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32-bit RISC now cheaper than 8-bit

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by Anonymous Remailer (austria), Apr 14, 2012.

  1. The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to
    purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    it.

    Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
     
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  2. Jim Stewart

    Jim Stewart Guest

    Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
    > The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    > cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    > that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    > that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    > DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to
    > purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    > it.
    >
    > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?


    I've looked. I've thought.

    Until someone comes up with a development
    environment as user-friendly as AVR Studio,
    I'll stick with AVR.
     
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  3. Rich Webb

    Rich Webb Guest

    On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:12:17 +0200 (CEST), "Anonymous Remailer
    (austria)" <> wrote:

    >
    >The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    >cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    >that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    >that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    >DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to
    >purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    >it.


    Serial wire debug (SWD) is available on ST's STM32-series and TI's
    Stellaris as well. It's supported on (later) Segger J-Links, Rowley's
    CrossConnect and (using Rowley's adapter) the Amontec JTAGkey and the
    Olimex ARM OCD adapters. Probably a bunch of others (chips and
    programmers both) that I'm not aware of.

    >Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?


    I've pretty much been driving ST's CM3 chips, lately.

    --
    Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
     
  4. MK

    MK Guest

    On 14/04/2012 23:12, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
    > The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    > cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    > that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    > that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    > DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to
    > purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    > it.
    >
    > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
    >

    I've used NXP M0s both on their own and as a supervisor processor with
    an ST Cortex M4. (The supervisor runs all the time and wakes up the big
    processor when any real work has to be done - it also controls remote
    re-flashng of the main processor).

    From a C code point of view the M0 looks just the same (almost) as the
    M3 so they make a nice pair with the same tools being used on both.
    NXP's peripherals are a bit different from ST so you need to get used to
    that.

    We used the M0 on it's own to replace a PIC and the contrast in terms of
    speed of development was enormous. The PIC was cheaper but nothing like
    enough to make up the increased cost of development for a job with a max
    production run of 1000.

    The M0+ parts coming soon from Freescale look nice too.


    Michael Kellett
     
  5. Dave Nadler

    Dave Nadler Guest

    On Saturday, April 14, 2012 6:12:17 PM UTC-4, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
    > The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    > cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    > that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    > that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    > DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to
    > purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    > it.
    >
    > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?


    One LPC11C14 product in production, another on the way.
    Very Good Stuff. Super-inexpensive development tools
    of really high quality (Expresso boards w/SWD, CodeRed).
    Three thumbs up. Much less painful than AVR !

    Enjoy
    Best Regards, Dave
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "MK" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 14/04/2012 23:12, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
    >> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    >> cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    >> that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    >> that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    >> DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need

    to
    >> purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    >> it.
    >>
    >> Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
    >>

    > We used the M0 on it's own to replace a PIC and the contrast in terms of
    > speed of development was enormous. The PIC was cheaper but nothing like
    > enough to make up the increased cost of development for a job with a max
    > production run of 1000.
    >


    Why was the development so much more speedy / cheaper with Cortex M0?
    You didn't need to optimize the code so much because the thing has so
    much more speed?
     
  7. David Brown

    David Brown Guest

    On 15/04/12 17:29, Anonymous wrote:
    > "MK"<> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On 14/04/2012 23:12, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
    >>> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    >>> cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    >>> that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    >>> that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    >>> DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need

    > to
    >>> purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    >>> it.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
    >>>

    >> We used the M0 on it's own to replace a PIC and the contrast in terms of
    >> speed of development was enormous. The PIC was cheaper but nothing like
    >> enough to make up the increased cost of development for a job with a max
    >> production run of 1000.
    >>

    >
    > Why was the development so much more speedy / cheaper with Cortex M0?
    > You didn't need to optimize the code so much because the thing has so
    > much more speed?
    >


    When you use a small micro, you have to limit your coding style
    somewhat. Code that uses multiple pointers or indirect functions will
    compile on a decent C compiler even for brain-dead processors like the
    PIC (assuming 8-bit PICs here), but it will run like a lame sloth. When
    you have a processor with a single linear address space and solid
    pointer support, such as ARM, MIPS, PPC, m68K or msp430 (even though it
    is only 16-bit), you are much freer in the structures you can use in the
    program. If an array of structs is appropriate, use it. If callbacks
    are the best way to organise the code, use them. But on a PIC they
    would be hideously slow, so you find other ways to code your program.
     
