love to hear otherwise.

    >>
    >>         Check out the coin cell and the IDPROM seating as I mentioned
    >> above -- just in case.

    >
    > Done. I don't think either is an issue.


    O.K. It was worth a try. (The IDPROM setting may be sensitive
    to the coin cell's presence.

    >>         Search for
    >>
    >>         (501-4143, 501-5938, 501-6230, 501-6560, 501-6768) -714-501-6768
    >>
    >> on eBay.  (The last part starting with the '-' eliminates someone who
    >> has a lot of auctions for auto parts, and has his phone number in there.
    >> It added about 55 hits to what was otherwise only five hits.

    >
    >
    > I broke down and bought a SB 2000 parts box- item 320313744310. I'm
    > hoping this will fix my problem and then I'll eBay what I don't use
    > for a similar price.


    Interest. No CPUs, no DIMMs, but an interesting mix of PCI
    boards. I wonder what is in there other than the framebuffer in slot 4.
    And it looks as though the torque wrench for the CPUs is missing as
    well. (Of course, it was not shipped with some of the later systems,
    and you were expected to get it with an additional or upgrade CPU
    instead.

    [ ... ]

    >> >> and you will now be in for an apparently interminable set of
    >> >> diagnostics.  Best to view them through tip, so you can scroll the
    >> >> window back to read it all -- or capture it in a file.  Mostly, it will
    >> >> be puzzling lists of things being checked -- but all you need to do is
    >> >> to look for "error" or "fail" in that flow of text.

    >>
    >> > I never got to this point due to the above error.

    >>
    >>         Try the coin cell and the IDPROM -- if not, off to eBay for a
    >> replacement system board.  I've had to replace a couple -- one which
    >> would not work with a second CPU module installed, the other which would
    >> not talk to external FC-AL devices -- just internal.
    >>

    >
    > Yep, went to eBay.


    O.K. Hope that does it for you. Given that it is in a SB-2000
    chassis, it is probably one of the later system boards.

    [ ... ]

    >> > P.S. I was browsing the older alt.folklore.computers posts for
    >> > Southwest Technical Products (SWTPC) and Smoke Signal Broadcasting
    >> > (SSB) and saw that you and I actually posted on that topic over a
    >> > decade ago. I recently been play with my SWTPC and SSB and much of the
    >> > stuff I have still works. Do you still have your system or any stuff
    >> > related, etc.? - Sorry for the OT, just curious.

    >>
    >>         I still have it -- but it has not been run for quite a while
    >> now.  There were two SWTPs -- one the 6800, which wound up eventually
    >> with a wire-wrapped CPU board to split the CPU clock from the baud rate
    >> clocks, so I could run a 68B00 at the full 2.0 MHz.  The other was a
    >> SWTP 6809, in which I shared both SSB's DOS-69, and Microware's OS-9, my
    >> introduction to a unix-like OS.  I wound up wire-wrapping a SASI
    >> (predecessor to SCSI) interface to hang 25 MB disks on the system.  I
    >> started with IMI 5.6 MB disks with something sort of like SASI, but
    >> different connectors, etc.  I wound up using those disks on the OS-9
    >> system, because without subdirectories, even 5.6 MB made for an
    >> amazingly cluttered directory on a 6.3 all upper case name format
    >> filesystem. :)
    >>

    >
    > Sounds interesting. I'd like to talk to you more about these systems
    > as I started a vintage computer club (3 of us!) that meet once a week.
    > Lots of fun! The SWTPC/SSB systems that I have were the first we
    > played with.


    O.K. You could try sending me direct e-mail -- but avoid
    attachments as I have a 30K limit on incoming e-mails to keep viruses
    out of a couple of small mailing lists which I host.

    Note that my first system was an Altair 680b, raised from a kit
    (6800 running at a mere 500 KHz because of the slow 1702 EPROMs, and the
    lack of a stretchable clock cycle in the clock which Altair installed. :)

    Enjoy,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: <> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
     
    DoN. Nichols, Nov 6, 2008
    #10
  11. Guest

    On Nov 5, 8:29 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > On 2008-11-05, <> wrote:
    >

    [...]

    New development with this problem. I found bent pins on both the CPUs
    I order a couple of months ago. Nightmare!

    Anyway, the new system is due to arrive any day now. I hope to at
    least have a working system and want to see about straightening pins
    on the CPUs and possibly bent pins on the system baord due to bad
    CPUs.

    I han't recognized that the pins weree bent until I took a 17x
    jewelers loupe to see the pins. Sure enough, bent pins...

    What is the best way to straighten the bent pins assuming they can be?

    >
    > > I broke down and bought a SB 2000 parts box- item 320313744310. I'm
    > > hoping this will fix my problem and then I'll eBay what I don't use
    > > for a similar price.

    >
    >         Interest.  No CPUs, no DIMMs, but an interesting mix ofPCI
    > boards.  I wonder what is in there other than the framebuffer in slot 4..
    > And it looks as though the torque wrench for the CPUs is missing as
    > well.  (Of course, it was not shipped with some of the later systems,
    > and you were expected to get it with an additional or upgrade CPU
    > instead.


