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A21m power/boot problem -- what is it and how to fix it?

Discussion in 'IBM Thinkpad' started by Mr. Bart, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. Mr. Bart

    Mr. Bart Guest

    This is the oddest problem. I have an A21m that's been doing good service
    for years.

    Recently it started hanging up whenever it went into Standby. That is, it
    would go into Standby and then wouldn't come out. You had to hold the power
    button down 10 seconds to reset, then reboot, to get it to run.

    Then I set it not to go into standby when on main power and it went into
    Standby anyway! Or something liek standby, and wouldn't come out, as before.

    Then, yesterday, when it was turned on it hiccupped and the drive and power
    lights flickered in a cycling sequence for a few seconds, and it wouldn't
    boot at all. I checked the power cable, of course, and reseated the battery,
    but nothing would get it to boot.

    So I removed the HD and attached it as an external to another machine so I
    could copy the data off of it, then put it back in the A21m. Still no boot.
    So I set it aside with the power cable plugged in.

    Now, 24 hrs later, I started to look at it again, punched the power button
    and it booted fine! Still on main power. I put the PCMCIA 601b/g card back
    in and set up to my LAN, went online to a couple sites, and was just getting
    ready to start a clean install of Windows XP . . . when it blacked out on
    me!

    I tried it on battery alone and as before, the flashing of the HD light and
    other keyboard LEDs in sequence (all the other lights flash at same time),
    and a coughing sound which is the floppy trying to run. Then the only way to
    STOP the flashing light and the power to the floppy was to remove the
    battery.

    So far I've thought
    (a) it's probably not battery since I don't run the machine on the battery
    very often, and the main power cable is always plugged in.
    (b) I don't think it's the power CABLE itself, cause I shook the cable and
    it did not fire up the machine.
    (c) I wondered if it could be the transformer, but I don't have another IBM
    power supply to test with.
    (d) the CMOS hasn't ever been replaced, but I can't see how it would cause
    these symptoms.
    (e) it won't boot off a floppy or a CD either, so it's some system-wide
    problem, i'm guessing.

    Anyway, does any of this ring a bell with anyone out there? THis machine is
    an old favorite that is only used for email and minor web surfing, so is
    easily replaced, but I'd prefer to fix it, if I had a clue how.

    Many thanks,
     
    Mr. Bart, Jan 5, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Mr. Bart

    Ted Frater Guest

    Mr. Bart wrote:
    > This is the oddest problem. I have an A21m that's been doing good service
    > for years.
    >
    > Recently it started hanging up whenever it went into Standby. That is, it
    > would go into Standby and then wouldn't come out. You had to hold the power
    > button down 10 seconds to reset, then reboot, to get it to run.
    >
    > Then I set it not to go into standby when on main power and it went into
    > Standby anyway! Or something liek standby, and wouldn't come out, as before.
    >
    > Then, yesterday, when it was turned on it hiccupped and the drive and power
    > lights flickered in a cycling sequence for a few seconds, and it wouldn't
    > boot at all. I checked the power cable, of course, and reseated the battery,
    > but nothing would get it to boot.
    >
    > So I removed the HD and attached it as an external to another machine so I
    > could copy the data off of it, then put it back in the A21m. Still no boot.
    > So I set it aside with the power cable plugged in.
    >
    > Now, 24 hrs later, I started to look at it again, punched the power button
    > and it booted fine! Still on main power. I put the PCMCIA 601b/g card back
    > in and set up to my LAN, went online to a couple sites, and was just getting
    > ready to start a clean install of Windows XP . . . when it blacked out on
    > me!
    >
    > I tried it on battery alone and as before, the flashing of the HD light and
    > other keyboard LEDs in sequence (all the other lights flash at same time),
    > and a coughing sound which is the floppy trying to run. Then the only way to
    > STOP the flashing light and the power to the floppy was to remove the
    > battery.
    >
    > So far I've thought
    > (a) it's probably not battery since I don't run the machine on the battery
    > very often, and the main power cable is always plugged in.
    > (b) I don't think it's the power CABLE itself, cause I shook the cable and
    > it did not fire up the machine.
    > (c) I wondered if it could be the transformer, but I don't have another IBM
    > power supply to test with.
    > (d) the CMOS hasn't ever been replaced, but I can't see how it would cause
    > these symptoms.
    > (e) it won't boot off a floppy or a CD either, so it's some system-wide
    > problem, i'm guessing.
    >
    > Anyway, does any of this ring a bell with anyone out there? THis machine is
    > an old favorite that is only used for email and minor web surfing, so is
    > easily replaced, but I'd prefer to fix it, if I had a clue how.
    >
    > Many thanks,
    >
    >

    Try the following process of elimination.
    1. Use get or borrow a volt meter,
    2. plug in the psu to the wall socket, and check the output DC voltage
    then again say 20 mins later to ensure its still giving the right
    outputas per the label. also the plug internal connections and fuse are
    tight.
    3.If its ok then
    4. use the v meter to check the battery for voltage. you may need some
    slim strips of metal to make contavct with the recessed terminals.
    5.if all that looks ok then the problem will be in the laptop.
    6. My gess is its a thermally related poor contact in the processor area.
    Also then check and reseat the memory just in case its there where a
    high rsistance contact is. also purchase a new cmos battery whilt your
    getting everything together and fit that.
    As it seems to have progessively gotten worse. its likely to be an
    overheated contact thats become corroded. If its one of the microscopic
    ones on a major connector its probably terminal for that part.
    ..
    Now if youve never stripped down a laptop before its a tricky job. youll
    need to download and print outof IBM's website the maintenance manual.
    A lot of pages!! follow this exactly. A bit like a surgical operation!!
    youll need a large table cleaer of everything with a good white table
    cloth thereon. , and a good light .
    If your going to strip down to get to the processor area youll need to
    lay out in sequence all parts as you remove them inc the associated
    screws. Otherwise youll find youve bits left over on reassembly.
    7. youll need a pencil type glass fibre brush, some alcohol q tips
    tweezers and the right size pozidrive/ phillips screwdrivers.
    A daunting task.Also allow half a day at least for a job like this.
    no kids , no cats nor pets nor cups of drinks etc near you during the
    process.
    there points others might have suggestions I missed.
    Examine with a magnifying glass every connector/ contact or plug to
    check for overheating discolouration corrosion. Also before dismantling
    or removing anything look at it with your glass to dsee if you can see
    discolouration . which might indicate the problem area.
    Theres been a problem on desktops called chip grouth. thats a thermally
    related fault where the alternating heating and cooling causes plug in
    chips to slowly over time to climb out of their sockets. Not one ive
    encountered in laptops. But might be the case in yours.
    Ive cured!! several untraceable faults on other laptops by just
    stripping down cleaning all contacts and reassembly. Never found out
    what the problems were. However laptops and electronic gear in general
    dont like living in damp. or cold or humid enviroments, especially if
    you live near the sea. Its condensation moisture that causes the damage.
    And good luck.
    An A21p user and thinkpad enthusiast..
     