  8. MK

    MK Guest

    On 15/04/2012 16:29, Anonymous wrote:
    > "MK"<> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On 14/04/2012 23:12, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote:
    >>> The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    >>> cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    >>> that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    >>> that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    >>> DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need

    > to
    >>> purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    >>> it.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
    >>>

    >> We used the M0 on it's own to replace a PIC and the contrast in terms of
    >> speed of development was enormous. The PIC was cheaper but nothing like
    >> enough to make up the increased cost of development for a job with a max
    >> production run of 1000.
    >>

    >
    > Why was the development so much more speedy / cheaper with Cortex M0?
    > You didn't need to optimize the code so much because the thing has so
    > much more speed?
    >


    We replaced a very tiny PIC with an LPC1111 and one of the real time
    savers was getting real general purpose timers with 32 bit registers.
    The other big advantage was being able to code entirely in C, and as
    others have mentioned, being able to use the full power of standard C
    rather than a small subset.

    Michael Kellett
     
  9. Jukka Marin

    Jukka Marin Guest

    On 2012-04-14, Anonymous Remailer (austria) <> wrote:
    > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?


    Did one project using LPC1114 over a year ago, had no problems with it. AVR
    is a big pain because of the separate memory spaces, M0 is just as good as
    the "big" ARM chips with 32-bit addresses etc. No more 8-bit mcu's!

    -jm
     
  10. scrts

    scrts Guest

    "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    >
    > The NXP LPC1110 starts at less than $1 for a 4KB flash part. That's
    > cheaper than an AVR in my experience! I'm not really sure if it's all
    > that more powerful but it's good enough for me. The thing I like is
    > that it also has a single I/O line debugging, just like AVR's
    > DebugWire, which isn't available on all parts and for which you need to
    > purchase ATMEL's programmer since no one else has (AFAIK) implemented
    > it.
    >
    > Anyone have any experience with Cortex-M0 yet?
    >


    We've moved to LPC11xx and LPC12xx too, however the 8KB SRAM is too small
    sometimes...
     
  11. Guest

    Just started working on an LPC1111 design. Done some STM32 and NXP ARM7 stuff in the past. Chose the '1111 because of low cost and 6 PWM outputs. As somebody else mentioned, the 32-bit timers make life quite a bit easier. Even ST's 16-bit timers with 16-bit prescalers are far nicer than AVR timers.

    I'm a fan of Rowley Crossworks and especially their tasking library. Certainly as good as or better than AVR Studio (but I admit I haven't looked at Studio 6).

    I'll still use an AVR if I need e.g. the high drive current or 5V operation, but at this point I look at low-end 32-bit parts first, and only look at 8-bit if I can't find a good match.
     
  12. linnix

    linnix Guest

    On Apr 18, 8:04 am, wrote:
    > Just started working on an LPC1111 design.  Done some STM32 and NXP ARM7 stuff in the past.  Chose the '1111 because of low cost and 6 PWM outputs.  As somebody else mentioned, the 32-bit timers make life quite a bit easier.  Even ST's 16-bit timers with 16-bit prescalers are far nicer than AVR timers.
    >
    > I'm a fan of Rowley Crossworks and especially their tasking library.  Certainly as good as or better than AVR Studio (but I admit I haven't lookedat Studio 6).
    >
    > I'll still use an AVR if I need e.g. the high drive current or 5V operation, but at this point I look at low-end 32-bit parts first, and only look at 8-bit if I can't find a good match.


    AVR still has the lowest cost of entry for USB: less than $2 for Hard
    USB (At90usb*2) and $1 for Soft USB (Atmega*8). Most ARMs with USB
    have everything else tag along, for higher cost. If someone comes out
    with Soft USB for ARM M0/M3, we would gladly license it. For now, the
    death of AVR is pre-mature.
     
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