    I am hoping to be able to get two systems running now that I know the
    problem with the orignal is bent pins.

    [...]

    > > Yep, went to eBay.

    >
    >         O.K.  Hope that does it for you.  Given that it is ina SB-2000
    > chassis, it is probably one of the later system boards.
    >
    >         [ ... ]
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >> > P.S. I was browsing the older alt.folklore.computers posts for
    > >> > Southwest Technical Products (SWTPC) and Smoke Signal Broadcasting
    > >> > (SSB) and saw that you and I actually posted on that topic over a
    > >> > decade ago. I recently been play with my SWTPC and SSB and much of the
    > >> > stuff I have still works. Do you still have your system or any stuff
    > >> > related, etc.? - Sorry for the OT, just curious.

    >
    > >>         I still have it -- but it has not been run for quite awhile
    > >> now.  There were two SWTPs -- one the 6800, which wound up eventually
    > >> with a wire-wrapped CPU board to split the CPU clock from the baud rate
    > >> clocks, so I could run a 68B00 at the full 2.0 MHz.  The other was a
    > >> SWTP 6809, in which I shared both SSB's DOS-69, and Microware's OS-9, my
    > >> introduction to a unix-like OS.  I wound up wire-wrapping a SASI
    > >> (predecessor to SCSI) interface to hang 25 MB disks on the system.  I
    > >> started with IMI 5.6 MB disks with something sort of like SASI, but
    > >> different connectors, etc.  I wound up using those disks on the OS-9
    > >> system, because without subdirectories, even 5.6 MB made for an
    > >> amazingly cluttered directory on a 6.3 all upper case name format
    > >> filesystem. :)

    >
    > > Sounds interesting. I'd like to talk to you more about these systems
    > > as I started a vintage computer club (3 of us!) that meet once a week.
    > > Lots of fun! The SWTPC/SSB systems that I have were the first we
    > > played with.

    >
    >         O.K.  You could try sending me direct e-mail -- but avoid
    > attachments as I have a 30K limit on incoming e-mails to keep viruses
    > out of a couple of small mailing lists which I host.
    >
    >         Note that my first system was an Altair 680b, raised froma kit
    > (6800 running at a mere 500 KHz because of the slow 1702 EPROMs, and the
    > lack of a stretchable clock cycle in the clock which Altair installed. :)
    >


    That's funny because the original SWTPC was running at 900 KHz to
    allow for the slow 1 microscond 2102 RAM chips.

    Eric
     
    , Nov 13, 2008
    #11
  12. DoN. Nichols Guest

    On 2008-11-13, <> wrote:
    > On Nov 5, 8:29 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    >> On 2008-11-05, <> wrote:
    >>

    > [...]
    >
    > New development with this problem. I found bent pins on both the CPUs
    > I order a couple of months ago. Nightmare!
    >
    > Anyway, the new system is due to arrive any day now. I hope to at
    > least have a working system and want to see about straightening pins
    > on the CPUs and possibly bent pins on the system baord due to bad
    > CPUs.
    >
    > I han't recognized that the pins weree bent until I took a 17x
    > jewelers loupe to see the pins. Sure enough, bent pins...
    >
    > What is the best way to straighten the bent pins assuming they can be?


    What I did which seemed to work was to put a knife blade
    parallel to the pins in from the side and extending beyond the connector
    and then moving it carefully to straighten the pin on the uphill side,
    then shifting to the other side and repeating, then to the next pin on
    both sides until I had them all pretty close to straight. It was enough
    to allow them to work in a good system board.

    I did nothing with the system board itself, because the circuits
    were already fried.

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: <> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
     
    DoN. Nichols, Nov 15, 2008
    #12
  13. Guest

    On Nov 14, 11:04 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > On 2008-11-13, <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Nov 5, 8:29 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:
    > >> On 2008-11-05, <> wrote:

    >
    > > [...]

    >
    > > New development with this problem. I found bent pins on both the CPUs
    > > I order a couple of months ago. Nightmare!

    >
    > > Anyway, the new system is due to arrive any day now. I hope to at
    > > least have a working system and want to see about straightening pins
    > > on the CPUs and possibly bent pins on the system baord due to bad
    > > CPUs.

    >
    > > I han't recognized that the pins weree bent until I took a 17x
    > > jewelers loupe to see the pins. Sure enough, bent pins...

    >
    > > What is the best way to straighten the bent pins assuming they can be?

    >
    >         What I did which seemed to work was to put a knife blade
    > parallel to the pins in from the side and extending beyond the connector
    > and then moving it carefully to straighten the pin on the uphill side,
    > then shifting to the other side and repeating, then to the next pin on
    > both sides until I had them all pretty close to straight.  It was enough
    > to allow them to work in a good system board.
    >
    >         I did nothing with the system board itself, because the circuits
    > were already fried.


    Well, the final verdict is that I managed to get the second system to
    work with the original CPU and another CPU I bought, giving me my dual
    CPU system. I do have another system (original) which needs CPU fans,
    a fixed CPU (I think I can do that), repair the damage to the original
    system board, memory, and a disk.