    Ted Frater, Jan 5, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Mr. Bart

    Mr. Bart Guest

    many thanks for this terrifying reply. will take it under advisement. on
    the www.thinkpads.com msg board these symptoms seem to be a relatively
    common issue with the A21 and A22. There are several threads there in which
    users describe more or less the same symptoms I've mentioned here, but none
    of the threads provides a clear resolution to the problem. Primary answers
    have been the CMOS battery and failure of the power management chips
    ADP3421 and the ADP3410.

    Another interesting thing is that if I leave the machine alone for 24 hours
    or so, then it will boot into windows as normally, but will only run
    normally for a few minutes--5 to 10 minutes--before going dark again.

    All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning it
    NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or downstairs.
    SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off. Mostly kid gloves.


    "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    news:j6PCd.50$...
    > Mr. Bart wrote:
    > > This is the oddest problem. I have an A21m that's been doing good

    service
    > > for years.
    > >
    > > Recently it started hanging up whenever it went into Standby. That is,

    it
    > > would go into Standby and then wouldn't come out. You had to hold the

    power
    > > button down 10 seconds to reset, then reboot, to get it to run.
    > >
    > > Then I set it not to go into standby when on main power and it went into
    > > Standby anyway! Or something liek standby, and wouldn't come out, as

    before.
    > >
    > > Then, yesterday, when it was turned on it hiccupped and the drive and

    power
    > > lights flickered in a cycling sequence for a few seconds, and it

    wouldn't
    > > boot at all. I checked the power cable, of course, and reseated the

    battery,
    > > but nothing would get it to boot.
    > >
    > > So I removed the HD and attached it as an external to another machine so

    I
    > > could copy the data off of it, then put it back in the A21m. Still no

    boot.
    > > So I set it aside with the power cable plugged in.
    > >
    > > Now, 24 hrs later, I started to look at it again, punched the power

    button
    > > and it booted fine! Still on main power. I put the PCMCIA 601b/g card

    back
    > > in and set up to my LAN, went online to a couple sites, and was just

    getting
    > > ready to start a clean install of Windows XP . . . when it blacked out

    on
    > > me!
    > >
    > > I tried it on battery alone and as before, the flashing of the HD light

    and
    > > other keyboard LEDs in sequence (all the other lights flash at same

    time),
    > > and a coughing sound which is the floppy trying to run. Then the only

    way to
    > > STOP the flashing light and the power to the floppy was to remove the
    > > battery.
    > >
    > > So far I've thought
    > > (a) it's probably not battery since I don't run the machine on the

    battery
    > > very often, and the main power cable is always plugged in.
    > > (b) I don't think it's the power CABLE itself, cause I shook the cable

    and
    > > it did not fire up the machine.
    > > (c) I wondered if it could be the transformer, but I don't have another

    IBM
    > > power supply to test with.
    > > (d) the CMOS hasn't ever been replaced, but I can't see how it would

    cause
    > > these symptoms.
    > > (e) it won't boot off a floppy or a CD either, so it's some system-wide
    > > problem, i'm guessing.
    > >
    > > Anyway, does any of this ring a bell with anyone out there? THis machine

    is
    > > an old favorite that is only used for email and minor web surfing, so is
    > > easily replaced, but I'd prefer to fix it, if I had a clue how.
    > >
    > > Many thanks,
    > >
    > >

    > Try the following process of elimination.
    > 1. Use get or borrow a volt meter,
    > 2. plug in the psu to the wall socket, and check the output DC voltage
    > then again say 20 mins later to ensure its still giving the right
    > outputas per the label. also the plug internal connections and fuse are
    > tight.
    > 3.If its ok then
    > 4. use the v meter to check the battery for voltage. you may need some
    > slim strips of metal to make contavct with the recessed terminals.
    > 5.if all that looks ok then the problem will be in the laptop.
    > 6. My gess is its a thermally related poor contact in the processor area.
    > Also then check and reseat the memory just in case its there where a
    > high rsistance contact is. also purchase a new cmos battery whilt your
    > getting everything together and fit that.
    > As it seems to have progessively gotten worse. its likely to be an
    > overheated contact thats become corroded. If its one of the microscopic
    > ones on a major connector its probably terminal for that part.
    > .
    > Now if youve never stripped down a laptop before its a tricky job. youll
    > need to download and print outof IBM's website the maintenance manual.
    > A lot of pages!! follow this exactly. A bit like a surgical operation!!
    > youll need a large table cleaer of everything with a good white table
    > cloth thereon. , and a good light .
    > If your going to strip down to get to the processor area youll need to
    > lay out in sequence all parts as you remove them inc the associated
    > screws. Otherwise youll find youve bits left over on reassembly.
    > 7. youll need a pencil type glass fibre brush, some alcohol q tips
    > tweezers and the right size pozidrive/ phillips screwdrivers.
    > A daunting task.Also allow half a day at least for a job like this.
    > no kids , no cats nor pets nor cups of drinks etc near you during the
    > process.
    > there points others might have suggestions I missed.
    > Examine with a magnifying glass every connector/ contact or plug to
    > check for overheating discolouration corrosion. Also before dismantling
    > or removing anything look at it with your glass to dsee if you can see
    > discolouration . which might indicate the problem area.
    > Theres been a problem on desktops called chip grouth. thats a thermally
    > related fault where the alternating heating and cooling causes plug in
    > chips to slowly over time to climb out of their sockets. Not one ive
    > encountered in laptops. But might be the case in yours.
    > Ive cured!! several untraceable faults on other laptops by just
    > stripping down cleaning all contacts and reassembly. Never found out
    > what the problems were. However laptops and electronic gear in general
    > dont like living in damp. or cold or humid enviroments, especially if
    > you live near the sea. Its condensation moisture that causes the damage.
    > And good luck.
    > An A21p user and thinkpad enthusiast..
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Mr. Bart, Jan 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Mr. Bart

    Ted Frater Guest

    Mr. Bart wrote:
    > many thanks for this terrifying reply. will take it under advisement. on
    > the www.thinkpads.com msg board these symptoms seem to be a relatively
    > common issue with the A21 and A22. There are several threads there in which
    > users describe more or less the same symptoms I've mentioned here, but none
    > of the threads provides a clear resolution to the problem. Primary answers
    > have been the CMOS battery and failure of the power management chips
    > ADP3421 and the ADP3410.
    >
    > Another interesting thing is that if I leave the machine alone for 24 hours
    > or so, then it will boot into windows as normally, but will only run
    > normally for a few minutes--5 to 10 minutes--before going dark again.
    >
    > All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning it
    > NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or downstairs.
    > SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off. Mostly kid gloves.
    >
    >
    > "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    > news:j6PCd.50$...
    >
    >>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>
    >>>This is the oddest problem. I have an A21m that's been doing good

    >
    > service
    >
    >>>for years.
    >>>
    >>>Recently it started hanging up whenever it went into Standby. That is,

    >
    > it
    >
    >>>would go into Standby and then wouldn't come out. You had to hold the

    >
    > power
    >
    >>>button down 10 seconds to reset, then reboot, to get it to run.
    >>>
    >>>Then I set it not to go into standby when on main power and it went into
    >>>Standby anyway! Or something liek standby, and wouldn't come out, as

    >
    > before.
    >
    >>>Then, yesterday, when it was turned on it hiccupped and the drive and

    >
    > power
    >
    >>>lights flickered in a cycling sequence for a few seconds, and it

    >
    > wouldn't
    >
    >>>boot at all. I checked the power cable, of course, and reseated the

    >
    > battery,
    >
    >>>but nothing would get it to boot.
    >>>
    >>>So I removed the HD and attached it as an external to another machine so

    >
    > I
    >
    >>>could copy the data off of it, then put it back in the A21m. Still no

    >
    > boot.
    >
    >>>So I set it aside with the power cable plugged in.
    >>>
    >>>Now, 24 hrs later, I started to look at it again, punched the power

    >
    > button
    >
    >>>and it booted fine! Still on main power. I put the PCMCIA 601b/g card

    >
    > back
    >
    >>>in and set up to my LAN, went online to a couple sites, and was just

    >
    > getting
    >
    >>>ready to start a clean install of Windows XP . . . when it blacked out

    >
    > on
    >
    >>>me!
    >>>
    >>>I tried it on battery alone and as before, the flashing of the HD light

    >
    > and
    >
    >>>other keyboard LEDs in sequence (all the other lights flash at same

    >
    > time),
    >
    >>>and a coughing sound which is the floppy trying to run. Then the only

    >
    > way to
    >
    >>>STOP the flashing light and the power to the floppy was to remove the
    >>>battery.
    >>>
    >>>So far I've thought
    >>>(a) it's probably not battery since I don't run the machine on the

    >
    > battery
    >
    >>>very often, and the main power cable is always plugged in.
    >>>(b) I don't think it's the power CABLE itself, cause I shook the cable

    >
    > and
    >
    >>>it did not fire up the machine.
    >>>(c) I wondered if it could be the transformer, but I don't have another

    >
    > IBM
    >
    >>>power supply to test with.
    >>>(d) the CMOS hasn't ever been replaced, but I can't see how it would

    >
    > cause
    >
    >>>these symptoms.
    >>>(e) it won't boot off a floppy or a CD either, so it's some system-wide
    >>>problem, i'm guessing.
    >>>
    >>>Anyway, does any of this ring a bell with anyone out there? THis machine

    >
    > is
    >
    >>>an old favorite that is only used for email and minor web surfing, so is
    >>>easily replaced, but I'd prefer to fix it, if I had a clue how.
    >>>
    >>>Many thanks,
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Try the following process of elimination.
    >>1. Use get or borrow a volt meter,
    >>2. plug in the psu to the wall socket, and check the output DC voltage
    >>then again say 20 mins later to ensure its still giving the right
    >>outputas per the label. also the plug internal connections and fuse are
    >>tight.
    >>3.If its ok then
    >>4. use the v meter to check the battery for voltage. you may need some
    >>slim strips of metal to make contavct with the recessed terminals.
    >>5.if all that looks ok then the problem will be in the laptop.
    >>6. My gess is its a thermally related poor contact in the processor area.
    >>Also then check and reseat the memory just in case its there where a
    >>high rsistance contact is. also purchase a new cmos battery whilt your
    >>getting everything together and fit that.
    >>As it seems to have progessively gotten worse. its likely to be an
    >>overheated contact thats become corroded. If its one of the microscopic
    >>ones on a major connector its probably terminal for that part.
    >>.
    >>Now if youve never stripped down a laptop before its a tricky job. youll
    >>need to download and print outof IBM's website the maintenance manual.
    >> A lot of pages!! follow this exactly. A bit like a surgical operation!!
    >>youll need a large table cleaer of everything with a good white table
    >>cloth thereon. , and a good light .
    >>If your going to strip down to get to the processor area youll need to
    >>lay out in sequence all parts as you remove them inc the associated
    >>screws. Otherwise youll find youve bits left over on reassembly.
    >>7. youll need a pencil type glass fibre brush, some alcohol q tips
    >>tweezers and the right size pozidrive/ phillips screwdrivers.
    >> A daunting task.Also allow half a day at least for a job like this.
    >>no kids , no cats nor pets nor cups of drinks etc near you during the
    >>process.
    >>there points others might have suggestions I missed.
    >>Examine with a magnifying glass every connector/ contact or plug to
    >>check for overheating discolouration corrosion. Also before dismantling
    >>or removing anything look at it with your glass to dsee if you can see
    >>discolouration . which might indicate the problem area.
    >>Theres been a problem on desktops called chip grouth. thats a thermally
    >>related fault where the alternating heating and cooling causes plug in
    >>chips to slowly over time to climb out of their sockets. Not one ive
    >>encountered in laptops. But might be the case in yours.
    >>Ive cured!! several untraceable faults on other laptops by just
    >>stripping down cleaning all contacts and reassembly. Never found out
    >>what the problems were. However laptops and electronic gear in general
    >>dont like living in damp. or cold or humid enviroments, especially if
    >>you live near the sea. Its condensation moisture that causes the damage.
    >>And good luck.
    >> An A21p user and thinkpad enthusiast..
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >

    If you decide to have a go!!
    lets us know how youve got on with it.
    If you brought it to me what I outlined is what id do. however im in
    the UK, and your across the water I guess.
    good luck.
     
    Ted Frater, Jan 5, 2005
    #4
  5. Mr. Bart

    JHEM Guest

    Mr. Bart wrote:
    >
    > All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning
    > it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    > downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.


    Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.