    That begs the question, what is the minimum I need to verify that I
    have a working CPU, and system board? Can it be with no memory? I
    think I'll rig up some sort of cooling system. Do I need a hard drive?
    Or can the second system be verified as "good" with no memory and no
    hard drive?

    Thanks again,
    Eric

    >
    >         Good Luck,
    >                 DoN.
    >
    > --
    >  Email:   <>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    >         (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    >            --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -
     
    , Dec 20, 2008
    #13
  14. DoN. Nichols Guest

    On 2008-12-20, <> wrote:
    > On Nov 14, 11:04 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <> wrote:


    [ ... ]

    >>         What I did which seemed to work was to put a knife blade
    >> parallel to the pins in from the side and extending beyond the connector
    >> and then moving it carefully to straighten the pin on the uphill side,
    >> then shifting to the other side and repeating, then to the next pin on
    >> both sides until I had them all pretty close to straight.  It was enough
    >> to allow them to work in a good system board.
    >>
    >>         I did nothing with the system board itself, because the circuits
    >> were already fried.

    >
    > Well, the final verdict is that I managed to get the second system to
    > work with the original CPU and another CPU I bought, giving me my dual
    > CPU system.


    Great!

    > I do have another system (original) which needs CPU fans,
    > a fixed CPU (I think I can do that), repair the damage to the original
    > system board, memory, and a disk.


    Of those, I think the "repair the damage to the original system
    board" will be the most difficult. Even with microscopic examination, I
    was never able to discover any signs of a zapped chip or trace on the
    board. It is now designated as a component donor, starting with the USB
    connector to replace the connector on another system board which had the
    partition between two USB connectors broken out when I laid the system
    on its side without unplugging the USB cables (assuming that they were
    long enough). At present, that system board is also retired, though it
    works well enough in general.

    > That begs the question, what is the minimum I need to verify that I
    > have a working CPU, and system board? Can it be with no memory?


    I think that you will need at least 4 DIMMs of some size memory.

    Currently on eBay, the 128 MB DIMMs in sets of four (512 MB
    total) are going for $90 - $96 per set (plus a few individual DIMMs for
    about $15.00 each -- and there are not four total available).

    Someone is selling a lot of 32 of the 501-5401 256 MB ones for
    $99.00 buy-it-now. Feedback looks pretty good, if you want DIMMs that
    small (2 GB total with eight of them in the system).

    But someone else (down in the "stores" area) is selling a set of
    four for $18,00

    The 512 MB ones seem to be not being offered today -- until you
    get to the "store" section, where someone is offering 4x512 MB DIMMs for
    $45.00 buy-it-now -- with free shipping.

    Silicon Salvage is offering a set of four 1 GB DIMMs for $79.99
    starting bid. These are not Sun barcoded, and identify strangely with
    prtfru, but they work well. I've got four of them in this systems
    (SB2K) and four in my wife's system (SB1K).

    So -- it depends on what you want to invest in the testing --
    and whether you could upgrade the other system by migrating the DIMMs to
    it after testing.

    > I
    > think I'll rig up some sort of cooling system. Do I need a hard drive?


    Not to test the CPUs. You do need one to test the built in
    Fibre Channel, however, which will be after you have verified that the
    CPUs work.

    > Or can the second system be verified as "good" with no memory and no
    > hard drive?


    It can be mostly (but not completely) tested without a hard
    drive (there is a lot of diagnostic software in the OpenBoot prom just
    waiting to be enabled by setting the OpenBoot environment variables.
    However, a *complete* test should include (assuming that at first you
    are using a serial terminal connected to TTYA instead of a keyboard,
    mouse, and monitor):

    1) Internal FC disks

    2) Internal DVD (SCSI) (if present).

    3) Internal floppy (if present)

    4) Internal tape drive (same internal SCSI) (if present)

    5) External wide SCSI port

    6) External FC connector. (Yes, I've had one system board which
    worked on the internal FC drives, not not on external ones.)

    7) USB (keyboard and mouse)

    8) FireWire (faster disks etc).

    9) Monitor (with some form of framebuffer to plug the monitor
    into).

    Good Luck,
    DoN.

    --
    Email: <> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
    --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
     
    DoN. Nichols, Dec 21, 2008
    #14
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Nikolaj Johansen
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    856
    Nikolaj Johansen
    Dec 12, 2003
  2. Martin Bochnig
    Replies:
    12
    Views:
    947
    Tim Bradshaw
    May 31, 2005
  3. DoN. Nichols

    Sun Fire 280R/ Sun Blade 2000 differences

    DoN. Nichols, Jul 27, 2007, in forum: Sun Hardware
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    327
    DoN. Nichols
    Jul 27, 2007
  4. Sun blade 2000 2nd CPU module

    , Mar 21, 2008, in forum: Sun Hardware
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    715
    Trinean
    Mar 22, 2008
  5. Dave

    Blade 1000 motherboard in Blade 2000.

    Dave, Oct 14, 2009, in forum: Sun Hardware
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    1,554
    DoN. Nichols
    Nov 1, 2009
Loading...

Share This Page