    Regards,

    James
     
    JHEM, Jan 5, 2005
    #5
  6. Mr. Bart

    Mr. Bart Guest

    hey james--

    have done this and have the same result. sorry, i should have specified
    previously. today i bought the CR2032 battery at Radio Shack, but of course
    IBM A21m has that special housing (shrink wrap etc) that somebody on
    thinkpads.com says he sliced open to replace the cmos battery.

    i may try that tonight. ted frater's process sounds daunting to me. i'm
    not sure i'm up to that much careful work.

    been trying to get some help (with some success) on www.thinkpads.com. My
    threads on this subject are here
    http://forum.thinkpads.com/search.php?mode=results

    cheers--


    "JHEM" <> wrote in message
    news:lOZCd.22287$fe5.8140@trndny06...
    > Mr. Bart wrote:
    > >
    > > All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning
    > > it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    > > downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.

    >
    > Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > James
    >
    >
     
    Mr. Bart, Jan 5, 2005
    #6
  7. Mr. Bart

    Ted Frater Guest

    Mr. Bart wrote:
    > hey james--
    >
    > have done this and have the same result. sorry, i should have specified
    > previously. today i bought the CR2032 battery at Radio Shack, but of course
    > IBM A21m has that special housing (shrink wrap etc) that somebody on
    > thinkpads.com says he sliced open to replace the cmos battery.
    >
    > i may try that tonight. ted frater's process sounds daunting to me. i'm
    > not sure i'm up to that much careful work.
    >
    > been trying to get some help (with some success) on www.thinkpads.com. My
    > threads on this subject are here
    > http://forum.thinkpads.com/search.php?mode=results
    >
    > cheers--
    >
    >
    > "JHEM" <> wrote in message
    > news:lOZCd.22287$fe5.8140@trndny06...
    >
    >>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>
    >>>All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning
    >>>it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    >>>downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.

    >>
    >>Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.
    >>
    >>Regards,
    >>
    >>James
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >

    I know how you feel! you dont like giving up on it.
    If your not too shure about doing it yourself youll need to take your
    search a bit wider. As youve a Radio shack near you? youll need to
    investigate through their shop staff wether there any laptop enthusiasts
    near you, of some one thats a serious computer hobbyist or club/group
    that would help you through the process of troubleshooting your problem.
    Of course you could always ship it to JEM or B. Markowitz both reliable
    Thinkpad technicians, but their expertise isnt cheap.

    Do some more chasing first before getting out your tools.
    As for the cmos batt, youll need a small sharp knife to open the
    shrinkwrap and the bigger problem will be reattaching the 2 wires the
    right way and to the nickel plated surface of the penny batt. To re
    solder this youll need a reactive flux, a normal electronic one will not
    do.Youll need to be very quick otherwise youll overheat the batt.
    thats wy there resistance welded .
    Again more complications for you im afraid.
    Like anything else, if youve the right tools and expertise its an easy job.
    Let us all know how you progress.
     
    Ted Frater, Jan 6, 2005
    #7
  8. Mr. Bart

    Mr. Bart Guest

    replaced the battery by carefully slicing the yellow plastic battery
    shrink-wrap and prying off the two leads, then (temporarily) taping the
    leads onto a new battery and replacing the carefully sliced shrink-wrap.

    the computer booted fine, had to resent time and date, and that was fine.
    then computer ran for about 10-12 minutes, then blacked out as before.

    this is pretty much the same thing that happened when I tried to run the
    computer yesterday after letting it sit 24 hrs.

    not too encouraging. it does sound like a heat-activated deal, I guess.




    "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    news:Tu6Dd.9$...
    > Mr. Bart wrote:
    > > hey james--
    > >
    > > have done this and have the same result. sorry, i should have specified
    > > previously. today i bought the CR2032 battery at Radio Shack, but of

    course
    > > IBM A21m has that special housing (shrink wrap etc) that somebody on
    > > thinkpads.com says he sliced open to replace the cmos battery.
    > >
    > > i may try that tonight. ted frater's process sounds daunting to me.

    i'm
    > > not sure i'm up to that much careful work.
    > >
    > > been trying to get some help (with some success) on www.thinkpads.com.

    My
    > > threads on this subject are here
    > > http://forum.thinkpads.com/search.php?mode=results
    > >
    > > cheers--
    > >
    > >
    > > "JHEM" <> wrote in message
    > > news:lOZCd.22287$fe5.8140@trndny06...
    > >
    > >>Mr. Bart wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning
    > >>>it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    > >>>downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.
    > >>
    > >>Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.
    > >>
    > >>Regards,
    > >>
    > >>James
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > >

    > I know how you feel! you dont like giving up on it.
    > If your not too shure about doing it yourself youll need to take your
    > search a bit wider. As youve a Radio shack near you? youll need to
    > investigate through their shop staff wether there any laptop enthusiasts
    > near you, of some one thats a serious computer hobbyist or club/group
    > that would help you through the process of troubleshooting your problem.
    > Of course you could always ship it to JEM or B. Markowitz both reliable
    > Thinkpad technicians, but their expertise isnt cheap.
    >
    > Do some more chasing first before getting out your tools.
    > As for the cmos batt, youll need a small sharp knife to open the
    > shrinkwrap and the bigger problem will be reattaching the 2 wires the
    > right way and to the nickel plated surface of the penny batt. To re
    > solder this youll need a reactive flux, a normal electronic one will not
    > do.Youll need to be very quick otherwise youll overheat the batt.
    > thats wy there resistance welded .
    > Again more complications for you im afraid.
    > Like anything else, if youve the right tools and expertise its an easy

    job.
    > Let us all know how you progress.
    >
     
    Mr. Bart, Jan 6, 2005
    #8
  9. Mr. Bart

    Ted Frater Guest

    Mr. Bart wrote:
    > replaced the battery by carefully slicing the yellow plastic battery
    > shrink-wrap and prying off the two leads, then (temporarily) taping the
    > leads onto a new battery and replacing the carefully sliced shrink-wrap.
    >
    > the computer booted fine, had to resent time and date, and that was fine.
    > then computer ran for about 10-12 minutes, then blacked out as before.
    >
    > this is pretty much the same thing that happened when I tried to run the
    > computer yesterday after letting it sit 24 hrs.
    >
    > not too encouraging. it does sound like a heat-activated deal, I guess.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    > news:Tu6Dd.9$...
    >
    >>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>
    >>>hey james--
    >>>
    >>>have done this and have the same result. sorry, i should have specified
    >>>previously. today i bought the CR2032 battery at Radio Shack, but of

    >
    > course
    >
    >>>IBM A21m has that special housing (shrink wrap etc) that somebody on
    >>>thinkpads.com says he sliced open to replace the cmos battery.
    >>>
    >>>i may try that tonight. ted frater's process sounds daunting to me.

    >
    > i'm
    >
    >>>not sure i'm up to that much careful work.
    >>>
    >>>been trying to get some help (with some success) on www.thinkpads.com.

    >
    > My
    >
    >>>threads on this subject are here
    >>>http://forum.thinkpads.com/search.php?mode=results
    >>>
    >>>cheers--
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>"JHEM" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:lOZCd.22287$fe5.8140@trndny06...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning
    >>>>>it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    >>>>>downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.
    >>>>
    >>>>Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.
    >>>>
    >>>>Regards,
    >>>>
    >>>>James
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>I know how you feel! you dont like giving up on it.
    >> If your not too shure about doing it yourself youll need to take your
    >>search a bit wider. As youve a Radio shack near you? youll need to
    >>investigate through their shop staff wether there any laptop enthusiasts
    >>near you, of some one thats a serious computer hobbyist or club/group
    >>that would help you through the process of troubleshooting your problem.
    >>Of course you could always ship it to JEM or B. Markowitz both reliable
    >>Thinkpad technicians, but their expertise isnt cheap.
    >>
    >>Do some more chasing first before getting out your tools.
    >> As for the cmos batt, youll need a small sharp knife to open the
    >>shrinkwrap and the bigger problem will be reattaching the 2 wires the
    >>right way and to the nickel plated surface of the penny batt. To re
    >>solder this youll need a reactive flux, a normal electronic one will not
    >>do.Youll need to be very quick otherwise youll overheat the batt.
    >> thats wy there resistance welded .
    >>Again more complications for you im afraid.
    >>Like anything else, if youve the right tools and expertise its an easy

    >
    > job.
    >
    >> Let us all know how you progress.
    >>

    >
    >
    >

    Ok, youve made some progress.
    Let it stand for 24hrs with the psu plugged in , ie your attempting to
    charge up the battery.
    In 24 hrs unplug the psu and see if it booots of the battery. this is
    to check if the psu is doing its job and charging the battery when the
    Thinkpad is switched off.
    this will tell you if the psu the charging circuit and battery are in
    good shape.
    in the meean time some more info for you.
    If as I surmise it might be a thermally related fault, these as I
    mentioned are either in the connectors or where a solder joint between a
    track and a component thats heating up in use,( could be the main
    processor.) thats on one of the printed circuit boards.
    these can sometimes be seen if you look at every joint on the main
    board. Also it could be one of the daughter boards.
    Im sure youll get there eventually, itl just take time.
    If it was on an IBM corporate leasing It would be swapped out same
    day with the hard drives changed over and the faulty unit sent to one of
    IBM's leasing repairers. Weve one here that I use for my unsolvable
    problem Thinkpads. Ive only had 1 in the past 12 months.
     
    Ted Frater, Jan 6, 2005
    #9
  10. Mr. Bart

    Mr. Bart Guest

    "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    news:r5gDd.69$...
    > Mr. Bart wrote:
    > > replaced the battery by carefully slicing the yellow plastic battery
    > > shrink-wrap and prying off the two leads, then (temporarily) taping the
    > > leads onto a new battery and replacing the carefully sliced shrink-wrap.
    > >
    > > the computer booted fine, had to resent time and date, and that was

    fine.
    > > then computer ran for about 10-12 minutes, then blacked out as before.
    > >
    > > this is pretty much the same thing that happened when I tried to run the
    > > computer yesterday after letting it sit 24 hrs.
    > >
    > > not too encouraging. it does sound like a heat-activated deal, I guess.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    > > news:Tu6Dd.9$...
    > >
    > >>Mr. Bart wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>hey james--
    > >>>
    > >>>have done this and have the same result. sorry, i should have specified
    > >>>previously. today i bought the CR2032 battery at Radio Shack, but of

    > >
    > > course
    > >
    > >>>IBM A21m has that special housing (shrink wrap etc) that somebody on
    > >>>thinkpads.com says he sliced open to replace the cmos battery.
    > >>>
    > >>>i may try that tonight. ted frater's process sounds daunting to me.

    > >
    > > i'm
    > >
    > >>>not sure i'm up to that much careful work.
    > >>>
    > >>>been trying to get some help (with some success) on www.thinkpads.com.

    > >
    > > My
    > >
    > >>>threads on this subject are here
    > >>>http://forum.thinkpads.com/search.php?mode=results
    > >>>
    > >>>cheers--
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>"JHEM" <> wrote in message
    > >>>news:lOZCd.22287$fe5.8140@trndny06...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning
    > >>>>>it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    > >>>>>downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Regards,
    > >>>>
    > >>>>James
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>I know how you feel! you dont like giving up on it.
    > >> If your not too shure about doing it yourself youll need to take your
    > >>search a bit wider. As youve a Radio shack near you? youll need to
    > >>investigate through their shop staff wether there any laptop enthusiasts
    > >>near you, of some one thats a serious computer hobbyist or club/group
    > >>that would help you through the process of troubleshooting your problem.
    > >>Of course you could always ship it to JEM or B. Markowitz both reliable
    > >>Thinkpad technicians, but their expertise isnt cheap.
    > >>
    > >>Do some more chasing first before getting out your tools.
    > >> As for the cmos batt, youll need a small sharp knife to open the
    > >>shrinkwrap and the bigger problem will be reattaching the 2 wires the
    > >>right way and to the nickel plated surface of the penny batt. To re
    > >>solder this youll need a reactive flux, a normal electronic one will not
    > >>do.Youll need to be very quick otherwise youll overheat the batt.
    > >> thats wy there resistance welded .
    > >>Again more complications for you im afraid.
    > >>Like anything else, if youve the right tools and expertise its an easy

    > >
    > > job.
    > >
    > >> Let us all know how you progress.
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > >

    > Ok, youve made some progress.
    > Let it stand for 24hrs with the psu plugged in , ie your attempting to
    > charge up the battery.
    > In 24 hrs unplug the psu and see if it booots of the battery. this is
    > to check if the psu is doing its job and charging the battery when the
    > Thinkpad is switched off.
    > this will tell you if the psu the charging circuit and battery are in
    > good shape.
    > in the meean time some more info for you.
    > If as I surmise it might be a thermally related fault, these as I
    > mentioned are either in the connectors or where a solder joint between a
    > track and a component thats heating up in use,( could be the main
    > processor.) thats on one of the printed circuit boards.
    > these can sometimes be seen if you look at every joint on the main
    > board. Also it could be one of the daughter boards.
    > Im sure youll get there eventually, itl just take time.
    > If it was on an IBM corporate leasing It would be swapped out same
    > day with the hard drives changed over and the faulty unit sent to one of
    > IBM's leasing repairers. Weve one here that I use for my unsolvable
    > problem Thinkpads. Ive only had 1 in the past 12 months.


    Done that. Same results. Boots, runs a few minutes, dies. I have not
    tried to reseat the CPU, though I have looked in the service manual and it
    seems all that is required is pulling the keyboard? The difficulty in have
    this fixed is that it'll cost as much to have it fixed as it would to buy a
    used one off eBay. I have been wondering if I can sell it "AS IS" on eBay
    and expect to get a couple hundred dollars? THat is, with the CPU, CD-ROM,
    hard drive, etc. in place. A "for parts" sale.

    I bought a pretty nice T23 off eBay last week, so I have that as well as my
    main machine fo the moment, so I really don't need this one (the A21m) any
    longer. I was hoping to get it running and then eBay it.
     
    Mr. Bart, Jan 9, 2005
    #10
  11. Mr. Bart

    Ted Frater Guest

    Mr. Bart wrote:
    > "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    > news:r5gDd.69$...
    >
    >>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>
    >>>replaced the battery by carefully slicing the yellow plastic battery
    >>>shrink-wrap and prying off the two leads, then (temporarily) taping the
    >>>leads onto a new battery and replacing the carefully sliced shrink-wrap.
    >>>
    >>>the computer booted fine, had to resent time and date, and that was

    >
    > fine.
    >
    >>>then computer ran for about 10-12 minutes, then blacked out as before.
    >>>
    >>>this is pretty much the same thing that happened when I tried to run the
    >>>computer yesterday after letting it sit 24 hrs.
    >>>
    >>>not too encouraging. it does sound like a heat-activated deal, I guess.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>"Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:Tu6Dd.9$...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>hey james--
    >>>>>
    >>>>>have done this and have the same result. sorry, i should have specified
    >>>>>previously. today i bought the CR2032 battery at Radio Shack, but of
    >>>
    >>>course
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>IBM A21m has that special housing (shrink wrap etc) that somebody on
    >>>>>thinkpads.com says he sliced open to replace the cmos battery.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>i may try that tonight. ted frater's process sounds daunting to me.
    >>>
    >>>i'm
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>not sure i'm up to that much careful work.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>been trying to get some help (with some success) on www.thinkpads.com.
    >>>
    >>>My
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>threads on this subject are here
    >>>>>http://forum.thinkpads.com/search.php?mode=results
    >>>>>
    >>>>>cheers--
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>"JHEM" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:lOZCd.22287$fe5.8140@trndny06...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine," meaning
    >>>>>>>it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    >>>>>>>downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Regards,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>James
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>I know how you feel! you dont like giving up on it.
    >>>> If your not too shure about doing it yourself youll need to take your
    >>>>search a bit wider. As youve a Radio shack near you? youll need to
    >>>>investigate through their shop staff wether there any laptop enthusiasts
    >>>>near you, of some one thats a serious computer hobbyist or club/group
    >>>>that would help you through the process of troubleshooting your problem.
    >>>>Of course you could always ship it to JEM or B. Markowitz both reliable
    >>>>Thinkpad technicians, but their expertise isnt cheap.
    >>>>
    >>>>Do some more chasing first before getting out your tools.
    >>>> As for the cmos batt, youll need a small sharp knife to open the
    >>>>shrinkwrap and the bigger problem will be reattaching the 2 wires the
    >>>>right way and to the nickel plated surface of the penny batt. To re
    >>>>solder this youll need a reactive flux, a normal electronic one will not
    >>>>do.Youll need to be very quick otherwise youll overheat the batt.
    >>>> thats wy there resistance welded .
    >>>>Again more complications for you im afraid.
    >>>>Like anything else, if youve the right tools and expertise its an easy
    >>>
    >>>job.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Let us all know how you progress.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>Ok, youve made some progress.
    >> Let it stand for 24hrs with the psu plugged in , ie your attempting to
    >>charge up the battery.
    >> In 24 hrs unplug the psu and see if it booots of the battery. this is
    >>to check if the psu is doing its job and charging the battery when the
    >>Thinkpad is switched off.
    >> this will tell you if the psu the charging circuit and battery are in
    >>good shape.
    >> in the meean time some more info for you.
    >> If as I surmise it might be a thermally related fault, these as I
    >>mentioned are either in the connectors or where a solder joint between a
    >>track and a component thats heating up in use,( could be the main
    >>processor.) thats on one of the printed circuit boards.
    >> these can sometimes be seen if you look at every joint on the main
    >>board. Also it could be one of the daughter boards.
    >> Im sure youll get there eventually, itl just take time.
    >> If it was on an IBM corporate leasing It would be swapped out same
    >>day with the hard drives changed over and the faulty unit sent to one of
    >>IBM's leasing repairers. Weve one here that I use for my unsolvable
    >>problem Thinkpads. Ive only had 1 in the past 12 months.

    >
    >
    > Done that. Same results. Boots, runs a few minutes, dies. I have not
    > tried to reseat the CPU, though I have looked in the service manual and it
    > seems all that is required is pulling the keyboard? The difficulty in have
    > this fixed is that it'll cost as much to have it fixed as it would to buy a
    > used one off eBay. I have been wondering if I can sell it "AS IS" on eBay
    > and expect to get a couple hundred dollars? THat is, with the CPU, CD-ROM,
    > hard drive, etc. in place. A "for parts" sale.
    >
    > I bought a pretty nice T23 off eBay last week, so I have that as well as my
    > main machine fo the moment, so I really don't need this one (the A21m) any
    > longer. I was hoping to get it running and then eBay it.
    >
    >
    >

    Well what youve just written puts a different compexion on it.
    Now if it were me, with a nice T23, ( your best buy S/H,incidently) Id
    keep the A20m as spares for yours. IE Hard drive, cd rom drive, memory
    maybe even the screen. As the a 21m has I believe a 14in 1024 by 768
    res. Might be the same as your new one.
    With the bits you want to keep put by, and all thats left. Ie all the
    plastic bits etc.
    theres always someone thats dropped theirs broken all the plastic bits
    but the rest works. Whod pay you 200 dollars just to fix theirs.
    Weve a laptop dealer friend who only buys fully working Thinkpads, and
    more than doubles his money by just breaking them for spares.
    As a final thought, do try to reseat the cpu. It might just be that!!
    then youd have 2 Thinkpads, maybe give it to a family member.
     
    Ted Frater, Jan 9, 2005
    #11
  12. Mr. Bart

    Mr. Bart Guest

    no, the a21 has a bigger screen, the HD is old and not too fast and i've
    ordered a couple of hitachi 7200s, i already pulled the CD-RW, so there's
    not much left. If I could make the dag-blasted thing work i could eBay it
    for a couple hundred--before last week or two it was a splendid
    email/websurf machine, very dependable.

    i'm trying to figure out how to get the question of this particular ailment
    before some real IBM techs to see if it is a known problem to them. if it
    is, it seems likely that they would have a fix, or know that it was
    unfixable short of replacing motherboard.

    wonder wha tthe MBs cost on eBay?


    "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    news:TG5Ed.13$...
    > Mr. Bart wrote:
    > > "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    > > news:r5gDd.69$...
    > >
    > >>Mr. Bart wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>replaced the battery by carefully slicing the yellow plastic battery
    > >>>shrink-wrap and prying off the two leads, then (temporarily) taping the
    > >>>leads onto a new battery and replacing the carefully sliced

    shrink-wrap.
    > >>>
    > >>>the computer booted fine, had to resent time and date, and that was

    > >
    > > fine.
    > >
    > >>>then computer ran for about 10-12 minutes, then blacked out as before.
    > >>>
    > >>>this is pretty much the same thing that happened when I tried to run

    the
    > >>>computer yesterday after letting it sit 24 hrs.
    > >>>
    > >>>not too encouraging. it does sound like a heat-activated deal, I guess.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>"Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    > >>>news:Tu6Dd.9$...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>hey james--
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>have done this and have the same result. sorry, i should have

    specified
    > >>>>>previously. today i bought the CR2032 battery at Radio Shack, but of
    > >>>
    > >>>course
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>>IBM A21m has that special housing (shrink wrap etc) that somebody on
    > >>>>>thinkpads.com says he sliced open to replace the cmos battery.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>i may try that tonight. ted frater's process sounds daunting to me.
    > >>>
    > >>>i'm
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>>not sure i'm up to that much careful work.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>been trying to get some help (with some success) on

    www.thinkpads.com.
    > >>>
    > >>>My
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>>threads on this subject are here
    > >>>>>http://forum.thinkpads.com/search.php?mode=results
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>cheers--
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>"JHEM" <> wrote in message
    > >>>>>news:lOZCd.22287$fe5.8140@trndny06...
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine,"

    meaning
    > >>>>>>>it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    > >>>>>>>downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>Regards,
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>James
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>I know how you feel! you dont like giving up on it.
    > >>>> If your not too shure about doing it yourself youll need to take your
    > >>>>search a bit wider. As youve a Radio shack near you? youll need to
    > >>>>investigate through their shop staff wether there any laptop

    enthusiasts
    > >>>>near you, of some one thats a serious computer hobbyist or club/group
    > >>>>that would help you through the process of troubleshooting your

    problem.
    > >>>>Of course you could always ship it to JEM or B. Markowitz both

    reliable
    > >>>>Thinkpad technicians, but their expertise isnt cheap.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Do some more chasing first before getting out your tools.
    > >>>> As for the cmos batt, youll need a small sharp knife to open the
    > >>>>shrinkwrap and the bigger problem will be reattaching the 2 wires the
    > >>>>right way and to the nickel plated surface of the penny batt. To re
    > >>>>solder this youll need a reactive flux, a normal electronic one will

    not
    > >>>>do.Youll need to be very quick otherwise youll overheat the batt.
    > >>>> thats wy there resistance welded .
    > >>>>Again more complications for you im afraid.
    > >>>>Like anything else, if youve the right tools and expertise its an easy
    > >>>
    > >>>job.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>> Let us all know how you progress.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>Ok, youve made some progress.
    > >> Let it stand for 24hrs with the psu plugged in , ie your attempting to
    > >>charge up the battery.
    > >> In 24 hrs unplug the psu and see if it booots of the battery. this is
    > >>to check if the psu is doing its job and charging the battery when the
    > >>Thinkpad is switched off.
    > >> this will tell you if the psu the charging circuit and battery are in
    > >>good shape.
    > >> in the meean time some more info for you.
    > >> If as I surmise it might be a thermally related fault, these as I
    > >>mentioned are either in the connectors or where a solder joint between a
    > >>track and a component thats heating up in use,( could be the main
    > >>processor.) thats on one of the printed circuit boards.
    > >> these can sometimes be seen if you look at every joint on the main
    > >>board. Also it could be one of the daughter boards.
    > >> Im sure youll get there eventually, itl just take time.
    > >> If it was on an IBM corporate leasing It would be swapped out same
    > >>day with the hard drives changed over and the faulty unit sent to one of
    > >>IBM's leasing repairers. Weve one here that I use for my unsolvable
    > >>problem Thinkpads. Ive only had 1 in the past 12 months.

    > >
    > >
    > > Done that. Same results. Boots, runs a few minutes, dies. I have not
    > > tried to reseat the CPU, though I have looked in the service manual and

    it
    > > seems all that is required is pulling the keyboard? The difficulty in

    have
    > > this fixed is that it'll cost as much to have it fixed as it would to

    buy a
    > > used one off eBay. I have been wondering if I can sell it "AS IS" on

    eBay
    > > and expect to get a couple hundred dollars? THat is, with the CPU,

    CD-ROM,
    > > hard drive, etc. in place. A "for parts" sale.
    > >
    > > I bought a pretty nice T23 off eBay last week, so I have that as well as

    my
    > > main machine fo the moment, so I really don't need this one (the A21m)

    any
    > > longer. I was hoping to get it running and then eBay it.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    > Well what youve just written puts a different compexion on it.
    > Now if it were me, with a nice T23, ( your best buy S/H,incidently) Id
    > keep the A20m as spares for yours. IE Hard drive, cd rom drive, memory
    > maybe even the screen. As the a 21m has I believe a 14in 1024 by 768
    > res. Might be the same as your new one.
    > With the bits you want to keep put by, and all thats left. Ie all the
    > plastic bits etc.
    > theres always someone thats dropped theirs broken all the plastic bits
    > but the rest works. Whod pay you 200 dollars just to fix theirs.
    > Weve a laptop dealer friend who only buys fully working Thinkpads, and
    > more than doubles his money by just breaking them for spares.
    > As a final thought, do try to reseat the cpu. It might just be that!!
    > then youd have 2 Thinkpads, maybe give it to a family member.
     
    Mr. Bart, Jan 12, 2005
    #12
  13. Mr. Bart

    Ted Frater Guest

    Mr. Bart wrote:
    > no, the a21 has a bigger screen, the HD is old and not too fast and i've
    > ordered a couple of hitachi 7200s, i already pulled the CD-RW, so there's
    > not much left. If I could make the dag-blasted thing work i could eBay it
    > for a couple hundred--before last week or two it was a splendid
    > email/websurf machine, very dependable.
    >
    > i'm trying to figure out how to get the question of this particular ailment
    > before some real IBM techs to see if it is a known problem to them. if it
    > is, it seems likely that they would have a fix, or know that it was
    > unfixable short of replacing motherboard.
    >
    > wonder wha tthe MBs cost on eBay?
    >
    >
    > "Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    > news:TG5Ed.13$...
    >
    >>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:r5gDd.69$...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>replaced the battery by carefully slicing the yellow plastic battery
    >>>>>shrink-wrap and prying off the two leads, then (temporarily) taping the
    >>>>>leads onto a new battery and replacing the carefully sliced

    >
    > shrink-wrap.
    >
    >>>>>the computer booted fine, had to resent time and date, and that was
    >>>
    >>>fine.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>then computer ran for about 10-12 minutes, then blacked out as before.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>this is pretty much the same thing that happened when I tried to run

    >
    > the
    >
    >>>>>computer yesterday after letting it sit 24 hrs.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>not too encouraging. it does sound like a heat-activated deal, I guess.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>"Ted Frater" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:Tu6Dd.9$...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>hey james--
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>have done this and have the same result. sorry, i should have

    >
    > specified
    >
    >>>>>>>previously. today i bought the CR2032 battery at Radio Shack, but of
    >>>>>
    >>>>>course
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>IBM A21m has that special housing (shrink wrap etc) that somebody on
    >>>>>>>thinkpads.com says he sliced open to replace the cmos battery.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>i may try that tonight. ted frater's process sounds daunting to me.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>i'm
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>not sure i'm up to that much careful work.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>been trying to get some help (with some success) on

    >
    > www.thinkpads.com.
    >
    >>>>>My
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>threads on this subject are here
    >>>>>>>http://forum.thinkpads.com/search.php?mode=results
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>cheers--
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>"JHEM" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>news:lOZCd.22287$fe5.8140@trndny06...
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Mr. Bart wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>All made stranger by the fact that this is a "house machine,"

    >
    > meaning
    >
    >>>>>>>>>it NEVER travels, rarely moves off its desk into someone's lap, or
    >>>>>>>>>downstairs. SO it hasn't been knocked around at all to speak off.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Pull the main battery and try running it just on AC. Report back.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>Regards,
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>James
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>I know how you feel! you dont like giving up on it.
    >>>>>>If your not too shure about doing it yourself youll need to take your
    >>>>>>search a bit wider. As youve a Radio shack near you? youll need to
    >>>>>>investigate through their shop staff wether there any laptop

    >
    > enthusiasts
    >
    >>>>>>near you, of some one thats a serious computer hobbyist or club/group
    >>>>>>that would help you through the process of troubleshooting your

    >
    > problem.
    >
    >>>>>>Of course you could always ship it to JEM or B. Markowitz both

    >
    > reliable
    >
    >>>>>>Thinkpad technicians, but their expertise isnt cheap.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Do some more chasing first before getting out your tools.
    >>>>>>As for the cmos batt, youll need a small sharp knife to open the
    >>>>>>shrinkwrap and the bigger problem will be reattaching the 2 wires the
    >>>>>>right way and to the nickel plated surface of the penny batt. To re
    >>>>>>solder this youll need a reactive flux, a normal electronic one will

    >
    > not
    >
    >>>>>>do.Youll need to be very quick otherwise youll overheat the batt.
    >>>>>>thats wy there resistance welded .
    >>>>>>Again more complications for you im afraid.
    >>>>>>Like anything else, if youve the right tools and expertise its an easy
    >>>>>
    >>>>>job.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Let us all know how you progress.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>Ok, youve made some progress.
    >>>> Let it stand for 24hrs with the psu plugged in , ie your attempting to
    >>>>charge up the battery.
    >>>> In 24 hrs unplug the psu and see if it booots of the battery. this is
    >>>>to check if the psu is doing its job and charging the battery when the
    >>>>Thinkpad is switched off.
    >>>> this will tell you if the psu the charging circuit and battery are in
    >>>>good shape.
    >>>> in the meean time some more info for you.
    >>>> If as I surmise it might be a thermally related fault, these as I
    >>>>mentioned are either in the connectors or where a solder joint between a
    >>>>track and a component thats heating up in use,( could be the main
    >>>>processor.) thats on one of the printed circuit boards.
    >>>> these can sometimes be seen if you look at every joint on the main
    >>>>board. Also it could be one of the daughter boards.
    >>>> Im sure youll get there eventually, itl just take time.
    >>>> If it was on an IBM corporate leasing It would be swapped out same
    >>>>day with the hard drives changed over and the faulty unit sent to one of
    >>>>IBM's leasing repairers. Weve one here that I use for my unsolvable
    >>>>problem Thinkpads. Ive only had 1 in the past 12 months.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Done that. Same results. Boots, runs a few minutes, dies. I have not
    >>>tried to reseat the CPU, though I have looked in the service manual and

    >
    > it
    >
    >>>seems all that is required is pulling the keyboard? The difficulty in

    >
    > have
    >
    >>>this fixed is that it'll cost as much to have it fixed as it would to

    >
    > buy a
    >
    >>>used one off eBay. I have been wondering if I can sell it "AS IS" on

    >
    > eBay
    >
    >>>and expect to get a couple hundred dollars? THat is, with the CPU,

    >
    > CD-ROM,
    >
    >>>hard drive, etc. in place. A "for parts" sale.
    >>>
    >>>I bought a pretty nice T23 off eBay last week, so I have that as well as

    >
    > my
    >
    >>>main machine fo the moment, so I really don't need this one (the A21m)

    >
    > any
    >
    >>>longer. I was hoping to get it running and then eBay it.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Well what youve just written puts a different compexion on it.
    >> Now if it were me, with a nice T23, ( your best buy S/H,incidently) Id
    >>keep the A20m as spares for yours. IE Hard drive, cd rom drive, memory
    >>maybe even the screen. As the a 21m has I believe a 14in 1024 by 768
    >>res. Might be the same as your new one.
    >>With the bits you want to keep put by, and all thats left. Ie all the
    >>plastic bits etc.
    >>theres always someone thats dropped theirs broken all the plastic bits
    >>but the rest works. Whod pay you 200 dollars just to fix theirs.
    >>Weve a laptop dealer friend who only buys fully working Thinkpads, and
    >>more than doubles his money by just breaking them for spares.
    >>As a final thought, do try to reseat the cpu. It might just be that!!
    >> then youd have 2 Thinkpads, maybe give it to a family member.

    >
    >
    >

    Before you seriously think about another m/board do try to reseat the
    processor.
    Ive now an a21m here and ill have look to see how long it will take me
    to do just that. ill get back to you on this asap.
    Ted.
     
    Ted Frater, Jan 14, 2005
    #13
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